Dof Group ASA

OSE:DOFG

Earnings Call Transcript

[Mons Aase, executive]

Good morning, and welcome to the quarter 3 presentation for DOF Group. We -- the people listening on the webcast can send questions through the chat, and we will answer them at the end of the presentation. The people here in the audience can ask questions verbally with a microphone.

So I guess, the picture on the front page is chosen because we closed the Maersk acquisition 1st of November. So we own now the Maersk Supply Service, renamed now DOF Denmark A/S. 4 days, we have owned them now. So that means that we have a bit of a job to do. So we will invite for a separate couple of sessions 11th of December to do a deeper dive on the Maersk part of the DOF Group. So this presentation is end, of course, quarter 3. So this is the old DOF here. But we will come back on that later on then in December.

So this is DOF before -- as we see it before closing. And then -- so it's the old slide you have seen before. So still growing a bit in number of employees. We are recruiting, I would call it, pretty heavily on the Subsea side, especially in the Atlantic region due to new awards. And we also see revenue and EBITDA coming up. And other than that, I guess, it's more or less the same backlog now at $2.75 billion. And that's it really on that page.

So this is then this quarter and start on the numbers. So revenue of $361 million and an EBITDA of $141 million. So it's according to our plan, a little bit better than our own plan and then also then -- as a consequence, we lift the full year guidance. So we lift that to $510 million to $520 million. And so that's the numbers. And of course, we come back to that, but we have a backlog in quarter 4 that is slightly higher than the revenue in quarter 3. So we are pretty confident on quarter 4.

We closed Maersk 1st of November and we have a slide on that, also we'll be showing the -- what we actually paid at close here. So we -- so it ended, I would say, slightly a bit better than we guided when we announced the purchase. And so the cash position, I think we are talking $166 million in cash at close. So it was pretty good. We will come back to that as well.

So this is what we are buying, yes. So it's -- and we are welcoming DOF Denmark to the group. And so this is what we are buying, its 22 boats. It is a long history, of course, a longer history than DOF has and younger fleet than we have. And then you see the assets, and we have talked about that before, but of course, it's one cable layer, more than -- large cable layer. And of course, cable layer market is probably one of the hottest segments in our space these days. It's backlog for many other companies play in that market to long into the 2030s.

So it's -- and then it's 8 CSVs and of course, 4 of them the most modern and largest in the market these days. So they built -- [indiscernible] was built in '17, '18. So -- and then a large anchor handling fleet where 5 of them, of course, are the same very young and modern large boats.

So talk a bit about values later on in the presentation. And you could say it's our fleet renewal. Yes. You will not see DOF building mostly on speculation for delivery in '27 and '28. We think this is a much better way of growing the fleet and renewing the fleet. And of course, money-wise, of course, the pricing is much more attractive than the alternative.

And then you can, of course, you all knew that we have a newbuild. Part of the deal was a newbuild, but of course, also talk a bit about that later on, but that is a very different story. It's a 15-year contract, firm contract with options, 10 optional years. So of course, if they take all the options, you are in -- long into the 2050s before that contract starts, which is interesting for those who thinks that the oil and gas is dying soon.

So it's a different story. And of course, we expect to finance that where we have a minor element of equity into it. So meaning that short-term dividend capacity will be the same. And longer term, of course, the cash flow from that will be very good. So we -- I'll talk a bit about that later on.

So this is how the mathematics ended at close. So as you see, enterprise value at closing, $881 million. And that is then based, of course, on the share price at closing at NOK 87 and the cash position -- very strong cash position of USD 166 million. And of course, that you can compare against broker values at $1,350 million. So on asset values, of course, it's a big discount. We see 0.66x of net asset value.

Of course, you could -- of course, if you want to be negative, of course, you could argue that there are a few contracts that is below market. So there is a negative value on a few of the contracts. But if you remember from the close, of course, the backlog was only a couple of books that had backlog well into the future.

So we think it's a good deal. And of course, if you -- and we're going to talk more about that on the 11th of December when we do a deeper dive on what is now called DOF Denmark, it's the new name. But I think if you look at the asset values and it's pretty attractive.

Then, of course, debt level, we took a new loan, $500 million on the fleet. And that means the net loan-to-value of that fleet 25%. So it's pretty low gearing as well. So it's a bit better than we talked about earlier.

And this is then -- it's -- this is an image of the vessel that are now under construction. And it's Cenovus in Canada, so of course, a very well-known client of us and of DOF Denmark. And it is a 15-year contract. And as you see, options extending it into 2052. So what we expect, of course, the boat to be there until the life of the field.

And then you see the economics. Of course, we have -- we are not -- it's confidential between us and Cenovus what we -- the rate is and what the CapEx is. But if you see here the payback, so the multiple on it is 7 to -- between 7 and 7.5 years. And of course, then if you do the math on that on a 15-year contract, you see this is a very good deal.

So it's -- and that's a bit interesting. We see that it's -- there are opportunities out there where you can do similar deals, long-term contract with investment-grade companies in the oil and gas market.

And it's a White Rose field in Canada. And of course, it's being installed now summer next year. And it had to be a newbuild because it's going to be used during the ice season to evacuate the platform. So you needed a boat with 150, 160 beds and the walk to work and a lot of other features. So there didn't exist similar boats in the market.

And yes, and as we said, financing options, of course, we plan, of course, to finance this, let's say, 90% plus of the investment in one way or the other. And then of course, we have interest from various institutions to help us with that. Meaning that cash-wise for us, it's a minor outlay on this boat. So that was that newbuild.

And of course, this is what we do. And I'm very pleased actually to see that the asset earnings are growing. But now also then where we see the biggest percentage growth is on the services side. So if I remember correctly, we were at $90 million in '23, last 12 months now $110 million and perhaps when you come to '24, it will be a bit more than $110 million. So we see that growth. And we see it's -- we see in all regions, they either meet our expectation, outperform our expectations. So we see 4 regions now really delivering.

And of course, part of the value story on the Maersk or DOF Denmark -- DOF Denmark, not Maersk anymore, DOF Denmark acquisition is, of course, that we -- because we're going to create values on top of the assets on that fleet as well. So we will install Subsea equipment on them, and we will gradually take them in and put services on them.

So meaning that we plan to -- so not only then we will see when you include the assets, you will see, of course, growth in the asset EBITDA. But of course, gradually, we hope and we will see that also the services element will grow based on this. So that's the plan. And of course, we are working with now and we have a detailed plan for when we implement and when we start working on those.

And then I think we have done this slide here. And this is -- yes, this is the awards in quarter 3. And so far in quarter 4, I don't take you through all of them and some of them we have talked about before. So of course, I guess, perhaps what we start with the latest one, which is the Skandi Feistein PSV contract in Australia. And of course, it's very satisfying to see that we can do -- so this is more or less on the same level as we did with the [ sister ] and we -- I think we will see annualized EBITDA on that, both above USD 9 million.

So it is -- even if we have seen some weakness in North Sea on the PSV side, we see we are able to do deals like that internationally. And with that contract in place, of course, that also means that we are sold out -- our PSV capacity is sold out to quarter 4 next year. So we have no exposure to that market.

And then I mentioned, of course, the newbuild, so I don't repeat here. But then we also see that DOF Denmark have done some contracts on anchor handlers. They have done one, 5-year deal and one, 2-year deal in Canada on 2 anchor handlers. And then we have extended Cutter and Clipper 1 year and then Nomad has been extended in -- for Exxon in Guyana and then Forza has been extended for Exxon in Angola. So it's a bit -- not a bit, but quite a few new contracts on those. And of course, some of it is more like the Nomad and Forza, of course that's where we now -- we have to see how we can position ourselves to also deliver the Subsea scope product.

So it's interesting in Angola and also you have the Forza, we also have the Skandi Seven here. So we see our position in Angola growth. And likewise, of course, in Guyana, where we -- DOF operate 2 and then Nomad we have 3 out of 4, let's say, CSVs working for Exxon in Guyana. So it's a very interesting position.

We will talk a bit more about numbers and so on and the backlog and expectations when we come to 11th of December. You have to be a bit patient with us since we have only owned it for 4 days.

So this is the backlog and so now it's $2,751 million and then small $100 million after that. And of course, we -- it's been a bit slow after we came back from summer holidays. But of course, that's normal, and then we expect it to pick up during fourth quarter and into first quarter. That's the normal.

And a few interesting tenders out there, as you know, couple of to mention, of course, is -- there is a new anchor handlining tender, a new RSV tender in Brazil. And for those of you who follow us closely, you know that we have 5 anchor handlers in Brazil for renewal late in '25, and we have 3 RSVs for renewal in '25 or '26. And of course, these tenders are for them. And of course, if we then win, we hope we have a bit higher rates. And of course, then you will do -- if you are looking at 8 to 10 boats with backlog into the 2030 and onwards.

So that is, I think, the most important tenders we are looking at, at the moment. And if you look at the backlog here, as we said, $383 million for quarter 4, $364 million in revenue in quarter 3. So it's almost sold out. We have on the Rederi fleet, we have -- I think we have -- we could have 15, 20 days on Skandi Hera, which is an anchor handler with crane and 15 days on the charter in Maersk Installer in December, that's the worst case we have. So it's almost sold out. And of course, that is why we are confident enough to lift the lower end of the guidance.

So I leave it like that. And then we come back in December and talk a bit more about the combined backlog and a bit of our plans, of course, to how we're now going to gradually implement Subsea and project scope on the new part of the fleet.

Hilde? You have to give her applause. It's her last presentation as a -- yes.

[Hilde Drønen, executive]

Well, thank you. I hope you applaud when I'm finished as well. A pretty decent quarter and no big events accounting-wise. Revenue of $376 million versus $322 million and $141 million versus $123 million last year. So a good quarter.

Depreciation has increased, and that's as previous quarters due to reversal of impairments that we did in '23, mainly. Net interest costs, slightly lower than previous quarter. The debt is going down. And you perhaps remember that last quarter, we had a huge unrealized currency loss, and now it's the opposite. And that's mostly related to the Norskan debt where we still have functional currency in BRL. So now it goes the opposite way.

We will try our best to have the functional currency in U.S. dollar to avoid these movements. And it's no cash impact this quarter as well. And as long as the debt in Norskan is as high as $500 million, it will have an impact on how the BRL moves towards U.S. dollar. Based on that, we have a U.S. dollar reporting. It has no impact on the balance sheet.

And after finance, we have a net profit of $79 million versus $32 million and after tax of $69 million versus $27 million. And year-to-date, it's $117 million versus $181 million. And of course, here, you have the movements on the unrealized currency impacts as well and also reversal of impairments done year-to-date in both years.

What I'm happy about is that if you see the last column here, of course, DOF Subsea is outperforming again and also that Norskan is back on track. We had a very weak quarter, second quarter, and now we are more or less on track and that DOF Rederi is delivering better EBITDA. We will come back to the segments later.

Looking at the balance sheet, actually the same. Total current asset, $2.1 billion versus $2 billion in same quarter last year. Contract costs, no movements there. Contracts cost, that is our mobilization cost for new contracts. Deferred tax, no movements there, but that might change because -- due to the strong results for the group, we consider to do reversal of previous impairment on deferred tax going forward. And no movements on other current receivables.

And as you can see, the current assets has increased significantly, both from year-end until now, and that is increased activity in the group. And you see that not only the receivable has increased, but also the cash. Part of that is that we did a private placement in July of USD 75 million, and that has also impacted the equity this quarter.

Long-term debt, that's a mix of secured debt, bond loan and lease liabilities, and you see it down there, $1.3 billion is secured debt, $73 million is the bond loan and $43 million is lease liabilities. And the same mix on the short portion of the long-term debt.

What is also positive is that our key figures is improving. So since the year-end, the net interest-bearing debt to EBITDA, last 12-month EBITDA is now 2.3x from 3x to 2.3x. And of course, the equity ratio is increasing. And of course, this $75 million has an impact, and that was partly used when we did the closing last Friday.

If you look at the cash flow, and if we start on top here. The cash flow from operating activities is -- I think it's decent, but it is lower than similar quarter last year. And that is due to increased activity and also changes in the net working capital. And that can change from quarter-to-quarter. And it's mostly or more or less all of it is related to the project activity and when we get paid and how the milestones are -- how we perform on the milestones.

Net interest-bearing debt slightly lower and tax paid is $6 million, and that's mainly withholding tax, but it's also some minor corporate tax that we pay in Brazil. CapEx is more or less the same, that's mainly maintenance CapEx and some installments on new ROVs because we have all the new ROVs that we have in the pipeline. And repayment of secured debt and lease liability. And here, you see the share issue. So that's the movement on the cash.

So in sum, close to $100 million in operating activity, investment is $24 million. Financing is only $19 million. That's due to the $75 million from the private placement.

On the operational performance, as I said, DOF Subsea is outperforming. And in this quarter and actually also second quarter, the performance in Asia Pacific was very good and much higher than we expected. And that trend, we believe, will continue into fourth quarter as well.

In North America, they also performed very well this quarter. That's partly on the activity they have in -- well, they have -- that's the activity we have in Guyana, in Canada, but also very good performance on a few Jones Act vessels. So high activity there as well.

In the Atlantic, they also had good performance and very high activity this quarter. They have operated 7 project vessels. So mainly activity in West Africa and in Europe and the North Sea. Stable operations in Brazil. But what we also see in Brazil that the tendering activity is very high at the moment. Main new contracts this quarter is in Asia Pacific. But you see DOF Subsea continued to grow both on revenue and EBITDA.

In DOFCON, the most important event is, of course, that Skandi Buzios is now on-hire. She went on-hire 1st of August, and that's a very important milestone. But also the new contract that we've been awarded on Skandi Vitoria, Niteroi and Acu. So the visibility on DOFCON is very strong in the next 3 to 4 years.

And that also means that we will be back on track on semiannual dividend payments. And it has been decided to pay $50 million in dividend, which will happen very soon, and it might be more this year. But the dividend payments are -- will now be resumed in DOFCON.

In Norskan, good utilization and all the vessels on contract, no big events. The delayed start on the contract -- new contract for Skandi Rio did impact the -- has impact partly the result in Q3. But now when the contract starts, it is better earnings and also for the Skandi Botafogo, which will start second quarter '25. Norskan will also have more vessels on management in '25 due to the contract awards on Skandi Jupiter. But here, you see stable EBITDA and revenue in Norskan.

DOF Rederi, high utilization. We actually had no vessels in the spot market this quarter, all vessels on firm contract. And of course, the award of Skandi Feistein at a very good rate. And she is in Australia, and she continued on the existing contract. So stable operations on DOF Rederi as well.

I will repeat some of what we presented on our Capital Market Day because we have started the process on refinancing of the group. The plan was to do that after -- immediately after the Maersk transaction. That's now done.

And here, you see updated figures. I will not go through all these facilities. You have seen that before. But the updated net interest-bearing debt to 12 months EBITDA is now 1.8x for DOF Subsea. So it's going down. You see the same in DOFCON. Norskan is still high, and we have known that. But bear in mind that the first -- the loan maturity in Norskan with BNDES is due in 2030.

If you see DOF Rederi, we are now at 1x. And if you see at when we did the closing at DOF Denmark, the loan-to-value, both on net interest-bearing debt and gross debt is actually 37% and 25%, and that is actually lower than when we initiated the transaction.

This is the debt -- also updated about Q3 numbers, and this is the debt that matures in '26, and that is the dark blue here. This is the $79 million in Norskan. It's the $544 million in DOF Subsea and it's $65 million in DOF Rederi. So after -- the gross debt after the transaction is $2 billion, of which approximately $700 million is due in January 2026.

This is also something we show in the Capital Market Day because the capital structure that we have now is not efficient at all. We have a very strong limitation on what we can do on hedging, interest, FX, et cetera. We want to have a more flexible amortization profile.

And more or less how the structure is today is that all surplus cash is, in fact, a cash sweep. There are no dividends, so we want to remove the dividend restrictions. And of course, one important thing is that from second quarter and onwards, if we haven't refinanced, then a big portion of our debt will be short term. So that is something we are trying to avoid.

But the most important is to have free float of cash among these segments here. And this is Maersk or DOF Denmark, it's DOF Rederi and DOF Subsea. We want to keep DOFCON as a silo and Norskan as a silo, mainly due to favorable terms on the existing finance that we have on this company. But here, we want to have free cash, and we have started preparing for that already.

We see that there is a strong indication of interest from banks to participate in the refinancing of the DOF Group. And we believe it's possible to have everything closed and done by first quarter next year.

[Mons Aase, executive]

Thank you, Hilde. So then it's the last couple of slides, it's guiding and outlook. So the guiding, as we said, will be -- so revenue the same between $1.4 billion and $1.5 billion. And then EBITDA will lift from $500 million to $520 million to $510 million to $520 million.

And of course, that is due to a strong backlog in quarter 4. Depreciation is up a bit, and Hilde explained that before. And then interest cost and tax payable and CapEx unchanged. So that's really it. So then we will see where we end between $510 million and $520 million. And let's see.

Then as we said, we have -- we expect stable earnings in quarter 4 and due to the high backlog. And now the focus is on '25 because we don't have more to sell -- much more to sell in '24.

And the pictures here, Feistein, of course, a new contract in Australia, very high rate and between $9 million to $9.5 million annualized EBITDA, so which is good. It's a newbuild. For Cenovus, 15-year contract payback somewhere in the low 7s and meaning that, that will be a good contributor for us to be financed with little equity.

And then to M-class anchor handlers, 2- and 5-year contracts in Canada for Cenovus. And then I don't remember why we have the picture of this 400-tonne [ I-class ] boat, but it is at least a very beautiful boat. And of course, if you see on the reported enterprise value, we are paying slightly less than $900 million.

And if you have 4 of the 400-tonne crane boats and 5 of the 5 year old -- 5-, 6-year-old big anchor handlers, you could say in an optimistic moment that that those boats probably are -- yes, you understand. I think the value of those in a good market should be almost higher than what we are paying for the entire fleet. But that's in a good market.

So it's -- and if you look at it on the discount, do the easy math on that, 0.66x, the broker value, I think, on I-class was around $140. So meaning that you are paying around $100 million for them. And then, of course, you see people are willing to pay $100 million for boats that -- I wouldn't say half the size, but at least much smaller boats, for delivery in '27. So then, of course, you understand that the value of these boats is much higher than what we are paying for.

And the last one is, to repeat that, we took over DOF Denmark called now as Maersk Supply Service A/S on Friday last week and Monday was day 1 and today is then day 4. And we will invite all of you to then a presentation on Teams 11th December at 2:00. And then we will do a more deep dive into what we have avoid and how the backlog looks, what our plans are, how to integrate Subsea services and so on and a few expectations on what we are able to achieve. And so we hope you have time on the 11, and then we will prepare us as best as we can to make that a meaningful session.

So then thank you very much. And then we are open for questions, and I hope we have a few.

[Martin Lundberg, executive]

Yes. We have a few on the chat, and then we'll do here in the audience as well. I will use this microphone for the benefit of the webcast. We can start with one from the chat while you guys in the room gather your thoughts.

And that is we've seen quite a few of the DOF Denmark both in the North Sea spot. How do you see that market developing in 2025?

[Mons Aase, executive]

It's a valid and nice good question. And of course, we have seen in '24 that the spot market for anchor handlers and also for PSVs in the North Sea has been a bit disappointing. Of course, DOF have had no exposure to any of those markets. And so our plan for that fleet, of course, is to, one, we have -- we are done with it and of course it will take a bit of time is to have in addition to Skandi Skansen and Skandi Hera. We are trying to have 3, 4 boats that will work combined both, but also you use a lot of time on the projects.

So of course, we have 4 boats now in West Africa, Skansen and Hera are the 2 management point of view, [indiscernible] on the project now installing first an FPSO and then an FSO. And of course, those rates -- internal rates on those boats are on average a bit higher than USD 60 a day, plus then a nice margin on top here. So meaning we need a few of those boats to execute those projects, but we want to have a reduced number to the spot. And then we want to have, let's say, the destiny of the earnings a bit in our own hands. So we were not -- like the Skandi Hera has probably had single days in the spot market this year.

So that's the plan for it, so to reduce the exposure and either to find long-term home and of course, also then discussing to divest the oldest vessels in either the DOF fleet or in the new DOF Denmark. So we are looking at that. So that exposure -- the long-term plan is to get under with a lower exposure.

And then, of course, how I see the '25 anchor handling market, of course, it's a very good question. And of course, that depends on -- will depend on the project activity and how many boats you can get out to the North Sea. There are a few boats departing. So it is on a balance, yes.

Of course, this year also it was 5 boats -- 5, 7 boats less in that market, of course, it would be a fantastic market. So it's very difficult to predict. So I couldn't give you a better answer.

But of course, what we see is, of course, that -- but it's a bit interesting. What you have seen on the PSV side is that, of course, the spot has been depressed. I don't know what the average earning has been, but I believe they have been well below GBP 15,000 on average for a large boat in the spot market. And then you see still term fixture in North Sea north of 20. And then you see internationally what we are able to do in Australia and other places.

And likewise, on the anchor handling side, you saw that was -- [ Svein ] fixed a few boats in Australia, very good rates. The rates on the Petrobras tender are very high. So of course, it's a mixed feeling where you see the term deals are done on much higher levels than what you should expect from the spot market. And likewise, on the project activities, you see the rates are not reflecting the spot at all. So it's -- and of course, that shows the expectation from the owners. So the question always, of course, how the owners react on the small bleeding we see in the spot market -- we have seen, yes. But so far, they have been standing strong on the long-term bids.

So it was not a good answer on the spot market, because I guess I've been in this industry for 30 years, and it's almost difficult to predict what the anchor handling market will look like next week. So of course, 5 days ago, they fixed anchor handlers around NOK 200,000 and then 2 days ago, they fixed them at NOK 650,000. So it's -- that's how it is. It's all about the balance and a few boats out makes a big difference.

And of course, I don't know if you are allowed to speak about that, but of course, it's interesting also to see the dynamics in that market with Maersk and DOF going together. You see Viking and Svein same commercial management. So of course, it's -- the dynamics is shifting a bit as well.

[Martin Lundberg, executive]

Anyone there?

[Erik Fossa, analyst]

Erik Aspen Fossa, Carnegie. I had a question about -- I wonder if you could talk about the anchor handler tender in Brazil. From what I can read, there was some contracts signed last night. I didn't see you announcing any contracts. So I'm just wondering if you could talk about the status and also -- of course, you bid the Norskan vessels that are available. But now as you've taken over the Maersk fleet, how many of those vessels have been bid in that?

[Mons Aase, executive]

We haven't bid yet, yes. So the tender I'm talking about is due later in November, but most likely going to be postponed a bit. So because what we will bid, of course, we will bid, of course, the 5 boats we have on contract with Petrobras and of course, discussing if we going to add a few boats from the international fleet. So we are looking at that, yes.

And then at the same time, of course, there is RSV tender where we have Olympia, Commander and Chieftain that also up for renewal in '25-'26. That's also a very interesting tender. And of course, we also have to evaluate if we limit it to those 3 boats or if we bid a few more boats. And all those tender or commencement either in '25 or '26 and for 4-year contracts. And so then you are talking 2030 and perhaps a bit beyond. So it's very interesting, of course. And if we can do 8, 10-plus boats on that, of course, then you could have a fairly decent portion of the fleet on a very long-term contracts. And of course, we expect, of course, to be bidding levels that is still moving in the right direction.

[Erik Fossa, analyst]

And also one question on the engineering because that's grown quite a bit. I'm wondering if you could give some indication or color on how that could develop into next year? Could it continue growing? Or do you expect it to kind of stabilize?

[Mons Aase, executive]

It's a very good question. And of course, we are working on the budget as we speak. And of course, in some elements, of course, we look to grow. You have new awards like the IRM contract with Equinor, of course, on the charter and boat, and of course, we guided on what we expected in EBITDA out of that. And of course, then on that it will grow. But of course, it also depends on what we are able to build on backlog of what is unsold. But I think the long-term trend is that you will see that growing.

And then you have how fast we can be able to move part of the DOF Denmark fleet into that space. So of course, long term, it will grow, who we'll be looking '25 and as specific guidance on that and how quickly we are able to turn part of the Maersk fleet in, we have to revert on. Yes.

[Christopher Møllerløkken, analyst]

Christopher in SpareBank 1. I might ask this question 1 month too earlier, but I'll try anyway. You had a slide showing the contract extension on the DOF Denmark fleet. And is it possible to indicate if those extensions were done at what you would describe as market terms or if they were extended on pre-agreed pricing level by DOF Denmark?

[Mons Aase, executive]

It's a -- and we can come back on that. But of course, if you look at this one, yes. So the Forza was -- I don't remember if it options or unpriced option, but of course, it's a completely new rate. It's reflecting the present market for that type of boats.

The Nomad was an option, but it was -- the options was going in steps. So considerable higher rates on the new than on the old. And the Clipper and Cutter was pure extensions where the options were taken. And the Mover and Minder, of course, there's new contract. And the Involver here is also a new contract. So yes, it's a mix. It's a mix. And hopefully, we -- I don't know what we can say or not say, but we will try to talk a bit more meaningful on that in December.

And as I said, we have owned it for 4 days. So it's -- if you ask us a lot of details, we probably couldn't answer them because we were not allowed to look at the commercial side until we got it closed. So we were as curious as you were when we took over. So it's a mix. But the Forza and the Nomad are up, the Forza was very nice rate. But I'll leave it like that for the moment.

[Lukas Daul, analyst]

Lukas Daul from Arctic Securities. Can you just comment on the DOFCON dividend going forward? You said it's $50 million coming soon, and then you have decided to distribute dividends going forward, but you decided on what level?

[Mons Aase, executive]

You could say that, as you say, we decided in September, I think we had a meeting, and then we decided to pay $50 million out as soon as possible. And then we will have a new meeting later in November to see if we can pay an additional amount or before year-end. And then I think the philosophy is, of course, with the backlog we have and the relatively low debt level on that is, that we pay out all the excess cash above a certain minimum cash.

So I haven't discussed with our friends in Technip what we can disclose and not disclose on exact numbers here. So I have to ask them before I give you. But I -- let's say we are hoping for, we can do $50 million plus something close to that this year. So $50 million now and then perhaps not too unlike number to $50 million before we say Merry Christmas, but I can't guarantee that. But that is at least how we on the DOF side look at it.

[Lukas Daul, analyst]

And then just on the DOFCON performance in the Q3, I think you had it on the silo slide. It was down year-on-year on the EBITDA level. Is that anything specific behind it?

[Mons Aase, executive]

Let's find it. Let me find it. Both Hilde and me are, I guess, old now, we don't remember what we said 10 minutes ago.

[Martin Lundberg, executive]

[Indiscernible].

[Mons Aase, executive]

Yes. So that was month less on one boat, the Buzios. And then there was also -- we have to admit, of course, some cost. And we also have a penalty cost. So I think we have...

[Hilde Drønen, executive]

Yes. If you take year-on-year -- this is third quarter and Skandi Buzios was covered by loss of hire for -- in the comparable quarter. And then it was 2 months operations this year.

[Mons Aase, executive]

Yes. And we also had -- I think we also had $6 million, $7 million in extraordinary cost on that boat getting back.

[Lukas Daul, analyst]

This quarter?

[Hilde Drønen, executive]

Yes.

[Mons Aase, executive]

Yes, this quarter. So that's the explanation. But then, of course, you will see fourth quarter being better. Yes.

[Hilde Drønen, executive]

Yes, that should be because then it's full utilization of the fleet. But the new contract awards, just as said, they are applicable from '25, especially on Vitoria and Niteroi, just as you know. They will not start before next year.

[Lukas Daul, analyst]

And can you just say when they start? Have you -- do you have the dates or is that a moving target?

[Mons Aase, executive]

Lundberg, do we have the dates?

[Martin Lundberg, executive]

Late.

[Mons Aase, executive]

It's late. It's quarter 4. So no more?

[Martin Lundberg, executive]

On the [ blue boats ], how confident are you that you will be able to cover the short-term gaps on the contracts there?

[Mons Aase, executive]

Yes, that's a good question. And of course, it's -- as I said, we're going to talk more about that in December. But of course, it's to do what we plan to do. Of course, it's not that you don't do long-term contracts on some more anchor handlers and you need time on that. So it will take a bit of time before we can say we have the exposure and the backlog we want to have. It's not done overnight.

So it will -- I think as we have said before, I think '25 will be a transition year where we need to work hard on the commercial side, optimize the backlog and position the boats and also then install some equipment on -- Subsea equipment on some of other boats and then also to finalize the integration and of course, to optimize the cost level. So it is -- it's a question that you could have a whole day both explaining what our plans are here.

[Martin Lundberg, executive]

All right. Unless anyone in the audience has any additional questions, it looks like we've covered the ones on the web as well.

[Mons Aase, executive]

So we are good?

[Hilde Drønen, executive]

Thank you.

[Martin Lundberg, executive]

Yes.

[Hilde Drønen, executive]

Thank you.

[Mons Aase, executive]

Thank you very much for listening, and have a nice day. Thank you.