Quanta Services Inc
NYSE:PWR
Quanta Services Inc
NYSE:PWR
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Earnings Call Transcript
Earnings Call Recording
Other Earnings Calls
Good morning, and welcome to the Quanta Services Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. If you have any objections, please disconnect at this time.
I will now turn the call over to Kip Rupp, Vice President of Investor Relations for introductory remarks.
Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to the Quanta Services Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Earnings Conference Call. This morning, we issued a press release announcing our fourth quarter and full year 2024 results, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website at quantaservices.com. This morning, we also posted our fourth quarter and full year 2024 operational and financial commentary, and our 2025 outlook expectation summary on Quanta's Investor Relations website. While management will make brief introductory remarks during this morning's call, the operational and financial commentary is intended to largely replace management's prepared remarks, allowing additional time for questions from the institutional investment community.
Please remember that information reported on this call speaks only as of today, February 20, 2025, and therefore, you are advised that any time-sensitive information may no longer be accurate as of any replay of this call. This call will include forward-looking statements and information intended to qualify under the safe harbor from liability established by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including statements reflecting expectations, intentions, assumptions or beliefs about future events or financial performance that do not solely relate to historical and current facts. You should not place undue reliance on these statements as they involve certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict or beyond Quanta's control, and actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied.
We'll also present certain historical and forecasted non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release and operational and financial commentary. Please refer to these documents for additional information regarding our forward-looking statements and non-GAAP financial measures.
Lastly, please sign up for e-mail alerts through the Investor Relations section of quantaservices.com, to receive notifications of news releases and other information and follow Quanta IR and Quanta Services on the social media channels listed on our website.
With that, I would like to now turn the call over to Mr. Duke Austin, Quanta's President and CEO. Duke?
Thanks, Kip. This morning, we reported our fourth quarter and full year 2024 results, which included double-digit growth in revenues and earnings and a number of record financial metrics. Our backlog at year-end was $34.5 billion, and notably, Renewable Energy Infrastructure Solutions segment, 12-month and total backlog achieved all-time highs. Our ability to deliver consistent profitable growth is a testament to the strength of our portfolio approach, a diversified solutions-based strategy that enables us to adapt to evolving industry dynamics while delivering mission-critical infrastructure.
Quanta has produced record revenues 7 of the last 8 years, 7 consecutive years of record adjusted EBITDA and 8 consecutive years of record adjusted diluted earnings per share. These results were made possible by our more than 58,000 dedicated employees and our industry-leading operational and financial platform.
2024 was another successful year for Quanta strategically, operationally and financially. And while there are always areas for improvement, we are proud of our many accomplishments during this year, and we continue to look forward with excitement towards the multiyear strategic initiatives we are working on, and the goals we expect to achieve in this and the coming years. We continue to see significant opportunity to advance our growth strategy and are pacing well against our multiyear financial targets, including double-digit EPS growth and double-digit returns.
Our strategic initiatives are enhancing our service lines and capabilities while also expanding our customer base and therefore, enlarging our total addressable market opportunity for both organic growth and strategic capital deployment. The energy and infrastructure landscape is undergoing a fundamental transformation, and Quanta is positioned at its center. Utilities across the United States are experiencing and forecasting meaningful increases in power demand for the first time in 2 decades, which is being driven by the adoption of new technologies and related infrastructure, including data centers and artificial intelligence. The energy transition and policies intended to strategically reinforce domestic manufacturing and supply chain resources.
This increasing demand coupled with tightening power generation capacity underscores the urgent need for large-scale grid modernization and energy infrastructure development. Quanta's portfolio approach uniquely positions us to support our clients as they navigate this evolving landscape. Our diversified service lines, self-perform capabilities and craft skill workforce give us the flexibility to deploy resources where they create the most value across geographies, industries and service lines. We believe our collaborative solution-based approach is valued by our clients more than ever.
We are positioning Quanta for decades of expected necessary infrastructure investment and believe our service line diversity creates platforms for growth that expand our total addressable market. Our portfolio approach and focus on craft-skilled labor is a strategic advantage that provides us the ability to manage risk and shift resources across service lines and geographies, which we believe will become increasingly important as load growth, electrification and the energy transition accelerates. We believe our portfolio approach positions us well to allocate resources to opportunities we find the most economically attractive, and to achieve operating efficiencies in consistent financial results.
I will now turn the call over to Jayshree Desai, Quanta's CFO, to provide a few remarks about our results and 2025 guidance, and then we will take your questions. Jayshree?
Thanks, Duke, and good morning, everyone. Quanta completed the year with fourth quarter revenues of $6.6 billion, net income attributable to common stock of $305.1 million, or $2.03 per diluted share, and adjusted diluted earnings per share of $2.94. Adjusted EBITDA was $737.8 million, or 11.3% of revenues.
Of note, our cash flow in the fourth quarter and for the full year exceeded the upper end of our free cash flow guidance expectations. For the fourth quarter and full year 2024, we had free cash flow of $575.4 million and $1.6 billion, respectively, with our full year free cash flow a record. Our earnings and cash flow performance allowed us to end the fourth quarter with ample liquidity and a balance sheet that supports both our organic growth expectations and the opportunistic investment of capital to generate incremental returns for our stockholders. To that end, subsequent to the end of 2024, we acquired 2 companies for aggregate upfront consideration of approximately $562 million of cash and stock.
This morning, we provided our full year 2025 financial expectations, which called for another year of profitable growth, with record revenues, improved margins and opportunity for double-digit growth in adjusted EBITDA and adjusted earnings per share. We believe our expectations demonstrate the strength of our portfolio approach to the business, our commitment to our long-term strategy, our favorable end market trends and our competitive position in the marketplace.
As mentioned in our earnings release, beginning with 3 months ending March 31, 2025, we will report our results under 2 reportable [indiscernible] segments. Electric Infrastructure Solutions and underground utility and infrastructure solutions. The new Electric Infrastructure Solutions segment combines the previous electric power infrastructure solutions and Renewable Energy Infrastructure Solutions segments. This new segment reporting reflects how the business is managed and resources are allocated and better reflects the positioning of our strategies and comprehensive solutions for our growing and increasingly converging addressable markets. Additional details and commentary about our 2025 financial guidance can be found in our operational and financial commentary and outlook expectations summary, both of which are posted on our IR website.
In summary, we are executing well on our strategic plan and are pacing well against our multiyear financial targets, including double-digit EPS growth and double-digit returns. We ended 2024 with record backlog, and our end markets have never been better, and we see opportunity for further strength in the coming years.
With that, we are happy to answer your questions. Operator?
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Chad Dillard with Bernstein.
So just a big picture question here. So what does the shift from investing and training data centers to entrance mean for Quanta? And the broader grid? Is there any difference in lever needs, design approach, grid use? Is it a positive, negative or net neutral?
I mean when we look at data centers and what it does, like before AI, there was still significant demand. After AI, there's more demand. How much demand, I don't know.
What I do see is we see firm commitments of generation at our customer level, you can look at it, you can point to it. It's well over 50 gigs, in the 100 gigs, honestly. So when you see those -- that type of demand on energy, the type of data centers and how you're looking at it, we're not looking at it in that way. We're just seeing the demand on our infrastructure and what we need to build. We're booking backlog against it. So we just see a great market there. And from DeepSeek to AI chips and what that does, we're not concerned with that at this point. We just see that demand is firm.
That's helpful. And just second question, just on the recent M&A that you guys did. So I guess, first of all, like what sort of revenue contribution should we be baking in for '25?
And then on the civil business, how are you thinking about the mix of business going forward? Is this meant to support Quanta's core business? Or are there the other like ancillary verticals that you're going to be operating in?
And then on the Australia expansion, I guess, like what's your long-term view on Australia as an attractive market? And I guess, what is the market structure? And how is a Quanta positioned there with this acquisition?
Yes. So the -- basically, the [ Civil ] Solution business, I think from my standpoint, the DNA, the culture of the company, we've known them a long time, known them for decades. I passed by their office, my whole career. So I know the family, it's a great family business that fits our DNA. And it also is something that the company itself has synergies against that, obviously, we don't put those in the deal.
I feel like when we look at those solutions that we can provide, it gives us a holistic approach, our customers are asking for it. We can deliver it on a holistic basis and really add value to the overall solutions of what we're trying to accomplish. If you look at a 1,000 acre solar site, look at 1,000 acre -- 10,000-acre data center, you look at all the things that we do and try to provide solutions to, whether it's LNG sites, it doesn't matter. We will take the assets, the people, which are the core to it and go and deliver against our own business as well as others. So it's a solution that people are asking for, and we want to be holistic when we look at it, self-perform more capabilities and give ourselves more flexibility as we look at the markets.
In Australia, we continue to invest in Australia. The front side of the business down there is something that we've said all along that we'll continue to invest in. Great companies, great markets. We're market leaders in the renewable business down in Australia. We like it long term, and we feel like we can continue to invest in the country.
So great rule of law and obviously gives us a lot of flexibility. So we're excited about that market as well. I'll let Jayshree comment on the revenues.
We don't contribute -- we're not going to discuss any individual acquisition, but we'll tell you that the 2 acquisitions, the majority of it is captured in our [indiscernible] segment, and we did give you guidance in that around what the inorganic contribution in our guide is related to that.
Our next question will come from Ati Modak with Goldman Sachs.
Maybe I was wondering if you can provide some color on the margin performance in the electric power segment, the factors that drove that? And how much of the margin improvement should we consider as structural going forward?
Yes. I mean, we executed well in the quarter. We've done some acquisitions there with [ Cupertino ] that are in this segment. Obviously, had a lower margin profile but a better return. So I do think when we look at it, the margins that we've stated in the past, 10.5%, 11% type framework, [ 12% in the outer ] years where if you got a lot of utilizations and things of that nature in the business.
But in general, we said all along, it was back half loaded. We felt like the electric business is going to be strong in the second half. It was. I can only say that we have the field and the personnel that we have out there and the structures that we put together is what's delivering it. And I think as we see the markets, we'll continue to deliver earnings in the 10.5%, 11% range in this segment. That's basically where we're at and where we'll be on a go-forward basis.
So I think no matter what we do in that segment, that's kind of how you should look at the framework going forward. Yes, there will be some years that are above it due to some factors here or there. But given what we see in the market, that's kind of the framework we see going forward, 10.5%, 11%.
Yes. I think also just to add to -- if you look at our electric segment, you're seeing us at over 10%, and that's after taking into consideration that we have reduced storm from where we were in 2024. It takes out the Peru impact. And even with that, we're still in double-digit segment revenue. And I think that you should take comfort that we're going to continue operating at that level and the performance of the company from last year is going to go into 2025 as well.
Our next question will come from the line of Jamie Cook with Truist Securities.
I guess my first question, Duke, if you could frame the expectations for backlog growth in [ '25 ]. And in particular, can you talk to potential synergies or big awards [indiscernible] could be [ Cupertino ]. I know you guys were very successful with revenue synergies associated with Blattner, I'm just trying to understand what's going on with Cupertino and is that an opportunity for larger awards in 2025?
But my second question, Jayshree, just -- and I'm sorry if you missed this, I know on the cash flow guide, you sort of talked to it being more back-end loaded. Just how do we think about first half versus back half and what's driving that?
Thanks, Jamie. I think when we look at the business in totality, when we buy these platform companies, we don't build synergies into the discussions that we have or the way we value them. But what we do see is when the total adjustable market of TAMs on the business are something that goes unnoticed, the customer base goes unnoticed. Those synergies show up. And you've seen them with Blattner as we've gotten further along in the balance of plant, the things that we're able to do with these type customers because there's a convergence between technology, utilities and the way we look at the data centers. And so the way that we're looking at the business certainly looks different, and those markets are different.
If you just look at the tech CapEx and you look at utility CapEx. Utility CapEx is $200 billion plus. And then now Technologies $300 billion plus, but probably, let's just call it, $150 billion in North America. The addressable markets that Quanta serves and how we converge in the nexus of the middle of it really puts us in a different position on larger projects. So I expect our backlog to be at record levels. It could CAGR at record levels. It wouldn't surprise me. But I do expect us to be at record levels throughout the year. I can't tell you exactly -- you know how the backlog looks. So I can't tell you exactly when that will happen, but what I see bigger projects.
The -- our ability to perform solutions is something that's unnoticed to the investment community. We are a solutions provider, I'll say it again, solutions provider. And what we do in those solutions that we provide and how we collaborate with that customer will allow us to -- and our addressable market is only getting bigger. So it just allows us more opportunity. And I think we see it. We see it showing up. Super excited about where we sit and the strategies that we have going forward against that solution-based how we use craft-skill and engineering in that solution.
So yes, I mean, I fully expect us to book larger projects, but we'll continue the base business. We are not taking our eye off that either. So Jayshree?
Jamie -- sorry, go ahead.
No, I was just going to say specific to Cupertino is the question to Duke. Like anything specific to Cupertino in terms of a revenue center, larger awards in 2025?
I think I inferred that. But yes, absolutely.
Okay. Sorry Jayshree. Go on the cash flow question.
Yes. On free cash flow, it's our typical profile, Jamie. It will be back half weighted. I wouldn't expect too much in the first half, just given the nature of how our business operates. So I think you'll see similar cadence to what we've done in the last couple of years.
Our next question will come from Steven Fisher with UBS.
It was helpful to have the guidance for upper single-digit growth in generation versus the mid-singles and high and low voltage. Just curious, directionally, if you can give us a sense of what those growth rates were in 2024, so we can kind of see how it compares year-over-year?
And then just kind of looking beyond '25 conceptually, do you think generation should still grow kind of above the high and low voltage rate for the next couple of years? Or is this sort of like the renewables piece kind of driving generation, which is going to slow down while the grid part should be accelerating and those streams will cross, if you will?
Yes, Steve. I mean I think you're seeing growth across the business. You're seeing [ the ] EPS line at the midpoint, what is it 16% at the midpoint of EPS, and you're seeing growth on the top line, call it organic growth, 6% to 7%, 10%, if you look at the whole company on the top. So we're seeing growth.
One of the reasons that we're going to one segment is how we run the business. And we feel like that the convergence of the business, we spoke a lot last year around T&D. Actually, I explained it for 4 months that our transmission and distribution crews [ across ] segments. It was very confusing the investment community. It's not how we run the business. So we put it together. So for us to go in and tell you how much generation growth or what is that? Because there's substations, there's all kinds of different things.
Our people cross from data centers to chip plants to hospitals, clean rooms, we move all across. So we're going to optimize our people against the markets. We're not making any specific manufacturing -- anything manufacturing where it's only specific to one segment or one TAM. I mean we're addressing across a large customer base. So we like the way we're set up. And we're not going to get into guidance on little pieces of the segment because it doesn't matter to us. What matters is the markets are growing, all the business is growing. We're putting up at the midpoint of the range, 10-plus. You see growth all across it. So we feel like that all the markets that we're in are growing, and we can move and be nimble across them and provide those solutions that we've discussed on a go-forward basis. It's how we're going to run the business, how we're going to talk about the business.
And we have growth. And we see growth. You can see the backlog. I welcome you to look at the backlog and see what we put up in the Renewables segment alone, which I believe we said that last quarter that we would put it up and we did. And those kind of numbers are staying there, and they're not just 12-month backlog. It's long-term backlog in the '26, '27 and '28. So we see growth, and I think you can comfort yourself on the demand you see for generation. It's just a supply and demand issue we've said this, like the demand on generation, it doesn't matter. It's going to be renewables, it's going to be gas fire generation. It's going to continue, and you can see it, it's right there. And then we're talking about it daily.
So we're optimistic. We like the growth. We're not going to get into the little pieces of the segment. That's not who we are. We're a solution provider.
Our next question will come from the line of Julien Dumoulin-Smith with Jefferies.
Maybe just to come back to that last point here briefly. Just on the renewable front real quickly. As you think about some of the headlines here under the new administration, can you speak a little bit to your confidence in the execution on the SunZia project specifically? Both in terms of operations, the permit considerations across federal lands. I suspect it's largely intact, but just wanted to make sure we've checked that off.
And then separately and related here, as you think about this resegmentation, I think you were alluding to it a moment ago, but if you weren't to resegment, right, again, just to use the hypothetical and brief, can you speak as to how that backlog would translate into compounding revenue as it stands today?
I suspect some folks are looking at this and saying, well, is there something about a deceleration in the renewables business, clearly, the backlog data point today would suggest otherwise. But if you can speak to that even more clearly than you just alluded to a moment ago. I appreciate it.
Julien thanks. SunZia, first of all, like we're doing great. We're progressing well. I fully expect us to complete. We're not seeing any permitting issues on -- we're well past that. And I want to talk a little bit about SunZia because I think people are worried about the replacement. If you break SunZia down and you go to soon half of your project, if you look at the wind piece, it's basically 2 jobs a year. And I just -- we're not worried about replacing SunZia. We've already replaced it, it's in the backlog. And then on the transmission line, yes, it's a big line, but we replaced that as well. And so I'm not concerned at all with our ability to replace SunZia going forward. And I think that's a misnomer and investment community. I want to get that out there and say, we're not worried.
Second, when we're talking about generation, we're seeing renewable generation growth. We're seeing it in outer years. We're looking at '26, '27 and '28. We put growth up in '25. We'll put growth up in '26. We're not concerned at this point with that. And yes, there's going to be gas generation getting built. We see it. We've said it all along, it's [ 20% to 30% ]. But when you start ordering turbines that are 36 to 48 months out, what are you going to do between now and then?
And I still believe like even when you get turbines in when you start to see that, you still got to build renewables behind it and fill up the lines. And when I look at the cost of renewables, the way I'm looking at it and the way everyone should, we got to fill the lines up with renewables, gas, batteries, everything possible because that's what matters and people are underestimating transmission. The real issue is we need to build transmission in North America to really fully get the capabilities of all forms of energy. So I'm not worried about growth. But we need to get the permitting straight to get the transmission built.
And Julien, just to be clear, we are resegmenting [indiscernible] starting first quarter.
Yes. Yes, we're resegmenting first quarter for sure.
Yes. No, absolutely indeed. And Duke if I can pick up on that last point quickly. Because these RTOs have really released quite substantive increases in their transmission planning processes in the last quarter. So what's the time line and cadence that you're expecting for some of that to flow into your backlog?
I get that there is some kind of lag here, it could be a couple of quarters or so. How do you think about that across these? Because the numbers are really quite staggering in the last 2 months.
Yes, I'm glad you noticed. What I would say is I do think we're having those discussions today and before they even came out. I think, Steve was talking about the larger projects, someone should look at those [ Qs ] and see what those say, and that's on top of their already ongoing capital. Those are big projects that are both in -- mainly all the RTOs for that matter.
So you're starting to see bigger work, and we're having those discussions on a daily basis, and I like our chances.
Our next question will come from the line of Steve Fleishman with Wolfe Research.
So I think on the -- I think you answered the question on renewables that you -- it sounds like the tailwinds are still there that you're seeing despite the change in administration and some of the tariffs, other things that have come up, just -- I just -- I would just ask, is there anything that you're watching or wary of there, but certainly didn't look like it was a backlog increase you got?
Second question is you mentioned a lot of focus on gas, and that seems to keep increasing. I know you don't want to be in the gas turbine business, but just -- do you see kind of the pieces of your -- coming together for more growth in your undergrounding business over the next several years? As this does seem to be likely to ramp up meaningfully looking out?
Yes, Steve. First of all, like we do look at -- I mean, we're looking at administration on PTCs and how that would impact our customers. I think we watch that closely. There's a lot of safe harboring. We feel good about our top clients and they're very sophisticated. And I'm not as concerned, but we do watch it. I think we have a really good 10 years' worth of look out in the renewables and what we see. I mean certainly, some of that is based on the RA and the way it impacts it. But I -- the administration, yes, it will be noisy, but I think in the end, the generation that's needed and what we need will prevail against those kind of short-term dynamics in the market, what you may hear. We are booking backlog, we see work out long, long out, and we need all forms of generation.
I think it goes back probably 10 years when we talked about it, we talked about all forms of energy all forms of generation. It's never been as pronounced as it is today. We need all forms and we need it quickly and as fast as we can build it. And I think the demand is there. That's why you're seeing behind the meter. Things come up, [ distributed ] generation, everything that you're seeing because we can't meet it fast enough.
When I look at -- when we look at combined cycle, it's just not who we are. We can build it, we probably will build it, but we're not going to build it at risk. And so yes, we'll help our customers. We can build substations around. We can do all kinds of things around it. But the cost of a combined cycle is not cheap either. And so I think trying to get gas to it and the cost on turbines and how much it costs to build them on these days is not the same. And so I think in general, we have to make sure that we cover the company off on that risk.
It's certainly been something in the past that I can't get out of my head. And we'll be prudent about how we look at that business. I do think it's opportunities and opportunities all the way around it. Single cycles, small stuff. Yes, we can build them [indiscernible] those aren't difficult, and we'll be involved in some of that, but we will take the risk on combined cycles.
Your next question will come from the line of Justin Hauke with Robert W. Baird.
I guess I wanted to ask -- a lot of the big picture questions have been asked. I wanted to ask about the impact of the California wildfires. Yes, I don't really think of that as storm work, the same way that hurricanes knockdown lines. But just curious if that's had any impact to you here in the first quarter?
And maybe more importantly, just the long term, thinking about undergrounding lines and your ability to do that and kind of the cost differential versus overhead lines? Just kind of the long-term rebuild impact, if you could comment on that.
We [indiscernible] involved in some of the undergoing in California now, and it continues to progress nicely out on -- it's expensive. It is. So there's no question about it. But between that and taking fire risk, I think it's probably not expensive when you really look at the long-term nature of the business.
I do -- we do see violent weather across -- whether it's winter weather today or storms that -- hurricanes, fires, we're seeing it and it impacts of it. So I think as an industry, you're seeing the hardening programs in the West. Certainly, energy has got a resilient program ongoing that we're involved in. So we're involved in every one of them with our clients and trying to harden the grid and derisk their business. I don't think anyone ever intended to take fire risk on a line 35 years ago, 40, 50 years ago.
So we have to put for ourselves and try to help and collaborate on what we see across the board to make the grid more resilient and more modern, and we're doing that. There's technologies out and things like that, that are coming along as well. So everyone's kind of in this new paradigm of these [indiscernible] events, and we've got to harden the grid. And we're seeing that ongoing, and we'll continue to see it for decades or more.
We built this grid over the last 60, 70 years and we got a long way to go. And so I do see that happening, and we've got to get in front of that as an industry.
There is risk out from fire as well. I mean we have to watch ourselves in the risk that we have on fire in the West. So I do think how we interact and how we make sure that the company derisk ourselves in the middle of the fire is something that we watch as well.
So look, we're all in it together with the clients and working hard to try to make a difference and make sure that we spare human life when these events happen.
Your next question will come from the line of Brian Brophy with Stifel, Nicolaus.
I was hoping you could talk about the communications outlook here a bit and any more detail on this [ Lumin ] announcement that you made here. How meaningful could that be? And when should we start thinking about contributions on that front?
Yes. I was just trying to make sure you guys knew we were still in the telecom business. But in general, look, we had a nice award there. We continue to grow the business. We continue to incrementally move it forward. The data center demand on fiber is big. It probably goes unnoticed a bit on everything else. But [indiscernible] do you think we continue to see long-haul fiber opportunities as well as just our core business and communications.
We love the business. We're growing it, like I said, nicely. Sometimes it goes unnoticed. But I thought the world was meaningful and something that the investment community should see that we're still -- we're much larger, and I said it before, our addressable markets continue to grow. And where the company was 5 years ago versus where it's at today is much different from an addressable market standpoint. So when you look at the growth going forward, you can see it across multiple segments, whether it's communication technology or utilities, we can go on and on. But I just think that is something that goes unnoticed. And I want to make sure that everyone realizes that our addressable markets across this company have grown and getting larger
[Operator Instructions] Our next question will come from Adam Thalhimer with Thompson Davis.
I had the same question actually. I was curious about [ Lumin ], what else you're seeing in terms of long-haul fiber. Could you book another award of a similar magnitude?
And then Jayshree, curious if you can comment on the tax rate. It was a decent step up year-over-year. Just wanted to see what was going on there?
Now we kind of talked about telecom being [ $1 billion ], we're growing off [ $1 billion ], and we base there. And I do think we'll see growth in long haul. We bought some smaller businesses 3, 4 years ago. They're really growing nicely. Our markets are growing. There's no shortage of demand on infrastructure around the telecom data space. So I do see us getting more awards and what we can deliver on a national footprint.
We talk about the utilization of some of our underground business moving over into telecom, that can still happen. So we're leveraging all assets and leveraging people across these TAMs. And so I do think our ability to move resources across these customer bases is something that you'll continue to see the company move forward and we're in multiple conversations across what I would consider all businesses. And there's growth to every one of them. Infrastructure for the next 2 decades that I see out is significant, and we're right in the middle of it with our craft-skilled labor and engineering capabilities.
Yes. And as for the tax rate, I think a couple of things. One, we did some nice tax planning here that came through at the end of the year that allowed us to clean up some legal entities and take the tax benefit this year. As well as going into '25, we had -- this year, we had the big benefit as well earlier in the year of the [ RSU ] vesting we're assuming a lower best rate and vesting of the stock price in '25. And so you see that as well. The combination of both those things are why you're seeing a step-up in the tax rate.
Our next question will come from the line of Drew Chamberlain with JPMorgan.
Just a bit of a follow-up the renewables bookings. Obviously, good to see the strong momentum there. But can you just kind of break that out a little bit on what you're seeing from a technology standpoint and where demand is, kind of project profiles that are coming from your customers?
And then also, what you're hearing on the safe harbor impact that you touched upon briefly earlier. And how much that could either have already gone into the backlog? Or that's already being at play and what the outlook could be for further safe harbor type wins in 2025?
Yes. I think when we're looking at the renewable business, I mean, certainly, like there's noise that continues. But our ability to book work there and what we see and how we can deliver across that market, like we're not seeing any pullback. And so we're actually seeing more demand.
And the safe harbor. The safe harbor is really meant to our customers are buying equipment. They're doing the things that are necessary to make sure that the projects are protected for the long term. And the smart, the bigger ones, our customer base that we work for typically do that. And we're comfortable.
I don't -- you're not seeing the meaningful impact of, call it, beyond [ 12 ] backlog because of safe harboring at this point. We just see the market and the strength to it long term. And as far as the data center demand, and if you were going to build generation tomorrow, I would just ask, what would you build, and how quickly could you build it. And you would find yourself building a solar plant probably. It's the fastest thing you can build.
And I just think the way you go to market right now, no one wants to hear 48 months. They want to hear 48 minutes. And so I think that will be key on how we look at the business. It won't be as much about what form of generation will be how quick do you get it.
Our next question will come from the line of Sangita Jain with Keystone.
So if I can ask on the civil acquisition that you made. Is that mostly Texas oriented now? I'm trying to see if you can leverage that to your Cupertino low voltage work for data centers maybe?
Yes. I mean I think, Sangita, yes it's Southeast based, not just Texas but Southeast. We can move it out. They have a lot of capabilities, engineering capabilities and only to expand the business. So yes, I mean, we can expand.
When we look at it, Cupertino works all across the Lower 48. So they're in Texas as well in the Southeast, and there's a lot of Southeast expansions and Texas expansion. I just think our synergies would allow us to really grow the business. We could probably absorb the whole business internally with synergies internally. So that's not going to be the case. They get involved in industrial base, LNG, all kinds of different things. And so we're super excited about having the capabilities.
And I think when we look at acquisitions, we weren't looking for civil business. But when we know the business well, and it's really the culture of the DNA, what we look for in management teams and how we go about our ability to put strategies for us and solutions to our clients and also the quality of the management teams are so paramount when we look at acquisitions, that this is a long-standing business, 50-plus years old generationally that we're super excited that those solutions will be something that both internally and externally, you can see.
And sometimes you can't see it, but we certainly see it, and we like our opportunities there.
Your next question will come from the line of Marc Bianchi with Cowen.
I wanted to ask on the outlook for underground here in '25. So '24 was a bit of a lower margin year for that business and you're showing sort of an expectation for improvement in '25. And particularly, the year-over-year improvement as we get past the first quarter, looks like it's a pretty good step up.
So I was hoping you could kind of unpack kind of what happened in '24 and what's driving the confidence in the bounce back in '25?
A couple of things. Your industrial business was down a bit, and the margins were down. We had some storms come through the Gulf Coast and impacted us in the back half. So part of it is in our industrial business gets better.
Canada, we're coming off big pipe in Canada. And so that's some of the impacts that are going back into your LDC business that we have growth in. And then when you look at the acquisitions, it's accretive. So the acquisition is accretive. We have a better industrial margin profile going forward as well as our LDC business in our core business.
In the utility space, people are starting to put more capital back into the gas business. So we're seeing that come back in the core. So all those things kind of come together, and that's why you're seeing the impacts on margins going forward.
But I would still say that we're leveraging the underground capabilities of gas across into telecom and into the electric space on any given day. So you can see some pullback and then the electric may go up $200 million of gas assets and people that move over there, [ 300 or 400 ]. So you can see that on any given day in the business if it was up to me, I'd have one segment, but it's not. So like we have two, and it does cross.
But I do like our business in totality, and I think it's something that we'll continue to see margin improvement. We're still not happy with where it's at, and I do believe you can get in the upper single digits there or maybe even double digits.
Our next question will come from the line of Gus Richard with Northland Capital Markets.
On the federal level, there's a lot of changes. You've got indiscriminate layoffs by the government efficiency bureau and that could slow approval processes. You've got the potential of deregulation and speed things up. You've got the potential of bands of solar panels being imported another impact.
And I'm just wondering if you're seeing anything at this point due to these potential changes? And sort of what's your expectation on how easy they'll get projects to get done, will it get pulled in or pushed out?
Good question. I really try to put my head down and were not listen too much to it because it changes by the minute. I don't -- fundamentally, from the customers and how we see it and what we've guided to, we've taken into account. We've been very prudent about how we guided to the midpoint. And anything that we've seen or think that could be a possibility, we've baked into our guidance at this point.
So I feel comfortable that across our addressable markets, we have room to expand on any given day. But you're right. I mean, 1 day, some things are really, really good for certain parts of the business and some things could impact a bit. But in totality, we see growth, we see opportunity. And everything I hear is just opportunity. I don't think -- when you look at it, there's still a lot of -- if you go back to first term, a lot of this happened in, and we did nicely and we continue to grow the business. I think the same thing will happen. It will never be as good as you think, and it will never be as bad as you think.
So we'll be right down the middle with it. And the great thing is, under any scenario, demand is going to outpace supply at this point. And we just -- we have to really try to figure out how to get in front of that would be more important.
Your next question comes from the line of Joseph Osha with Guggenheim Partners.
Duke you alluded to this a little earlier, obviously, lead times are way out there for combined cycle machines, but I was at [ Power Gen ] last week and we're starting to hear sort of the same thing happening on the single cycle side as people look to put peak and power alongside renewables.
So I'm just wondering how are you seeing your mix evolve? And are you starting to see that same kind of frenzy and longer lead times on the single cycle side as well?
Yes. I mean the single cycle business for us, we're certainly capable and I'm not concerned there as much built in a single cycle. So yes, we'll be around the edges on that. We do see a lot of opportunity there, whether it be -- you have a lot of diesel generation back up today. I think the single cycles will be forms of energy. You can back up and use them in merchant type situations and things of that nature. So -- and it is way quicker to market with single cycle.
So I do think that will be a part of the solution to get the project started quicker. So we see the opportunity as well. And the company is well positioned to take advantage of those type of arrangements.
Our next question will come from the line of Brent Thielman with D.A. Davidson.
And we'll go to [ Phil Shen ] with Roth Capital, and we can return to your Brent.
I wanted to go back to the AI data center theme. What opportunities are you conceptualizing now that could deepen your exposure to the AI data center trend beyond Cupertino?
You emphasized that you're a solutions provider. Kinds of problems are your data center-related customers experiencing that you could support in a deeper way than you do now?
Yes. I mean we're taking the same approach with the data center owners that we are with the utilities and that intersection as well, so our ability to talk to our clients on the utility side, help them and help the data centers and stay in the middle. We want to build infrastructure, all types of infrastructure. It involves craft-skilled. It involves engineering, it involves anything, really, to be honest, like we're certainly in the middle of those discussions and how do we help collaborate to move things faster, more efficiently across both customers as well as our renewables as well.
So look, it's a convergence. We see it, and we're in the middle of it, and we will be trying to take advantage of those markets on a go-forward basis that we see. And we've said all along that we feel comfortable with craft-skill. We feel comfortable building up our capacity on the front end side of the business and using those service lines to provide a solution. So there's not much we're not talking about with these clients.
And there are no more questions at this time. I'd now like to turn the call back over to management for closing remarks.
Thank you. I want to thank the 60,000-plus employees. They're the best in the business. They allow us to have this call today and they're building what I consider the infrastructure of the future. I want to thank them, and I want to thank you for participating in our conference call. We appreciate your questions, your ongoing interest Quanta Services. Thank you. This concludes our call.