Motilal Oswal Financial Services Ltd

NSE:MOTILALOFS

Q4-2025 Earnings Call

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Motilal Oswal Financial Services Q4 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note, that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Manish Kayal from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

[Manish Kayal, executive]

Thank you, Sejal. Good afternoon, everyone, and a warm welcome to all the participants to Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited earnings call to discuss the results for Q4 and full year FY '25. I'm Manish Kayal, I head Investor Relations. We hope that you had an opportunity to go through our investor deck and the press release uploaded on the stock exchanges and on our website on Friday. We have also uploaded the detailed Excel data book on our website that has all the operational and financial numbers.

Before we proceed with this call, please note that today's discussion may include forward-looking statement. These forward-looking statements are based on current analysis and anticipation of the management. Actual results may vary and are subject to risks and uncertainties. We encourage you to consider these factors when evaluating our performance. On today's call, the company is represented by Mr. Motilal Oswal Ji, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Navin Agarwal, Group Managing Director; Mr. Ajay Menon, CEO for the Wealth Management business; Mr. Prateek Agrawal, MD and CEO, AMC Business; Mr. Ashish Shanker, CEO of the Private Wealth Management business; Mr. Sukesh Bhowal, CEO for the Housing Finance business; Mr. Shalibhadra Shah, Chief Financial Officer; and Sanchit Suneja, the Group Chief Strategy Officer. We'll start this call with an opening remark by Navin, and then we'll have a Q&A session.

Over to you, Navin.

[Navin Agarwal, executive]

Good afternoon, everyone. It is my pleasure to welcome all of you once again to our earnings call for the quarter and the year ended March '25 to discuss our company and the overall group's performance. Let me start by providing you a quick snapshot of the year at a group level and then highlight segment-wise performance of each of our businesses and conclude by giving you a broader outlook of where we think we are heading.

Starting with the full year performance, the FY '25 has been a very robust year. The group has witnessed market share gains across all capital market businesses, which I'll highlight in the business section. During the year, we have strengthened our moats by investing further in research, in talent, technology, brand and infrastructure to be future-ready. The strong business profitability and ROE affords us the luxury to make these significant investments, while continuing to report strong profit growth and return on equity. Our focus continues to increase our share of fee-based and trail-based revenues.

We've crossed a major milestone by servicing more than 12 million customers, comprising of 7.8 million unique mutual fund folios and 4.8 million plus unique broking accounts. Our operating revenue for the year stood at INR 5,161 crores is the first time we've crossed the INR 5,000 crore mark, up by 31%. And our operating profit stood at over INR 2,000 crores at INR 2,016 crores, again up by 31% year-on-year.

I want to highlight here that our decadal operating profit compounded growth is superior and is an industry best at 31%. For the fourth quarter, our operating revenue stood at INR 1,311 crores, up by 8% year-on-year, and operating profit stood at INR 519 crores, up by 3% again year-on-year. Our assets under advice crossed INR 5.5 lakh crore mark, up by 33% year-on-year. Our annual recurring revenue as a percentage of total net revenue grew by 56% at the end of FY '25. Our fee-based revenue contribution to our total revenues increased from 31% same time last year to 37% now.

We closed the year with, again, a record net worth of over INR 11,000 crores at INR 11,079 crores, up by 27% year-on-year. Our ROE stands at 25% for the fiscal year ending '25. These are not one-offs. I want to repeat as our decade net worth growth after consistently paying out over 20% of our profits as dividends and doing 3 buybacks since listing is a very robust 24% compounded growth in net worth without raising any capital, I want to repeat. And the decadal average return on equity is at 22%.

Turning now to our segmental performance, starting with the Wealth Management business. Our Wealth Management business continued its growth momentum. But as I highlighted earlier, we have a laser-sharp focus on growing our distribution business alongside the Broking Business as well. This is reflected in our FY '25 growth wherein our net flows grew 3x to over INR 10,000 crores in FY '25 on a Y-o-Y basis. Consequently, the book grew from INR 23,000 crores as of March '24 to over INR 31,000 crores in March '25, up by 33% Y-o-Y. And its contribution to the total revenues, which was 11% in the last year, moved up to 19% in FY '25.

We had highlighted that our cross-sell ratios leave a lot of headroom for us to improve this, that we have made substantial investments in manpower and regional and central leadership to drive this growth. And we would like to believe that the share of distribution in the total revenues of this business should continue to track up like they went up from 11% in FY '24 to 19% in FY '25.

Turning to our Brokerage business. Our retail cash broking ADTO was up by 36% on a year-on-year basis to INR 3,599 crores during FY '29 (sic) [ FY '25 ]. Our cash volume market share was at 7.6% in FY '25 compared to 7.4%. This number has been consistently going up during the course of the last 5 years, and you've seen an explosion in the Demat accounts. By way of context, our market share was at 5.6% in FY '21, and this number stands at 7.6% in FY '25.

Our F&O premium market share stands at 8.5% versus 8% in the last year. Our ADTO market share grew to 8.1% in FY '25 versus 7.9% in FY '24. So, every single line item within the brokerage volumes have seen an expansion in market share, both on a year-on-year basis, as well as over a 5-year basis. Our Q4 witnessed cash volume decline due to market corrections, which impacted our brokerage revenues. We also saw implementation of new F&O regulations, which we believe will only strengthen the competitive position of Motilal Oswal as a full-service broker in the marketplace. Third part of the Wealth Management business is the net interest income, which grew by 37% year-on-year due to higher lending book, as well as improvement in spreads from 5.9% in the previous year to 6.5% in the current year.

Turning to our Asset and Private Wealth business. The AMC business continued its strong momentum during the year with market share gains driven by strong investment performance. Coupled with expansion in our distribution presence, our gross flows grew by 290% year-on-year in FY '25 to INR 68,000 crores plus. We are confident that with the current run rate of flows that we've seen in the months of February, March and the early trends in the month of April, our AUM market share could continue to rise in FY '26 over the exiting FY '25 numbers. And this obviously has a meaningful impact on both the top line, as well as profitability of the asset management business.

This is despite the fact that we are starting off on a base of INR 1.23 lakh crores of AUM. In terms of net flows of the asset management business, it grew multifold to INR 5,191 crores -- from INR 5,191 crores last year to INR 48,450 crores by 10x, mainly due to out performance wherein 90% of the AUM that we manage for our clients performed better than the benchmark over the course of the past 12 months. And even over the course of the last 3 years, a substantial part of our AUM has beaten the benchmark by a healthy margin.

On SIPs, we've added 51 lakh SIPs in FY '25. Our SIP flow for FY '25 stood at INR 9,256 crores. This grew by 3x over the previous year, resulting in an AUM of SIP book of over INR 20,000 crores as of March '25. Our alternate AUM grew by 23% to over INR 28,000 crores as of March '25. We are now among the top players even in alternate flows, led by strong investment performance.

Turning to our Alternates business. Our PE business is among the very few domestic fees with strong IRRs over the last 18 years across the 4 growth funds that we manage. We have recently received the SEBI approval to launch our fifth private equity fund, wherein we are targeting to raise at least $900 million, which is 2x the size of our Fund IV, Series 4 fund. Our past funds have delivered strong IRR and expect the momentum to continue in our private equity business. This business has a fee-earning AUM of nearly INR 10,000 crores across growth capital funds and real estate funds. The market value of these funds stand at nearly INR 18,000 crores. We expect substantial amounts of carry on these funds across the 4 growth capital funds and the 5 real estate funds to be realized over the course of the life of these funds.

Turning to our Private Wealth Management business. During FY '25, we focused on senior hirings to further strengthen our leadership position. These efforts enhance our UHNI and family office proposition and positions us well to emerge as a leading player in the Private Wealth Management business in the coming years. Our current RM strength is 595, and we expect improvement in RM productivity as only 33% of this RM base has a vintage of over 3-plus years, which is a time period required to turn profitable on this RM base. We believe Private Wealth Management business will contribute larger share of profitability for the group in the coming years due to higher growth as we continue to penetrate more customers with differentiated products and services that the clients demand in this segment.

Turning to the Capital Market business. Our institutional equities business continues to increase research coverage as it is a fulcrum of the group. We have a strong team of 140-plus employees covering 300 companies in 24 sectors. We cover 73% of the market cap and service over 880 domestic and overseas institutional clients.

Turning to our Investment Banking business. This business had a very strong year. We successfully completed 39 deals, with a cumulative issuance of INR 51,000 crores last year. We were ranked #1 in QIP league tables and ranked #3 in terms of the total number of IPOs filed last year. We've strengthened our team over the past few quarters across both these businesses. We continue to increase research coverage in IE, as well as our IB pipeline is more than 2x the revenues that we booked in FY '25, providing us reasonably strong visibility of growth in this business, notwithstanding the recent volatility that we've seen in the marketplace.

Turning to our Housing Finance business. This business too had a strong year. Our SalesRM force increased to 1,329, up by nearly 40% year-on-year. Our disbursements grew by 78% to INR 1,794 crores. This resulted in the business achieving an AUM of INR 4,900 crores, which is up by 20%. We believe strongly that we have all the building blocks in place for the next 2 to 3 years of reasonably strong growth in our AUMs and profitability as we start converting these RM base that we've added to productivity. Our GNPAs and NNPAs are at 0.8% and 0.4% respectively as of March '25, with a team in place, with a strong capital adequacy ratio with internal accruals that are available to be redeployed and with potential upgrade in the group's rating, bringing down the cost of funds further, we believe that this business is very well poised.

Turning to the Treasury Investments. Our total equity investments, including alternatives grew by INR 7,730 crores as of March '25, which is up by 26%. This investment has delivered a healthy ex-IRR, the total IRR during the course of the -- over the life of the investments of nearly 18%, including the investment of cash flows. The treasury investments have grown by 42% compounded over the course of the last decade.

We have highlighted that this growth in the coming decade should be similar and not dramatically different. We believe that our treasury investments will continue to deliver strong IRRs over longer term and also provide cushion to our operating business growth and reduce our need to raise external equity. In the last decade, the contribution of treasury PAT to our net worth has been 20%. And while operating profits continue to compound at robust rates, I dare to make a forecast that the next decade's contribution of mark-to-market profits on treasury to our net worth could far outstrip the contribution of operating profit itself due to the magic of compounding.

Turning to the outlook. As you can see with strong growth drivers for all our businesses, which I highlighted, we believe that the Motilal Oswal Group is very well placed to benefit from financialization theme, which is a long-term mega trend. This trend is expected to play out over several decades, especially in India and given the low penetration of investment products and services, we believe that we are well poised.

These structural drivers position us to benefit from a projected 10x increase in cumulative household savings from INR 14 trillion that we estimate for the last 25 years to over $125 trillion in the next 25 years, coupled with higher share of financial savings, rising allocation to equities and alternatives, increased concentration of wealth. All our capital market businesses, including Wealth Management, Asset Management, Private Wealth, Alternatives, Institutional Equities and Investment Banking already hold leading market positions, but many of them still have a lot of headroom to further increase the market salience and market share. With these strong tailwinds, we are confident of continuing to deliver strong profitability growth just as we have in the past, while maintaining a consistent dividend payout.

We'll now open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Vivek Ramakrishnan from DSP Mutual Fund.

[Vivek Ramakrishnan, analyst]

The questions are in your loan against share and margin trading funding, I just wanted to know the size of the book and what kind of gearing you use in those companies? And now the second question is common for both the home loan business, as well as this LAS book. With the falling interest rates, do you expect margin expansion, especially in the LAS book? And how do you expect the interest rate transmission to happen in the home loan book? Those are my questions.

[Operator]

Sir, your line is unmuted?

[Shalibhadra Shah, executive]

Shalibhadra here. The book size total on the lending is on both the MTF and loan against securities is INR 7,000 crores. MTF is INR 5,000 crores and INR 2,000 crores is lending against securities. Our overall leverage stands at 1x. If you exclude the housing, our net gearing is just 1x on the total network deployed in loan against securities and MTF book.

Sorry, Vivek, you could repeat your second question?

[Vivek Ramakrishnan, analyst]

Sure. It's on the interest rates have come down. So in this -- both this loan against share MTF book, as well as in your home loan book, how will the interest rate declines get transmitted? And do you expect margin expansion where you'll hold a little bit better margins because you had a margin squeeze, especially in the LAS book when the interest rates went up.

[Shalibhadra Shah, executive]

Yes. So if you look at our incremental cost of funds is now 50 basis lower than the overall cost currently. So we are already seeing the impact of the rate cycle favorable coming to us on both of these, whether it is on the margin trade finance segment or on the housing finance. So to that extent, we will see the betterment of spreads and margins in the coming periods going forward.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Uday Pai from Investec.

[Uday Pai, analyst]

I just had a couple of question. First one is that for the last 2 quarters, we have seen cash market share coming down significantly. I remember in the last call, you mentioned that your customers tend to trade lower in a volatile market. Can you give some more color on this phenomena? Why are you losing market share in the cash segment specifically? That's the first. And secondly, on the disbursement run rate in HFC, is there a one-off in this quarter? Or do we see similar kind of run rate going forward? Those are the 2 questions.

[Shalibhadra Shah, executive]

See, as far as the cash market share is concerned, so when market is volatile, typically, our segment is advisory driven and advisers don't give much calls to the customers because they want to also maintain a long-term relationship. So the whole -- when market is volatile, you may see some bit of blip on the cash market share where there would be some impact. But I think if you look at our market share over the last 2, 3 years, that has actually directionally gained every year. Even in the last financial year, overall market share has been up.

Coming to the housing finance disbursement. So housing finance disbursement is -- if you see continuously every quarter, our rate of disbursement has been growing. And so if you look at FY '24 over FY '23, we had grown by 70%. Again, FY '25 over FY '24 is also up again up 70%. And we had already guided that our AUM is expected to grow at 20%, and that's what we have achieved in FY '25. And again, we are creating a base of higher RMs by almost about 35% increase in the capacity over next financial year, which would further increase the run rate of our disbursement growth.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Mahek from Emkay Global.

[Mahek Shah, analyst]

A couple of questions. So first is on the Wealth Management business. So if I look at the distribution income, the Q-o-Q revenue growth remains substantially high as compared to the flat asset growth. So I just wanted to understand if this strong growth in the distribution income is likely led by the insurance products. Second is on the Private Wealth Management business. So if you look at the Q4 FY '25, the performance has not been that great, if I compare it on a Q-o-Q basis. The distribution revenue is down 30%, while the PAT is down 23%. So just wanted to understand what was driving this weak performance for the Private Wealth Management business. And lastly, at the consolidated level, if I look at the employee cost, the employee cost has grown for the first 3 quarters of the year from INR 387 crores to INR 453 crores in Q3. So, just wanted to understand, what resulted in the decline in the employee cost in the quarter 4 to INR 420 crores. 3 questions from my side.

[Shalibhadra Shah, executive]

Yes. So, thanks, Mahek. So to answer your first question on the distribution side, see, we have been continuously talking about how we are increasing our focus on the distribution business. And that's what is happening where the net flows are almost 3x on a full year basis and distribution assets have also grown by 33% on a Y-o-Y basis, which has led to surge in the distribution revenues. So more specifically, even on quarter 4 of this year, the distribution revenues have grown basically on account of a couple of reasons. So one is, of course, the ARR revenues are also up. Secondly, the transaction-driven revenues, if we actually look at the composition of that, it mainly represents secondary market transactions, which have happened. It also represents insurance higher transactions because generally quarter 4 is also based where insurance revenues are also higher. But all of these on a Y-o-Y basis have doubled. So that's where the growth in the entire distribution revenue is -- is looking very large. And this is what has been the focus to the dedicated team that we have put in place.

Coming to the Private Wealth segment on the distribution revenues. So again, I think last quarter also, we had talked about that, that quarter 3 included some bit of transactions on the co-investment space where there was a lumpy revenue of transactions in the Private Wealth segment. So that has normalized in quarter 4. So we'll see the impact of that resulting in reduction in the transaction revenues in the quarter 4 for Private Wealth. However, overall, this business has also grown both on ARR and transaction revenues on a Y-o-Y basis, resulting in the strong base of the opening ARR assets for building in the next year's growth.

On the employee cost front at the consolidated level, in the first 3 quarters, you would have seen how strong our overall operating performance has been, and we had always provided for the variable amounts in all of these quarters. So first 9 months, we had already catched up for the betterment of the overall performance for the entire year and some bit of marginal reversal has happened in quarter 4 in the variable numbers given the performance of quarter 4 as well. And that is one of the reasons you'd see the overall employee cost lower in quarter 4 than the earlier quarters. However, people cost to revenue, if you look at it, has been flat on a full year basis.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Shreyas Pimple from JM Financial.

[Shreyas Pimple, analyst]

Yes. So my question was in the AMC business. If you look at mutual fund AUM on closing basis and average basis, the mutual fund AUM on closing basis has gone down, while on average basis, it has gone up. So, do you expect going ahead the average AUM also coming down in Q1, Q2?

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

So, lot of [Technical Difficulty] RO markets have, we got a bad Jan and Feb. So while the closing March was better, so it's to do with how markets have moved. Now from March end AUM, if April is positive, then you should expect accordingly and vice versa.

[Navin Agarwal, executive]

Just to add, our current AUM is now nearly lifetime high. It's about 2% short of that. So, you can get an idea in terms of -- and we guided that our market share in net sales continue to improve. So while the overall industry flows are lower, we'll still continue to have reasonable market share out of those lower volume. So the absolute numbers still continue to add to the monthly AUM also.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Rohan Advant from Prad Capital.

[Rohan Advant, analyst]

Sir, most of my questions have been answered. Just on the revenue front, we've reported INR 288 crores in this quarter. Has all the impact of the rule changes been reflected for the full quarter or there is any further tailwind that remains to be factored into the book revenue line item?

[Shalibhadra Shah, executive]

So brokerage revenue line item is already factoring all the regulatory changes, which have come on -- especially on the F&O side of the business. So we see the full impact of that coming in this quarter.

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

Market volatility accompanying these regulatory changes over the course of the last, if you see 5 months ending March and the impact of that on both F&O as well as cash volumes. So I think this is -- all of these bundled together happening in a space of 4 to 5 months.

[Rohan Advant, analyst]

Understood. And sir, just one question as a follow-up on the distribution revenue you reported under Wealth Management segment of INR 187 crores. If I relate it to the distribution AUM, it translate to a 2.4% yield. So that seems very high relative to our past. And I get that you've added RMs and that's caused uptick. But what kind of a yield is more sustainable on this?

[Shalibhadra Shah, executive]

See, typically, distribution, if you look at our overall yields are at 110 basis points, yes, in this business. And typically, one should look at the yields on the flows, not on the -- if you're looking at the transaction revenues and the yield is to be looked at on the flows. And we have seen substantial rise in the flows because this quarter itself was about INR 4,000 crores of net flows in this business. So we calculate the yield on the flows. At the same time, because as I guided that the impact in quarter 4 was because of the revenues on the secondary market transactions on the private securities and as well as the insurance where the yield is higher. So because of that mix, quarter 4 would show a higher yield to that extent. But on a normalized basis, for the entire year, the yield is 110 basis, which is sustainable.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Nidhesh Jain from Investec.

[Nidhesh Jain, analyst]

Sir, 2 questions. Firstly, on the Housing Finance, is there any update on our stance of demerging that entity or monetizing that stake in the Housing Finance business? That is first question. Second question is on, sir, on technology, et cetera. We are seeing significant changes on the technology side across all businesses. And I think financial service business will be -- will also be significantly changed over next 5 to 10 years because of the changes in technology. So how are we preparing for those changes? How much investment we are making? What is the profile of our technology team, who is heading that team? And how do we -- how are you preparing for that?

[Navin Agarwal, executive]

So, as far as the Housing Finance business is concerned, we gave you a business update already. We are looking at continued strong growth, and we have a very strong leadership team in place. And we have all the options open, whether it is in terms of stake monetization, eventual IPO, et cetera, as we have articulated in the conference calls in the past. At this point in time, we don't have any update as of the last quarter on any of those, but we'll keep you posted as we have any updates in the current financial year.

Turning to the tech talent. We have quite a few...

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

Technology, our group CTO is Pankaj and he has been with us for last 22 years in the group, he's very well experienced, and we have IT team of over 800-plus people catering to all the businesses in the group. And if you look at our digital journey across each of the businesses, we are very well aligned to take care of the scalability across each business to the technology medium.

In terms of our spends also, we spend almost about 4.5%, 5% of our net revenues on technology, and this number is growing. Over last year, this number is up almost 100 basis. Even in the current financial year, we have a very strong IT budget, which we keep spending to scale up our businesses, including security and all. So that's how we are well positioned for our scalability through the digital means as well.

[Navin Agarwal, executive]

In fact, just to add, in the year ending March '25, 2 line items which have seen very or 3 line items which have seen very strong growth which may not necessarily have its impact on the same financial year. As Shalibhadra mentioned, our technology cost is up by 100 basis points as a proportion of the revenues year-on-year. Same is the case with our marketing costs this year, substantially higher spend on that. And the third is the leadership strengthening that we've done both across business, as well as support functions. I think all 3 have led to giving away a lot of the operating leverage that a strong top line growth could have given us in the current year. So we are hopeful that some of these investments will make a big difference. As I mentioned, the leadership positions include Sanchit is on this call, the Group Chief Strategy Officer, the Chief Marketing Officer, the strengthening of the technology team in a big way. And even in the -- at the business level, several senior people I think that's happening there.

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

See just to add, we also have created few new positions in the technology as part of Pankaj's team. We have Group Head AI joined from a global firm. We also have a technology research team separately kind of I think for the first time, we've added these positions. And I think we have absolutely invested a lot, a lot into new and new technology to make sure that we remain edge. Our app is also one of the best rated now with new app rise being kind of launched for the first time. So it all kind of are there to make sure that we remain one of the best technology added by the best of wealth in manpower.

[Rohan Advant, analyst]

Sure, sir. Just one more question, sir. If you look at the Wealth Management business, the share of our direct channel has been going up and the share of B2B is coming down. So, is there any difference that we are moving -- we are focusing more on direct channel versus the AP channel in that business?

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

See, every channel has different people heading it and we always look at kind of thing trying to make sure that wherever we want to invest more, we just, I think, put more focus on that. But we have no preference for direct versus indirect because indirect is ways to reach to the nooks and corners of the country, while direct branches will be only into large cities, yes.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citigroup.

[Dipanjan Ghosh, analyst]

A few questions from my side. First, on your Wealth Management and Private Wealth business separately, if you can give some color of the quality of the transactional revenue, not for fourth quarter, but maybe more on a steady-state basis, what's the mix between insurance, secondary market transactions, fixed income transactions some color on that? And how do you see the market activity levels incrementally? My second question is on the distribution MS assets, both in Wealth Management and Private Wealth and especially in Wealth Management. On a closing basis, it seems that the mark-to-market movement is a little bit higher than the industry averages. So just wanted to get some sense of 2 things. One is, is distributed assets a little bit more skewed towards SMID, small and mid-cap and also what is the share of your own AUM or in-house AUM within the distributed assets for both Wealth and Private Wealth? And third question, while the overall flows might have been a little bit here and there over the last quarter, but in terms of new family additions on the Private Wealth side, you have done decently well. So I wanted to get some color on incrementally, how are you seeing the pipeline of both fresh flows coming in from these newly acquired clients also new clients coming into the ecosystem on the Private Wealth side? So those are my 3 questions.

[Navin Agarwal, executive]

Thanks, Dipanjan. So basically, a few high-level trends that you may want to make note of. We have been guiding that our cross-sell ratios are quite low at particularly in the Wealth Management business and that there is a lot of headroom, right? This was something that we would have said 2, 3 years ago. And then if you listen to the same con call last year, we highlighted to you that we already have substantially augmented the team and the leadership for the distribution business. So this was already always an opportunity for us, but we also put a lot of resources behind this opportunity over the course of the last 18 months. So FY '25, it is the first year of realization of some of those benefits, but we believe that this is something that can continue for multiple years. So that is one resource augmentation and tapping this opportunity, which was latent in the business where the accounts were already there, the Demat balances are already there.

The second thing that we had highlighted to you earlier is that we are a big believer in the rise of alternatives, while the mutual fund AUM continues to rise. So basically, we actively manage part of the wealth of India, which itself is expected to go up many fold. And within that, the share of alternates is expected to continue to rise.

Now what is happening in this process is that the yields on some of these products would be higher than the traditional products. The advent of secondary market in unlisted companies, which is a big phenomena in many parts of the world, particularly in the U.S., is something that has also been rising in India. And you have more and more companies that are becoming relevant for people to start, particularly the affluent and the high net worth individuals to start looking at.

So basically, it's a mix of both, a lot more effort, a lot more resources and how the market is evolving and how we are positioned overall within that market to tap this opportunity. You will always see quarter-on-quarter volatility in these revenue streams, lumpiness of insurance in the fourth quarter, certain unlisted opportunities or co-investment opportunities spiking up in a particular quarter. But directionally, if you ask me, FY '25 was much bigger than FY '24. I have no reason to believe FY '26, '27, '28 will each be much bigger than the respective previous years because of these trends that are really unfolding.

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

Yes. As far as the AUM captive AUM is concerned, so on the Wealth Management space, the captive AUM is 31%. And on the Private Wealth, it is 10%.

[Navin Agarwal, executive]

As far as the mark-to-market of this AUM being higher than the peers, actually, I mean, think, as we think Motilal Oswal is a important tagline for the group. And the share of equities, while we are very upbeat on the share of fixed income in our overall AUM and where the lot of effort is being put in there. We have a separate Head of Fixed Income within the Private Wealth business that has been appointed. And the fixed income AUM is also growing, but we are more indexed to the equity AUM. And as you see, the last 5 years, 3 years have seen very strong performance of equity AUM versus the fixed income AUM. And hence, the mark-to-market on that AUM has also been higher than the peers.

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

One more point. As regards to the number of families, we've grown the total relationships by 25% in FY '25 over FY '24. And like Navin mentioned, the kind of products that we are launching allows us to get a foothold into the largest families in India. So the quality of client addition has been significantly better than the previous years. And we expect it to be even bigger in the coming years.

[Dipanjan Ghosh, analyst]

Just maybe if I can get 1 or 2 follow-ups.

[Motilal Oswal, executive]

Yes.

[Dipanjan Ghosh, analyst]

Sure. So one -- on the first question on the transactional revenue, I appreciate the efforts, but just wanted to get some sense of the mix in terms of in a normal year. I mean, I understand there will be volatilities, but would it be like a secondary market would be like 30%, 40% of the TBR or maybe insurance is like 10%, 20%. So if you can give some color on that? And second, this is one question on the Private Wealth business and maybe I can recheck my calculations, but it seems that there has been some significant mark-to-market hit on the seed funding that you have done in that in terms of the manufacturing of all the products. So these are my last 2 questions.

[Navin Agarwal, executive]

So again, as far as the mix of the distribution income is concerned, I mean, really, even if you anchor yourself to secondary being X insurance being Y, trail being Z, broking being A, I think we see meaningful changes depending on how the market themselves behave on a year-to-year basis. So really, I would say the -- I mean, at a broader level, the way I'd like to guide you is that at least for the Wealth Management part of the business, the broking -- the distribution income should continue to grow strongly. And the overall Wealth Management business is -- Private Wealth business is, as you can see, highly under indexed in terms of how much gap there is between the leader and us. So I think the headroom to grow in that business is quite substantial. I know it doesn't answer your question about trying to get the exact split of the distribution income, which we've not shared in the past, but that mix itself may be quite volatile from a year-to-year basis.

On the other question on the Private Wealth business, Ashish?

[Ashish Shanker, executive]

I think it's a function of markets as well, Jan and Feb were bad and like Navin mentioned that we are quite indexed to the equity market. So that's why from an AUM point of view, you don't see the kind of growth that we probably got last Q4.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions from the participants, with that, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shalibhadra Shah for closing comments.

[Shalibhadra Shah, executive]

On behalf of Motilal Oswal Financial Services, I would like to thank every participant for attending the Q4 FY '25 con call. In case of any further queries, please do get in touch with our Investor Relations desk. Thank you, and have a good day.

[Operator]

Thank you. On behalf of Motilal Oswal Financial Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.