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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Tanla Platforms Limited Q3 FY '25 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ritu Mehta from Tanla Platforms. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Good evening, and welcome to our Q3 earnings call. Joining with us today are Uday Reddy, Founder, Chairman and CEO; Deepak Goyal, Executive Director and Chief Business Officer; and Abhishek Jain, CFO. Uday will share his perspective on business imperatives and strategic progress made. After his opening remarks, we will be happy to engage with participants and address their questions.
Before we start the call, let me draw your attention to the fact that today's discussion may feature statements that are forward-looking in nature. All statements other than statements of historical facts could be deemed forward-looking in nature. Such statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be quantified or predicted. A detailed disclosure in this regard is mentioned in the results presentation that is uploaded on the website. Audio recording and transcript will be available shortly.
I now hand it over to Uday for his opening remarks.
Thank you, Ritu. Good evening, everyone. Very warm welcome to -- a warm welcome, and thank you for joining this call. I wish you a very, very Happy New Year to all of you. I'm sure you had a chance to go through our investor presentation and my letter, which are very detailed. Let us straight away get into a Q&A, the management team, and I will be very happy to get into more details in the call. Ritu?
Yes, we will now open the Q&A. You can assemble the queue.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of [ Deepak Chokhani with Rate Capital ].
I have 3 questions. First is, how long before we see industry tailwinds to do away with? And how do we plan to grow our revenues? That's question number one. Question number two is VF International. When do you expect the approvals? And the last question is, how do you plan to deploy the cash?
Abhishek, do you want to take this?
Sure. Right. Thank you for the question, Deepak. Let me tell you on the growth story side. We are seeing an evolving market, right, where we continue to see a good volume growth from an NLD perspective. Of course, it's a very, very price-sensitive market, so we do see dynamics in terms of playing out and which is not reflected in our top line. But as we see certain stability or come back on the pricing, we should see the growth momentum also building up. That was more from an NLD perspective.
International business, especially ILD continues to get impacted and, hence, if you see our enterprise business overall was a little somber. But on a positive side, if I have to talk about OTT business continues to really do well. The contribution from 15% to the overall revenue has moved to 23%. All the channels, whether it be WhatsApp, RCS and anything that I missed is doing phenomenally well. RCS has seen a 4x of growth. We were recently awarded as RCS Growth Partner of the Year Award. And WhatsApp has also shown a good resilience despite the pricing correction that we saw from last quarter, where we have a full quarter impact this quarter. We see a good growth momentum buildup as well in that.
So overall, I would say it's an evolving market. It's very difficult to predict for me to say when we see the industry moving out. I can only assure you that we continue to maintain the market share and our market share in terms of the volumes and in terms of penetration, both from an OTT channel continues to be robust.
Your second question was on VF International. I think we are also waiting for that D-Day. We have approached RBI and other regulatory authorities for the necessary approvals. We don't want to call out the date. But as soon as we get the approvals, we will inform to the stock exchange and to all the stakeholders.
The third question was on cash. Yes, I think we are proud to say that we had a solid run. People, both from the sales and finance and other teams supported to generate a solid cash flow this quarter. We had free cash flow of 180% of the PAT, which was highest in last few quarters. We have 2 plans. I think, a, we will continue to invest in the innovation and the talent, which is more organic investments. I think, Uday have spelled out earlier, and we continue to innovate ourselves, and we will continue to focus and continue to invest in that area.
Second, our capital allocation policy, which is 30% return to our shareholders continues. We have declared an interim dividend of INR 6 per share, which should be credited soon. And third, we will continue to look for an asset, whether it be organic, inorganic investments. We'll continue to look for an opportunity. So those are the 3, I would say, 3 areas where we'll continue to invest.
[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Sharad Kohli with -- who is an investor.
I have a few questions here. The first one is, you guys talked about OTT volumes going up, but unfortunately, there's like almost a fight to the bottom, right? So we have the telcos that are now getting into the space. Well, Bharti has been there for a while. They've been facing now competition from the OTT guys and OTT guys are cutting their prices. So unfortunately, we are price takers, right? So what is your perspective in terms of when does the bleeding stop, right? Because I don't see an end to this, right? And so that's my first question.
And let me be more specific on that question. Like where would you see a trigger point where the OTT players -- because to me, it's such a -- when you look at a player like WhatsApp, it is such a small market for them in terms of the overall business that they do globally, right? So when I look at this whole market, I don't see like why would they stop at this 30% correction in pricing that they did the last quarter? Like why wouldn't they go lower to get more business in India, right? And kind of cut off Bharti's legs and stuff, right? So I'd like a more thoughtful response on that.
My second question has to do -- I know you made a comment on free cash flow. I mean it was great this quarter, but I'm guessing that's because of all the cash that was held up by VIL and now that we are no longer their clients on this front, it's 183% of PAT. But if I look at the last 2 quarters, we had recovered 40% and 46% as a percent of PAT. So we were lower than historic numbers, which were closer to 85% to 90%. So I think this is just playing catch-up.
And on that point, on the dividend versus share buyback, I think it's great that the stock has corrected, but I really think a good capital allocation, at least from a shareholder perspective. I mean, as a shareholder perspective, I end up paying 36% tax on dividends that have come, right? So I think if you look at all the players globally, who do a good capital allocation, they buy back their stock. If they think their stock is undervalued, they buy back their stock. And specifically in the case of India, if you bought back your stock, as a shareholder, I could exit the stock and pay the 20% or 15% long-term capital gains tax -- sorry, 12.5% long-term capital gains tax as opposed to paying 38% tax on dividends. And that should apply to all shareholders, including the management as well.
And finally, I had a question on the balance sheet. There was a massive increase in the platform's internally developed number, right? It went up from INR 85 crores to INR 146 crores. So basically, we are essentially capitalizing all of our expenses of development, which if you look at global platforms, they typically expense it, right? So obviously, I can make 2 arguments here, which is that I want to understand the logic of doing this every quarter because normally, there would be a balance between capitalizing everything versus expensing it. And when you capitalize something, you're kind of overstating your profits. So if you can shed light on the reason why everything is being capitalized and the number jumped up by almost INR 62 crores here in 1 quarter. So I'd like to better understand. And I know the MaaP platform came into being, and that's why this was capitalized, but I'd like to understand more the logic between capitalizing versus expensing. That's it.
Sure, sure. So let me take the question from backwards, and then I'll ask Deepak to help me answer on certain questions on market as well. So let me take your last question, right? The last question was on the balance sheet. The way to read is that we are a SaaS company, right? And you know we have 2 arms: one is Enterprise business and second is the Platform business. Enterprise business, whatever we do, as you rightly said, is not a more for long term. It is for here and now, which we are serving for our customers and none of those expenses gets capitalized, right, which is the core business or, I would say, a significant portion of the business.
Second portion of the business, which we call out as a Platform business is for future, right? So we are developing a platform, which need to be used for perpetuity -- I won't say for perpetuity, but in some sense, for a very, very long period, right? A very good example of that is the SMSC and the Trubloq that we installed in 2018, '19 is still being -- which is still being used without any major upgrades, right? So while asset, right, is being put to use now, it takes a certain time, say, maybe 6 to 9 months to develop a platform. And when we are developing a platform, any SaaS-based company, I'm sure, take it to work-in-progress. And once we go live, we capitalize this. So that has been our philosophy.
We see a big uptick in the capitalized value because MaaP, which is one of the successful RCS platform for us, has gone live. We have seen a very good uptick in the volumes. We touch 1 billion volume in a month after we go live. And hence, you see a higher capitalization that you see in our books. But we have a very clear philosophy on what to be capitalized and what not to be capitalized and very clear called out depreciation policies, which get amortized over the period and it's very clearly stated in our financials and/or relevant areas that you would like to see.
Second question was on free cash flow, right? I think it's not fair to assume VIL deal and we got a catch-up collections. I don't think so that's the right thing. We have -- this quarter, I don't think so other than the normal business that we would have done with the partner you mentioned, any catch-up we have got from a cash collections. I think I would say, yes, you're right that on a YTD basis, we -- in H1, the free cash flow percentage was less, but there is no onetime major long outstanding payment that got collected has impacted our free cash flow. We do see some kind of a little bit of seasonality, sometimes delays. And hence, even if I take on a YTD basis, it would be roughly approximately nearly 90% of our PAT, which we have delivered as a free cash flow from a full year basis, right?
The third I think we'll put the position on dividend and buyback, which is returned to shareholders. I think buyback, if I understand correctly, is not anymore same tax efficient or tax policies. I think the regulations changed mid of this year. Having said that, we do keep evaluate this every quarter with our Board, and we'll take your recommendation. We'll decide whatever Board recommends, we'll take it forward. And the first one on OTT channels, and maybe I'll help -- request Deepak to help us here. Deepak, if you're there?
Yes, yes, I'm there, Abhishek. So on OTT side, I would like to say that, yes, there is a -- WhatsApp did reduce the prices for utility messages, but they also increased the prices for promotional messages. And today, WhatsApp's more than 85% of the revenue comes from promotional and marketing messages and only 15% to 17% is coming from utility messages. So that's the split. Having said that, we should also remember that most of the utility messages or transaction messages, which are getting transacted in India today, most of them are regulated, whether it's banking or it is insurance sector or it is SEBI, the market alerts and everything. So these messages cannot be replaced by any of the OTT players.
So they are the -- the SMS is going to stay. So there's no threat from OTT channels over there. The real -- but other than the regulated message, yes, so there is a play in transaction side. And -- but there's a very big play on the marketing side and that's where we are working. So as Abhishek mentioned, it's not just about Meta, we are working very closely with Google. That's our next big thing. And we are seeing a huge growth over there. And price-wise also, it's quite competitive compared to Meta.
Customers are very happy with the kind of response they're getting and the ROI they are getting. We are building a lot of solutions around that. And we are -- currently, we are creating stickiness, not only from the back-end side of it where we have Tanla's MaaP platform deployed with the telcos, but we are also building a lot of solutions on top of it, so that we can have a huge stickiness with our enterprise customers and they see the real value over there. So if you really ask me a few months from now, we would see a huge not only growth, but our market share is also going to increase in a big way.
Can I follow up with those responses, please?
Sure.
Okay. So first thing, since I have Deepak who just responded. So Deepak, my first question to you is, in terms of marketed competitiveness, right, I know that you're saying, so my first question is the MaaP platform, is that exclusive to you guys? Like what is stopping Route Mobile or Bharti or Gupshup? Is this exclusive deployment for Tanla on the telcos' platforms? Or can those guys develop their own MaaP platform and also have their base setup with the telcos?
Uday, would you like to take this?
Yes, it's not exclusive partnership like as you rightly mentioned, Sharad. They can develop on their own and deploy. But having said that, I have not seen any telcos developing the platforms and deploying on their own.
Yes. Because I'm just looking at the word, which Deepak said, stickiness, right? It's -- for stickiness to be there, I mean, unless it's exclusive, tomorrow, like people come and undercut pricing and all that stuff.
But Sharad, stickiness more -- see, I'll tell you. Okay, let me explain. So when we talk about MaaP platform, it gives us end-to-end visibility, right? So we are in control of our -- the entire -- the messaging journey, right? So we have a full control over it. And the stickiness come when we have our solutions built over it and customers are tightly integrated to that. Let's say, for example, we are doing for a couple of metro rail, right? So once you are there, you have closed the customer. So -- and there are a lot of journeys we build, so customer is not going to move away.
I mean, we have recently Axis Bank. They were very happy, and we are building a lot of journeys for them. So they are not going to -- because it's going to be a huge task to move to someone else, right? So we are integrating a lot of such journeys, a lot of such use cases on RCS and on other OTT channels, which is going to give us huge stickiness. And as far as enterprise customers are concerned, they would see the value over it. They would -- beyond a point, they're not going to see a price, what price they're paying, they would see what ROI they're getting on those channels.
So -- okay, let me just be more direct, right? So I'm just like -- we're tracking this for -- I've been with you guys for 9 years now, right? And there's been literally no growth. The only growth that's really come from -- and I get the whole argument, volume versus pricing and all that stuff. I've been long enough in this stock and this industry globally to understand how this works, right? My only concern is that, this is typically our best quarter, and our numbers were very disappointing, right? And I understand the investments made in employees and all that stuff.
It's actually a very simple question, like what triggers are you going to look for? Or are you guys looking for, so that I have a better understanding where you say, okay, I think the bleeding is stopping. And this is more a general question. It's obviously not in your control, and I understand that. Like when do you see the industry players like stop totally like saying, okay, let's stop screwing everybody over and let's like the price stability. Do you see that in the near future? Or do you have no visibility on that?
Sharad, let me answer that in the sense that I'm also going to give a direct answer, we are not in control of the industry, okay, right? And the telcos are involved, the tech giants are involved, right? The enterprises are involved. Everybody is involved, right? We are not in control of everyone, right? So this price war happens a number of times. This is not the first time, right? So this is -- so we don't know when it's going to stop, which is not in our control. Let me be very, very clear here.
Okay. So -- but is there something which -- sorry, go on.
Your voice is cracking, Sharad. Can you come back.
Yes. But I mean, typically, you would get some sense, right, in terms of discussions either through your take rate and stuff. I mean, is there an argument to be made that you guys are delivering a certain service, right, like in terms of getting on these servicing guys, making sure the promotion is going up. Is there an argument to be made that your take rate goes up to make sure for the shortfall in pricing cut? Are you guys in a position to have that conversation with WhatsApp and other players that, hey, listen, instead of getting a 20% take rate, can we go up to 25% to kind of -- you guys are still providing a service, right? Is there enough legs there or strength you guys have to have those discussions?
So someone like WhatsApp, like the Meta, like all the decisions are not made at headquarters and also it's a global pricing policy. They're not targeting just for India or some parts of the world, right, so it's a global policy. So we don't have any preview to WhatsApp, their strategy. But having said that, like, they always come and talk to the large players like us to get the feedback, but it is up to the Meta how they're going to implement their strategy.
Okay. And just a follow-up question for Abhishek. Abhishek, out of that INR 85 crores going up to INR 146 crores, that's INR 62 crores, right? I've asked this question in the past. And your comment on SaaS platforms, that SaaS platforms do capitalize. Yes, SaaS platforms do capitalize, but they capitalize the tech part of it. So I had asked these questions about 2 years ago. What percentage of this capitalization is actual tech versus employees? What is the split?
Okay. So there are 2 things, right? One, any platform that you deploy would have, a, hardware; second, licenses; and third, employee cost would be fully integrated to develop those softwares, right, of those platforms. Now it would be unfair that we will capitalize only in hardware and the software and not the muscles behind the mind who is creating that platform. So what -- as I clearly said, the enterprise business has 0 capitalization, which is run by mainly -- which is both Karix and ValueFirst from an enterprise perspective. ValueFirst as Tanla is primarily focused more on platform and SaaS. There, only R&D team working on the platform business. Those employee costs to the extent they have deployed and working for the platforms are capitalized.
For example, any corporate support, any customer service team, those employee costs are not capitalized at all. Now you see this as a bigger number because, as I said, any platform, all platform takes a cycle of 6 to 9 months to develop and get deployed, and that's why it looks a little bit of an over number, a bigger number. But just the example that I gave right now, the very classic example of Trubloq, for example, which has been deployed for the last 6-plus years, right? And we have hardly had any major upgrade post that barring in some silos and so forth. So that's how we have to see it, frankly.
That's fine. And my last response to you on the comment you made on the buybacks. I completely disagree with you on that part. I mean I've been in this market for 25 years. I ran a fund. Buybacks are done when management thinks...
Sharad, let's allow others to ask questions.
Our next question comes from the line of Amit Chandra with HDFC Securities.
Sir, you mentioned that we have seen the impact on the ILD volumes as there has been a shift to WhatsApp. So earlier -- in earlier calls, you mentioned that most of the ILD volumes now are critical volumes and the shift has almost stagnated or it has been stabilized, but we are still seeing the shift happening. And also, if you can give some more color in terms of what proportion of the ILD volumes you still see that there's a risk of shift happening to WhatsApp?
And also if the shift happens, what kind of gross margin impact we see? Because in general, ILD is high gross margin in terms of absolute margin versus in WhatsApp, what we make is like lower absolute margin because of the pricing difference. And secondly, on the -- once we have seen scale up on the WhatsApp OTT side, but because of the pricing impact, how it has impacted the gross margins because we have seen the gross margins for the enterprise business also coming off.
Yes. So you're right, we have called out earlier that we have nearly seen the bottom of out of ILD business, but that's why we will not comment on the time line or give a revised hope. So we do believe that there's nothing further substantial left to see a further drop out of here, but it's very difficult to call out considering what we saw in the last couple of months, right? And especially, I do remember that in last quarter or Q1, I have called it out, but this is not what we see. Having said that, what is at least good in some extent is that while we see ILD volumes coming down, to some extent, getting either compensated through an OTT channel shift or through international markets, right? So we are able to maintain and sustain the overall revenue top line to a very narrow range because of our international business and also the OTT channel shift.
Second, on gross margin, if you see my gross margin has been in a narrow range, right? We still delivered 26% plus gross margin despite ILD dropping significantly year-on-year, right, and not just quarter-on-quarter. So I would say instead of getting to what the price scenario would be because even WhatsApp is evolving from the pricing point of view, their structuring point of view, I can only say that our endeavor would be to sustain at a similar level of gross margin at overall level. And I think I don't see any reason why we should significantly lose that even in the near future.
Okay. And you said that the pricing impact has been there in this quarter. So the shift of volumes from -- in terms of lower pricing is already there in the quarter. So from here on, from the next quarter onwards, we can see the volume, huge volume growth happening that is there on the WhatsApp channel, that is reflecting on the WhatsApp revenues? Or still you feel that there is a pricing risk or some kind of adjustment left on the WhatsApp side? That is first. And on the enterprise side...
Amit, your specific question? Go ahead, sorry. Go ahead.
No, no. So on the enterprise side, ex of WhatsApp, the fall has been very steep. Obviously, it has been because of the ILD decline. But this is despite the domestic volume going up, so the ILD is causing a lot of pain for us in the last 3, 4 quarters. So obviously, you guys explained that. But on the WhatsApp side, obviously, we have a lot of triggers. But what was the volume growth? If you can give some clarity on that so that we can get a picture on how the growth will pan out in the next quarter in terms of volume growth?
So I think it's very difficult to segregate this in pieces, right, Amit. I can only tell you a couple of things, right? OTT as a channel continues to really do well, right? Our share from OTT channel at 15% moved up to 20% in the first half of the year. And Q3, we are at 23% at the overall mix. I don't see any reason why between RCS and WhatsApp and other challenges within OTT, why will it not continue to grow. I think one of the growth thrust area is OTT for us, and we do strongly believe that both WhatsApp and RCS will continue to do well. It's difficult to segregate what would be the volume growth versus price and so forth.
But as we speak, we are able to create a lot of new use cases. We are able to create a lot of promotional differentiation even in various OTT channels that we are working with our customers, and we are also trying to create an agnostic platform or agnostic solution for our customers where they can hook in and choose what channel that they want to use. So I think OTT will continue to be promising, including WhatsApp. Your second -- yes, so I think that's what was your overall question. Did I miss anything, Amit?
No, no.
The next question comes from Tejas Shah with Laser Securities.
Just wanted to understand, we are always trying to -- if we see the presentations, we are always saying, if we had Vodafone, then the business would have grown 18%. Now the Vodafone, I think we've lost that client, correct?
Yes, that's correct. Yes, just to clarify, Tejas. While, yes, you're right, Vodafone revenue, which was the VIL firewall deal, let's not club entire Vodafone because we still continue our strong relationship. But the firewall deal that we lost do not have revenue base both in quarter 2 and quarter 3, which means quarter-on-quarter, there's no impact of it.
Having said that, Q3, which was the same quarter last year, we did have INR 14 crores, INR 15 crores worth of business with them. And hence, to do a right comparative reflection, we do call out that number saying, if I keep X of Vodafone, our growth rate would have been this. Now of course, I do understand investor sentiment that that's fact of the matter. Vodafone is no more associated from a deal perspective. But just to bring a clarity to our investors and to shareholders, it becomes important for us to disclose.
Okay. And do we see our margins going up again or this will take around 2 or 3 quarters more?
The gross margin, if you see, had been in the narrow range. If I see last 12 quarters, we have been in the range of 25% to 26.9%, right? So we have been in that bucket of 25% to 27%, I would say. I don't see -- I do believe that while I don't give a forward guidance, just to reflect on it that we believe we should be in a narrow range from a gross margin perspective. When it comes to PAT and indirect costs, if you see this time, we were significantly impacted by a onetime ForEx loss, which is the euro currency depreciating significantly. We believe -- and if I go back for a longer period, the ForEx has neutralized over the period of last 4 quarters prior to Q3. So I think those impacts -- the ForEx impact at least should not be there next quarter is what we believe. And that was to the tune of INR 4.5 crores to INR 5 crores.
Okay. And any -- I think normally, the third quarter is the best quarter that, as a company, we get. So going forward, is there any chance of increasing the top line somehow wherein -- because it's been stagnant, top line has been stagnant, either we are losing some customers, gaining some customers, but then we are not moving anywhere in terms of the top line.
No, no. I think, Tejas, I would say that the whole discussion with leadership and the management on the ground, I think, we live, breathe, and work only on grow, which is growth. I appreciate your feedback, but I can only say that the almighty and all minds are behind saying how do we grow, whether through platform, through OTT channels, through global expansions and so forth. So our endeavor would be to continue to push while -- yes, while external challenges are there, our endeavor would be to continue to put through all 3 levers to ensure that we come back to the growth.
And if you can throw some light on the, I think, gaming? What -- have you sold some subsidiary? If you can throw some light on that. Gamooga, I think...
Okay. No, no, I don't think so we have sold it. It's just a change of ownership. I think we believe -- one second. So I think what we believe is that Gamooga best fits with Karix in terms of what we deliver and what we serve to our customers. And hence, from a synergy perspective, we are just merging it with Karix. So just -- it continues to be our own company, our own platform and tool. It's just that it's changing hat from Tanla platform to Karix, our own 100% entity.
The next question comes from [ Ashish Gupta from AG Capital ].
Sir, I have a very quick question. One is regarding the platform side business. So we are seeing from last few quarters, we are growing somewhere around 15% to 16%. So I wanted to understand your -- like some color on whether this growth will be sustainable for 2 to 5 years? Or do you think that it will be tapered off or we can do better than this? That's my first question.
So Ashish, we don't guide, but I can only tell you that platform is one of the growth area where we continue to focus. We had 2 old platforms, Trubloq, SMSC, which have been consistently doing well. We launched ATP. We had won a couple of customers there. We have launched MaaP and we have touched $1 billion -- 1 billion volume last quarter in a month. So I would say we'll continue to focus on our platform. That is an opportunistic area for us for future growth. It would be hard for me to put out a number in terms of what would be a growth rate that would be there in near and long-term future.
Yes, sir. No, sir. No problem. So I just wanted some sense that, okay, we could sustain this or do better, but I got your point. Second thing, sir, I wanted to understand on the enterprise side of the business and not from our company, but from an industry standpoint, for next 2 to 5 years, sir, what is the projected growth rate of that overall industry? If you could shed some light on that, maybe because you would have access to a lot of research reports. So I wanted to -- a sense of how the overall pie will grow. Is it like 5%, 10%, something like that?
See, I think, it is a little bit dynamic in my view. If I keep the pricing aside for the second, I think in my view, NLD, which is the local SMS business should grow at a lower double digit in all sense. But when it comes to platform and OTT, it should definitely continue to grow at a double digit without any second thought about it, right? So that's how we see. I think if you ask me overall industry was primarily impacted by ILD and SMS volume continue to do well. There definitely was a price sensitivity, which we called out earlier. As soon as we see some normalization there, I think we should see a good growth in the TAM from an overall industry perspective.
Understood. And last question, sir, on the -- so assuming the -- there is no new platform-related employee cost. So sir, do you think that there is a wage inflation could be somewhere around 10% for next 2 to 5 years? Or do you think that this could be lower?
I think it's difficult to call out at this stage, right? I'm saying, for example, we are known for our innovation. So we cannot keep our hand tight saying we'll not innovate anymore, right? So we'll take this question. We'll keep you posted if we see an opportunity for future, what we are working on, so we'll keep our investors and stakeholders updated about it. But it's very difficult to give a very hard number saying we'll grow -- the wage will grow or not grow by this percentage.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone. That was the last question for today. In case we could not take your questions due to time constraints, please reach out to our Investor Relations team. Good evening.
Thank you. On behalf of Tanla Platforms Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.