Magazine Luiza SA

BOVESPA:MGLU3

Earnings Call Transcript

[Operator]

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for waiting. Welcome to Magalu's conference call regarding its quarterly results. [Operator Instructions] We inform that this event is being recorded and will be available on the company's IR website at ri.magazineluiza.com.br where you can find the earnings release and the presentation in both Portuguese and English. The link to the presentation in English is also available in the chat. [Operator Instructions]

Now, I would like to turn the floor over to Frederico Trajano, CEO of the company. Please, Mr. Trajano.

[Frederico Rodrigues, executive]

Good morning to all. Thank you for joining us in this conference call to discuss third quarter 2023 earnings. I'm here with the whole top management of the company. We will be available to answer your questions at the end of the presentation. Roberto Bellissimo and myself will present the company's results, and then we'll be here for the Q&A.

While this quarter, I believe, perfectly reflects a very clear direction that we gave to the Magalu teams over the year, from the strategic standpoint, we needed to grow the marketplace with a respective increase in profitability. And from the technical standpoint, particularly for the 1 BT, stores and online, 100% focus on increasing the gross margin to offset increases of the poutaxes that we observed this year, if possibly increasing market share, but not necessarily. And when we look at the numbers of this quarter, we see that we delivered exactly that. It consolidates in numbers. This direction was conveyed to the teams along the year. We had a historical gross margin of 30.4%, historical high, the highest in the last 6 years. And we were able to grow GMV 5%. In a market context, where a part of our results and the volume, which is the part of durable goods remains challenging.

So I consider that achieving this gross margin and still post a 5% GMV growth means that the work was very well done by the teams. When we break down the 5% looking at the different channels, we see that in physical stores, we grew 2% in the quarter. For physical stores, the scenario started more challenging in the quarter in July and August, and it ended really well in September. We have observed now in October, and particularly in November, very positive physical store sales. So we have 15 days of November. In the last Saturday, we have the best sale for a Saturday in the year with the exception of the fantastic sale that we normally hold in the beginning of January. So we see that the physical stores are picking up again. Of course, we have a comparison base of the World Cup last year, which makes comparison a little harder. But in absolute terms, we are achieving record marks. Last Monday was also great, yesterday. And we're very excited with what we observed in both October and in the beginning of November.

From the online standpoint, we have two different stores. The 1B story is, like I said, the tactical point was passing on -- passing through defaults. We did that in Magalu in a good part of the companies of the group in this quarter. We had less pressure on the teams in terms of market share gain so that we could achieve the ideal margin profitability. So that from now on, we can grow. So still with a focus on consolidating this in the fourth quarter, but looking at the horizon, we believe that this will continue to grow. Magalu is also concentrated in durable goods.

So we have a diversification in the long tail of 3P. I'll speak more about that. As durable goods returns with a declining interest rate, this sector is highly cyclical, highly cyclical category. So 1P and stores will be definitely failing this and we'll have a tailwind pushing us forward in November, the perspective of 1P is looking better. But still with the perspective of consolidating our gross margin that we achieved in Q3 and having a whole pass-through of default. From the strategic standpoint, speak about 3P and I'll spend more time speaking about this channel, which was the big highlight of the quarter.

We grew 25% in Q3, accelerating growth. And if we look at average annual growth for the last 4 years, full year average annual growth of 51%, so solid. But more important than the 25% growth, off-marketplace sales, GMV and 3P is increase in marketplace take rate. We grew 44% and marketplace derived revenues. And Roberto will explain this better. A good part of this growth of gross margin came from 3P and from increased revenues that have been included in our results. We are seeing in this along the quarters. But in Q3, there was a big highlight for GMV and revenue increase. In 3P, to date, the more it grows, the more share gets in the company, the higher our profitability in our operating margin.

Next, 3P in the past call, we said that 3P had become the second most representative channel of the company surpassing the physical stores and have been operating for more than 65 years. Now 3P has a 30% share of 3P sales as a percentage of total sales. That's the channel we are betting on the most in terms of growth. And like I said, it's been contributing a lot to our profitability ratios. Now to explain this growth, I would like to speak about increasing the number of sellers. We achieved 323,000 sellers on the marketplace platform in Q3. So we grew quarter-on-quarter and a number of offers, 114 million offers available on our platform.

We don't speak a lot about that, but we have evolved a lot of seller platform included this in our earnings release and it's in our presentation as well. We had some very positive changes. Today, our sellers are complementing our platform a lot. Today, they can manage all their stores through the Magalu SuperApp. With the same customer app, the sellers can use to manage the store. They used to have to access a different app. Now they can access the Magalu SuperApp, make suggestions about the store, look at their reputation, post their offers. So it's a big change that makes life easier for sellers, makes the process a lot more fluid.

We also created Magalu Entregas, which is a CEO and offer program for our customers so that we can present the best offers from our sellers. So the fulfillment is in Magalu dig, the ranking of the best reputable sellers.

Everything is in Magalu Entregas as well as some on items. In the items of the company's group that sell through Magalu, KaBuM!, Netshoes, et cetera, are in Magalu Entregas. So Magalu Entregas, it's like a full of quality. It ensures that our customers will have access to the best office when you have -- 114 million offers on the platform. We have to have some kind of key readership to facilitate the search and the choice of our customers. It helps offering what's best for our customers on our platform. We also launched an alternative to drive interactivity with the customers, which is seller chat. Where sellers can interact with customers, offer coupons during this interaction. It is chat. It's not a Q&A. It's a chat, another way to interact on the platform and other platform improvements have been developed and deployed every month. Regarding 3P, I would also like to highlight that we have been growing a lot base of sellers in new categories. The diversification movement at Magalu happens, particularly through 3P. We see this in the charts presented by the company. A good part of the new sellers come in new categories.

When we look at units sold, 86% of products sold on 3P, our new categories that complement our 1P when we look at GMV and talking about 52% of the total of the group, including 1P. So more than half of our online comes from new categories and new categories will drive growth and profitability looking forward. To give you an example of these categories, I will mention some families of products, more than categories. Families of products that have grown this quarter. In running shoes, we grew 69% in thickness and bikes; 84% growth in tires; auto parts, we grew 84%. Vacuum cleaners, we grew 63%; lawn mowers 85%. You see these families of products that we are prioritizing families that we believe have a positive unit economics, tickets normally above BRL 100, BRL 200.

And we have the recognition of customers that will sell high-quality products, not cater feed products with our brand products, and we have the right conditions to sell all of these products. And we are always making improvements for these growing families of products. We want to improve navigation marketing and how we publicize these categories to our customers. I want to speak a little about logistics. Another quarter where we improved our fast delivery indicators. 80% of all marketplace offers pass through Magalu Entregas or Magalu delivery.

If we look at 3P -- actually 1P, we are a benchmark.

Delivery in up to 1 day, we increased to 81%. And from the standpoint of 3P, there was a 51% leap from 41% in the prior quarter to 51% this quarter, plus 10 percentage points in 1-day delivery and has helped -- 3P has helped conversion, and it has improved the NPS of this category. One highlight is the fulfillment. Fulfillment has evolved really well. 14% of 3P orders go through our fulfillment. 2,400 sellers are using this mode more than 8 distribution centers enabled for that, some in the Northeast where we did not have that option. I'm sure that sales will increase a lot in that region, which is already important for 1P. 70% of light products are shipped from the Louveira, DC and sellers who will join the fulfillment, have a 25% reduction of costs. Their conversion rates increased in 25%. What's interesting about our fulfillment is that this is truly a multichannel operation. Our fulfillment this is the same this year of the physical store and of 1P. And we have great benefits in multichannel in-store pickup. Our costs are lower because our operation shares to 1P infrastructure and with that, the cost is marginal.

I would also like to talk about Magalu Ads. But before we talk about Magalu Ads, let's talk about the physical stores and the important role in multichannel operations, we have this slide to show before and after physical points. Many people ask me about physical stores. It's important to understand physical stores, not only as of sales channel purely, but also with a competitive edge to our 1P and 3P operations. If we consider physical stores a couple of years ago, 100% of the orders were sold by the physical store. Today, when you consider physical store at Magalu, 70% of the orders are not sold in the physical store. Take, for instance, orders that go from a Netshoe sellers and drop the product with a drop of agency at the store or KaBuM! order that was bought on the side and it's going to be a store pickup or 3P at the store.

So it is a point of support, a local point of support to our ecosystem and a competitive edge that helps us with delivery times and level of service for sellers in other times. So it is part of a greater component of our strategic positioning and our competitive differential on a sustainable manner. Magalu Ads a couple of details on monetization. When it comes to take rate, we achieved a maximum passthrough lever for sales. Monetization should come now from other means, and they will come from, for instance, for Magalu Ads. It would tripl our revenue at Magalu once we introduce the sponsored search in the previous quarter, like I said.

And now we are also expanding Magalu Ads to all the companies in our ecosystem. This quarter, we had in -- Magalu Ads in Netshoes, the same platform for all channels of the company and also content channels. The first step to expand to all company channels. Another way to monetize involves our fintech. [indiscernible] is here, he can tell us more about it.

Despite the moment scenario increased by 20%, TPV at fintech, more than BRL10 billion. Now 58 entrepreneurs that are in the digital account, sellers who are getting their sales via digital account for Magalu Pay, an account that we created for them. [ 500 million ] TVP. And we also work on PIX operations for Magalu and other group companies via the fintech engine, more than 8 million transaction -- fixed transactions in Q3 -- also showing the importance our importance, bringing us confidence, lower costs and also show the importance of Magalu Payments for the whole ecosystem. We also launched a partnership with Bitcoin. So customers based on our wallet could also buy Bitcoin. We have a cyber crypto Friday now actually with discounts if you want to buy currency or coins.

Cryptocurrency via Magalu Ads, you have the cash back. So it's another way to drive this issue. Now before I turn it over to Beto, I would like to highlight our subsidiaries. They also were very challenged with DIFAL pass-through this year. Epoca between 8 and 10 DIFAL downwards and pass through Netshoes 7, KaBuM! [indiscernible] 5, and operations were also 5 this quarter.

Particularly when it comes to net income, think about Netshoes increasing 25% marketplace vis-a-vis last year, BRL 21 million net income leader in the category. Very positive job, better than second quarter. Epoca Cosmeticos has been through a change in the ERP, financially, commercially. The process is always very complex and very intricate. Despite of that, it managed to post net income this quarter, and Q4 is very positive as well. Very or great efforts by the team and they managed to have a successful pass-through. And KaBuM! sold BRL 1 billion amazing BRL 30 million net income despite all the DIFAL that got in. And for the first time in [indiscernible] are 8,000 and also positive results. Our subsidiaries, like I said, have met our expectations.

Finally, let's move on to the financial highlights. And very briefly, I would like to share with you the conclusion of the company deployment this year after the Board of Directors of this anonymous complaint, and this was very stringent, transparent and independent. 9 months of work led by PwC and Tozzini Freire, which is the leading lawyer firm. Analysis concluded that the anonymous complaint is unfounded. And they also found and reported failures in the accounting process of some bonuses and the performance requirements were not fully complied with, with the right competence. So these things were already corrected. The company checked, confirm, acted and let's move on. So now I turn it over to Beto, our CFO, to give you more detail on the conclusion of the process, and also the measures made by the company to mitigate the failures that were found. So we're going to dive into this, and will also be here for your questions in the Q&A section. Thank you.

[Roberto Rodrigues, executive]

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our earnings conference call. When it comes to the adjustments mentioned by Freddie, in practice, they led to some advanced bonuses. They were resubmitted. So we revised and we corrected the results for 2022 and first quarter 2023. These results are now already on the right accounting system on an accrual basis, considering all the bonuses that were posted according to the right compliance. And the values, they refer only to these postings, these entries. So they refer only to this adjustment in bonus and the net impact stemming from this adjustment is about BRL 830 million on June 30, shareholders' stake.

It's worth mentioning that there was no change in the company's cash flow, operating cash flow. And no difference in cash positions, indebtedness, no change whatsoever. The adjustment was specifically in the bonus account. On the next slide, we talk about the measures that we've been adopting in order to mitigate and try to eliminate risks.

Firstly, considering the implementation of the system, that we are deploying and already involves most of our suppliers. We have our own system that works with management of the funds. And just to give you an idea, in 2022, we issued 16,000 debit notes involving 50,000 campaigns of products over the whole year, full year. So we needed to invest in the system because this system validates each and every campaign checked and approved by suppliers and also validating the campaign performance and also checking total sales, for instance, generating the debit node electronically with the digital signature, et cetera. So the system is very robust. Allows us to improve a lot in the management process of our funds and make sure that we are posting, as we did already in Q3 with all the bonuses and funds in the right manner.

On an accrual basis. In addition to systems, we also talk about mechanisms of governance that we deployed in order to segregate different functions. And we also implemented a new process, a new policy actually of the commercial purchasing process, and we also review the risk and the routine of our negotiations. So a number of measures in order to improve governance and controls. Additionally, there is another launch, another independent action. Apart from the bonus, this quarter, we recognized tax credits related to PIS/COFINS on bonus that were received by suppliers in previous quarters up to 2022. This bonus, they were taxed -- so here, we are posting these taxes based on a recent decision by the Supreme Court of Justice with the opinion of legal advisers. So we had a positive impact of BRL 507 million in the company's net equity and also the earnings for Q3.

On the next slide, we show a little bit of the effect over time. Bonus adjustments, therefore, in total, accounted for BRL 830 million, like I said, in net equity, they lowered results prior to 2022 and results for 2022, but it's important to say that they improved recent results in the first quarter, with bonus posted over year 2022, taking into account 2021. So improving the results in the first half of the year. And when I mentioned the effect of tax credits and also the accrued basis prior to 2022, then we see an impact on net equity prior to 2022 of BRL 189 million over 2022, BRL 226 million. And in the first half, positive at BRL 93 million, totaling BRL 322 million.

This adjustment. Once again, no cash effect accounts for 1% of the company's assets and 3% of the shareholders' equity of the company. What about the highlights. Fred already mentioned a lot about our growth in sales, highlighting marketplace operations, an increase in gross margin. Just bear with me for a moment. I'm going to change my microphone.

Is it better now? Moving on to the highlights. Is it still low? Is it better now? So moving on to the highlights again. We talked about growth in marketplace and gross margin as major highlights. Adjusted EBITDA, 5.7%, also growing vis-a-vis last year. Adjusted net income was still negative and 1.7%, but it's important to highlight again that this result already reflects lower financial expenses going down and also improved compared to previous quarter and better than last year and even better than the first half of the year.

Total net income was positive at BRL 331 million, and this includes tax credits. And we also highlight that this quarter, we greatly reduced our nonrecurring expenses. You may recall that in the first half of the year, we had nonrecurring expenses over BRL 100 million by quarter. And this quarter, it was approximately BRL 40 million only. So the total result is also a lot better than in previous quarters. On the next slide, we give you a breakdown of the EBITDA margin, increasing 5.6% to 5.7% and also the very important effect of the increased gross margin. Merchandise margin increased by 1%, like Fred mentioned, we ended the DIFAL pass-through and the merchandise margin better reflects the balance, particularly in EPE between sales and margins. In addition to the merchandise margin, all the growth in revenue growth or service revenue, which exceeded this quarter BRL 1 billion.

Total revenue increased by 35%, service at marketplace 44%, and the service revenue drove our EBITDA or gross margin in 1.9 percentage points.

That's a trend that we've been mentioning in the previous quarters that marketplace is expected to increase our level of gross margin because it is the fastest-growing channel in the company, and also the potential to continue with this gross margin in the future as well. If we consider expenses this quarter, we didn't have a significant drop, partly owing to the dynamics in marketplace. It tends to increase gross margin but put pressure on expenses over net revenue.

It's important also to consider and GMV and GMV Marketplace tends to dilute expenses for the future. So this quarter, we had the impact of very growth rates in marketplace and also a little bit more investment in marketing, also combined to marketplace, which increased a lot. Over the coming quarters, the trend -- well, the impact of marketplace on gross margin is expected to be greater than the impact on expenses vis-a-vis net revenue.

In October, for instance, we saw this trend, and we have this advisory that October had an EBITDA margin level higher between 6% and 7%. So that's an important trend driven by marketplace again. On the next slide, we show that our working capital keeps on improving vis-a-vis last year, we reduced more than BRL 500 million in our inventories. And on the right-hand side, we highlight an important reduction in financial expenses. The first quarter used to be higher and then there was a downward trend. This quarter, it went down BRL 100 million vis-a-vis last year and 7% drop to 6% and 5% and now it tends to go down in Q4 and also in the future.

So this reduction is a result of working capital and also an increase in fixed transactions and also a reduction with expenses with advanced receivables. On the next slide, we showed total cash flow for the quarter, another quarter of operating cash generation, very significant of BRL 300 million. Pay in investments and expenses would leave in an interest. So this quarter, we maintained our total cash position of BRL 8.1 billion. We also highlight an increase in the share in cash and investments, increasing BRL 2.5 billion to BRL 3.3 billion. And also the fact that we concluded Luizaseg sale the current quarter and we had the remaining share according to Cardif of another BRL 60 million.

On the next slide, we show -- we continue to be a net cash company. We can see our gross debt. We have our cash and investments comparing to short-term debt of BRL 3 billion. So we have more cash invested than short-term debt. And total cash considering receivables, practically 3x the short-term debt and the long-term debt is well distributed towards the end of 2025, 2026.

Lastly, speaking a little about Luizacred. We had another quarter of growth or with a 6% growth in credit card TPV reaching more than BRL 14 billion, 6.8 million active credit cards growing both inside and outside Magalu. And here on the next slide, we highlight -- in the last 2 slides, we highlight the performance of portfolio overdue, which has been very positive. In June, we said that we had reached an inflection point in our indicators of overdue payments. And we had a relevant reduction in both short and long NPL. With a positive reflection on Luizacred, which practically broke even in this quarter with a trend of increasing income in the short term already in the next quarters.

And lastly, we show default rates for CDC and Luizacred dropping a lot, being reduced with the improvement of the quality indicators of the portfolio. These were the highlights and now. We would like to start the Q&A session. Thank you very much.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] First question from UBS, Vinicius.

Let's move to the next question. Next question from [indiscernible] with Itau BBA.

[Unknown Analyst]

I'd like to speak a little about the outlook for Q4. I'd like to interview inventors to face end of year events, you mentioned that sales were strong in October, [Technical Difficulty]

[Unknown Executive]

[Audio Gap] said, and we expected the year really well. I'd like to remember that our focus continues to be the consolidation in Q3 in the case of 1P, we see a very favorable situation here. We ended the quarter with a very positive inventory level already anticipating problems that we knew were coming. Given this route in the Amazon River that has made logistics suppliers more difficult. We worked with an inventory and ended the quarter with a slightly higher inventory than initially planned because the suppliers wonders that we needed to have a buffer. So our inventories are normalized and positive. We started October and November really well.

I'll give you some idea as to insight of the first 15 days of November. So we're excited. We are positive. And I have to remind you, we remain super focused on working with high gross margins. And last year, we had the World Cup effect which from the specific point of the category of TVs makes the comparison overall harder.

[Roberto Rodrigues, executive]

As Fred mentioned, we are well prepared. We made an adjustment in our inventories in the beginning of last 2 years, the quality of our inventory is really good. As Fred mentioned, we brought forward some payments of TV sets and air conditioners given to the drought in Amazon as well, which is the worst amount in [indiscernible] October sales show [indiscernible] November, shows that we are very well prepared. We are confident in a good Black Friday and a great holiday season sales, inventory has high quality and high availability, which is very important for our business.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Vinicius Strano with UBS.

[Vinicius Strano, analyst]

Could you elaborate on what would be the current profitability level of 1P categories, both in physical stores and on e-commerce and how this has been evolving? And how are you thinking about investments to grow in 3P business? The same question, how to do with the term of suppliers in prior quarters top of this slide [indiscernible] what do you think would be the turn in terms of suppliers looking forward?

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you for the question. I'll speak about IP and [indiscernible] regarding the inflation. Like I said, for our 1P, the focus for the year has been to pass through the taxes, particularly [indiscernible] also touches the fiscal, but it's not just exclusively online. It was also an impact on the margins of physical stores. So we have all that pass-through. This quarter consolidated the pass-through [indiscernible] year in terms of profitability of 1P operation and physical Brick and Mortar stores.

[indiscernible] gross margin than growth. And now that there's a lot of stable like it's easier for us to go back to work and to grow and gain operating leverage on the best quarter here. In the top, the upgrading was even better than in the first half of the year, and we think they will continue to see those [indiscernible] we decide to pass through this point of [indiscernible] you have to make it.

And our decision was to first pass through a price increase and then go back to growing. This is something we're going to start looking at from now on. Now that we have a consolidated margin, we believe that we have room to gain market share, particularly in stores, but not exclusively. In 1P as well, we have room to gain market share, but always preserving this level of gross margin that we achieved in this Q3. We have to make a decision, execute the plan and then resume growth in healthier levels.

In terms of 3P, we have to continue to grow. We achieved a very positive profitability level, the more growth, the more it adds to EBITDA and we want to grow without having crazy subsidies that the marketplace had 3 years ago. [indiscernible] lot more rational. We still have a lot [indiscernible] the main countries. So it's a room for us to positively grow our 3P.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you for the question. Regarding the working capital, make a comment about working capital as a whole. What we saw in this quarter, we reduced inventories over [indiscernible] by more than 500 million. In that sense compared to last year, we also reduced the suppliers' account. But we continue, and this is something we are always looking for in achieving a balance in this relationship. A balance of suppliers that will fund our investment in inventory, in other words. In other words, we finance our customer with the consumer finance, we work with our suppliers so that we can achieve this balance so that our suppliers will be financing their inventories in our distribution centers.

We are treating that. And this year, we also achieved an increase in the average term of purchases compared to last year. And now when looking forward, we have an expectation to increase the turnover of our inventories. We've been reducing the inventories. But we haven't improved the inventory turnover yet, given the strategy of better balancing growth versus margin, as Fred mentioned. But now, from now on, with greater growth in Q4, sales are already improving.

So the turnover of the inventory is already improving significantly. And with the expectation of growth in the coming years, we should see an improvement in inventory turnover and maintaining an average term that is healthy, always trying to have the suppliers to fund our inventory. At the same level that we currently have.

[Operator]

Next question, João Soares with Citi.

[Joao Pedro Soares, analyst]

Two questions. My first question, I would like to dive deeper into this opportunity. In terms of EBITDA margin or EBITDA, as you better monetize the marketplace platform. So I'd like to hear from your, Fred, what about this trajectory into the future, reflecting this monetization in EBITDA? The second question, I understand you had a good review of controls. And for the future, the operation seems to be well balanced for this type of control or debt with suppliers. But I would just like to understand, just to make it clear, if this investigation is already concluded and if there is any risk of having a restatement going back, 2022 was restated. But if we consider previous balance sheets prior to 2022. Any risk in this regard?

[Frederico Rodrigues, executive]

Thank you for the question. About 3P more specifically and actually about EBITDA. We already noticed improvement in October vis-a-vis the third quarter, I would say, a significant improvement. We can see that's a trend for the future as well. From the moment our projects and our actions evolve. In 1P and in 3P as well, like I said in the previous question, we see sales expenses in the last quarter, something more temporary to investments. I believe chances are that we improve margins to go back to our historical levels before the pandemic levels. So this is the contribution for 3P for the EBITDA margin. And in the management report, we talked about October, and this is what we noticed we want in the short term, what I mean by short term is already in Q4. But in Q4, we also have Black Friday and margins tend to be balanced or go down. We want to keep on posting growth showing to the market how we evolve in our actions that we already showed in Q3, but more significantly in the future.

About the second point, we've been extensively working so that the numbers reflect exactly the facts. Avoiding restatements that we had in market circumstances in the past, I think it brings a lot of stress unnecessarily. So it's important to show the right figures, 100% reliable figures. And I'll give the floor to Beto to tell you more about it.

[Roberto Rodrigues, executive]

Thank you, João. Actually, the numbers were exhaustively revisited since early 2022 up to September '23. All the numbers and figures, the balance sheet, financial statements, income statements, the capital structure, accounts receivable, all these figures were extremely tested and revised. So we are very convinced that there will not be changed. Auditing processes this quarter were normal. The numbers of the third quarter were extensively reviewed. So as you know, we have an annual audit. And now in Q4, we will conclude the annual audit for full year 2023 compared to full year 2022, considering early 2022, just as we showed the effect in net adjustment on that chart, starting the first balance sheet in 2022 up to now. there is no obligation or need to go back to previous periods or prior than 2022.

But certainly, the audit committee is already working on this, and we'll be auditing on a quarterly basis, all results for 2022 and 2023. So we always have 2 years of data as required by CPC with comparable auditing actions. So we can be convinced these are the final numbers.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Eric with Santander.

[Eric Huang, analyst]

One of our question is, we wonder if you could tell us more about the competitive environment, particularly in more in core segments like home appliances, electronics and also understand the relationship with the industry. You talked about working capital, but maybe you could give us more color and also the entry or some marketplace. Companies that are more marketplace now getting to 1P. And maybe if you could tell us more on the second question about ads revenue service or fee revenue is going up. So what about the contribution? What are the gains of gross margin this quarter? Maybe more specifically coming from Ads it seems to be an interesting opportunity into the future.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you very much for the question. I believe the competitive environment is favorable. Our main competitor were taxes and interest rates in the coming quarters in the past quarters. So there's not a different rationale in the market or marketplaces selling or doing GMV with 0 take rates or subsidizing price and shipping. So in 1P, everybody has to pay taxes, DIFAL, it's the same tax for everybody. That's the same reality both for sellers and big operators. And the physical store, we still have a lot of room for growth. Our share in physical stores is smaller than 1P. And there's plenty of room to improve our share in physical stores.

Even if the physical store market goes down, we have a lot of room for growth, gaining share. But I think it will keep on growing because actually, we are moving -- we hit rock bottom and now we have a recovery in interest and also an increase in credit, certainly in the coming quarters.

I'm very confident. And as now, we have better income conditions for low-income households. We believe we have a very comfortable position in physical stores, and our 1P has a competitive edge, which has been multichannel, no other operator has the same, delivering 85% of our 1P category within 2 days. Nobody else can do it. We use our stores for store pickup or so our model, our 1P model is highly competitive. What happened to 1P has nothing to do with competition, but with macroeconomics, high interest rates, high taxes. And now the tax was given pass-through and interest rates have to go down. So once the macroeconomics improve, 1P operation will improve into the future. Fabrício, anything about suppliers and also the impact on Ads.

[Fabrício Garcia, executive]

Thank you for the question, Fabrício speaking. I think Magalu has a historical relationship with the industry. We are the second greatest player among the big suppliers in our core business. Our relationship with them is the best possible. We've been doing a great year on a monthly basis. So we have great plans for the end of the year. The environment is more rational and stores are very strong and this is very favorable, and we feel confident that we'll be selling with profitability, which is important. So our relationship is fine, and the outlook is the best possible.

[Eduardo Galanternick, executive]

Eric, Eduardo speaking. Just given more color about Ads. For services, yes, there is an impact from Ads revenue in-house. We are not disclosing the numbers yet. But we understand there is plenty of room to grow this year. This year was a very important year when it comes to expanding the platform. We increased our sponsored product platform over the year for several areas like surge, our recommendation system at Magalu, a fully integrated system. Over the last quarter, we had a big step, which was allocation to other stores in the group. Deploying it at Netshoes given advertisers, the chance to offer this not only at Magalu, but also at Netshoes next quarter in all companies in the group. So we're also going to change our display in the platform after Black Friday, bringing other possibilities. So this is only the beginning. And there may be an impact on service or fee income, but the best is yet to come.

[Operator]

Next question from Vinicius Pretto with Bank of America.

[Vinicius Pretto de Souza, analyst]

Trying to understand how you're seeing your capital structure. There is a significant part of the debt maturing in the short term. And last night, there was news that the controllers were considering a capital increase. I would like to understand what you're thinking about this? And the second question, you mentioned a number of progress in monetization of 3P. And this seems to have contributed a lot, but increase in gross margin. But this was not totally translated into a higher EBITDA margin. I'd like to understand what components of expenses limited this and how the 3P margin compares with 1P and physical stores and how you see this evolving looking forward.

[Unknown Executive]

I'll start speaking about the capital structure. Thank you for the question. Well, you see the Netshoes. We don't comment on rumors in the market. These rumors have happened several times along the year. It's just the rumors. They have no relationship with the company whatsoever. But I'll take your question to reinforce, like I said, that from the standpoint of capital structure, well, you can analyze it in several ways. From the standpoint of liquidity, we have BRL 8 billion. They are in cash, cash equivalents and receivables with daily liquidity. I think that this is super important. And in that regard, our liquidity is much higher than our gross debt even greater than our net debt. If we consider just the cash and the investments, they amount to more than the short-term debt of the company.

And we are now starting a period of growing cash flow from the operations. We spoke about the growth of the marketplace, about the expansion of the operating margins. You saw our financial expenses dropping market way. That is the trend that should become even more pronounced in 2024. Soon we have an opportunity to continue to improve inventory turnover and even our working capital as a whole. So the outlook is that we'll increase and accelerate the increase in operating cash and reducing even further our financial expenses and the cash flow of financing, significantly improving our leverage over other metrics as well in the coming quarters and years. So our capital structure today is considered by us to be very solid, very liquid. And there's no need -- there's nothing being discussed at the Board of Directors to increase capital.

Again, I'd like to stress that these are rumors in the market. And now speaking about the margins, I think I answered this before, but our stress expectation is that the margins will continue to increase as the marketplace gains share the margin tends to increase. And as we transform this new level of gross margin, if we translate that into 1P growth, given the market dynamics we're observing and declining interest rates, that will drive the top line of this category with more credit at the stores, more growth in the category of durable goods, which are important for 1P. And also with the dilution of expenses EBITDA should be improving in the future.

Like I said, we have already a very positive sign from October. We are running above the level of Q3. And we imagine that this will be the trend to be observed looking forward.

[Operator]

Next question from Danniela Eiger of XP.

[Danniela Eiger, analyst]

I have just 1 question. It's actually more midterm strategy question. You were always very vocal about the 3P strategy. And this has been the main growth driver of the company. But how do you see yourselves positioned in the market, also relative to other platforms. Do you want to have this 3P strong, but in more of a complementary positioning or synergistic with 1P categories. I just want to get a sense of how you see your main competitive differentials considering a more aggressive competition, particularly of international platforms and international players.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you for the question. I'll be very objective in my answer. Actually, 2 big differentials of our value proposition. Number one, the multichannel approach. When we built our 3P, we've built it driving our existing or based on our existing structure. The physical stores, the CDs, the pickup, a high percentage of 3P sales are picked up at the stores and also the fulfillment, which will increase the share of store pickup. So with those stores and multichannels, we have lower 3P costs. And we don't have to charge so much from the seller relatively.

We can try to even less from consumers, we can grow with profitability without these subsidies. So multichannels, there were differential for us to become a leader in 1P will be, in my opinion, what will make us be a relevant player in 3P as well.

Second factor, Danny. We're working up and saying this over and over in the calls. We tend to work with higher-ticket products. Today, Magalu 3P is leading product costing more than BRL 1,000. We have a high penetration there. confidently, electronics and household appliances. But the general categories of electronics and household deploying is above BRL 1,000. I do really well put in new categories of car tires and lawn mowers, et cetera, we are doing really well. So at Magalu, you're going to buy high-quality product with a reliable origin. When you are buying a product that you're going to pay BRL 400, BRL 500, you want to be -- sure that this is a regional product, a high-quality product, and you're not going to have problems.

Because if you buy a property that cost BRL 20, that's fine. If it doesn't work, you can return it. It's not a problem. But in higher-priced products. We are focused on that to focus on products above BRL 100, good quality products with a proven origin. So we have a component of logistics and credit that will help us have a beautiful share and a good positioning in high-quality products in a nutshell.

High-quality products with a multichannel approach. That's the differential of our value proposition for the marketplace. Just some of the advantages that will be coming.

[Operator]

Next question, Irma Sgarz with Goldman Sachs.

[Irma Sgarz, analyst]

I would like to go back very briefly to selling expenses. There was a slight increase this quarter. Investments in new customers. I wonder if you could tell us more about how you envisage the cost of acquisition of customers in the market. And -- how should we consider the evolution of this line in the future? Considering 3P still is an important investment area and also accelerating 1P again. I believe there was a slightly higher atypical investment this quarter. What brings you confidence in the sense that this line will be more diluted in the future despite higher growth? Second question. Just briefly going back to 1P. Fred, when you talk about the main drivers for growth, higher growth, for 1P. I understand macro is 1 driver. But what about other levers that you intend to actively to speed the business again?

[Frederico Rodrigues, executive]

Thank you very much for the question. I'm going to highlight some points that Beto mentioned about expenses. Marketplace, when you check the balance sheet, you have to consider it with GMV, not revenue. It greatly contributes to margin, but effectively, marketing expenses increased once increase its share, because it's positive and tends to contribute to EBITDA, what do improve in margin is more than proportional to improvement in incremental sales revenue. So do we have this -- that increased a lot for the last 2 years and continue to contribute. So in October for this quarter, we are convinced that this expense will be diluted. The more marketplace increases the share of the company, the more the percentage EBITDA of the company will grow because the take rate more than offsets this increase in expenses down the road.

There is a specific impact of our selling expenses. We had a price passed through in 1P. In Q3, a significant pass-through for default pass-through. Whenever you have slightly higher prices, we are market leaders, and we tend to be the first to do the pass-through and then the market for the students. CPC goes up. So the cost per click is higher because your price is higher in the search and you have to pay more in the marketing auction. It's a temporary event because later on, the market eventually get stable in that pricing and returns in ROE continue to increase. I believe this will happen in Q4 again.

I already see this happening, conditions improving. So I'm convinced that will show an operational leverage and EBITDA margin in the coming quarters. That's a very important focus by the whole team, and it's going to be clear in our results for the future. And the second question, 1P grow. Okay. I think we -- the company was listed for 12 years now. And Magalu is in physical stores for 64 years. It's a cyclic category. That's a fact. Every 7 years, you have 2 years low categories. And then you believe this is going to come to an end.

When I took over in 2015, all analysts ask me, are you going to close the physical stores, the category come to an end, but then you have a virtual cycle as interest rates go down from 14% to 8%, 7% and then the category started growing. The same in 2008. Challenges, high interest rates, no sales, you have high advanced prices visa credit paying. The costs are high difference, so it's a cycle sector. We've been working in 1P and 3P in order not to rely 100%. But that's a cycle sector. Like I said, we've been on it for a while. The worst is over.

Financial expenses went down BRL 100 million year-over-year, 1 percentage point less already. And certainly, the demand for November is already reflecting that it's time for consumers to buy again. There was some advance during the pandemic. They bought a lot of durables with high inventory rate, but now they have to exchange the fridge, the mobile phone and new TV screen.

So chances are we improve in the future. There is a macro impact. But now with this margin and profitability base, we cannot do both at the same time. So we believe we can gain share, particularly with physical stores, but also won't be our share in what is very high for traditional categories, but we still have room for growth.

[Operator]

The next question, Vitor Pini with Safra.

[Vitor Pini, analyst]

My questions were already answered.

[Operator]

Next question Joseph Giordano with JPMorgan.

[Joseph Giordano, analyst]

I'd like to go back to 3P. You are highlighting a lot. How far can you go when it comes to take rate, and new services. I'd like to know the shipment impact we can see this opportunity? And how do you see that? And lastly, when we think about the commercial strategy for 2024, how do you see the targets in the industry considering this market? Maybe do you believe bonus are going back to normal?

[Eduardo Galanternick, executive]

Eduardo speaking. Answering your question about take rate, like Fred said, the bulk of this improvement of marketplace comes from adjustment in take rate and also a number of things related to incentives. We believe there is still a chart about collections when you consider what is charged and also the subsidies for shipping purposes. This is still competitive. We also understand that marketplace brings a number of options. For profitability growth, like ads, logistics services, financial services offer and credit services as well. So in this context, we had a significant progress, but we believe there's still room to improve our profitability and better use these options we have. When it comes to [indiscernible], we complied with the program. And once we have the legal framework that gives us confidence, we believe that's an opportunity for the company to add to our assortment and bring brands and products that are not available in Brazil.

Our product portfolio is not only related to these products that come from abroad. So that's an opportunity for us. That's how we look at how we see this option right now. About your second question, I believe the current level already reflects the market scenario. I don't expect to see any changes in this regard.

[Operator]

Next question from João Paulo with Bradesco.

[João Paulo Andrade, analyst]

I want to see if you have any refreshment color regarding the expansion of physical stores. Given that you've gone through a purging period, you are now at a level of profitability of the gross margin, which is more adjusted, all the synergies with the other businesses, a lot of things flowing through the brick-and-mortar stores. So in the mid to long term, how do you see the potential of expanding physical stores? What would be the triggers to resume the expansion of physical stores in addition to interest rates? And the second one, what are you thinking about the expansion of financial products and services at Magalu Fintech?

[Frederico Rodrigues, executive]

João Paulo, this is Frederico speaking. Thank you for the question. Regarding the physical stores, our focus at this point is have a profitability of the current stores. In the mid-run, we don't have any expansion plan, but we want to have a very profitable channel. As it has always been. We are gaining gross margin. We are focusing on new regions where we opened new stores, [indiscernible]. We have a lot of market share to gain in those regions. So in the midterm, our focus is to make our current set of stores more profitable.

[Unknown Analyst]

And this is Carlos [indiscernible], JP. Regarding the road map of our fintech is to scale up and increase the profitability of our insurance product in credit.

[Unknown Executive]

At checkout of our digital channels because today, we have a well-developed product for the network of stores, but it does not reach the digital layer of our business. We have a number of fronts linked to monetizing this relationship with the seller, which is our growth frontier at 3P. So it's all geared to increased scale and profitability. The road map is pragmatic, solid, so that we can build a monetization, which is adequate. And in a short period of time. I hope I have answered your question.

[Operator]

We are now ending the Q&A session. I would like to turn the floor to Frederico Trajano for his final remarks. Fred, go ahead.

[Frederico Rodrigues, executive]

Well, thank you for participating in this conference call with us. Have a great week.

[Operator]

Magalu's conference call is ended. The Investor Relations team is available to answer any further questions you might have. We thank you for your participation, and have a great day.