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Ceigall India Ltd
NSE:CEIGALL
Ceigall India Ltd
NSE:CEIGALL
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Earnings Call Transcript
Transcript
Other Earnings Calls
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 and 9 Months FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Ceigall India Limited. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ankit Jain from Orient Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, [ Alrick ]. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you all to the Q3 and 9 months FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Ceigall India Limited. To discuss this quarter's business performance, we have from the management, Mr. Ramneek Sehgal, Managing Director; and Mr. Bhagat Singh, Group CFO.
Before we proceed with this call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. For more details, kindly refer to the investor presentation and other filings that can be found on the company's website and stock exchanges.
Without further ado, I would like to hand over the call to the management for their opening comments, and then we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm pleased to welcome you all to the quarter 3 and the 9 months financial year '25 earnings call of India Limited. Our financial results and investor presentation have been uploaded on the exchanges. I hope you had a chance to review them. Joining with me is Mr. Bhagat Singh as group CFO.
I would like to begin by talking about the budget of '25-'26. The Finance Minister has laid out the strategic vision aimed at accelerating India's economic growth with a strong emphasis on infrastructure as a key driver for Viksit Bharat 2047. Despite global economic challenges, India remains the fastest-growing major economy with GDP growth projected 6.3% and 6.8%. This resilience highlights the strength of our economic fundamentals.
The government's commitment to infrastructure development is evident in the INR 11.2 lakh crore allocation, which marks a 10% increase over the estimated [indiscernible] for the current financial year. A new asset monetization plan is expected to unlock value from public assets while infrastructure ministries will introduce a 3-year project pipeline enabling execution under PPP model.
Additionally, the budget includes an outlay of INR 1.5 lakh crores for 50 years interest loans to states and aimed at the capital expenditure and reform incentives. The second asset monetization plan for '25 to '30 is targeting INR 10 lakh crores in capital remuneration for the new infrastructure project. The budget underscores the government's long-term vision for infrastructure-led growth, and we at Ceigall India Limited are well positioned to capitalize on these opportunities.
Now turning on to our performance. The company has delivered a healthy operating performance in quarter 3 and the first 9 months of financial year '25. With a well-diversified portfolio of EPC and HAM projects, we have not only reinforced our leadership in the highway road sector, but also successfully expanded into new areas, specialized traffic, including metros, railways, elevated roads, airport runways and tunnels.
Looking at the financials, our consolidated revenue from operations, excluding bonus and royalty rose to INR 24,063 million in 9 months financial year '25, marking a solid 16.3% year-on-year growth from INR 20,687 million in 9 months financial year '24. A 9 months financial EBITDA stood at INR 3,716 million with a healthy margin of 15.4%, while the PAT grew by 9.2% to INR 2,142 million from INR 1,962 million in 9 months financial year '24.
Our strong financial position is further validated by India Ratings and Research, which has assigned a long-term rating of AA-/Stable for fund-based working capital limits and IND A1+ (Short term) for [indiscernible] working capital limits. These ratings highlights our improving scale of operations, strong cash flow and overall [indiscernible]. As of December 30, 2024, we had a robust order book of INR 1,17,025 million reflecting our healthy book-to bill ratio. Our order book [indiscernible] 83.4% from highways, which includes elevated roads, specialized structures, flyovers, tunnels. 12.7% from railways and metros, 1.2% from bus terminals and 0.3% from airport runways.
Now, let me provide an update on a few ongoing projects. A Delhi-Saharanpur Highway project [indiscernible].
Looking ahead, we have already bid for project worth [indiscernible] spanning railway, metros, structure projects and national highways. We are also actually exploring new verticals to fuel the future growth. Over the years, we have consistently maintained the double-digit EBITDA margin. With a strong resource base and execution capabilities, we are confident in delivering another year of solid performance.
In conclusion, Ceigall India remains dedicated to creating value for our stakeholders, customers and shareholders. We are confident that our focus on innovation, diversification and operational excellence will propel the growth in coming years. Thank you for your support and trust in Ceigall India Limited.
I will now hand over the call to Mr. Bhagat Singh, our Group CFO, who will provide the overall review of the financial performance. Over to you, Mr. Bhagat.
Thank you, Ramneek sir. Good evening, everyone. I'll now take you through the financial highlights for Q3 and first 9 months of FY '25. Starting with the stand-alone financials of Q3 FY '25. Our revenue from operations, excluding bonus and royalty stood at INR 8,101 million, reflecting a 10.3% year-on-year growth from INR 7,342 million in Q3 FY '24. EBITDA, excluding bonus and royalty came in at INR 1,049 million, up 3.4% from INR 1,014 million last year with an EBITDA margin of 12.9% for the quarter. Our PAT for Q3 FY '25 stood at INR 682 million compared to INR 748 million in Q3 FY '24.
On the debt front, our gross stand-alone debt stood at INR 4,285 million, which includes INR 226 million in equipment term loan, INR 3,206 million in term loans and INR 852 million in working capital loans.
Now moving on to the consol numbers for Q3 FY '25. Revenue from operations, excluding bonus and royalty reached at INR 8,304 million, marking a 20.2% year-on-year increase from INR 6,910 million in Q3 FY '24. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 1,232 million compared to INR 1,357 million last year with an EBITDA margin of 14.8%. PAT for Q3 FY '25 came in at INR 708 million with a net margin of 8.5%. On a consol basis, our gross debt stood at INR 11,420 million, which includes INR 480 million in equipment term loan, INR 3,921 million in term loans, INR 6,069 million in HAM term loans and INR 946 million in working capital loans. Our net debt equity ratio remains very competitive and comfortable at 0.4x for the period ended 9 months FY '25.
Coming to the working capital, our net working capital days stood at 66 days as on 31st December 2024. This is calculated considering the inventory days, WIP position, receivable and vendor payments. In terms of project execution, we currently have 22 ongoing projects with a total order book value of INR 1,17,025 million. This includes 14 EPC projects, 7 HAM projects and 1 BOT projects, spanning roads, highways, tunnels, railways, metros, airports, runways and bus terminals. Notably, NHAI projects account for 79.6% of our total order book.
With a strong order pipeline, a stable credit rating and a government continued focus on infrastructure development, we are very well positioned to drive strong revenue growth and long-term success.
With this, I conclude my remarks and thanks all our esteemed stakeholders, including our employees, business partners, vendors, auditors, bankers for their wholehearted support in the long-term growth journey of the company. On behalf of Ceigall India Limited, I thank everyone for attending this call.
Now I request the moderator to open the floor for question and answer. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities.
Sir, my first question is, we saw a fall in EBITDA margins from 15.1% in Q3 FY '24 to 13% in Q3 FY '25. So what would be the reason for that?
Our EBITDA margin, if you see, so we have already given the guidance that the pure EBITDA margin, that is from the [indiscernible] pure EBITDA margins would range from 12.5% to 13%. So our pure EBITDA margin is within our guidance. If you see the quarter-to-quarter EBITDA, pure EBITDA margin, then you will find that our EBITDA -- pure EBITDA margin varies within the range itself. Within the guidance, it was for Q3 FY '25, we have achieved EBITDA margin of 12.90%. And for 9 months ended FY '25, we have achieved the EBITDA margin of 12.80%, which is within the guided number.
Okay, sir. And sir, we are seeing an increase in working capital days from 45 days in FY '24 to 66 days in FY '25 till date. So why there is an increase in this working capital?
I would like to submit that the working capital is a very churning number and it moves -- rotates to a number to number basis. And moreover, this number is as on 31st December, like whatever billing has been done. Our average working capital cycle is from 40 to 50 days only. It includes debtors and inventories and vendors also. So it is a number as we speak. But on an average, we are maintaining the working capital cycle of 40 to 50 days.
Okay, sir. And sir, what would be the order pipeline for the remaining year in Q4 FY '25?
We have already informed that in the call itself that we have order pipeline of INR 16,000 crores as we...
Order pipeline?
Order pipeline is close to INR 13,000 crores. And we just quoted for new tenders was INR 16,000 crores.
Okay, sir. And sir, why there is a delay in execution of the Greenfield Amritsar connectivity EPC project? I mean the status I could see on the presentation, it's 0%.
Which project -- can you repeat, please?
Hello?
Which project are you talking about? Which project?
Yes, I'm talking about Greenfield Amritsar connectivity EPC project.
Okay. The Amritsar-Katra project, all the milestones were achieved well before the time period. We've already executed the project which was handed over as a land. The project which is not yet completed, the land has gone handed over to us by the government. We are ahead of schedule. We have completed all our milestones ahead of schedule. And the land which is not available is only the balance work. We have already done 84%.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Sahil Vohra from M&S Associates.
Sir, I have some questions. Firstly, can you please throw some light on our executed versus unexecuted order book?
So there are a lot of projects. As a number, if you start, it is more than 15 numbers. So specifically, if you want to ask we are almost in 10 states now. So particularly, if you want to ask some questions on ongoing work or you want me to talk on everything because the -- and it's there in the investor presentation. We have already uploaded in the investor presentation. 15 EPC projects, 7 HAM projects. Total 22 projects.
Okay. I'll go through that. Sir, my next question is, we see the Q3 FY '25 numbers in comparison to FY '24 Q3 numbers, they have kind of dropped. So is it because of execution problem or the projects are delayed?
You can continue with the question, please.
Yes. Sir, my next question was compared to the Q3 FY '24 numbers. The Q3 FY '25 numbers have dropped. So is that because of the project execution problems or the projects are delayed in general that I wanted to know...
Number one thing, there is no drop. We have already given a guidance in our earlier calls also. We need to look at the total EBITDA margin of the company in 2 ways. One is the pure EBITDA margin from EPC execution. We have given a guidance of 12.5% to 13%, which ranges from -- which will remain consistent on every quarter-to-quarter.
Now when you talk about the total EBITDA, total EBITDA includes pure EPC EBITDA plus other income, that is FDR income, royalty income or bonus income, which is irregular and which depend upon quarter-to-quarter on nature of the work.
So now if you see the quarter 3 FY '25 and quarter 3 FY '24, quarter 3 FY '24, we derived EBITDA, excluding royalty and bonus 13.80%. Quarter 3 FY '25, we derived the margin of 12.90%. So this is within the line the guidance we have given. So there is no drop. It is within the EBITDA because on an annualized basis, we are targeting to achieve the pure EBITDA margin of 12.5% to 13%. Over and above that, including other income, bonus and royalty, we are targeting to achieve the aggregate margin of 14.5% to 15.5%.
So on a quarter-to-quarter basis, whatever margin we derive, it depends upon the project which was executed within that quarter and the quantum of the work which has been done for that respective project. So the EBITDA may vary from quarter-to-quarter, but 2 things need to be noticed. Number one, the pure EBITDA -- pure EPC EBITDA will be remaining consistent in line with the guided number. Number two, whatever annual projections we have given, the company is fully in line with it, and we would be able to achieve the annual guided number in terms of turnover and EBITDA margins.
Okay. Okay. Sir, my last question is the NHAI orders have been muted for a long time. How do you see the NHAI bidding picking up in the last quarter and, say, next 1 or 2 years, if you can shed some light on that?
So we have got 2 [indiscernible] projects worth INR 2,700 crores. We have just got -- we are L1 in Southern Bypass, which is INR 923 crores. So besides being muted, also, we got a contract worth INR 3,400 crores. And NHAI website would have contracts more than INR 50,000 crores live on their site. I think the way they are growing, it will be around INR 80 crores to INR 1 lakh crores before 31st March.
And I don't see any dearth of business in NHAI. Yes, due to some certain policy change, we now have to take the cabinet approval and things are getting approved. If you see, in the last 2 quarters also, they have approved close to INR 55,000 crores, INR 60,000 crores of projects. And a lot of work is coming. A lot of good changes are coming, which will be healthier for companies like us. And the way we have guided our investors that we will be getting projects worth INR 5,000 crores this year. We've already -- close to our targets, and we still have about 2 months balance.
The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited.
Firstly, on the interest cost side. So we have seen a sharp reduction in the interest cost from INR 20 crores in Q2 to INR 10 crores in Q3 at stand-alone level. So our debt has increased on a quarter-on-quarter basis. So what has led to this sharp reduction in interest cost?
So primarily, Vaibhav, the point is 2 things. Post IPO, the company has aggressively taken up with all its bankers for the reduction of the margin. So the company is successfully able to reduce the margin for availment of the working capital limit, the company is providing a margin of 20% against the total sanction to the various member banks. So post-IPO in the month of August itself, we have requested the banks to reduce the margin from 20% to 10%. The resultant would be, the amount passing the FDR, which is yielding FDR return of 6% or 6.5%, we are successfully able to release it from the bank and utilize the resultant inflow to support the NWC and the long-term equity.
So the amount that we garnered from release of FDR that has been utilized to reduce the utilization, which resulted in the saving of the financial cost. This is the first part. Another factor which contributed to the reduction was we have been successfully able to get a sanction of approximately INR 700-plus crores plus from insurance company. So we have got a line from insurance company in the form of surety bond and bid bond for which we need not to pay any margin to the insurance company.
As we speak, against INR 700 crores, 20% margin release equivalent to INR 140 crores. So this is again an amount which we got released from the banks and utilizing to reduce the working capital utilization. So all these factors put together, they have contributed towards reduction in the interest cost.
Third factor, which was primarily important to be noted on account of listing of the company, the various member banks of the company, they have revised their charges, right, funded interest rates as well as the BD charges. So that funded interest reduction that has also helped us to reduce the interest cost. And as you mentioned, you have seen the debt amount to increase.
I would like to inform you that on a quarter-to-quarter basis, whenever a new project was started or whenever we reach at a particular level, the company avails either a small amount of working capital to utilize to mobilize the resources or we avail more term loans from the bank at a rate of 9% or 9.10% to mobilize the resources, which further reduced from the collections of the project.
So this is a journey of a company. Slowly in a particular quarter, whenever there is a requirement to mobilize the resources, you may find a debt, but that drastically got reduced from the collection. You may -- if you have gone through my press release, we have mentioned that the total debt equity ratio still stand at 0.4%, which is within the comfortable range of the company.
Okay. Sir, so what would be our average cost of debt right now?
Average cost of debt somewhere would be close to 8.75%.
And what is our -- what debt are you targeting by the year-end?
In terms of -- you are targeting the targeted ROI or....
In value. In gross term.
In value terms, our debt -- stand-alone debt as we speak is INR 4,285 million. So we are expecting that by 31st March, there would be a decline further by INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores in the same number.
INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores?
Yes, yes. So it would be close to...
It includes INR 430 crores [indiscernible] around INR 100 crores by year-end?
Yes. Because, sir, see, my approvals are consistent. So by the March quarter, we would be -- we are expecting that we would be able to release further FDR from the bank, which will support us to reduce the existing utilization.
Okay. Okay. Sir, secondly, what is our -- what CapEx have we done in 9 months and what is our '25 and '26 target for CapEx?
We have already raised INR 99 crores for the CapEx purpose, which we have successfully utilized in line with the IPO requirement we have shared. So this is what we intend to do for this year. Remaining, there is no major CapEx plan. But yes, on an average for maintenance purpose, if there is hardly any requirement, it would be within the range of INR 20 crores to INR 25 crores per year. But as we have already mentioned in our IPO and our past earnings call, Ceigall is an asset-light company. So we don't invest much in fixed assets. We prefer to take the assets on lease on a higher basis.
For '25, the CapEx is INR 100 crores.
'25, it is in line with the IPO. This is not a fresh CapEx, I repeat. This is not a fresh CapEx. We are doing -- we are just deploying the fund which we raised in the IPO.
Okay. Sir, lastly, on the appointed date side. So when do we expect to receive the appointed date for VRK 11 and VRK 12?
VRK 12, we are expecting we should get VRK 12 in the month of March. Mobilization is already happening. Stage 1 provision is there of the forest. We are really expecting things are going very positive and good. And in terms of Ayodhya, we should expect we should -- maximum 2 months' time, we should have [indiscernible].
So for both Ayodhya projects and for VRK 12, this March?
Yes.
And for VRK 11?
VRK 11 might take another 2, 3 months.
So, you mean first quarter of next year?
Yes. But we are very -- with new 3 projects starting only or at least a new order book of INR 3,500 crores will be added.
And sir, on the guidance front, what revenue growth are we targeting for FY '25 and '26? What revenue growth are we targeting for '25 and '26?
So we have always guided our investors that we should always have organic growth of around 15%, 20%. If you see, from last year, in 9 months also, the growth is there. And this quarter also, the same kind of growth will be there. And we want to be a little conservative. It's better to have a better growth rather than guiding on aggressive numbers.
So we maintain our 15% to 20% growth guidance?
Yes, yes.
Sir, lastly, on the core EBITDA margins. So we mentioned that it should be in the range of 12.5% to 13%. So going ahead in '26 and '27, can there be a further expansion or 13% is capped at the EPC level?
So what we can -- we have already informed that our guided number is 12.5% to 13% pure EPC margin that we are targeting. Yes, we are entering into the new domains, which may provide an additional alpha to the company, but being a conservative company. So we are always -- we believe that the margin would be playing within 12.5% to 13%. But yes, whenever the actual realization crosses the targeted or benchmark number, we would be informing the investors and reporting the actual line profits.
The next question is from the line of Dheeraj Kripalani from Avendus Spark.
I think I missed the number which you told like from the NHAI pipeline. What was that number? What is NHAI pipeline right now?
So our order book value is already around 80% from NHAI pipeline. And we have already got 2 projects of Ayodhya, which is worth INR 2,500 crores, and we are L1 in Southern Bypass, which is INR 923 crores. So if you see, close to INR 3,400 crores, we have got from NHAI. These are HAM projects, all 3.
And what is the like you are expecting the more projects coming from NHAI, like if you can highlight something on bid pipeline?
So if you see NHAI pipeline, we have already quoted projects worth INR 16,000 crores. And NHAI, NHAI would be more than 50%. And a lot of good projects are already in the pipeline, which we have to bid in next two months. NHAI always have a target to issue LOIs on 31st March or before 31st March. So they also have certain targets. So I'm really positive about a lot of things, but you can't guide out for future. But whatever we guided our investors that we will be achieving INR 5,000 crores target, we have already near to INR 4,500 crores. We've already got 2 Ayodhya Bypass worth INR 2,700 crores. INR 900 crores, we have got Bhubaneswa Metro. INR 3,400 crores. Then INR 923 crores, we have got a new Southern Bypass, which is close to INR 4,400 crores. And about INR 150 crores is a bus terminal. So we've already crossed INR 4,500 crores. And our INR 16,000 crores is another quoted tender. So we are expecting good results by end of this financial year. We still have 2 months now.
The next question is from the line of Siddharth Gupta from ICICI Bank.
Congratulations on the results. My query is, you have shared some segmental-wise data, so in which you have EPC and then annuity projects. So against the annuity projects for the December quarter, the segment results, that is the EBITDA is showing at INR 3 crores and for the 9 months, it's showing at INR 16 crores. In the presentation, it is mentioned that there was a profit of INR 20 crores. So I'm unable to reconcile the numbers, if you can help me.
So the point is that this INR 20 crores refers to the profit. So if you see how the consol numbers are derived. So one is a stand-alone number, which is duly mentioned. After stand-alone numbers, there are subsidiaries and SPV. SPVs are a HAM project. So whenever we have one SPV, that is Malout Abhohar Sadhuwali, which is completed last year, June 6, so which is already completed and the company has already received the annuity. So once you prepare the consol results, so profit of the SPV also added back -- added up to the consol number. So this INR 20 crores of profit, which we have given a note in the press release, this pertains to this profit that the profit of the Malout Abhohar Sadhuwali SPV, which was consolidated into the consol balance sheet and this 19.6% profitability includes this profit.
Okay. Just one further question. Now you have already mentioned regarding the appointment dates expected for a few of the HAM projects. This Mandi Dabwali and Jalbehra-Shahbad, when is the COD expected for these projects?
So Bhatinda-Dabwali, we're expecting to complete it by next month. So we should get the COD before May.
Before May.
Will be ahead of schedule. Our recorded date was approximately 11th August, it will be ahead of schedule.
Okay. And Jalbehra-Shahbad?
Jalbehra, also the same line. Maximum would be May end.
Okay. And Ludhiana-Bathinda, I think this project has been awarded some time back. Any update on appointment date for this project?
So the agreement has been done, I think, last month. We have 5 months for the financial closure. So the 5 months would end close to May. And I'm targeting around that time, we should be getting it. Maximum would be in the second quarter.
The next question is from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Capital.
Sir, I just want to reconfirm one number. So including the 5 HAM and Amritsar-Katra project, which we have, which are currently not functional in terms of construction, what is the order book under construction at this point of time?
If we just remove first two, which is INR 1,071 crores and the other one is INR 900 crores -- should be around close to INR 5,000 crores.
Okay. Understand. And of that, you said both the Ayodhya projects plus the Varanasi-12 will come up in March.
Exactly. Exactly, exactly.
Okay. So let's say, if we take that, are we still on track for that 15% growth for this year? Because earlier assumption was that Ayodhya will come up in January, and we'll be able to execute some bet in this quarter.....
So, no, no, no. We still are trying to do something in March. We still are trying because we have already started mobilizing, and we are targeting to close the financial closure very soon. And good thing is we are really, really positive about Ayodhya. Because Ayodhya is a very important project for government, both the government, Center and State government, and it is like a kind of an iconic project for them, Ayodhya. So I'm really positive about Ayodhya. And achieving a 15% is not a challenge at all.
Understand. And given that all of this will come through and then Ludhiana is also expected by, let's say, the second quarter, next year should be way higher than 15%, 20%, right? That's the right assumption?
I still would say that per our guidance, 15%, 20% would be there. We would like to do -- work hard and deliver more, but let it happen because we don't want to guide anything. We want to guide less and deliver more.
Sure, sir. And sir, one question on margins. So 12.5% to 13% EPC is absolutely fine. But in terms of existing projects which are completing, what sort of visibility we have for bonuses for the coming, let's say, a few quarters?
So I am expecting HAM projects, we should have bonus. If you see company has been achieving all the milestones ahead of schedule. It's just when the government is unable to give us a project or land for the project. There sometimes you were working with the client. So you -- since you have to work with them, you have to understand the site condition also. It's not government never wanted to or they don't try to give us the land. Sometimes circumstances are there, the local problems or something, where you have to understand the client and you have to work with them. Otherwise, all our HAM projects, the first HAM project was completed 8 months ahead of schedule and we have got bonus. Second HAM project, again, completed before time. Third also before time.
Understand. And just one last question on your bidding strategy. So let's say, if there are BOT projects, what is our strategy for BOT project in terms of bidding?
So we are very conservative in terms of the BOT. We have a lot of opportunities on the market where they want us to either give us certain small amount of stake for 26% or they want to take us on role as an EPC contractor. We are open to that kind of work. But we already have a good order pipeline and order book right now with us. And besides that, we'll be bidding for four iconic projects. One of our iconic project is going to open on six, where only four bidders have qualified. It's a Delhi railway station. That's worth INR 2,400 crores. So we have already bid in the joint venture, and it's one of the largest railway station in the country.
So -- as I said before and [indiscernible] before, that we always like to add verticals in [ three ways quoting ] and we've been doing that. We have just quoted for INR 1,200 crores, INR 1,300 crore project in Kolkata, which is a tunnel project, which is in cover and cut-cover method because we are just about to complete our tunnel project, which is in Jammu Kashmir in the last 20 years, so many companies have gone burst executing projects in Ramban-Banihal. We are one of the companies who have almost about to complete this tunnel project of 6,200 meters. And I mean, after that, May and June, we should have our completion certificate. And we are bidding more towards tunnel projects.
So if you see we have about more than nine verticals with Ceigall, so [indiscernible] is very important for us to go into BOT. If we did things BOT, we'll be very conservative. We will be taking care of everything, all aspects before bidding because we already have 10 HAM projects with us and three projects going to be completed. And we don't have any pressure of bidding anywhere like that, and we are very comfortable with our bidding.
And I said before that INR 5,000 crores, we guided all our investors, and we have already touched INR 4,500 crores. And we have already called for INR 16,000 crores more projects. So I mean, I don't think the order book value has always been a challenge for Ceigall.
I would like to revisit my revert on the term loan repayment [ query of river ]. So apologies, there was a mistake in the river. So the query was the debt reduction that we are projecting for the next till March. So as far as the total debt of stand-alone is concerned is INR 4,285 crores. The working capital utilization, as we speak, in INR 85 crores, we're expecting to remain it within the limit.
As far as the term loans are concerned, so the debt payment would be in the line with the repayment should sanction by the time. But I would like to reconfirm that the overall debt to equity ratio of the company would remain on a stand-alone basis within the range of 0.35x to 0.45x.
The next question is from the line of Bala Subramanian from [ Aurium Capital ].
Sir, on the Ayodhya projects and Varanasi projects, how much incremental working capital is required and how much advance regulations for these projects?
Sir, as far as the Varanasi project -- you're talking about the working capital requirement for Ayodhya and Varanasi?
Yes, sir.
So it depends upon the time of we got the AD. So if you talk about Ayodhya, so we are expecting that both the projects will start -- we will be able to get the appointed date in the month of March this quarter -- February, sorry. So we feel that total requirement of against both the HAM projects would be close to INR 250 crores, which the company would be able to meet partially through the internal accruals plus the release of FDs from the banks. And in case the need arises, the company would be able to update the advance from the banks. And as far as the Varanasi is concerned, the total requirement would be close to INR 220 crores.
But I just would like to say that this is a total requirement of working capital on the entire project. The actual cash flow requirement would depend upon the schedule G and schedule H, whatever we need to create and what is the source of the fund. So this is a total quantum I'm just importing, which we'll be requiring over a period of 2 years.
Got it, sir. Sir, how much unused limits we have...
How much?
Unused limits.
Unused limit. So if you talk about the fund-based limit, so we have a quantum of INR 125 crores unutilized as we speak. You're talking about unutilized fund-based limit or unutilized nonfund-based limits?
Sir, fund-based limit. You can share both the limits. It would be very, very helpful.
So basically, we have -- fund-based we have already informed. As far as the nonfund base are concerned, so we already have approximately INR 700 crores to INR 800 crores of the limits from existing banks plus we have INR 1,300 crores of the line sanctioned by the insurance companies for bidding, surety bond or bid bond.
So as far as the total working capital limit is concerned, the company doesn't have any challenge. We have adequate amount of support from banks as well as from the insurance companies. And also we have this IPO proceeds of INR 140 crores that is -- which we have raised in the month of August, the amount of INR 140 crores, which we have raised for general corporate purpose that MDR is also align with the company, which can be utilized either for NWC or a long-term equity inclusion. So that is additional liquidity support.
The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited.
Sir, what is the equity that you have invested total till December in all the projects?
As far as talking about all the three projects, so totally, we have invested INR 247 crores in all the three HAM projects.
Sir, last quarter number was INR 260-odd crores as of September, including Malout.
Malout, I can give you a bifurcation of HAM wise. The Ceigall Malout, we have invested INR 99.23 crores. Ceigall Bathinda-Dabwali, we have invested INR 84.09 crores. Ceigall Jalbehra we have invested INR 64.61 crores. Total is INR 247.93 crores.
And sir Moga-Barnala VRK 11 and 12 we have invested some part, right?
Not yet. The investment would be in line with the whenever we quote an appointee date.
Okay. And sir, secondly, what is the pending equity that we have to infuse as of December? And what is the time line for that annually.
Come again, please? Can you please repeat.
So as of December, how much equity do we have to infuse which is remaining.
As far as these Ayodhya, both the HAM projects are concerned, so we like we have to infuse INR 350 crores. As well as Varanasi is concerned, we are supposed to invest INR 290 crores. Over a period of next 2.5 years.
INR 290 crores, right, for Varanasi.
Yes.
And lastly, sir, what is the trade receivables numbers?
Vaibhav, another important point is we already have INR 84 crores of FDR, which is starting Malout Abhohar Sadhuwali SPV which is a -- that is an amount which is lying there in the form of FDR. So company is also discussing with the banks to release the same so that we can upstream it and utilize it for the future cash flow purposes.
Okay. And sir, lastly, what is our trade receivable number. It was around INR 900 crores as of September.
Just a second. Can you allow me a minute, Vaibhav...
Whether I wanted a trade receivables number? And of that, what is the HAM SPV debtor number? So we are targeting the reduction of around INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores in Q3, I want to know status of that?
No, Vaibhav allow -- we have to e-mail I think. So I'll e-mail you the total debt number of Ceigall India Limited on a stand-alone basis as well as the debtor number for SPVs, right, as on 31 December.
The next question is from the line of Prince Choudhary from PINC Wealth.
Sir, I want to understand from the competition intensity point of view, like due to increase in competition, do you see decline in project margins?
So, hi, thank you for the question. So we are present in almost 10 states. Geography-wise, we have grown ourselves so well. And secondly, we have almost say 10 verticals. So if we are not getting projects in road, we're getting in elevated. Not getting work in elevated, we're getting in railway, not railway then airports, not airports and we have tunneling. We have so many verticals and so many states and geographies that we -- what we have done is we've increased our bidding process.
Like, for example, if you're bidding for INR 16,000 crores, it's not necessary that we have to get all INR 16,000 crores. We can get to INR 3,000 crores or INR 4,000 crores. When we have to bid as per our guided 2-digit EBITDA margins. And the market is so huge. I have already spoken that INR 10 lakh crores is spending INR 11 lakh crores is spending across the country. We -- if we wish and we want to bid also, then we can INR 70,000 crores, INR 80,000 crores or INR 1 lakh crores a year. So we are hardly bidding 10% of the entire country. And from getting INR 15,000 crores or INR 10,000 crores of the project is very, very easy. And the only thing is we have availability of credit lines in terms of [indiscernible] limits. We have availability of insurance bonds. So what we have done is we've been just bidding in all verticals, all geographies, and we've been successful also.
The next question is from the line of [ Sunidhi Joshi from AG Financial Services ].
So Bihar with a share of around 18% of Ceigall's total order book as of December 31 has received significant infrastructure allocations in this Union Budget 2025, including INR 26,000 crores for Expressway projects. So how does Ceigall plan to leverage this opportunity to expand its presence in this region?
Ma'am, we are very excited for Bihar. We've already present in Bihar. We are already doing three projects in Bihar. We are doing the country's longest elevated in Bihar with Danapur-Bihta. And I'm happy to share our first milestone we have achieved 78 days ahead of schedule. We are doing an EPC project. Again, that's a structure work. We are building a bridge over Kosi. Then there's another work which is we are building a doubled decker flyover in heart of the Bihar city.
So we are very well equipped. In fact, one of the contracts we were L2 with a difference of INR 5 crores. So Bihar is a favorite state, and we are really looking forward to Bihar. We have already established ourselves so well. And we are one of the favorite contractors also these days because we've been delivering our projects before time and Bihar always -- there's been a condition people take projects and they don't compete for years. So we have an edge there, and we are really looking forward to Bihar, UP, Jharkhand, but Bihar is on a top list. Thank you.
Okay. Okay. Sir, that sounds promising. And also, you mentioned that the company has bid for projects worth INR 16,000 crores. So could you please provide a breakdown of the segment in which we have placed our bid. Additionally, could you give an estimate of the total order value we expect to secure by end of 2025?
So first question, can I get your e-mail? Our team can send you the e-mail reply for the percentage because it will be very difficult to tell you what the project was INR 16,000 crores. I can tell you about a few projects like we have quoted for INR 2,700 crores New Delhi railway station. Then we have quoted for a INR 1,300 crore project, which is called Kolkata Underground Metro, which is like cut and cover tunneling. So these are kind of -- these are the prominent projects which we have bid. And the entire detail in terms of which area we have quoted or which state we can send an e-mail to you.
Second question is -- can you repeat the second question?
So additionally, if you can provide an estimate of the total order value we expect to secure by 2025...
Yes, that is a good question. So we have guided our investors that we will be getting INR 5,000 crores in this financial year. We've already crossed INR 4,700 crores. And we've already quoted for INR 16,000 crores. So, I mean, whatever we have said, we will cross that. So we still have 2 months with us. So we have already achieved 90% of what we've guided our investors.
Okay, sir. And what IRR do we expect in HAM before selling this project?
So I can just tell you one thing. The first HAM project is AAA rated, which is Malout Abhohar Sadhuwali. And our equity IRR after the completion is almost 20%.
The next question is from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities.
Sir, if I'm not wrong, you said that we are already [ LOI ] INR 930 crores worth of project.
INR 923 crores, yes.
Yes. So can you just give me a detail about that project?
So this project originally also with us, we got it 2, 3 years back for INR 702 crores. And now this project because of the land availability was not there. So the government has canceled the project and now they have come out with this project again, and we've got this project INR 923 crores. We're expecting the LOI very soon. And this is in contribution to our Ludhiana-Bathinda Package 2, which is for another INR 981 crores. And both the projects are very, very good for us, and we already have a camp in INR 5 crores of this project.
Ladies and gentlemen -- the last question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited.
Only one question. Sir, you mentioned that you have bidded for Delhi railway station redevelopment order, right?
Yes. Yes. Yes. We have four qualified bidders. We've received an e-mail today that it is opening on 6 now.
So what is the value of the project and what is our scope in that of the JV our share?
Our JV share is 51%, and this project is worth INR 2,500 crores. There are five bidders. I'll correct myself, there are five bidders.
And what is the value you said?
It's close to INR 2,500 crores.
INR 2,500 crores.
Yes, yes, yes.
So of that our EPC share would be around 51%.
51%. We're the lead bidder.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ankit Jain for the closing comments.
For the conference call today, and thanks to all the participants for joining the call. If you have any queries, please feel free to contact us via Orient Capital, Investor Relations Adviser to Ceigall India Limited. Thank you so much.
Thank you everyone. Thank you.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Ceigall India Limited, that concludes this conference. You may now disconnect your lines.