Bharat Forge Ltd
NSE:BHARATFORG

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Bharat Forge Ltd
NSE:BHARATFORG
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Price: 1 383.3 INR 0.71% Market Closed
Market Cap: 661.3B INR

Q2-2026 Earnings Call

AI Summary
Earnings Call on Nov 11, 2025

Revenue Decline: Stand-alone revenue fell to INR 1,947 crores, down 7.5% QoQ, mainly due to a sharp drop in North American commercial vehicle exports.

Margin Resilience: EBITDA margin for the stand-alone business was 28% despite the tough environment, supported by cost reductions and product mix improvements.

New Orders: The company secured INR 1,582 crores in new business across key segments in H1, including defense and casting.

Defense Growth: Defense and aerospace are expected to drive growth, with new large orders, including a recently won INR 250 crore Navy order and a potential INR 1,400 crore carbine order.

Outlook: Management expects Q3 to be similar to Q2, with some recovery in Q4, and continues to see India as a major growth focus.

Acquisition Integration: The K-Drive Mobility (American Axle India) acquisition was consolidated for the first time and is expected to provide long-term opportunities.

Strong Balance Sheet: Company maintains a strong cash position of INR 2,300 crores and is preparing to raise up to INR 2,000 crores for future growth and acquisitions.

North America & Export Markets

The company experienced a significant decline in exports to North America, particularly in the commercial vehicle segment, due to rapid market slowdown and ongoing inventory destocking. Management expects Q3 performance to be similar to Q2, with potential improvement in Q4 if destocking eases and trade uncertainties resolve.

Defense and Aerospace Growth

Defense and aerospace are key growth drivers. New orders in defense, including a recent INR 250 crore Navy contract and discussions on a potential INR 1,400 crore carbine order, provide strong visibility. The ATAGS artillery order is expected to start contributing from calendar year 2026, with execution over about three years. Aerospace revenue is projected to grow from INR 250 crores last year to over INR 350 crores this year, with a healthy multi-year growth outlook.

Cost & Margin Management

Despite lower revenues, EBITDA margin remained robust at 28% for the stand-alone business. Management attributes this to aggressive cost reductions, plant shutdowns, greater value addition in-house, and an improved product mix. Margin improvements are expected to be sustainable as mainline products ramp up, especially in defense.

Acquisitions & Business Diversification

The first full quarter with K-Drive Mobility (American Axle India) consolidated into results shows progress on integration. Management sees opportunities in light and intermediate commercial vehicles, SUVs, and specialty axles. Future acquisitions will focus on related growth areas in India, with an enabling debt approval of up to INR 2,000 crores to support both organic and inorganic expansion.

Overseas Operations & Restructuring

European and US aluminum operations remained stable with 60-65% capacity utilization but faced soft demand. The company continues to evaluate restructuring options for its European steel business, with a clear roadmap expected by fiscal year-end. Steady performance in overseas subsidiaries supported consolidated results despite regional challenges.

Order Book & Execution Timeline

The defense order book stands near INR 11,000 crores, but management highlighted that execution for large defense orders takes time, often more than three years, with ramp-up occurring after necessary processes and approvals. Recent major orders will begin to contribute to revenues starting within 6-12 months of signing, with full delivery spread over several years.

India Growth Strategy

With India positioned as the fastest-growing market, Bharat Forge is increasing its focus on Indian manufacturing across steel forgings and castings. Management aims to capitalize on global sourcing trends and is implementing a strategy to capture greater market share domestically, supported by capacity expansions and strategic acquisitions.

Stand-alone Revenue
INR 1,947 crores
Change: Q-o-Q degrowth of 7.5%.
Stand-alone EBITDA
INR 545 crores
Change: Lower by about 7.3% sequentially.
Stand-alone EBITDA Margin
28%
No Additional Information
H1 Stand-alone Revenue
INR 4,052 crores
No Additional Information
H1 Stand-alone EBITDA Margin
27.9%
No Additional Information
Consolidated Revenue (Q2)
INR 4,032 crores
No Additional Information
Consolidated EBITDA Margin (Q2)
17.7%
No Additional Information
H1 Consolidated Revenue
INR 7,941 crores
No Additional Information
H1 Consolidated EBITDA Margin
17.6%
No Additional Information
Cash (Consolidated)
INR 2,300 crores
No Additional Information
New Business Wins (H1)
INR 1,582 crores
No Additional Information
CV Exports to North America (Sequential)
Down 48%
No Additional Information
CV Exports to North America (YoY)
Down 67%
No Additional Information
European Aluminum Utilization (Q2)
60% to 65%
No Additional Information
European Aluminum EBITDA (Q2)
INR 32 crores
No Additional Information
US Aluminum Utilization (Q2)
65%
No Additional Information
US Aluminum EBITDA (Q2)
INR 16 crores
No Additional Information
JS Auto Q2 Sales Growth
26%
Change: Q2 sales up 26%.
JS Auto Q2 EBITDA Growth
44%
Change: Q2 EBITDA up 44%.
Aerospace Revenue (Last Year)
INR 250 crores
Guidance: Expected to exceed INR 350 crores this year.
Aerospace Revenue (Current Year Guidance)
In excess of INR 350 crores
Guidance: Growth expected to continue for next 3-4 years.
Defense Navy Order
INR 250 crores
Guidance: Execution to be completed within 1 year.
Defense Carbine Order (Potential)
INR 1,400 crores
Guidance: Execution over a 4-year period post-signing.
Stand-alone Revenue
INR 1,947 crores
Change: Q-o-Q degrowth of 7.5%.
Stand-alone EBITDA
INR 545 crores
Change: Lower by about 7.3% sequentially.
Stand-alone EBITDA Margin
28%
No Additional Information
H1 Stand-alone Revenue
INR 4,052 crores
No Additional Information
H1 Stand-alone EBITDA Margin
27.9%
No Additional Information
Consolidated Revenue (Q2)
INR 4,032 crores
No Additional Information
Consolidated EBITDA Margin (Q2)
17.7%
No Additional Information
H1 Consolidated Revenue
INR 7,941 crores
No Additional Information
H1 Consolidated EBITDA Margin
17.6%
No Additional Information
Cash (Consolidated)
INR 2,300 crores
No Additional Information
New Business Wins (H1)
INR 1,582 crores
No Additional Information
CV Exports to North America (Sequential)
Down 48%
No Additional Information
CV Exports to North America (YoY)
Down 67%
No Additional Information
European Aluminum Utilization (Q2)
60% to 65%
No Additional Information
European Aluminum EBITDA (Q2)
INR 32 crores
No Additional Information
US Aluminum Utilization (Q2)
65%
No Additional Information
US Aluminum EBITDA (Q2)
INR 16 crores
No Additional Information
JS Auto Q2 Sales Growth
26%
Change: Q2 sales up 26%.
JS Auto Q2 EBITDA Growth
44%
Change: Q2 EBITDA up 44%.
Aerospace Revenue (Last Year)
INR 250 crores
Guidance: Expected to exceed INR 350 crores this year.
Aerospace Revenue (Current Year Guidance)
In excess of INR 350 crores
Guidance: Growth expected to continue for next 3-4 years.
Defense Navy Order
INR 250 crores
Guidance: Execution to be completed within 1 year.
Defense Carbine Order (Potential)
INR 1,400 crores
Guidance: Execution over a 4-year period post-signing.

Earnings Call Transcript

Transcript
from 0
Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Bharat Forge Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kalyani, Vice Chairman and Joint Managing Director, Bharat Forge Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Thank you. I'm joined here -- first of all, a very warm welcome to all our friends in the analyst community and the investor community. Thank you for joining our Q2 investor call. We are joined here -- I'm joined here by our finance, Investor Relations and Global business development teams. I will first have Mr. Kedar Dixit, our CFO, take you through our numbers, and then I'll take you through a short overview, and then we'll do a Q&A. Go ahead, Kedar.

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

Thank you, and welcome to Bharat Forge's conference call. Talking about stand-alone business highlights for the quarter and H1 FY '26. The revenue standalone revenues were at INR 1,947 crores, which was a Q-o-Q degrowth of 7.5%. The rapid degrowth in North American CV market, coupled with inventory destocking has impacted our export performance, and that is the main reason for the drop. CV exports to North America are down 48% on a sequential basis and about 67% on a Y-o-Y basis. Passenger vehicle and other industrial segment has shown the resilience, limiting the impact on the profitability. Stand-alone EBITDA in this quarter was at INR 545 crores with 28% margins, which was lower by about 7.3% sequentially.

This includes INR 24 crores on account of tariff charges. Talking about the H1 performance, revenues were at INR 4,052 crores and EBITDA margin at 27.9%. From a consolidated revenue perspective, the quarterly revenues were INR 4,032 crores and EBITDA margins were 17.7%. Steady performance in overseas subsidiaries and strong execution in defense has helped the bottom line performance. Quarter 2 numbers also include first-time consolidation of K-Drive Mobility, which was the American Axle India manufacturing business, which we acquired. The integration progress is on track.

Talking about the 6 months, the consolidated revenues were INR 7,941 crores with EBITDA margin of 17.6%, and we had cash of about INR 2,300 crores on a consolidated basis. During H1 of this fiscal, the company had secured new business worth INR 1,582 crores across all key businesses, which includes Bharat Forge component and industrial business of INR 823 crores, defense INR 559 crores and our casting business of INR 200 crores.

Talking about overseas subsidiaries, the European aluminum operations were stable amidst soft demand due to holiday season. Utilization levels in Q2 were about 60% to 65%. During the quarter, European operations recorded EBITDA of INR 32 crores. U.S. aluminum had a benign quarter given the sentiment in North American passenger car market. The U.S. operations recorded EBITDA of INR 16 crores for this quarter. The current utilization level is about 65% -- the current utilization level of aluminum business in the U.S. was about 65%. We continue to evaluate restructuring options for our European steel operations, and we will update the progress by end of this fiscal.

Now I will hand over to Mr. Amit Kalyani.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Yes. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'll just share some observations and outlook with you. The reality on the ground is that '26 is turning out to be a very interesting year because of demand uncertainty in the North American market due to the trade policies and the kind of constant changes we are seeing in it. European exports do look weak as we sit in November but they should show signs of recovery because at this point in time, there's a lot of destocking taking place due to the deceleration in the production numbers. But let's say, the supply side rate from our side is significantly lower than the build rates. .

There are a few more important aspects of our performance. Our balance sheet remains strong with a consolidated cash of about INR 2,300 crores. Our Indian manufacturing, which is our Indian forgings, defense, casting plus axle aggregates now account for about 2/3 of our consolidated revenues across our global business. And it's well diversified across segments and geographies. Aerospace now accounts for about 13% of our industrial exports, and we expect this business to grow at a very healthy rate going forward as well. We have secured new orders and new business in the last quarter as well.

There are clearly some weak spots in our overall business portfolio, which we will -- which we are working to sort out, which mainly includes our overseas steel business and to some extent, our EV business in India. Our constant endeavor is to diversify our business mix, and this has proved to be very relevant and paid off, as you can see that we are weathering the storm far better than companies that are directly playing only in 1 or 2 sectors.

While the cyclical businesses will rebound at some point down the line, there are many new businesses which will start to generate revenue in -- revenue and growth going forward in the next 1 to 2 to 3 years. As the cash flows from the businesses increase, further strengthening the balance sheet, please expect that we will look at doing more acquisitions in India. So we are raising some funds right now. This is all debt. It will be a combination of debt plus NCD. And this is both for organic growth plus for inorganic growth in India. So we've taken an enabling approval of up to INR 2,000 crores, and we will action this depending on when the timing is right.

So what I'd really like to say is that we will continue our focus on our customers, products and opportunities globally, but we are going to double down on India as most companies in the world are because it's the fastest-growing global market with the most headroom for growth. So we have created a strategy that will allow us to get a longer -- get a stronger piece of the action in India, and we're going to take some very fundamental steps to implement a growth strategy that allows us to get a larger share of this business.

In terms of second half outlook, in defense, we should see the momentum pick up for defense as execution improves. Aerospace for the full year, Aerospace will record strong growth over last year. The recent tie-up of orders with global aero engine majors for existing and new programs offers good long-term visibility. On JS Auto, we are seeing continued growth. We have seen -- we should see better top line and EBITDA performance in the second half. JSA continues to receive strong business inquiries and traction in export markets as well. Our Q2 sales growth for JS was about 26% and an EBITDA growth of about 44%. So clearly, even the profitability of the business is improving. New additions like K-Drive Mobility offer significant long-term opportunities on the product side.

Our focus is on our Indian manufacturing portfolio across steel forgings, ferrous and aluminum casting is helping us increase our content per customer and also to move at a platform level with our customers. As global MNCs increase their sourcing from India, our Indian manufacturing business is geared to tap into this demand. On the steel Europe, we will have a road map in place outlining the shape and form of the proposed restructuring of the steel business by the end of this fiscal. So to sum up, the near-term outlook for the North American market is still a question mark. It depends on a lot of underlying factors.

However, with multiple growth engines like aerospace, defense and JS Auto, this decline should get offset. In the medium term, we are in the midst of increasing our capacities in India to address opportunities in many new sectors, including aerospace and engineering, and this will be supplemented by the inorganic route in India, where we believe we can generate significant synergistic benefits and get to markets faster than organic.

So that's really all I wanted to say right now. And now I'm happy to take your Q&A. And me and my colleagues will be happy to answer your questions.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Binay from Morgan Stanley.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

Team, it's a good quarter. You managed it well in this challenging environment. I'll just go back to our Q2 commentary, where we talked about Q2 being the toughest quarter in the year. And now would you still maintain that the full impact of tariff slowdown, especially on the export side is already built in, the destocking is done? Or do you expect that to trickle into Q3 as well?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

I would say Q2 and Q3 should be similar. And hopefully, by Q4, we should see uptick.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

And on the export of non-auto, we've seen a nice jump sequentially. Could you talk a little bit about what drove that? Because if I look at your aerospace number, seems largely flat quarter-over-quarter. So what are the other segments that drove that?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

It's multiple sectors. It includes power gen. It includes construction, mining and aerospace.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

So sustainable in that sense.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Yes.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

And lastly, just on gross margins, very impressive gross margins. I think it's one of the highest that we've done in recent times. Could you help us in a break down into factors that are driving it? And how sustainable is this?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

We've done a lot of cost reduction work. When the quarter started and it looked really bleak, we took a lot of block shutdowns, et cetera. And we're trying to do more value addition in-house, more -- improve our product mix. So it's a combination of all these factors. .

Operator

Our next question is from the line of Kapil Singh from Nomura.

K
Kapil Singh
analyst

Sir, on the defense order book, I just wanted to clarify, there was a carbines order as well. What is the size of that order?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

No, carbine order is not included in this.

K
Kapil Singh
analyst

What is the size of that order, sir?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

It's about INR 1,400 crores.

K
Kapil Singh
analyst

Okay. And what would be the execution time line for that?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

First, we want to sign the order, then FOPM. So from the time the order gets signed, I would say about 9 to 12 months.

K
Kapil Singh
analyst

So entire order can be executed in 9 to 12 months.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

No, no, start. It would be executed over a 4-year period because it's 2 lakh, 2 lakh-odd weapons.

K
Kapil Singh
analyst

Understood. And sir, there was a mention in the commentary that there were some INR 24 crores tariff charges. What is it related to? And where is it accounted for?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

What?

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

So this is the tariff charges, the sharing of tariff, the U.S. tariff, what we have for our U.S. exports.

K
Kapil Singh
analyst

Okay. And where is it accounted? .

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

This is in sales.

K
Kapil Singh
analyst

Okay. Okay. So I mean, as things stand, is this the peak? Or should we expect that there will be a further impact because the tariff seems to have gone up, right?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

I think it's a very dynamic situation. It's difficult to comment with any amount of certainty. And it's a little bit of a competitive information issue. So I don't think I want to talk about it very publicly. .

Operator

Sorry to interrupt, we request you to please rejoin the queue if you have further questions. [Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Gunjan Prithyani from Bank of America. .

G
Gunjan Prithyani
analyst

Just a quick clarification. There is no -- on this tariff, there is no -- this was only for a month or 2, it was in quarter 1, it was only INR 14 crores, but partial period, right? This is for the entire period. Is that the correct way to look at it? The entire quarter had a tariff implication.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

No. This was for the quarter. I don't want to say anything more than that.

G
Gunjan Prithyani
analyst

Okay. Got it. No worries. Just going to the defense business. Now with the new order, we'll be roughly at whatever, INR 11,000-odd crores sort of order book. How would you think we think about the revenue or execution time frame of this? I'm just trying to assess what sort of growth we think on the defense business in over next 2 years. More addition, new wins, what is the growth that we bake in from the current level.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

We'll definitely continue to have new wins and additions. But our execution will also start because I think ATAGS execution should start in maybe about 6 to 9 months. And then that will continue ramping up. So that's a big order. And then other orders, what I mentioned on the carbine, once that FOPM -- once the order is signed, then the FOPM and then 9 to 12 months after that, it will start.

G
Gunjan Prithyani
analyst

Sir, the INR 10,000 crore order book, which is there roughly right now, it's fair to assume that 3 years sort of time frame is a good time frame to work with in terms of execution or it could take longer than that. .

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

No, it will take longer than that. See, realistically, in this business, from the time an order is signed, you cannot expect revenues to start in less than 12 months, unless it's a revenue item, okay? If it is a revenue item, then it can start much sooner. But in capital items, it definitely will take time.

G
Gunjan Prithyani
analyst

Got it. And second question is on aerospace. I mean, you do talk about a lot of wins. Can you also give us some perspective on how to think about the revenue stream there? What is it right now? How does that scale up based on the visibility you have over the next couple of years.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

So aerospace for last year, for the full year was in the ballpark of about INR 250-odd crores, okay? I think this year should be in excess of INR 350 crores. So we are growing at that kind of rate or higher.

G
Gunjan Prithyani
analyst

And that rate should continue.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Hopefully, it should continue for the next 3, 4 years at least.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Nitin Jain from Fair Value Equity Advisory.

U
Unknown Analyst

Congrats on a decent quarter. And I joined the call late. So apologies if my questions are repetitive. So last quarter, the management had guided that Q2 will mostly be the bottom of this down cycle for the overall business. Now given the geopolitical situation between India and U.S., it is still not resolved, and we don't know when it will be resolved. So do we still stand with that commentary? Or we see some more pain going forward?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Well, clearly, when we spoke last time, we were more hopeful of a quicker resolution to the issue. And if you see the statements coming out of the U.S., it seems like there's a solution which is very close to finalization. So I think we would have hoped for it to have happened a little earlier, but I would expect that, hopefully, in this quarter, it should happen. And I would say quarter 3 will be on a similar lines as quarter 2 as of now. .

U
Unknown Analyst

Okay. And can you provide some color on what kind of revenue opportunity we have in the server manufacturing business over the next 2, 3 years? And what kind of margins can we expect here?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

It's a very small -- it's a business that we're trying to evaluate because we see that as a very large new opportunity. We see the whole data center space as a big opportunity. Server manufacturing is -- I don't know if it's an end in itself or a means to an end because we want to understand the whole product level and the system level architecture complexity and understand where opportunity for us lies.

So I don't think looking at server manufacturing as a very big opportunity right now because we are only learning this business, okay? So I think in 6 months from now to 9 months from now, we'll have a better idea of this business. Clearly, that's a whole area that we are interested in, but it's too early to talk about what size and scale and margins.

Operator

Our next question is from the line of Rishi Vora from Kotak Securities.

R
Rishi Vora
analyst

Congrats on good set of numbers. My first question is, in the presentation, you had highlighted that the defense assets transferred to KSSL. So was there any impact on the stand-alone revenues on account of this or the revenue booking remains the same?

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

Yes. So the revenue bookings remains the same. It's only the business what we have transferred from Bharat Forge to Kalyani Strategic Systems. And so it -- the more of the assets which have moved and all the new orders, what we will get, those would be on Kalyani Strategic Systems.

R
Rishi Vora
analyst

Understood. But the ATAGS would be a part of stand-alone.

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

Yes. So currently, the order is on Bharat Forge Limited.

R
Rishi Vora
analyst

Understood. And when -- if you win a carbine order whenever, that would be a part of consol -- or subsidiary basically.

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

So that would be still Bharat Forge Limited.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

See, orders that we have -- RFPs that we have responded to prior to this in Bharat Forge will always be executed in Bharat Forge -- KSSL is a 100% subsidiary of Bharat Forge. So it really does...

R
Rishi Vora
analyst

Just from an accounting perspective, nothing else. And just second question on the tariff situation, just wanted to understand a little better because today, there is a PV component tariff which we have, then there is another CV component tariff. On top of it, there is metal tariff and then there is a reciprocal tariff.

So for the U.S. business, can you just bifurcate what percentage of business is linked to this kind of tariff. Because whenever the deal happens, we just want to understand which business or which segments does get positively impacted and when -- where there is no impact. Any broad color you can share.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

We can't break our tariffs down in that way. You have an outlook on our overall business, okay? You have -- you know how much of our business goes to U.S., how much goes to Europe. So I think we should just leave it at that. There's one thing actually I wanted to mention, which I couldn't earlier because -- the paper is on my -- because it hadn't been sent to the stock exchange. Just give me 1 minute.

So we just wanted to make one announcement that yesterday, our defense business won an order from the Navy, and this business -- so you can see it on the BSE website also. So Kalyani Strategic Systems secured a business of more than INR 250 crores for the supply of underwater systems. This is for basically unmanned marine systems for the Navy. So you may be aware that the underwater domain is a key focus area for us. With India's huge coastline and interesting neighborhood that we operate in, we have to protect and secure our Navy and coastal facilities. So this is one of the first orders that we have won, a second order that we have won for this, but a bigger order. And this was just won yesterday, and this will be delivered from our facilities in Pune.

R
Rishi Vora
analyst

And when does it start in executable period for the same?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

This is within 1 year. All this has to be delivered within 1 year.

R
Rishi Vora
analyst

And it will start in this year?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Yes, it has to be delivered within 1 year of yesterday.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Pramod Amthe from InCred Capital.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

So first thing is with regard to the defense subsidiary. There is some improvement in margins to a double digit. Is it more of a product mix? How sustainable is it?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Yes. So look, it's a product mix issue, and it will keep improving as our mainline products come on stream and revenue ramp up.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

Okay. And second one is with regard to American Axle. Now you are through with a couple of quarters on this acquisition. In terms of broader strategy, how do you see -- where are the easier fruits to come through? And what's the medium-term plan in terms of product profile expansion?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Here, whole LCV and ICV business is a big opportunity in India as is the SUV sector when it comes to the on-highway market. And then you also have a large off-highway and specialty axles business. So we will focus on these 2 areas and grow our business.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

And are there any noncompete clauses for it in terms of exports?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

There are geographies like in North America that are noncompete, but everything is only for a period of 5 years.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

Okay. And is there a scope to improve margins in the short term considering the overheads and all? Or do you feel...

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

Yes, absolutely. We are very focused on that.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

Okay. Are there any set rules you want to play over the next 3, 5 years in a sense, first margins, then product mix, how to look at this entity where you will see 3 years.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

We are going to play Horizon 1 and we have a separate team for Horizon 2. So Horizon 1 team will focus on existing products, existing markets and improvement in financials for those sectors. And then the new team will also focus on Horizon 2.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

And any broader top line, bottom line CAGR we will be looking at?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Let's talk about it in 6 months. But clearly, we have an aggressive growth plan.

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

Pramod, just one correction. This was the first quarter of consolidation.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

Okay. For the KSSL?

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

Yes, for American Axle India business.

P
Pramod Amthe
analyst

Yes. Yes, first quarter.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Full quarter.

Operator

The next question comes from the line of Raghunandhan N. L. from Nuvama Research.

R
Raghunandhan N. L.
analyst

Congratulations on strong numbers. Firstly, any update you can provide on Europe restructuring? Have your customers approved your...

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Whatever we had to talk about, we've already mentioned in the update. And I already mentioned that before. I don't have any more comment.

R
Raghunandhan N. L.
analyst

Got it, sir. Secondly, post the GST cuts, how do you see the India MHCV production outlook?

U
Unknown Executive

Well, as you've seen, the sales of pass cars and all that have been strong, but also due to the festive season. So now that the festive season is over, we'll need to monitor it for another month or 2. Hopefully, it should be -- it should -- the momentum should continue is what we think.

R
Raghunandhan N. L.
analyst

And on the MHCV side, sir?

U
Unknown Executive

MHCV, the broader expectation is it should remain flat. I mean not a very significant growth or degrowth.

R
Raghunandhan N. L.
analyst

Got it, sir. And lastly, on BFISL, there has been a growth. There is also margin expansion to 14%. How do you see the growth ahead in terms of order book and...

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

What are you talking about.

R
Raghunandhan N. L.
analyst

BFISL, which is JS Auto.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Yes, yes. JS Auto, we're already seeing an improvement in margins. And we are quite bullish that we will continue to improve our margins, improve our top line and product mix as well.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Mohit Jain from Tara Capital Partners.

M
Mohit Jain
analyst

Just wanted to ask the fundraise that you're doing, which you said would be used for inorganic as well as organic purposes. If we do an inorganic sort of a thing, would it be related to the current lines of businesses? Or can it be in a completely different area?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Well, right now, it's in areas that are very related to what we're doing and areas where we see opportunities for growth in India.

M
Mohit Jain
analyst

Okay. And I mean, are we comfortable doing, let's say, only some bolt-on sort of an acquisition? Or are we comfortable doing some large ticket acquisition as well?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Well, it really depends on -- it depends on the opportunity and the circumstance. But I think it's -- we're talking -- we're trying to define the animal without knowing what it looks like.

Operator

Our next question is a follow-up from Binay from Morgan Stanley.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

When I look at defense revenues for next year, there should be a very sharp scale up, right? Like your ATAGS, you are saying the scale-up has not started. The carbine order comes in and then this marine order thing. So any revenue number that you would sort of see like basically FY '27 defense revenues?

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

So it would be better than this year for sure.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

Fair. So how many years shall we build the ATAGS order for? Because like FY '27, you said the ATAGS.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

It will start execution from calendar year '26.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

And over how many years?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

At least it will take about 3 years.

B
Binay Singh
analyst

Right. So yes, so I think so in that sense, the scale up should be quite sharp with that for you in the coming years.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Rakesh Roy from Boring AMC, Omkara Capital.

R
Rakesh Roy
analyst

My first question is regarding -- can you light on the scope of business...

Operator

Sorry to interrupt, sir, your line is not very clear. If you could please check the mode that you're using of your device. Sir, please go ahead.

R
Rakesh Roy
analyst

Yes. My first question is regarding, sir, can you give me a scope of business for our AMCA project?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

That's like Horizon 3. That's still far away. But let me explain in a -- maybe in a very general way. India wants to be self-sufficient in many key areas. So one of the areas is as much as possible in aviation, especially for defense. Right now, we have the capability of certain systems and components. We definitely have capabilities on the arms and ammunition that go into the aircraft. But on aircraft manufacturing at a component level, system level, subsystem level, India does not have any established large-scale players. Bharat Forge is already a supplier of rotating components to jet engines, high-temperature components, structural components and landing gears. So these are all the kind of capabilities that we will leverage to create an opportunity for ourselves in the AMCA program, along with our partners.

R
Rakesh Roy
analyst

My next question regarding, sir, recently -- back with a U.K.-based company for UAV. So can you light on this one, sir?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

No, it's all in the public domain, yes. See, UAVs are a very large opportunity, okay? UAVs will go from birds that cost a few thousand dollars to birds that cost tens of millions of dollars. So we are looking at opportunities across the spectrum because some of these opportunities and some of these products will also work with our existing products. So that's where we see a lot of opportunity.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Teesha Shah, an individual investor.

U
Unknown Attendee

So I have 2 questions. One is regarding the order book. So regarding the defense order book, especially, you said earlier that it will take longer than 3 years for us to materialize -- for that to materialize into revenue. So further to that, my question is what...

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

I didn't say 3 years. No, I'm sorry, I didn't say it will take 3 years. No, no, that's not what I said. I said ATAGS order will get executed in 3 years from the time the delivery start.

U
Unknown Attendee

Okay. Okay. Okay. So how long will it take for that order book to convert? What is the conversion ratio? Or what is the conversion time frame to recognize it as revenue?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

I don't understand your question, quite frankly. As I mentioned, there is a process called FOPM that has to take place, after which within 6 to 9 months, we will start deliveries. First year, we will deliver maybe about 15 or so guns, after which we should increase our rate of delivery. And in all, we have to deliver 187 guns. So I think we should deliver 187 in something like 4 years.

U
Unknown Attendee

Okay. Okay. Okay. And to that, the next question would be what would be the key challenges or dependencies in converting the defense pipeline into deliveries, like if it might be any? Just to shed some light on that.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

None. It should be [ fair ] allocation, that's all.

U
Unknown Attendee

Okay. Okay. Perfect. I have one more question. So what is the expected margin trajectory, especially as the product mix shift towards defense and industrial verticals?

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

It's very difficult to give that because the mix -- product mix within defense also is not fixed. So I think our goal is going to be to balance return on capital employed, cash flow, top line, bottom line on an overall basis.

Operator

We have no further questions, ladies and gentlemen. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kalyani for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

A
Amit Kalyani
executive

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for your time and interest in our company and your encouragement. I look forward to our continued dialogue and association. If anybody has any specific questions or clarifications, you may get in touch with our Investor Relations team. Thank you very much, and have a nice evening.

Operator

Thank you.

K
Kedar Dixit
executive

Thank you.

Operator

On behalf of Bharat Forge Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.

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