HT Media Ltd
NSE:HTMEDIA
HT Media Ltd
NSE:HTMEDIA
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Earnings Call Transcript
Earnings Call Recording
Other Earnings Calls
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Amit Madaan from HT Media Limited. I would welcome you all to our Q4 and full year 21/'22 Earnings Webinar. [Operator Instructions] I now hand over the call to Ms. Anna Abraham, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, Anna.
Thank you, Amit. A very good morning to everyone. On behalf of HT Media Group, I welcome you all to our earnings webinar to discuss the financial results of the quarter and the full year '21/'22. On the call with me today are Mr. Piyush Gupta, Group CFO; Mr. Sandeep Gulati, CFO of Hindustan Media Ventures Limited; Mr. Pervez Bajan, Group Controller; and members of my Investor Relations team.
The financial results of Hindustan Media Ventures Limited was declared last Thursday, the 26th and the result of HT Media was released last Friday on the 27th. I hope all of you had an opportunity to go through the results. We will be discussing the highlights of the same on today's call. Kindly note that our remarks will track for the presentation on the Zoom webinar. This presentation, along with the financial statement, is available on stock exchanges and the Investor Relations section of our website.
I'm now on Slide 2 of our presentation, which has captured the disclaimer regarding forward-looking statements. This is on your screens right now. As per practice, we do not provide specific revenue earnings guidance. And I request you to keep in mind the above guidance with regards to all the discussions that happened during the course of the call today.
Moving on to the Slide 3. The next slide gives our Chairperson's comments on the performance of the company for the quarter and I quote. "In the last financial year, economic and commercial activities remain volatile on account of a multitude of external factors. In the first part of the year, the second wave of the pandemic affected lights, livelihoods and businesses. As a way subsided, business activity picked up and was supported in the third quarter of the financial year by the annual festive season. However, the last quarter of the year saw some disruption on account of the third wave of COVID-19 caused by the Omicron variant; geopolitical factors such as Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which resulted in high inflation; and a sharp rise in commodity prices.
Against this backdrop, advertising revenue from our print and radio businesses in the last quarter have grown over last year, owing to sustain efforts of our teams and gradual improvement in the business environment. Circulation revenues do are on an upswing. Digital revenue grew handsomely. The full year saw good growth in revenue across businesses and higher operating profit margins. In the current financial year, we hope to build on the momentum we saw last year and do even better across businesses. The external environment does pose some challenges, and we will be monitoring and adapting to these as events unfold. As always, we remain committed to providing incredible and engaging news, information and entertainment content to our audiences."
Moving on to Slide 4. This slide captures the agenda for today. We will begin the performance update with comments on our consolidated financials for the fourth quarter and full year, which will be followed by detailed remarks on our print, digital and radio businesses. We will open for Q&A after the presentation concludes. With this, I hand over the call to the Group CFO, Mr. Piyush Gupta.
Thank you, Anna, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to our results call. I am on Slide #6, if you can see consolidated financial summary. If you can see on a full year basis, our total revenues grew 26% to INR 1,678 crores; and our EBITDA grew to INR 204 crores, a growth of 127%.
Improvement in EBITDA with a 12% margin and full year at 7%, up by 127% versus FY '21 despite impact of multiple COVID [ base ] during the fiscal as also the escalated newsprint price, which we will be speaking about subsequently. However, in the second half of the year, we had a better performance with EBITDA coming at INR 164 crores versus the first half of INR 40 crores. Consolidated PAT, as you can see, at INR 90 crores in FY '22 versus INR 65 crores loss last year, which is an improvement of INR 84 crores, and the cash position remains strong within the growth.
Moving on. If I just drill down in the business unit performance and we first look at the print performance. On a full year basis, the print revenues grew 33% to INR 950 crores from INR 717 crores earlier. Circulation revenues also saw a handsome increase of 17% to INR 211 crores. As a principle, operating revenue grew 33% to INR 1,269 crores with operating EBITDA at INR 120 crores with a 9% margin. EBITDA at last year's level, despite higher newsprint prices is a commendable achievement because the new fuel prices have grown substantially since the second quarter of this fiscal [indiscernible] review.
Moving on. If you just have a deeper look into our English print media business. Our ad revenues on a quarterly basis have grown 12% Y-o-Y. And on a full year basis, improved 46% Y-o-Y. Our circulation revenue on a quarterly basis have grown 122% Y-o-Y, and our full year growth is 130% Y-o-Y. If you look -- if we drill it down into certain categories, categories such as real estate, banking, finance, FMCG, education and entertainment grew, while retail, industrial and e-commerce remains subdued. If we have the same look at our Hindi business, our quarterly ad revenues grew 1% or virtually flat on a quarterly basis Y-o-Y. On a full year basis, they grew 20%. Our circulation revenue grew 3% on a quarterly basis and 7% on a full year basis. These numbers are all Y-o-Y.
At a category level, categories such as retail banking and finance, health and fitness grew while auto, FMCG and education remained subdued. Our radio performance, our full year radio revenue grew to INR 101 crores at 37% growth; and operating EBITDA, we were able to curtail our losses to an EBITDA loss of INR 15 crores as against INR 62 crores last year. Operating EBITDA loss has been substantially reduced. And this is the second consecutive quarter where we managed to turn in EBITDA breakeven to a marginal EBITDA profit sequentially.
Moving on to our last segment on our digital performance. As you can see, our operating revenues have grown quite substantially at 47% to INR 132 crores with operating EBITDA coming at virtually breakeven and full year EBITDA are around the breakeven levels. With that, we come to the end of the presentation. And I hand it back to Amit.
Thank you, Piyush. We will now begin the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mr. [ Pawan Bhadauria ].
Yes. So basically, my question is regarding HMVL. So we have seen almost a similar level of cash in this year as well. But for last 2, 3 years, I don't see any plans for better utilization of that case, like it's just giving some interest income, but that is also fluctuating. So any concrete plans on utilization of that cash, which is just lying.
Thank you so much for the question. So 2 parts to your question. First of all, interest income, it's not a little bit interest income. It's a reasonably well-governed treasury. So if you look at the details of the interest income, it's a substantial 10% post-tax kind of yield that, that cash is earning. However, having said that, as you are aware, in HMVL, we are already incubating our HT Labs business. This business is at a still a nascent stage, but very soon, we will be coming to the market and highlighting the various things that we are deploying this cash on to build all the businesses and properties facing -- future facing. So there is a clear plan to utilize this cash but as you know, HMVL right now is a substantial cash -- company with a substantial amount of cash on the balance sheet. But we will not unnecessarily do things which we shouldn't be doing with this cash, but we'll be investing this cash to create businesses for future and you'll be so hearing from us.
The next question is from the line of Mr. Anurag Poddar.
Piyush, I have one question with respect to the digital business. So what I understand, there was a plan by the company to merge all these group assets like Digicontent and the radio business and all which are separately listed -- so what are the plans over there? And secondly, what -- there was a sharp growth. So what led to that sharp upgrowth? Or maybe we are looking at something bigger into that because the competitors are going large investments into that.
Anurag, just tell me the second part of the question. First part, I've understood.
What are the group plans for the digital business?
Okay. Fair enough. Good. So Anurag, first, on the scheme of reorganization that we had proposed, which unfortunately because the shareholders did not exceed to that pool go ahead. Now we definitely still believe that we have to again put down some scheme, which is acceptable to the shareholders. Because the whole thought process was that we have to put a lot of growth capital into our digital companies and our radio business, which is now again coming back from a COVID overhang. And hence, we had proposed the scheme. The investors have at this point in time, not exceeded to the scheme. So we will have to come back to the new plan. And you will hear from us, but we definitely want to do that in the larger just of all the shareholders, majority and minority.
As far as the digital businesses are concerned, as I just was articulating to your colleague before you, Pawan, that we are investing in our labs business in HMVL, and these are all digital businesses, which are future-facing businesses. They are at various stages of construction, and we have done a soft launch of some of these businesses. I don't want to specifically call them out at this point in time. But sooner rather than later, we will be taking these products to market, and we are already testing the monetization of products. So a substantial investment will happen behind these digital products which will create a sustainable revenue stream and hence, they'll be all accretive from a shareholder perspective. But it will take some time. We've been at it for some time. I hope that answers your question, Anurag.
Yes. So I have a follow-up on this. So does that mean maybe you would rework the plans on that merger again? Because that's a time-consuming business, right? So approvals the NCLT and all.
It is a very time consuming thing, Anurag. Actually, personally, I feel slightly sad that the shareholder did not bless this whole scheme but we will have to have some scheme whereby we can drive the synergies between our legacy media businesses and the new businesses that we are creating. And we are -- we will sell the messages again to the shareholder. But as you know, under the SEBI process, the shareholders will have to bless this thing. Otherwise, it will not go forward.
Okay. So what business HT Media within this company, the digital business is into? And what is different what DG does and what is your -- because to [indiscernible] [ Lehmann ] that -- you cannot make out even on the product side.
So let me -- yes, on the product side, let me try to paint a big picture. On the digi, most of our news media products on digital platform to decide in the Digicontent Limited, which has historically been there. Whereas in HT Media, there are online recruitment, online entertainment products and we did the acquisition of VCCircle, which is the publication in the VC and [indiscernible] stage and the new companies, fundraising and so on and so forth. However, we are now incubating a lot of businesses in this part of the business, not in Digicontent. And hence, at some point in time, we would like to integrate and kind of take this whole piece to the market forward. The new businesses that we are incubating are not in the new space. So there will be new businesses and they will be creating an independent revenue stream. That's broadly how our digital business has pan out. Does that clarify your question, Anurag?
Yes. Yes, Piyush.
The next question is from the line of Mr. Sumit Poddar.
[indiscernible].
Yes, Sumit, we can hear you.
Yes.
Sumit. Your voice is not very clear.
[indiscernible].
Sumit, though your voice is not very clear. But if I got you right, you were asking on the outlook on the advertisement revenues. Is that the question?
Yes. What is the outlook for advertisement revenues? And similarly, on the raw material side, how would you look at the newsprint cost?
Look, Sumit, Had you asked me this question at the end of December, just after we had exited the festive season. I would have said that our outlook on the ad revenues is very, very bullish, and we saw that happening. But then came Omicron came in January. And right now, we are all talking about inflation and Central Bank taking actions and so on and so forth. So as far as the outlook on revenue is concerned, I would say it's still good. We have already built our plans, and we are going for a growth plan. But really, only after let's say, this first quarter, we will get a clearer picture depending on the macroeconomic situation. So that's the outlook on the revenue. As far as the outlook on the raw material cost is concerned, I'm -- unfortunately, the outlook is slightly weak at this point in time.
This commodity cycle on newsprint that we have seen has already hit a peak, which has never been witnessed either to before and the geopolitical factors are definitely not helping. So I believe this commodity cycle is a slightly extended cycle though we've been able to do some smart contracts and build up the inventory slightly ahead of time to have as much benefit to the P&L, but that can only shift it by about a quarter. So I personally believe the newsprint situation is going to continue on an [ escalated ] level for another couple of quarters before it peaks out and starts coming down. Look, eventually, it cannot stay there, and it cannot all of us it very quickly, but I think it will be escalated for a couple of quarters.
Okay. Got it. And as far as advertising revenues are concerned, I mean, in your talk with the plans how are they kind of -- in terms of are they cutting down as of now or kind of they are taking a watch and wait -- I'm sorry that -- am I audible now?
Yes, you are much audible now. Please go ahead once again, please.
Yes. I was asking whether the customers are holding back on the spending? Or is it that they are yet to come back in full swing?
Well, Sumit, I would say you'll have to go a little deeper. I mean, category by category right now, as you see in the start-up world, et cetera, things are changing very rapidly. So that part of the business is definitely slowing. There are some other parts of the businesses as I was articulating in my slide earlier, which are holding back, and there are some segments which are going ahead. So I think overall, it's a mixed bag, but I would say, given the macro situation, there's a little bit of pressure on advertisement but I believe more clarity will emerge after the first quarter of this fiscal.
The next question is from the line of Yash.
Piyush, one question is with regards to HMVL. The new age business, which you are talking digital business, is this line in HMVL now? Because we are seeing -- you have started giving segment separate unallocated amount were INR 5 crore, if I'm not wrong. So is it -- is that investment now lies in HMVL?
Yes. So I think my colleague, Anna, would like to speak about it. The simple answer is yes. But, Anna, please go ahead.
Yes. So the digital -- we have reported a segment called digital. That revenues like as part HT Media division and subsidiaries of HT Media. There is the new businesses that we talked about incubating and that definitely lies in Hindustan Media Ventures Limited and is part of the unallocated segment there.
And in your investor presentation, this unallocated segment goes where -- is it separate?
It is separate. This is unallocated. So we only talk about print, radio and -- print, radio and digital in the investor presentation. Unallocated we do not talk about because there are multiple till the incubation is at such a stage where there is an established business model, which we separately start tracking and reporting. It remains in unallocated. So it's not covered as part of the presentation, it will be part of the total revenue, but not part of the business wise.
Any revenue in Q4 from those businesses?
No, that's starting.
So that's the point which I was making. We have still not taken those products to the market. We are still in a testing stage once they are taken to the market and the monetization starts, we will be bringing them to a segment, so you'll get more clarity on this.
Okay. And second question is your print business, last year, when you had reported print business Q4 and full year, we were having operating EBITDA of minus 6. And now this time when you have reported the last year number, it is INR 126 crores. There is a very huge gap. It is almost like INR 130 crores. So what has shifted between this report and earlier report.
Hold I'm a little confused, sir. Anna would you -- I don't have that detail.
Last year's investor presentation FY '22, you reported operating EBITDA of print as minus 6. And now this year, the previous year number, it is showing print EBITDA at INR 126 crores. So there is a INR 130 crore -- we have moved out some expenses might have moved out because revenue looks the same expense has got moved out to the tune of INR 130 crores. Can throw some light what is that INR 130 crores we have.
Yash, I'll have to -- yes, I'll have to look at it. I'm seeing in the current investor presentation, the comparable last year number is INR 126 crores, but you're saying in the last year presentation, that was minus 6%. So let me come back to you. I really have to check that one.
Yes. Because even in your UFR, the segment of print, there is only movement of INR 10 crore. So where is that INR 130 crore movement. Is there some error in the presentation?
No, no, no, no. There can't be an error. Yash, these are all tracking the audited numbers. But let me come back to you on this thing. We will put in a note to you, right?
The next question is from the line of Mehul.
Pleasure to connect with you again. Actually, I have one question and one observation to make. You shared that regarding Digicontent and HT Digital media stream, you will have to go back to the shareholder with a better proposal. Now my observation is that if you go back and look at what commentary you gave 2, 3 years ago, while demerging these businesses, okay? So the shareholders supported the proposal then to demerge. Not taking your word at face value and why you want to demerge. So that these businesses is in focus, there was strategic intent in this direction that these businesses should sustain themselves they would on their own, generate enough return to justify the demerger, et cetera, et cetera, correct?
Yes.
Now that the shareholders have voted against the resolution to merge these businesses, I think there needs to be serious rethink on why it is not that your proposal, you gave us a few shares lesser or few shares more that shareholders will vote for or against the proposal. Management commentary needs to be consistent. When you are demerging or merging a business, there's to be a 10-year, 20-year outlook because businesses can't deliver in 2 years, 3 years. The other thing is that you will lose trust on the Digicontent, you have amortized some close to INR 210 crores, INR 220 crores. Amortization is over. The book value is wiped out and now you want to add that lower sort of apparent intrinsic value, you want to merge it with HT media.
Obviously, shareholders are not going to pass it. So I think before you come up with a better proposal to merge again, I would say, 2, 3 years, build the trust and then go back to the shareholders. I would urge the Board to win our confidence back it is just an observation and suggestion.
No, no, I think that's a great point. Mehul, so let me just react to that. And you're absolutely right. 3, 4 years ago when they had gone to the shareholders, we had said why we want to demerge and we had given a certain commentary and the shareholders agreed with us. They had blessed the whole thing and it went ahead -- and just look in the last 3, 4 years performance of Digicontent Limited, I think we have dipped up to what we have said. The business [ measures ] all are pointing upward. However, there are 2 or 3 things that you'll have to understand and bear with me, Mehul. One is the reality on the ground because this business is having such a strong tailwind, and COVID has only accelerated the tailwind. .
We, today, have an opportunity to grow these businesses much faster than what we are currently managing to grow. However, there is a lot of financial resources required for that. DCL on a stand-alone basis, does not have that kind of financial resources. To the best of our ability, we borrowed those resources from our sister company, HT media, but that's a publicly traded company and they are minority shareholders also in that. So I don't think this is a question of trust. I think what we saw, we've already done. As a matter of fact, what's happening is much bigger than what we had anticipated. And hence, we have an inert desire of doubling down on the initiative.
Why do you think we are incubating all these other businesses in HMVL? We are incubating all these other businesses in HMVL in spite of having a pure play digital company because we don't have those kind of resources. Hence, we decided to go back to the shareholders and ask for those resources. Now, I will interface with all the shareholders again. Tell them what the reality is. Numbers are bearing me out. Obviously, I can speak to you about what our outlook of the future market on digital is concerned. But you, as a consumer of various digital products in your personal capacity, in your professional capacity already know that the digital has been reset basis COVID.
And today, we have a golden opportunity because we've got a business, which is already showing a lot of promise in the last 3 years to double down, but we don't have the resources. And hence, we are going -- look, we can postpone this journey. DCL is already a cash-generating company. They will -- basis the size they have, they can go incrementally, that's not a problem. But if you have to really double down, where do you get those resources from. That was really the underlying commentary and that's what we went on to the shareholders saying that, look, the consumer preferences have changed post-COVID very sharply today all the consumers who are either to only the legacy media consumers are today asking for bundled products.
There are finite amount of resources in DCL. If we kind of merged this whole stuff, look, that's the whole reason. I think if the shareholders want to take a little bit longer view, Mehul, I think this will be a win-win situation. But of course, if we have not told the story well, we are willing to tell it again, but I think that is the only story that we have.
But Piyush, the optics are terrible. If you see after amortizing INR 210 crores, shareholders taking all the pain on Digicontent for almost 3 years. Now you merge it at a ratio also that is bad. All the shareholders who have trusted you and hang on to the share for 3 years after demerger, it looks very bad. It appears as if it was just done to take INR 210 crores out of Digicontent. So anyhow, you do think about it.
Fair enough, Mehul. Look, I understand your point. Look, if it's only about the swap ratio Mehul, those values that we got, the bankers who kind of put the fairness opinion, I mean, we will call them back again. At the end of the day, we will take the shareholders also along with us. But please understand there is minority shareholders sitting on both sides. So it's not that we want to kind of play with that ratio that was never the intent. Why should that be the intent? I mean from a majority shareholder point of view, it's a mirror shareholding right? So there is no inert desire, but the whole point was, can we have enough resources to take this business from 2x try to take it to 5x rather than going from 1x to 1.5x to 2x and 2.5x. .
There is no other reason. I mean, the swap ratios, whatever they be, will come out of the valuation exercise. But Honestly, that's the only intent that we have. But anyway, I will engage with you, Mehul. I will be coming down to Bombay and we'll be talking to all the shareholders.
No, no problem. Well, my best wishes on whatever you decide and hope both companies have a bright future.
Thank you, Mehul. I really appreciate.
Yes. Another question I had was, you said that on treasury-wise, you all make PBT close to 10%. And therefore, you are justifying cash in your hands. Now I think HT Media and Hindustan I think 2, 3 years now, you have not paid any dividend. So the Board is making a statement that money is better off in the hands of the company. Now even if you go back to 2017 for Hindustan Media, HMVL, and you make INR 193 crores of net profit. Your return on equity is going to be only 11%, 12%. So is this money better off in your hands at 10%, 11%, 12% of return on equity? We're just trying to rethink -- you don't want to do a buyback because you might reach the threshold. You don't want to give the money back to shareholders.
So where is the shareholder going to earn money from? Market is not rewarding you. So either you deal with the company, give us value or you give us dividend and give value back to the shareholder. Some proposal has to be there to think of the minority shareholders. So I would request the Board to rethink on at least giving a token dividend. Let some money come back to the shareholder because at this rate, your equity will keep getting bloated. The return on equity will never look good. Market will never value it. Some thought is required on the capital that the company is holding back.
Fair enough, Mehul. I think your point on dividend has been made. I will, as I've said in the past, I will take it forward. But what I can tell you at this point in time, we have a plan to make substantial commitments of capital in HMVL behind these future-facing businesses. But there is enough cash, and I take your point. I will again put it on to the Board.
The next question is from the line of Hari.
Hello. Can you hear me, sir?
Yes, Hari, we can hear you.
Yes. My questions are regarding the news aggregators, they're getting much higher valuations than we like -- than us, like is there any strategy to get into that space like news aggregation? And the other question is regarding this online ad share line, which we are losing from the past debate of this online space. Is there any strategy to claw back some market shares on that?
First, on the aggregators, the news aggregation business, Hari, I'd like to say you should wait for some time. We have some businesses that we are thinking. I can't exactly say whether there will be the news aggregation stage. And I absolutely understand that the market is rewarding or giving them a very high valuation. Obviously, we would also like to have a very high valuation. Hence, we are incubating new businesses. As far as losing share on the online space. Look, I mean I don't know how you calculated that number. But one on the online digital news medium, worldwide, the regulators are having a look at the big companies like Google and Facebook, including our own regulators. Of course, we are participating in those conversations.
How that goes forward is really up to the regulators and the legislators. But we are engaging with both Google and Facebook on side and regulators on the other to have a fair share as the news producers either to -- which has not been coming back to the OEMs like us and was being taken by these big companies. So we are engaging with the government and see what does can happen in that area.
The next question is from the line of Yash.
For a question, can you throw some light on this ad against equity business of yours. It seems now a lot of investment, again, is happening from HMVL. Can you throw some light how we are structuring the ad against equity business?
Yes. So Yash, yes, thank you very much. I think it's a fair question. Yash, it's not like a lot of investments are now again happening from HMVL. For the last couple of years, we have been doing this entire business from HMVL only. So we are not doing it. Earlier 5, 7 years ago, we used to do this business from HTML only. And for the last couple of years, we are doing only from HMVL. How they are structured is very simple. Think of it as a classical investment arrangement that we have except just replace cash with ad space. So we are doing the classical valuation in private or public companies. Public is, of course, much simpler than private company. We are putting our productive covenants and our right package to protect the rights -- our right.
We are then going into long-term deals with these potential advertisers who can -- who are either not advertising on any of our properties or whose market share is much less trying to get that whole thing up. After the diligence is done, we are getting into the shareholders' agreement, we are signing off the agreements including the ad agreement and then the advertisement begins for the next 3, 4 years. And then obviously, we are -- the overall -- overarching thing is, that we are hopefully expecting to have a decent IRR on our investment. So it's a classical investment model happening only through HMVL, and all our platforms are available to these advertisers in which -- in boost company, we go out and invest to make their investment.
And hence, we are extending our market share with these either new advertisers or with existing advertisers, we're taking up our market share. That's the underlying philosophy. Does that clarify your question, Yash?
Yes, yes, yes. But one more question, Piyush, we are seeing there is a very big heat, which is coming under OCI other comprehensive income. And then you have this forfeiture income, which you keep on showing now it is almost to the tune of INR 56 crores. That means what -- these deals are not worth and then you decide to open or...
No, no, no. So let me -- yes, no, no, no, not exactly. So Yash, look, accounting runs in a slightly different way. There are multiple lines in the P&L and balance sheet that gets impacted for accounting. So where does the forfeiture income come from? Forfeiture income comes from -- there are contractual obligations on the counterparty to use certain level of advertisement within paced manner. So in the first half, these are 5-year agreements, right? So there are some terms. So if a particular counterparty does not use certain level of advertising, that advertising is liable to be forfeited and there's a conversation which happens here. Now on the other side, this whole piece around OCI or base or the things that you are saying, typically comes when we exercise our options, various options.
We use different instruments to invest. It could be a convertible instrument, the valuations could be marked to the next round of fundraising. So there's a certain way in which accounting kicks in when you convert a CCPS to, let's say, equity and those things go into different lines. So don't think that these investments are worthless and hence, we are taking a charge thereof. But that's the way the accounting works. These are absolutely -- the only thing is we are waiting for the liquidity event right now once we have a line of sight that liquidity event will happen in the next 6 months, 1 year. We would like to convert our right to invest into pure equity so that we can get an exit and hence certain accounting lines get impacted. It doesn't mean at all that these investments are worthless at all.
So Piyush, can you throw some light out of the ad revenue that you have, how much is this revenue coming from ad against equity percentage-wise, if you can give roughly.
Less than 10%.
The next question is from the line of Vishal Bagadia.
Sir, if you could share the realization per copy for English and Hindi for the fourth quarter as well as the full financial year.
Vishal, it's competitively sensitive data. I can only tell you that the realization per copy for the fourth year and indeed for the full year is on an uptick cautiously, not just for us but for the industry as such. We are passing on some part of the increased input prices to our readers. But I wouldn't like to speak out that number because it's a competitively very sensitive thing.
Yes, no problem, sir. And sir, on the near-term, are we seeing that the prices would go up or would remain to similar levels as of now?
Are you talking about realization or are you talking about newsprint prices?
Newsprint prices.
Vishal, I was staring to one of your fellow participants earlier. We believe, given the confluence of multiple things at this point in time, the macro situation and the geopolitical situation that this commodity cycle will remain escalated at least for the next couple of quarters. So we believe that the pain will continue for the next 2 quarters. After that, it should stabilize and start coming down.
The next question is from the line of Hari.
Once again, sir -- regarding due to this COVID, this physical readership has gone down a lot. Is there any industry strategy in the company specific strategy to increase the physical readership again, sir?
Yes, Hari, that's a good question, Hari. So if you break down this whole pandemic after the first day, which was really in 2020, the copies itself came down very sharply. And as you know, the readership is a derived number out of the number of copies. Right now, at a broad level between English and Hindi, our copies are already tracking to between 70% to 80% of the pre-COVID levels depending upon which particular additions, which particular city or town, et cetera and readership is therefore tracking back. So what I only say and we are -- we are in a situation where we are gradually building up our copies. So I don't think readership per copy has gone down. What happened is the copies itself went down and hence the readership went down. I believe now this year, we will be covering that delta, which has remained from a pre-COVID level. A substantial part of that would be covered this year, and as the readership will also hopefully come to a pre-COVID level or near by the pre-COVID level by the end of this fiscal.
Thank you, all. With this, we come to the end of the Q&A session. If you have any further queries, please reach out to the Investor Relations team. Our contact details are given in the investor presentation and are also mentioned on our website. I now hand over to Piyush for closing remarks.
Thank you, moderator, and thanks to all the investors for participating in today's call. As you can see, we've -- in these [ prime ] times, we've got a decently good numbers across all our platforms, and we have growth plans, and we plan to come to you every quarter to showcase our performance, which we believe will be on the growth curve. We thank you for all your support, and we look forward to seeing you in the next quarter. Till then, remain safe and all the best to everyone. Thank you so much.