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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Earnings Conference Call of Aditya Birla Real Estate hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Harsh Pathak from Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Henrik. Good morning, everyone. On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services, I welcome you all to the Q4 and Full Year FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Aditya Birla Real Estate. I would like to welcome the management and thank them for this opportunity. We have with us today Mr. R. K. Dalmia, Managing Director; Mr. K. T. Jithendran, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Birla Estates; and Mr. Snehal Shah, Chief Financial Officer.
I shall now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Over to you, gentlemen.
I'm R. K. Dalmia. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and financial year ending 2025. As you all know, at Aditya Birla Real Estate, we have been on a journey of streamlining our company to build one of the India's largest estate player. And in that context, financial year '25 has been a landmark year. This year, the company has taken further steps to reorganize its businesses while delivering superlative growth in its core real estate segment. The Board has also approved divestment of its Pulp and Paper business, which further sharpens balance sheet and management focus towards real estate and will lead to long-term value creation.
I'm sure you must have gone through the financial performance, so I can directly move to highlight our real estate business. The real estate -- the Indian real estate market continue to demonstrate resilience and steady growth, supported by stable macroeconomic environment, rising urbanization and evolving lifestyle aspiration. Projects with right products, right location and trusted brand names are continuing to witness healthy traction. In parallel, there is a growing emphasis on sustainability and innovation. Green building practices, energy-efficient design and smart infrastructure are increasingly influencing both buyer preference and regulatory frameworks. These are all parameters that we have built in our business model and portfolio apart from being guided by strong return guardrails.
In Q4 '25 -- financial '25, the real estate business performed exceptionally well with stellar sales at our 3 new projects and 2 new phases launched across NCR, Bengaluru and Pune regions. Booking value doubled on the year to INR 5,738 crores. Collection too grew by more than 100% to INR 1,073 crores. For full year financial year '25, the booking value more than doubled to INR 8,087 crores on the back of our 7 project phase launches. Our collection increased by 100% year-on-year to INR 2,706 crores.
The number of units sold and area sold per square feet grew by 3x versus financial year '24. The revenue for the year grew by 11% year-on-year to INR 1,157 crores. Added projects having GDV of more than INR 25,000 crores, taking the total GDV of company close to INR 70,000 crores. These numbers speak to our strong business momentum and trust our customers, partners, stakeholders have placed in us. Importantly, the Birla brand has been a key success factor in our accelerated journey. This year, we have also elevated brand visibility like never before. As a principal sponsor of Royal Challengers Bengaluru in IPL 2025, we took the Birla Estates brand into millions of homes. The impact was both emotional and strategic, amplifying our reach and deepening our brand connect.
In other updates, we have raised USD 33 million with Mitsubishi Estate Company for the development of Birla Evara, Bengaluru. This joint venture is strong vote of confidence from one of the largest, most respected global real estate business investor. We will explore such opportunity going forward. Building on all these levers, we also strive to achieve over INR 15,000 crores in next few years in annual presales.
And in the backdrop of such strong business execution, we are equally proud to have also been conferred the prestigious Golden Peacock National Quality Award for the year 2025, becoming the first real estate company to be honored in the last 6 years. As we look ahead, we are gearing up for the next stage of growth. We are exploring the redevelopment space in a meaningful way, which we believe can unlock asset-light deals for us. We are also exploring expansion of our commercial real estate portfolio, which opens new annuity income streams and bring us closer to our vision of being a holistic real estate platform. Given all the factors I've just listed, I believe our real estate business is very well positioned for sustained and high-quality growth ahead.
Now, moving on Paper segment. As mentioned earlier, Board of Directors of ABREL approved the divestment of the Paper business through Business Transfer Agreement envisaging a slump sale to ITC subject to consideration of INR 3,498 crores, subject to achievement of certain conditions precedent. We expect the divestment process to conclude by Q2 financial year '26.
With that, I will now conclude our opening remarks, and we can start the question-and-answer session. Thank you, gentlemen.
[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Karan Khanna from AMBIT Capital.
Congrats team on the strong growth in sales, launches... Hello. Am I audible? Hello? Yes, am I audible? Hello?
Since there's no response from the participant, we will move to the next participant. The next question comes from the line of Akash Gupta from Nomura.
Am I audible? Hello? Am I audible? So congratulations on the great quarter. Sir, actually, I had a couple of questions...
Since there are no response we'll move to the next participant that is -- the next question comes from the line of Amit Srivastava from B&K Securities.
Am I audible?
There is a problem in your line, boss. It looks like this.
Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, please stay online. We will see if there is an issue and we will get back to you.
[Audio Gap]
The next question comes from the line of Amit Srivastava.
Congratulations on good set of numbers. Am I audible?
Yes.
Sir, congratulations on a very good set of numbers in terms of presales the way we have achieved during the year FY '25. So now I just want to take it forward for the next year, how are we looking at the presales number? And given the context, we are planning to launch around INR 14,000 crores of GDV across 8, 9 projects during FY '26. So if you can give the sequencing also that how these projects are going to be launched over the next fiscal year? And what would be the guidance for presales, as well as the project addition for FY '26?
Yes. Thank you, Amit, for your question. So, as we mentioned, we are planning to launch around INR 14,000 crores of new launch spaces or new projects. Largely, this is stacked up in Q3 and Q4, then there may be a couple of launches we are trying to get into Q2. But since it is all largely skewed towards the latter half of the year, I hesitate to hazard a guess on the guidance number for this year. What we are largely looking at is on a more 3-year plan in which we -- our aim is to reach around INR 15,000 crores in about 3 years' time. I think I'll be more confident talking about a larger horizon of time rather than giving you a very short-term annual guidance because of the reason that so many factors are there and launches are all stacked towards the later part of the year.
So, I would say, that we will continue to grow in a phased manner, but it could go up and down. So I'm largely focusing on a 3-year plan in which I think by the end of the third year, we should be having an annual sales of more than INR 15,000 crores per annum. I mean, almost like doubling from what we did last year.
Sure, sir. And sir, in terms of the projects which we launched in -- 2 large projects which we launched during the Q4, 1 is in Birla, in Gurgaon and second is in Bangalore. So Gurgaon has got a very strong response. We have managed to sell everything, whereas the Bangalore project response was slightly lower. So can you give us to understand that what was the key reason on a different market responses? Is the market is slower, market is professionally better? If you can elaborate on that side?
What happened in NCR was truly exceptional. Nobody thought in a short period of time of 15 days, we could have kind of cracked 3,000-plus booking in such a short period of time. So that was really exceptional. What happened in Bengaluru in Sarjapur is also in my -- it's a very remarkable performance in my view because this has been the highest launch for us in Bangalore. Nowhere in such a short period, we have clocked INR 850 crores plus. All our previous launches, the cases were small. So we did INR 500 crores or we did INR 550 crores, et cetera. But this has been a humongous launch. We crossed INR 850 crores plus. So from our point of view, I think this has been a very, very successful launch. The time allowed was just about a week there. So that was the reason. So I mean, that is, if you may say, that it could not reach what was like INR 3,000 crores or something like that. But I think it was also a very, very strong response. We almost launched tag end of the quarter.
Sorry, yes, Amit, did I stop you?
No, no. I was just asking that there is no problem with the demand as such the demand is slowing down...
Amit, demand continues to be very strong. I've always maintained at the right pricing, right location and combination of right brand, right design, right sizing. I think the market continues to have a massive hunger or demand for such kind of products.
Okay. And sir, 1 more question related to our cash flow. See, how would be the cash flow positioning for the upcoming year considering that what -- like we have done a deal of exiting the Paper business. So that cash flow taking cognizance, as well as the project collection and versus the planned CapEx on a construction spend. If you can highlight on the cash flow position?
Amit, Snehal here. Amit, see, our current consolidated debt stands at INR 3,575 crores. And roughly, our net worth is around INR 3,900 crores. So the debt and EBITDA -- equity is around 0.92. Now post the Paper business divestment cash flow coming in, we will have to actually repay close to around INR 2,000 crores of debt, which is kind of tied in some way or the other, the assets of the Paper business. So the balance that comes will be held in treasury to earmark for the future growth of -- growth capital of RE business. So thereafter, we will, of course, be having cash flows for -- from the collections, but I assume that also would be eaten up with against the construction costs. So major requirement is only for growth capital. And therefore, this balance amount remaining from the Paper business will be used. And if exhausted, we will probably go for fresh borrowing because our leverage would have improved a lot.
So just a clarification, sir. So INR 3,500 crores net...
I'm sorry to interrupt, Amit, if you have any further questions, could you please rejoin the queue?
No, I just wanted a clarification on this cash flow.
No, it's fine because I think most of the others would be also having this question. So, Amit, please go ahead.
Yes. So basically, sir, this INR 2,000 crores Paper debt is included in our net debt of INR 3,500 crores or no?
Yes, yes, it is included. That's what I'm saying, [Foreign Language] roughly if you are calculating coming from the Paper sale, INR 2,000 crores, [ INR 1,500 crores ] goes. So around INR 1,200-odd crores will be available to us as in our treasury to pay for any growth that happens in the real estate business. But if it falls short, we'll go for fresh borrowings.
Okay. And in terms of the collection versus construction spend, sir, for this year, FY '26, if you have?
Sorry, Amit, what's the question?
So how much is the projected collection in FY '26 versus construction spend?
Construction spend, yes. So we had a very healthy collection of almost INR 2,706 crores. Construction spend was, what, we had INR 500 crores of supply, about INR 1,600 crores construction.
Okay. If you can give it for the FY '26 also, sir, what is the projection if you have?
So as I mentioned, we all know that this is largely dependent on sales. And since I'm not giving a number for sales, I don't want to hazard a guess, but I can assure you that it will be a very, very healthy and strong growth in collections also based -- largely based on our bookings so far and the progress we are making on construction.
The next question comes from the line of Karan Khanna from AMBIT Capital.
Am I audible?
Yes, Karan, you are audible.
Sure, K. T. So firstly, K. T., if you can give some qualitative thoughts on the footfalls, conversions and the bookings that you're seeing in this quarter? And specifically on Niyaara, can you please share the number of units that were sold last quarter?
And as a follow-up, what is the outlook going into FY '26? Are you still looking at year-end launch for Phase 3? Or will you look to move it to third quarter?
Yes. So first of all, as Niyaara is concerned, we all know that we have launched 2 towers. The first tower, we have sold 401 apartment out of the 414. So it's almost a case of -- there's hardly any inventory left. And in Tower B, we sold 96 out of 148. We had a very strong last quarter. We did about 9 or 10 apartments in the last quarter. We did -- so we are at 96. So I think the demand remains steady. Despite that, most of our very prime inventory is sold, the demand remains steady. And we are very excited and looking forward to our launch of the third tower. Most likely, this will happen in Q3 end or Q4, early Q4.
And in one of the slides, K. T., you have mentioned that your Birla Vanya is the only project that is expected to be delivered this financial year. Given the kind of growth and the business development that you've done in the last few years, will FY '26, the focus be towards more of BD and launches? Or will you shift gears and focus towards execution of the existing projects?
Thank you, Karan, for this question. So let me tell you that our focus always has been and will continue to be on execution. I think good BD and sales happen on the back of very strong execution. We have delivered 3 projects so far. One is that, Birla Vanya in Kalyan, Birla Alokya in Bengaluru and the first phase of Birla Navya in NCR. All these phases have been delivered within the RERA -- well within the RERA time line and has been very well appreciated with a very strong NPS scores. It only happens -- so happens that the timing of it is not -- it's not happening now. I mean -- sorry, Alokya and Navya, both NCR and this thing projects have been completed and largely delivered and profits booked. Vanya, we have some flats yet to be sold and which -- for that, our income recognition will come in for that residual part of this year. And some part of the customers are not paid fully. There is some more than 80% -- more than 20% to be paid, that kind of will come this year.
We had not scheduled for any kind of handovers this year. There will be some type of -- there will be a modicum of handovers from Birla Tisya and a new phase of Navya coming up in the next financial year. And I think largely, the big delivery will be of Niyaara Tower 1 in FY '28. So just because there is no delivery in a particular year doesn't mean that focus is not there. If we have mentioned in Mr. Dalmiaji's speech, we have got the Golden Peacock Award for Quality Systems, the only real estate company in the last several years, we have been conferred upon that as a company. So that speaks well about our execution, quality, time lines, everything we're extremely focused on. We are also very proud to say that we have met all of our budget costs during this period of time. So I don't think there has been any lack of focus. In fact, there has been extreme focus for us has been execution. Execution and design has been our focus.
Sorry, I interrupted you. Yes.
Yes. No, I think this is helpful. My second question on Bangalore. Given you've exhausted most of the launches here, barring Trimaya Phase 4, which is expected this fiscal year. What are the expectations on business development in this market for FY '26? And any guidance on FY '26 business development that you'd like to share overall?
Yes. So I think we are totally focused on continuing to build our GDV bank because as our sales, as you have mentioned, have been very strong, and we have a very strong pipeline of launches lined up for this year. So I think our focus will continue to be in BD. Last year, we did added a GDV worth about INR 25,000 crores. This year, we're looking at least about INR 15,000 crores to INR 20,000 crores, new GDVs, new BD to be added. And it will be focused in all markets, wherever we get the right deals, be it Bangaluru, be it NCR, be it Bombay or Pune. Our focus is in all these 4 markets, yes, equally.
And last question on Noida Sector 150, any development post the intervention by regulatory authorities? And do you see this project getting added to your portfolio in the next 4 or 5 years given the complications that are associated with it?
Looks a little dicey because it has not made much progress from where we had -- during the time we have signed, it's still hanging in balance. So it's 50-50. I am not too confident about concluding this deal. The agreement expires in some time later this month. So we'll have to evaluate it in a fresh manner.
The next question comes from the line of Akash Gupta from Nomura.
Am I audible?
Yes, Akash.
Perfect. Sir, my question was -- first question was on the Niyaara Tower launch. So there is Godrej coming up and then there is also Prestige. So I just wanted to understand your plans for the Niyaara third phase. Like how will this tower be different from the first 2 phases? Are you planning to change the dimensions or everything? That's my first question, sir.
Okay. So, Akash, yes, the competition has heated up in this region. There are a lot of very high-end apartments coming around in this micro market. However, our traction, as I mentioned a little earlier, has been very strong for Tower B. But it's always good to bring in something new. So we are still in -- not in a position to disclose that, but we are bringing in a changed format for Tower C.
Okay. Okay. And my second question is respect to the Mathura Road project also. So what is the status of that project?
And my third question is with respect to Sarjapur. So we launched that in the fag end of the quarter. So can we expect the balance Sarjapur sales in this quarter of the financial year?
Okay. About the India Hume Pipes project, Mathura Road project in Delhi, unfortunately, it is still stuck in the approval stage. We've not been able to make much progress there. We need a standing committee to be appointed and the project to be cleared by that. We were hopeful with the new formation of the new government, this will speed up. Unfortunately, it has not happened. We have not taken it in this year's launch calendar also, but we are trying our level best to sort of get it going.
The good part is that, because being a JV, there is not much capital locked in it, hardly anything. However, our efforts are full on to -- because we think it's a very attractive and very strong market. And all efforts are going on to circumvent the challenge that we are facing. So that's about India Hume Pipes project.
Sarjapur, yes, we are -- it has launched at the fag end, and we are expecting sales continues to happen. The only thing is that, the new phase, the team, the challenge, the channel partners recoup is happening at the beginning of the new quarter. But I think the sales continues to happen, and we expect a reasonable amount of traction continuing in this project.
The next question comes from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Axis Capital.
First question, continuing on this Sarjapur. So it mentions that we have launched it fully, but it seems like we didn't open much of inventory. So just wanted to understand how much we opened to have this INR 860-odd crores kind of a sales there? And yes, I mean, you can answer that and probably then I'll take my second question.
Yes. I think barring 3 towers, we have opened 4 towers at the beginning to just focus on that because time period was very short. So right now, we are focusing on those. And once we get reasonable volumes there, we will expand into the other -- open up the other towers also.
And 4 towers would have value in terms of GDV of INR 4,000 crores or more than that?
Yes. I think I don't have that number here. We can take it -- I think about INR 1,500 crores, how much? Yes, I think closer to INR 1,500 crores, but I'll have to come back to you. Maybe we can give you those numbers off-line. The first 4 towers in Sarjapur.
Okay. And just trying to understand the cash flow details that you have given in Slide 34. So we did a project development cost of around INR 6,000-plus crores. And you mentioned earlier that INR 1,600 crores is what we spent for construction. So rest is the FSI purchase that we did. That's the right understanding?
So it includes BD and it includes...
I think major one other than construction finance, it includes BD of -- BD cost of the projects that we have acquired. A significant part of that, about close to INR 1,300 crores is towards the Worli acquisition, 10 acres of Worli acquisitions. And we can give you a breakup of the other costs.
K. T., do we have the other costs other than project or something?
Yes.
Yes. Roughly, that is the way. Rest is -- I mean, INR 2,000 crores plus, what you call it, construction -- how much we spent on construction?
INR 1,600 crores is what you mentioned.
INR 1,600 crores plus INR 1,300 crores. So that is close to INR 3,000 crores, right? And balance INR 3,000 crores is for the other projects that we have acquired.
Okay. Okay. So basically, it also includes the BD cost that...
Yes.
That's what I wanted to understand. Okay. And just 1 last on the launches slide, you have given GDV estimate of INR 26,000 crores. This, I suppose, also includes the inventory which is there in the project or INR 14,000 crores is all new projects that we are looking to launch?
So INR 14,000 crores is the new launches plus the sustenance inventory is also there. This is just the new ones we are bringing to the market.
The next question comes from the line of Hitesh Doshi from Nirzar Securities.
Congratulations on great sales numbers. Yes. So my question is what is the sustenance inventory as K. T. said just...
Roughly about INR 6,000 crores, Hitesh Bhai.
INR 6,000 crores?
Yes. INR 6,700 crores.
INR 6,700 crores.
So in a way, you will make projects available worth INR 20,000 crores in the entire next 12 months, right?
Yes.
Okay. And how far we are from receiving money from the ITC deal or there are -- or there may be some negative surprise over there?
We don't expect any negative surprise as of today, Hitesh Bhai. We expect the closure to happen somewhere by end of July and maybe at the most a month or so for -- if it happens in July, then a month or so to receive the money. So hopefully, in August, we should be closed. So there can be no negative surprises other than maybe slight delay in the closure of the deal.
Okay. And just -- I mean, we have INR 20,000 crores worth of goods to be sold in current year, which will be launch plus inventory. So we should be hopeful of at least crossing what we had done last year.
No comments, Hitesh Bhai.
The next question comes from the line of Dixit Doshi from Whitestone Financial Advisors.
Sir, my first question is, in our earlier interactions, in some of the calls, you have mentioned that the Worli project, the cost of construction is around INR 20,000 a square feet. And broadly -- so I wanted to confirm this is on a saleable area you mentioned or it is on a carpet basis?
So I have always mentioned costs on saleable areas. Yes. I said in the region of about INR 25,000, starts INR 20,000. It may go up by the finished project gets included into about INR 20,000, INR 25,000.
Okay. So INR 25,000 approx. cost on saleable, wherein the realization would be around INR 80,000?
No. I said -- see, I think what I have said always is that, by the time we complete this construction over the next 6, 7, 8 years, we would achieve an average price over INR 50,000 and a cost approximately about INR 25,000 maybe including all inflation. So we should close to INR 50,000 -- INR 45,000 to INR 50,000 margin. That's what I maintained.
And when we say this INR 25,000 cost, so entire cost, this will include marketing and everything. So this entire cost will come when the revenue recognition will happen or some of these cost is even recorded currently because we are showing losses in the current quarter?
So, Dixit, what happens is, there is certain cost -- of course, a significant cost is always put in work in progress, but there are certain launch costs, launches costs, advertising costs, et cetera, et cetera, which we incur during the year for all the launches. So those costs gets written off in the P&L account. So you will see a large portion because we had a lot of launches in this year, particularly in the last quarter. So therefore, we had a significant amount of expenses which we had to charge to the P&L account. And that is one of the reasons why we have a little softer EBITDA margin. So all these recurring -- I mean, launch costs, et cetera, those things are written off in the P&L.
Okay. And 1 last question. We have given 9 projects for FY '26 planned launches. If you can give a GDV-wise the different projects?
So I think I can name which are the projects. GDV project-wise will take a lot of time. We can do it off-line. We are doing a new phase of Birla Trimaya, I mean, fourth phase. In Mumbai, we are going to do the first phase for our Thane project, which has signed with Hindalco. New tower in Birla Niyaara, we are planning to launch. We signed a large project plotted development in Boisar near Mumbai, which also we are planning to launch.
We are planning to launch 2 phases in Pune, Birla Pune, which we launched the first phase in March. We are hoping to launch 2 more phases there. Then the other project in Pune, which is located in Manjri, we are planning to launch that, too. So there will be 3 launches in Pune.
In NCR, Arika Phase 1 is literally sold out. So now we are gearing up to launch the next phase of Arika. And the new project which we had signed last year in Gurgaon, which is Sector 71, that also we are planning to launch.
Okay. And recently, there was some regulation regarding the NGT approval. So they have mentioned that around the Vikhroli-Thane area, the NGT will require -- I mean, the environment clearance will be required from central government. So can that impact our Thane project?
Yes, yes. Our projects, we have applied to central government. Our project has come under that. That's why it has got little impact. Otherwise, we would have planning to launch it last financial year. So it is -- we have applied to Delhi for our clearance.
The next question comes from the line of Sidhant Chhabra from [ Minerva Asset Advisors ].
Am I audible?
Yes, you are audible.
My question is, I know that we have divested the Paper and Pulp business, but I just have a small question on some intricacies there. Firstly is regarding the wood price. I've seen that in the presentation, there has been a decline by 6% quarter-on-quarter and as well Y-o-Y. So what is the kind of expectation? I know that we have divested it, but some kind of expectation of this price going forward, maybe over the next 6 to 12 months?
So right now, we -- particularly on the Pulp and Paper business in terms of input price, as well as imported pulp price, we expect it to stabilize, but we don't expect it to come down drastically.
So any range you could provide possibly what your expectation would be from here?
It will be difficult to provide a range at the moment because you see the markets, they are all volatile. So it's very difficult to predict right now. So we only -- what we can only do is keep a close watch. And if there's a significant change, we can look at the market correction of our realization.
Okay. So we are expecting some further downward movement in input prices like wood and pulp?
Yes.
Okay. And secondly, I wanted to ask regarding the market outlook that you've written in the investor presentation, there is increased competitive intensity from Indonesia and Thailand. So this would be in board and tissue or it could be in the uncoated paper as well?
Mostly in board.
Okay. This is mostly in board. And is this expected to -- in your understanding, this is expected to continue to be a factor throughout the year going forward? Or is this maybe a short-term kind of headwind?
It's expected to continue. We are talking -- the association is talking to the government to have some sort of a minimum import price and what you call it, given the antidumping, et cetera. So let's see how that progresses.
Right. I just had 1 small thing. It's a data point that I would need. So maybe I could reach out to you post the call. But I just wanted to know in terms of the input price by area, what the kind of wood price would be by area? So, I mean, if you would not have it now, I could possibly reach out to you after the call is done.
Yes, please reach out.
The next question comes from the line of Amit Agicha from HG Hawa.
Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Congratulations, sir, for blockbuster sales. Sir, my question was with regarding to the Mitsubishi tie-up, like you have raised INR 275 crores. So it's a JV or like a loan taken from them?
No, it's not a loan. It's an equity participation by them.
So what would be our share?
So 50-50, 51-49, 51 is ours, 49. So it's like a platform -- it's not a platform. It's a project level equity -- investment equity participation. Structuring is done in a certain way, but actually, it's a 51-49 and we get 6% DM fee. 8% DM fee, yes.
And sir, 1 more question about like can you share some outlook on EBITDA margins for FY '26?
FY '26, there are no -- there's no handover happening up. So there will not be too much emphasis on EBITDA. Collections are going to be strong. Sales we are focusing on, but the bulk of the EBITDA will happen in the future years. We don't expect much of EBITDA because of the way the project completion method booking is -- accounting is done. We don't expect too much of EBITDA to come in, in FY '26.
[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Biplab Debbarma from Antique Stockbroking.
My first question is on -- regarding the Pune projects. So Pune is a new market to us. So my understanding is, we have launched the first phase in Pune of around INR 400 crores. So how is the response? And how is the Pune market when you compare to, say, Bangalore and Mumbai and NCR market that where you have done exceedingly well? Compared to that, how is the Pune market? And how is your response regarding the first phase of Pune launch?
Thank you, Biplab. So, again, the story of the last quarter has been that most of the launches were stacked up towards the end of the year. Of the INR 400 crores limited inventory that we launched because of certain approval changes, which happened in the Pune development rules, we could launch only INR 400 crores, but we sold 75% of that inventory. So it has been a very, very strong response for us. And we continue to expect that kind of response in our upcoming launches in Pune.
And about the market, sir?
Market is very strong, holding very strong. I think it's a very resilient market, very strong demand, much like the Bangalore market. It is the third largest market in India, and we are very bullish about the market.
And second question is on the deals. I'm sure you are getting a lot of deals and for using all the deals, analyzing all the deals. But if you could give us some insight in terms of deals in the next few quarters, do we expect a few large deals or something that can be closed?
Yes. I mean, at any point of time, we have a certain amount of term sheets signed, and we are looking at converting them. We are also attempting to convert something this quarter, lots of them in the coming quarters. We are also now largely focused on getting the redevelopment deals in Mumbai. We are making good progress there. Hopefully, either in this quarter or maybe next quarter, we'll be able to announce our first successful -- I'm hoping to do that. Yes. So I'm expecting maybe -- we may do something this quarter or it may spill over to the next quarter. But I think we have a healthy pipeline, and we expect to close some good deals very soon.
Sir, third question and final question. Since you broach the topic of redevelopment, see, most of the Mumbai developers, all the reputed developers, most of them are focusing -- they are also focusing on redevelopment projects. So do you see a lot of supply from redevelopment project itself? Or there will be stiff competition in redevelopment projects amongst the Grade A developers? How is the redevelopment market? Is it really happening at a faster pace?
I think South Mumbai is really opening up because of the infrastructure development and connectivity, which has substantially improved towards that area. There is increased competition in that market. Top developers are all aiming to do that. However, I feel there is enough room because the size of these are relatively much smaller. So the inventory which will come out of each of them will be limited. But I think one can play -- one can create a strong market share positioning there and then trust plays a very significant factor. So I think we definitely have an edge over there. And that's what we are seeing also. We are experiencing that. Our brand works very well. Brand equity works very well in that segment.
[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Amit Srivastava from B&K Securities.
Sir, just 1 clarification just looking for. You had mentioned that Birla Niyaara, the first traffic cost would be around INR 20,000, INR 25,000. So just wanted to understand that what are the costs we are including in that for that INR 20,000, INR 25,000?
All costs. We're including all the costs. The development cost, cost of land, cost of premium FSI, overheads, marketing and sales costs, of course, the construction cost, approval costs, design costs, overheads, inflation, material inflation, all of that.
Okay. Got it. Sir, next is in terms of 1 clarification related to our provision, which we have done for around INR 114 crores for our JV Birla Advanced Knits Private Limited. So considering that we have an equity investment of only INR 25 crores in that business, and we have recently commissioned that project. So what is this pertains to these liabilities of more than that? It is operational liability or any other item which we have done?
Yes. So basically, the JV which we had, that JV was depended a lot on the -- our existing textile business, which used to supply yarn to it, as well as certain utilities were shared. But post closing of our textile divisions, it became unviable for the JV also to continue. So we have to now, therefore, decided to close -- I mean, sell the JV away. And we right now have estimated its liabilities to be in the region of close to around INR 228 crores, et cetera. So both the partners will be contributing equally to that particular liability. Also, we already have INR 50 crores of capital. So we'll have to invest another INR 89 crores each into the JV. So that particular INR 89 crores is what we are considering as a provision. We have already accounted for a loss of about INR 8 crores to INR 9 crores in the first quarter. So the net amount that we have to provide is about INR 81 crores.
And the second -- so if you see the number of INR 124 crores, so INR 81 crores is this and the next INR 43 crores is with respect to the carrying cost we had of the property, the Worli lease land, which is now, as per the Supreme Court, it's -- we have handed it over to the BMC. So we have to write-off that particular carrying cost of that particular property. So these are the 2 major exceptional items. So INR 81 crores plus INR 43 crores is INR 124 crores is what we have provided. Hope that helps.
The next question comes from the line of Akash Gupta from Nomura.
Sir, with respect to our launch guidance of INR 140 billion, sir, do you think there is any downside risk to this launch guidance? For example, we are waiting for central government approval for that Thane project. So my first question is how confident are we of this INR 140 billion launch guidance?
Akash, see, we are -- at this point of time, we are very confident and quite positive. All of this is going to happen as we have planned it. But seeing approvals, things do drop up and this may get more jacked up towards the last quarter. There may -- theoretically some of them may get spilled over to the Q1. As of this -- as of today, there has been no such sign. But in approval thing, you can now be totally, totally be assured it will happen in time. Everything is progressing as on plan as of today. So we expect all of them and we are fairly confident, but it's possible that some of them may -- 1 or 2 of them may got spilled over to the following quarter of the next year.
Having said that, Akash, I wanted to do 1 clarification. Akash and Pritesh, both of you had asked for about Sarjapur, how much we launched, et cetera. So I've said 4 towers, but actually, it's 4 blocks which have launched. 4 blocks -- each block is of 2 towers. So we have launched about 7 towers. And what we have balanced, we have kept for a later launch is 6 towers. Overall, it's 13 towers divided into 4 or 5 blocks. I wanted to give that clarification.
Okay. I see because in the PPT for Sarjapur, we saw that I think the entire project was launched. That's what the PPT showed for the Sarjapur project.
So, Akash, you're right, we have 1 RERA number for the entire 13 this thing, 1 RERA, we are planning to launch the whole thing. But being it -- we decided to focus more to maximize our revenue, et cetera, on the first 7 towers because of the paucity of time as the RERA came in at a very late stage.
Okay. Okay. And sir, 1 final question from my side. So what was the project level EBITDA margins for the fourth quarter revenue that we booked?
Yes, around 25% between 25% to 33% depending on various projects. I think our projects at a very high margin. So, Kalyan being where it is pricing Kalyan at a lower margin, but that's the range.
The next question comes from the line of Ronald Siyoni from ICICI Securities.
Congratulations on great set of numbers. Actually, I had a query on the business development guidance, which you had given about INR 15,000 crores to INR 20,000 crores. Does this include redevelopment projects because redevelopment projects would not need much of the capital? And another related question would be, are you being a little bit conservative considering generally around 10% land cost is there and you will have about INR 1,200-odd crores to invest in the coming financial year. So this BD guidance, is it conservative?
Yes. I mean, I think it's realistic. I would like to say, as I said, our approach towards new deals is a little conservative in terms of what I've always mentioned is that, we don't take any risk other than the market risk. We are very particular about location, title, access, zoning and all that. So -- and even the land prices, the micro markets we choose, the kind of competition there is. So from that point of view, we are very a little more choosy about our BD deals. This also includes the new segment that we are planning to enter, which is the redevelopment sector. Having said that, I think, yes, I mean, funding has been never a constraint. So I think we are reasonably confident that we should be able to achieve this.
And last question would be on your 3 years target of reaching INR 15,000 crores annual presales. As you are -- your overall vision is to be in the top league of the developers. And what we are currently seeing is that, local unlisted but organized players are also moving at a very fast pace and trying to cross INR 10,000 crores of presales. So how does you stack up versus organized and unorganized large players in terms of your overall vision of being in the top league?
Yes. So I think what we are talking about is almost like doubling our current booking in a short period of 3 years. So I think that stack up very well. We have been growing pretty strongly. We also have to take the cycle into consideration. We have been going through a very, very strong cycle. We have to assume that the cycle will continue in the same fashion. Market is definitely tuning more towards more organized branded corporate players who are more committed on execution and quality of delivery, timely delivery also. So I think we are very well placed, I think, and we are very well placed to take advantage of this.
And I've always mentioned that we want to grow proportionately, grow with it being most customer-centric, as well as the most reputed developer. So we won't be going too aggressive after signing new deals. We are very choosy about the deals because real estate is a multiyear cycle business. So we have to be careful about that. We have to be prudent about growth. So we'll take our time to grow. But we are very confident given the opportunity, given the brand, given the kind of skills we are building up in our team, et cetera, I think we will be on a very robust growth path.
[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of [ Sagar Shah from Fin Research ].
Since there's no response from the participant, we'll move to the next participant. The next question comes from the line of [ Isha Shah ] from Nirzar Securities.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers in NCR and Bangalore. I'm audible, sir, right? Hello?
Yes.
I'm audible, right?
You are.
Yes. Okay. So I have 2 questions. First one, in financial year '25-'26 and '26-'27, how many and which projects will be getting completed and delivered?
And second question, in financial '25, projects that we have added but not launched, how much money have we invested on our own projects and in JDA, say, the upfront investment and advance? So these are my 2 questions.
Okay. Isha, so I think I had mentioned to you about the projects which are getting completed. I think there is not much happening in '26, only the balance inventory, which is to be sold and some spillover from the last year units which are completed, but customers are not taken possession and not paid up to 80%. Those are the ones which are where we are going to recognize EBITDA for the current year, which is not very substantial. The following year, I think we will be attempting to recognize revenue for our projects in Bangalore, Birla Tisya and also for a new phase of Birla Navya. So that's in the year following this year, the next financial year.
Okay. So they will be completed and delivered?
That's right.
Okay. Okay. And for second question, sir?
Sorry, second question was? The launch, yes. So there is a list we have for project -- sorry, the projects we have added. So we have added...
Yes, but not launched. So I want to know basically, there are projects that we have added and -- but we have not launched. So how much money have we invested on our own projects and in JDA, like the upfront investment and advance that we have invested?
So Birla Arika, of course, we have launched. So I will not speak about it. That was a project which was launched -- which was acquired this financial itself, and we turned it around in less than 9 months. Manjri is the other project we launched last year, which was an outright -- deferred outright, so not even outright, deferred is a long payment schedule. I think we have paid about what INR 200 crores or something. Yes, roughly about INR 200 crores there. Boisar is on an outright project. So there, we have invested about INR 72 crores -- INR 72 crores, 1.5. So how much is that? 1.5. So yes, maybe we can get you these numbers off-line. Sector 71 was there, which is again an outright. Then Worli, the new land 10 acres we acquired, which we invested about INR 1,200 crores. Yes. Yes.
So this comes to approx. INR 1,500 crores like we would have invested upfront?
Roughly, yes, that's right.
Okay. We have invested, but -- and we have not yet launched. Okay.
The next question comes from the line of Sagar Shah from Fin Research.
Am I audible?
Yes.
Hello?
Yes, Sagar, we can hear you.
Yes. Sir, 2 things, sir. I mean, so major deliveries, is it safe to assume that major deliveries would be booked from FY '28 onwards, sir?
Yes. I mean, Worli will start from FY '28, Tower 8.
Tower 8 and would [indiscernible].
That will be a big completion -- delivery -- significant delivery milestone for us.
FY '29, sir?
'28, I said.
No, that's Tower 8. So [indiscernible] '28.
There is a gap of a year between them.
Okay. I heard your comments on redevelopment. Is it safe to understand from what you said, you are very bullish on the prospects for redevelopment in South Mumbai where your peers have been very aggressive, sir? I mean, the Walkeshwar, South Mumbai area?
That's one of our target markets, South Mumbai, Bandra, Juhu, Santacruz. These are some of our target markets.
Because I believe Walkeshwar, we have 1 project. And so that [indiscernible] Malabar Hill, I mean, also you're fairly aggressive, right, sir?
Yes, yes, yes.
So could you -- I mean, what's the outlook around that redevelopment [indiscernible].
I'm excited, and I think we'll be able to secure a few deals.
Does that answer your question, Sagar? Sagar, does that answer your question?
The next question comes from the line of Ankit Bajaj from CARE Ratings.
Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
First of all, congratulations on a strong set of sales and collections. Sir, just wanted your guidance on debt going ahead and net debt to equity, sir.
As I said, I think in the beginning, I mentioned that right now, it is about 0.92. So I think to give you an estimate of future net debt-equity would depend on when I get my payment from the sale of the real estate of the Paper business. And probably that time, as I mentioned, we would be retiring about INR 2,000 crores of debt from the amount that we received. So fully at that time, the debt would come down to about INR 1,500 crores. So that would be almost half of our -- less than half of our equity. So accordingly, the -- plus, of course, we would have cash balance. So we will technically be almost 0 debt at that particular time.
Okay. Sir, just want to understand because there are substantial projects that you'll be launching in the next -- in this current financial year. So you'll be tying up some new debt for these launches as well. So is that...
So that would -- as I said, we have -- from the INR 3,500 crores outstanding debt, we'll be repaying INR 2,000 crores of debt from the INR 3,500 crores that we received from the Paper business. So we would be -- I mean, even if you consider some capital gain, tax payment, et cetera, et cetera, we would be still having some INR 1,200 crores, INR 1,300 crores in our treasury. So that probably will be used for any acquisitions that we plan in the near future. And if we still require more amount at that time, we will be doing fresh borrowings. It all depends on how much [indiscernible] in the near future for acquisitions over and above the amount relying in our treasury from the money that we received from the sale of Paper business.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Thank you all for participating in this earnings con call. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our IR manager at Valorem Advisors. Thank you for all your interest in our company. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.