Nippon Sanso Holdings Corp

TSE:4091

Q1-2026 Earnings Call

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] It is now time to start the Nippon Sanso Holdings Corporation, the First Quarter FYE 2026 Earnings Call to begin. Thank you all very much for joining despite your busy schedules. I will be serving as an MC from IR Department of the Group Finance. I am Ishimoto. Great To meet you.

Before the start, may I remind you of the housekeeping announcement. Well, conference document is the attention, the earnings call references that we would like you to refer to during the meeting.

Next, we have main presenters today, CEO, President, Hamada; Senior Executive Officer, Group Finance and Accounting Officer and CFO, Draper. So these 2 will be presenting today. In addition, Kubo, Executive Officer, Group Corporate Planning Office; Miki, Senior Executive Officer, CFO, Group Sustainability Management; and Kajiyama, General Manager of IR, are also in attendance.

And as for the main program for today, first, Hamada, President and CEO; and Draper, CFO, will be presenting on the first quarter financial results along with the presentation materials. And next, there will be some time for Q&A.

We are using the simultaneous translation functions of the Zoom and we are providing both in English and Japanese. [Operator Instructions]

Now we would like to call upon Hamada-san to start the presentation.

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Good afternoon. This is Hamada of Nippon Sanso Holdings Corporation. Now despite your busy schedules, thank you all very much for joining the first quarter earnings call. Now 3:00 today, we were able to report the first quarter results. And the market is quite sensitive. And immediately, the results are reflected on the stock prices. So me, myself, as well as CFO, Draper, are going to explain what are the details on the performance. Today, we would like to take as many questions as possible from the audience. Because of this reason, my explanation is going to be very brief. In regard to the detail, CFO, Draper, will be describing.

First, the overview of the businesses. Well, broadly speaking, overall sales trends, unfortunately, do not indicate the strong growth in the demand. In this environment, we are working to ensure profits by thoroughly implementing price management and productivity improvement activities or otherwise noted as operational excellence in each region and business. As such, we are able to secure profits. Relevant to the national policies, yet foreign exchange rates have changed significantly. And therefore, they had, had the impact on our performance.

First of all, in April, U.S. tariff policy was announced, and it has been quite uncertain and difficult to predict the subsequent evolvement of the things around the world during the first quarter. Basically, as we are elaborating, each and every business department of each business regions are providing the products and services on- site. And therefore, our business is not affected by the tariff significantly at all. And yet the economic situation of that particular regions or country, what are the tariff rates applied to that country, how the industry will change in such economy and countries.

And for all of the questions, customers because of the lack of the certainties, were quite reserved and refrained from making a lot of investment or the business transactions either. And because we are the provider of industrial infrastructure, our business performance wasn't quite good either. Of course, among those, depending upon the business or in the region or country, there are some customers who are keeping a high level of operation rate, or some are quite careful in increasing their production. And all these aspects were reflected in the first quarter results.

Our company is poised to provide a solid services to our customers and provide high-quality products and services on the whole. And our company were bonded together to keep doing so during the first quarter. Just to reiterate, in each regions or businesses, detail will be presented by Mr. Draper, CFO, later. However, one of the highlights of the first quarter results was that, let me just refer to the situation in Japan and the United States briefly.

In the Japanese business, both segment profit as well as profit margin reached their highest levels ever in the first quarter. In particular, the progress of electronics-related equipment constructions were quite good, and that was reflected in our results. But on top of that, the bulk gas price management has been strongly pursued so far in the second half of the last fiscal year. The specialty gases and helium, which are not considered as a work, where we start to explain to the customers and ask for the price revisions, and we were able to achieve the price revision. As such, we were able to secure an appropriate level of profits.

On the other hand, U.S. is really difficult. The separate gas was actually recovering in June of this year, yet for the other products as well as equipment and so forth were sluggish in the first quarter in the United States. As such, we had a poor performance, be it inflation rate and also the purchasing cost hike, and there are many of such impact. In the United States, we try to manage the prices and try to improve the productivity, and we strive for such efforts strenuously. And as a result of that, we were able to recover some of the negative impacts in the environment at large.

Let me talk about investment a little bit. Those are not fully reflected in the performance, but CapEx for us is quite important. In order to stably supply our gas, we have to make CapEx. That is a must. In the past 3 months, as I explained earlier, we were surrounded by the great degree of uncertainty in global economic situation.

So simply put, people consider, but no green light was given to make an investment of CapEx programs, maintenance and repair. Those are the necessary items to ensure stable supply. And those are continued. But for new investment, I held a quite cautious attitude because this is not achievable by ourselves alone. Customers also have a quite cautious attitude, and that is the reason why we did not hear the large-sized project. So production plan or production base, those may be under revision or revisiting by the customers. So that's part of my consideration held until the end of June for 3 months.

Customers' production situation directly leads to the gas sales volume. If the production stops, our gas sales volume is affected as well. But some of the customers had a high level of utilization. So looking at the entire global economy, not everything was bad. So that is a hope for the future. And from the Japanese perspective, tariff rate was mostly fixed. Once the rate is fixed, then each industry will decide what to do. So they will have clarified business policy moving forward. Responding to that, we ourselves will proceed our CapEx plan.

In the past 3 months, investment projects are emerging. So not all the projects are gone. But in the past 3 months, we had a careful examination and consideration on deciding the investment. And of course, we will maintain rigorous review. So it doesn't mean that we will make the onetime aggressive investment. But each industry will carefully examine the timing and all at once, launch may be a possibility. So that's something that might work positively for our business, and I will touch upon backlog later on and topics.

We selected one new director, welcome to the Board. So with the new perspective, many points are raised. So in our strategy, I expect that this person will make a greater contribution to our business moving forward. And there are some positives and negatives in each business, but Coregas acquisition in Australia completed on the 1st of July. So that will be reflected in our performance from Q2 onwards.

And lastly, the investment execution plan. As I said, new projects were restrained. So in that sense, on-site or new air separation device, investments are not increasing significantly, but some are completed. And internal facilities, repair, additional installation of the new equipment, value-wise, there is not much difference. It's not directly related to our production. But looking ahead, to stimulate the future demand, R&D center will play a critical role and figures for R&D are included partially.

So customer response and facilities, we have been having a slightly lower level of investment. But in terms of the value, there's not much difference. From Q2, Q3 onwards, suspended investment projects may be progressing. So I do have high hope. Conversely, we may be spending quite busy time in the coming quarters.

That's all from me. I will hand over to CFO, Alan Draper, to talk about overview of the Q1 results. Over to you.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

Thank you very much, Hamada-san, and thanks, everyone, for being here today. Let me begin by reviewing our consolidated performance for the first quarter of the fiscal year ending March '26, followed by a summary of regional results.

Please turn to Slide 9, please. From April 1 to June 30, 2025, consolidated sales declined 4.4% compared to the same period last year. However, excluding the foreign exchange impact of approximately JPY 14.2 billion, the actual decrease was just 0.1%. Core operating profit was down 5.7%, but excluding currency effects of around JPY 2.2 billion, the decline was 1%.

Our core operating margin was 14.5%, a slight decrease of 20 basis points, while EBITDA margin improved by 20 basis points to 23.8%. As shown on the right-hand side of this page, revenue was impacted by several factors. Currency fluctuations had a negative effect of 4.3%. Volumes declined by 2.5%. Additionally, pass-through adjustments and surcharges contributed to a 0.5% decrease. Compared to the same period last year, the margin decline was largely driven by inflationary pressures, including rising labor, logistics and material costs. Softer volumes also offset the benefits of our price management and operational excellence initiatives. Last year also had some favorability that did not repeat this year.

Please turn to Slide 16. We expect the current softness in volume to persist through the remainder of the fiscal year, given the ongoing uncertainty in the global economic environment. Despite this, we remain focused on disciplined price management and continued improvements in operational efficiency. At this time, we maintain our full year forecast. We have several initiatives that are expected to contribute to both sales and profit this year. These include the recent acquisition of Coregas, as mentioned by Hamada-san, in Australia, which occurred on August -- on July 1. In addition, we have a start-up of a new on-site plant serving a customer in the United States. We anticipate near-term growth, specialty gases and equipment to support our confidence in achieving our forecast.

Please turn to Page 24. Operating cash flow increased by 22% compared to the same period last year, driven primarily by a reduction in corporate income tax payments. This strong performance reflects the underlying resilience of our business and our continued focus on cash generation. Cash flow from investing activities declined 57%. As Hamada-san mentioned, we slowed down capital expenditures in response to uncertainty surrounding U.S. tariff policy. This was a deliberate and strategic slowdown to ensure prudent capital allocation during a period of uncertainty.

Looking ahead, we remain committed to proactive investment. We will continue to evaluate each project carefully with strong emphasis on profitability, strategic fit and long-term value creation.

Now let me move on to performance by region. Please turn to Slide 10. In Japan, revenue totaled JPY 97.4 billion, a decrease of JPY 3.5 billion or 3.5% compared to the same period last year. While pricing was effected and sales of electronics-related equipment and construction remained strong, overall gas shipments did decline. In addition, onetime lease sales recorded in the previous year more than offset the positive contributions, resulting in a year-on-year revenue decline.

Core operating income rose by 15.6% to JPY 13.3 billion, supported by lower-than-expected electricity costs, continued progress in operational efficiency as well. As a result, the COI margin improved by 220 basis points to 13.7%, and the EBITDA margin increased by 270 basis points to 18.6%.

Please turn to Slide 11. In the United States, revenue was JPY 83.9 billion, a year-on-year decline of 9.3%. However, when excluding foreign exchange impact of approximately JPY 8.4 billion, revenue was nearly flat, down just 0.2%. Shipments of air separation gases and carbon dioxide increased, supported by steady progress in price management. However, volumes for hard goods and packaged gases remained soft. Equipment and installation activity, both in industrial and electronics-related segments was weak. Core operating income was impacted by the decline in hard goods and packaged gas volumes despite effective productivity and pricing efforts. As a result, segment income fell 22.6% to JPY 11.4 billion.

Please see the next page. In Europe, revenue was JPY 82.4 billion, a decrease of JPY 2.6 billion or 3.1% compared to the same period last year. Excluding the foreign exchange impact of approximately JPY 2.4 billion, revenue was essentially flat year-on-year. Although gas shipment declined, this was offset by effective price management, ongoing productivity improvements and contributions from Polaris, which is the plant engineering company we acquired last year. Segment profit was impacted by a foreign exchange loss of approximately JPY 400 million and the decrease in gas shipment volume, which offsets the benefit of pricing and productivity. As a result, segment profit declined 3.6% year-on-year to JPY 16 billion.

Please turn to 13, Asia/Oceania segment. Revenue in Asia/Oceania was JPY 42.3 billion, a slight decrease of JPY 0.1 billion or 0.3% compared to the same period last year. However, this includes a foreign exchange impact of approximately JPY 3.1 billion, excluding net sales increased by 7.6%. The growth was supported by contributions from the LPG sales business in Australia, which we acquired last fiscal year as well as the effect of price revisions.

Electronics-related equipment and construction activity also remained strong across the region. However, segment profit declined by JPY 900 million or 20.4% to JPY 3.4 billion. While foreign exchange had a negative impact of JPY 300 million, other factors, including lower sales volume, increased labor and logistics costs also contributed to the decline.

Lastly, please turn to 14. Thermos recorded revenue of approximately JPY 8.6 billion, an increase of JPY 400 million or 4.6% compared to the same period last year. While sales in South Korea was somewhat soft, performance in Japan, which is Thermos' largest market, was strong, driven by the successful product launch, which occurred. Production facilities across the Asia region also delivered solid performance. Segment profit rose by 38.6% to JPY 1.7 billion, supported by the favorable sales, continued cost reduction efforts and lower U.S.-based production costs.

This concludes my overview of the materials. Before we begin the Q&A, I encourage you to take a look at the appendix, which includes additional information you may find helpful addressing topics such as key management indicators on Page 22, a summary of first quarter results by region on Page 26, and trends in revenue and segment income by region on Page 28.

I will now pass the call back over to Ishimoto-san, which will provide the instructions for the Q&A. Thank you for your time and attention.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] President Hamada and CFO, Draper, thank you very much for your presentation. We now would like to take time for Q&A. [Operator Instructions]

From UBS Securities, Omura-san.

[Shunta Omura, analyst]

[Interpreted] Omura of UBS Securities, great to talk to you. Can you hear me?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Yes.

[Shunta Omura, analyst]

[Interpreted] There are two questions. First of all, rather a holistic view where the business environment isn't very strong for you. That was the comment. But by area versus by industry or sectors, what are the business environment? And I'd like to hear more breakdown by region and industry. If you could refer to some of the pages on the regional table toward the right, there are industry-based profitability that you are presenting. And if you could highlight some of the character and tendencies, would be appreciated.

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Thank you very much for your question. Well, as much as possible, we'd like to give color in regard to the regions and industry. Well, I will be briefing at the beginning. And if there's any additions, we'd like to ask Draper to add on later. First, regarding Japan. Now our gas shipment volume was slightly down. In fact, as I explained earlier, through pricing, we were able to keep our profit. And yet what was growing was that equipment for the semiconductor there actually started to be commissioned. As such, that was a positive impact. And therefore, Japan, particularly in the income side, we were able to do quite well. Well, electricity power cost is really stable at this moment. And therefore, we were able to record relatively good performance.

In the case of the United States, it is a bit difficult to classify, but industrial sector on the whole was sluggish. Well, packaged products were sluggish and also CO2-related area was sluggish as well. But as I mentioned earlier, in June, the bulk gas started to recover. That is a clear tendency. Yet on the whole, the overall environment isn't really favorable.

And for equipment installment, perhaps I should call this as electronics. For example, the specialty gas or facility equipment. About 3 years ago, we expected that U.S. market will take off and yet, it is not taking off yet at this moment, and therefore, performance is sluggish. That is the U.S. situation.

For Europe, the gas shipment volume wasn't very strong. And yet, it wasn't a big drop in terms of the volume. There was a minor drop that we observed. And as Alan Draper mentioned earlier, the engineering company, where we started to invest, we're providing the air supply equipment and so forth where the engineering services has actually been incorporated, though their performance is not significant as gas sales, yet we are able to have some positive impact. Although equipment sector on the whole is really performing strongly in Europe, yet we were able to add some figures and results into our group.

In regard to Asia and Oceania, there were quite a diverse situation across countries and regions. The Philippines, where price revision wasn't really progressing, we're finally able to pass on the cost to the customers. However, on the whole, the basis of the volume wasn't growing much yet. Electronics, particularly semiconductor, where new users are started to mobilize our services and yet these are not contributing much to our number yet. In the case of Asia and Oceania, the broader Oceania, for example, Australia, last year, we have completed the acquisition, Kleenheat LPG company, or Coregas, which is poised to grow going forward. Well, when you ask about whether the industry basis is growing much in Australia, perhaps not yet. In terms of our own business, we expect to grow.

There's no activities in China whatsoever, or change in China. In electronics, in Singapore, or front-end process of semiconductor where the users have started to use a meaningful amount of the materials at this moment. Yet, on the other hand, the good performance such as the discrete as well as the back-end operators, there, of course, is still operating, yet are they making much investment to increase their production volume and increasing their production base? Answer is no. The environment would not allow them to do so. So that is the big picture of the situation.

[Shunta Omura, analyst]

[Interpreted] Understood. In regard to the second question, well, in regard to the cost reduction, you have mentioned the regions and the areas where the cost reduction was made. And -- were you able to share the actual results of the cost reduction in each region? Can you comment on that? Well, Mitsubishi Chemical, the parent company of your company, the industrial gas cost reduction numbers are being published by them. And if you could elaborate on the breakdown, that would be appreciated.

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Thank you very much for your question. Now we are pursuing operational excellence actions. And by each business operating companies, what results are being produced and being a holding capacity, we are trying to calculate. But the basis of the cost reduction isn't really equal or the same. And therefore, we have not been prepared well to be able to calculate the cost reduction figures. Yet what we are doing is we'll liquefy products and cylinder gas supply, logistics have been more productive so that the delivery mileage will be minimized as much possible.

In some cases, if you have your own people to drive and that is cheaper. However, when we look at some areas where there are some lack of human resources and therefore, using our own people, perhaps outsourcing is cheaper and so forth. So therefore, the delivery and logistics cost reduction is contributing to a great extent. And by consolidating into the large production facility, of course, there are some cost benefits. But when we look at the 3 months, there were nothing of that nature contributed to cost reduction at this moment. That is all.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] Next, Mr. Yamada from Mizuho Securities.

[Mikiya Yamada, analyst]

I'd like to ask you two questions. Let me start the first one, the currency impact to the balance sheet. If I understand it correctly, the other component of equity as of the June quarter is actually increased on a Q-on-Q basis in spite of the Japan appreciation against major currencies, especially against U.S. dollars. What's the nature of this one? And also, could you please elaborate the nature why the property, plant and equipment account also increased? If I understand correctly, Coregas consolidation started from second quarter. So we believe there should be some new acquisition or something like that. So could you please elaborate those two lines?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Alan Draper will respond.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

So thank you for the question. I'll answer the property, plant and equipment one first. Overall, the total FX impact was relatively small on the property, plant and equipment. It was -- from the end of the year until now, it was about JPY 0.7 billion, so JPY 700 million. So not a significant impact. And then we added back on top of that. We had about JPY 600 million of additions. So the JPY 1.3 billion increase is half currency related and half operations related. So those were the main drivers of the impact from that perspective.

When you look at the other components of equity, other components of equity increased by JPY 12 billion. I think that's the line you're looking at or thinking of. About JPY 15 billion is currency impact. And then we have about minus JPY 3 billion related to other activities that were ongoing. So JPY 15 billion was currency related for other components of equity is a positive.

[Mikiya Yamada, analyst]

Excuse me, if I understand correctly, the Japanese yen appreciation against U.S. dollar, basically, effectively reduced the cumulative translation adjustment through the devaluation of the equity exposure in the overseas operations. Which currency may I ask you affected to increase the cumulative translation adjustment? Is it euro or something else?

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

We're just looking to see if we have that, hold on one second. So maybe you're asking, basically, what currency is driving up the other components of equity increase, which is the JPY15 billion FX?

[Mikiya Yamada, analyst]

Correct. Because the U.S. dollar is basically depreciated against U.S. -- if I understand correctly.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

I don't have the currency breakout at this time.

[Mikiya Yamada, analyst]

Okay. No problem. No problem. So let me move on to the second one. The CapEx, if I understand correctly, the proportion of the chemical and the energy has increased on a Q-o-Q basis as far as the backlog is concerned. What kind of project are you focusing on under the reduction of the overall capital expenditure? I'm referring to Page 7. Yes. A quarter ago, the green part, chemical and energy shared approximately 30%. Now it's approximately 33%. So it's increased by 3 percent points in spite of the reduction of the capital expenditure. What kind of -- what's the nature of the increase of the chemical and energy, if I may ask you?

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

I think overall -- this is Alan, again. I think overall, we have normal churn on a quarterly basis. So projects are always coming in and out, and it's not just 10 or 20 projects. There's 50, 75. There's a lot of projects that we have mixing in and out. So overall, it kind of mixes different directions this time. This time, we have a little bit more of chemicals and energy, but I don't think there's any major change from going from last quarter to this quarter and any major projects. So I think it's just small movement across the segments.

[Mikiya Yamada, analyst]

Okay. So this is just, as mentioned, smaller ones, no particular big events.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

Yes, that's correct.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] [Cho-san] from CLSA.

[Unknown Analyst]

[Interpreted] Cho, CLSA. Can you all hear me?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Yes, I can hear you.

[Unknown Analyst]

[Interpreted] Well, first of all, I'd like to ask about the Japanese situation. And most recently, TSNC, the second phase is canceled. And also, for North American regions, there is a shift from Japan to the United States. And there were some inspection as well. Therefore, profit margin is going to be retained in yet in the next fiscal year or beyond. Are there anything that is driving up the semiconductor business? If there are, please let me know.

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] So situation of semiconductor in Japan and to highlight that particular question, then TSNC program, during the first quarter, there is no impact that is -- that our company is affected. Well, I said that there were adjustment on the change that is actually coming from Hokkaido project. And investment in Japan is postponed a little while, and it's not -- still not sure whether it will be redirected to the United States or redirected to Taiwan at this moment. But be it Hokkaido projects or the completed Kumamoto project, the key is whether the plant is able to move on to the mass production. That we need to carefully discern.

When the plants are successfully moving on to the mass production, and then they will step into the next phase naturally. Therefore, for a long period of time, the semiconductor technology is something that we got involved with. And I do not really worry about this current situation at this moment because semiconductor manufacturers, our customers, where they have a sufficient customers so that they are able to keep producing where some pieces are missing from our point of view. And yet in the meantime, they are going to use the material and try to establish the manufacturing process for the next gen. And it's going to take several months for them to do. So we can expect the sales during that period of time.

And besides the project in Hokkaido and Kyushu, though I'm not able to refer to the customer name where there is a new tower building, new building to be built and also new lines are being built. How much investment they are going to make or how much of an increase of a gas usage is not premature to say at this moment, yet basis of this is that, for example, be it data center or use of semiconductors, in regard to the high-end semiconductor devices, it's not just Japan, but also perhaps in Taiwan, where Japanese business is going to continue to develop.

[Unknown Analyst]

[Interpreted] Let me clarify, during the first quarter, profit margin has improved. And in the second quarter or beyond, can we expect a similar level of profit to be generated? Is this a correct assumption? Are there any onetime factor in the first quarter? If you could supplement information, it'd be appreciated.

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Well, Alan will augment my answer. But in regard to the profit margin, Japan is relatively stable. As I mentioned earlier, price increase efforts, which we made a tremendous effort last year, was quite fruitful. And since this year, we have initiated the actions for the specialty gas and helium and others where we did not take any actions last year, where we started to take actions for the price increase. But demand or the volume itself isn't very good. And as such, margin itself is increasing. When we keep having this situation going forward, the price management will remain as positive impact. And if the volume of the last 3 months continues? No, probably not. And therefore, profit will actually converge into the similar levels as always.

I'm not sure about the United States, but for Europe, the situation is similar to Japan, where the pricing management structure is well put in place. So as much as the economy and the business stabilizes and the customers' usage of gas will restore and therefore, the profit will progress as we expect to have.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

If I can just make a couple of comments as well, please. When you think about the United States, they had a really strong fourth quarter. And with that strong fourth quarter was part of it was their excellent operational performance. All their plants were running basically at peak efficiencies. They didn't have any product dislocation across the globe, so across the region. So everything worked out really well from a logistics perspective. When everything works well, you don't do a lot of maintenance expenses.

So the way I kind of look at it a bit is if you take the Q4 margins and Q1 margins for the U.S., you get around that 16% range. We expect to see U.S. in the second half of the year, the third -- last 3 quarters, more around that kind of getting up back into that 15%, 16% range. So that's obviously the biggest business, but we do expect them to increase. They know they were a bit low. Some of it is related to the strong fourth quarter that we talked about in the period of May.

And then when you look at electronics -- or sorry, the Asia/Oceania business, that business also had a tough fourth quarter. We're improving and getting out of the difficulty, and we expect to see that also to continue to, I'll say, creep upwards back into the range that we were kind of midpart last year.

This is Alan, again. I know Yamada-san had a question that I was answering before. We have an answer regarding the components of equity. Basically, the euro went from JPY 162 in March to JPY 169 in June. So while other currencies depreciated against the yen, the euro actually appreciated. So that was the main driver. They actually were positive, and then they were offset a bit by the U.S. So euro was driving the increase. Sorry, for the delay.

[Mikiya Yamada, analyst]

No problem. I understand. So may I understand that the euro appreciation against Japanese yen also resulted the increase of the goodwill as well as the intangible assets which is basically created as a result of ex Praxair acquisitions.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

Yes, that would be correct.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] Next, UBS Securities, Mr. Omura, please.

[Shunta Omura, analyst]

[Interpreted] Just one question about backlog. I would like to clarify. The end of Q1 balance, I did not catch. So could you share with us about the balance by the end of Q1 and by region, if you have a breakdown, please?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] As usual, this backlog figures, we did not include the smaller projects, less than JPY 500 million. But overall, about JPY 140 billion level remains unchanged. And I just mentioned earlier, our development base, new construction, the several billion yen order. So if we do not consider this as a production facility, then we may be having a slightly lower level of CapEx. But including Japan, carbon gas and other specialty gas, those relatively smaller-sized investment projects are high in number. And those are at from the previous backlog. But in terms of the number of projects, almost the same level. So overall value, JPY 140 billion.

[Shunta Omura, analyst]

[Interpreted] Understood. By region, for example, Japan accounts for how many percentage, or U.S., how many percentage? What is the current snapshot?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Japan, U.S., Europe, by region. I mean, we don't have the estimation. Very roughly speaking, U.S. figures are quite high in terms of the value. In Japan, the value is not so high, but we've got many projects. Europe, we've got a high number of projects. But value-wise, we haven't aggregated, so I'm not able to answer. I think you for your understanding.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] Any other questions? Are there any additional questions? Next is Morgan Stanley, MUFG, Watanabe-san.

[Ryoichi Watanabe, analyst]

[Interpreted] Watanabe speaking at Morgan Stanley. And I actually joined in the middle of the presentation. I'm sorry if I missed your presentation. But in regard to the Japanese segment, in the fourth quarter to the first quarter, the sales is down, but the profit is increasing. And probably, the carbonated gas as well as specialty gas are contributing, but that is quite a significant change. So if you could go through this and from the change from fourth quarter to the Japanese -- to the first quarter in Japan, what were the specific change? And what do you expect in the second quarter and beyond?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Right. Now because it's a number, Alan is going to answer your question.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

Thank you for the question. So going from the fourth quarter to first quarter, the biggest drivers that we have that we're seeing is the pricing continues to do well. So they continue to get pricing into the marketplace. And then probably the second biggest driver is, on top of the pricing, they're seeing moderating or actually really stable or even declining energy and power costs. So when we're getting those 2 mix together, it's showing a good margin expansion, and that's the primary drivers. There's also some other factors, but those are probably the largest two.

[Ryoichi Watanabe, analyst]

[Interpreted] Are there anything else -- well, we should understand. Are there anything else?

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

This is Alan. If you're talking about like nonrecurring activity or anything like that, there's really no significant nonrecurring activity. So it's clean results in Japan. They might have had some sale of equipment that moves around a little bit. But for the most part, there's no -- there's nothing like a nonrecurring activity in the results.

[Ryoichi Watanabe, analyst]

[Interpreted] If I may ask, well, in regard to the United States segmented data, where I'd like to hear more. From the fourth quarter to the first quarter, that is rather a loss or negative side. So looking at your situation, if you could elaborate? And how should I forecast on the second quarter and beyond? If you could give some insights, we appreciate it.

[アラン・デビッド・ドレイパー, executive]

Yes. I think you may -- this is Alan, again. I think you may have missed the comments. But overall, in the fourth quarter, the United States had an excellent quarter running at 19.5% margins. And that was unusually high for them. Their operating performance was excellent. Their plants ran at high efficiency. There was no dislocation or logistic -- extra logistics cost or miles driven. They were -- they didn't have any repairs and maintenance costs because everything ran so efficiently. They didn't have any downtime. And in the first quarter, I'll say things normalized a bit.

So overall, in the fourth quarter -- or first quarter, things normalized a little bit. And what I mean by that is if you look at the fourth quarter margins plus the first quarter margins to combine those, we're around 16%, 16.5%. That's where we expect to be in the second, third and fourth quarter. So we expect to get more into that 15%, 16% range, kind of what we were doing at the beginning of last year. So 19% was an excellent performance. Unfortunately, we can't quite repeat that. Some of those costs that were deferred in the fourth quarter got pushed into the first quarter, and now we expect them to get into that 15%, 16% range.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] Any other question? CLSA, [ Mr. Cho ], please.

[Unknown Analyst]

[Interpreted] Excuse me once again. In the past, I asked the same question. As for the synergy with Mitsubishi Chemical, any update on this? I would appreciate. Tanabe Mitsubishi is a spun off. And in the chemical, restructuring on progress. So as Nippon Sanso, any synergy generation-related activities, if you can share with us.

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] As for synergies, there are minor items that we try to identify, especially in electronics, as might have been said, a number of areas that we can harmonize. But it does not instantly reflect the better net sales and profit that hasn't checked yet. But Mitsubishi Chemical and ourselves, compound semiconductor, both parties are putting extra emphasis on. So tech base to be commonized to derive what sort of a business.

So in a broader sense, compound semiconductor, gallium is something, not just limited to the specific compound, but in a wider scope, if we can work together, we have been constantly exploring that option. Unfortunately, we are not able to share with you about the large-sized project, but we are still trying to find out disease for the possible studies. So we are still under study.

[Unknown Analyst]

[Interpreted] All right. Electronics is the main field. Apart from that -- so your primary focus is electronics, right?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Mitsubishi Chemicals business segments and our segmentation is slightly different. So I am not sure that the same term can be used. But for both companies, electronics is a prospectus area, and that has been commonly understood. So in that sense, within the scope of electronics, that may be the correct perception.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] Next is Kono-san of Nomura Securities.

[河野 孝臣, analyst]

[Interpreted] This is Kono of Nomura. Well, Asia/Oceania segment, where I'd like to ask about the electronic situation. According to document for equipment and installation sales is increasing and yet what about gas sales, electronics and semiconductor, what is going on in Asia? Could you elaborate?

[Toshihiko Hamada, executive]

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. Now in Asia/Oceania, electronics-related sales, particularly it's like equipment is something that indicates the Taiwanese area, where the production cylinder cabinet where there are something that we manufacture and provide in Taiwan, similar or more so than Japan. In Taiwan, the semiconductor plants are having a lot of installation work and there are new plants and so forth, where it is quite active. So that is actually contributing to equipment and installation.

What about gas then? In Taiwan, in fact, gas business is performing quite well all through the years. There were no major decline at all, and it is very steadfast growth. And in regard to Asia and Oceania, in China, well, we are providing more gas from Japan and that is where we are not prepared to provide more in China. So therefore, our Chinese plant are providing the Chinese customer. So that is a core pillar in our Chinese business. And yet Chinese electronics is quite active. Well, gas is used, so and so, and because our Chinese plant is providing gas to Chinese market.

Well, South Korea is not quite active. We do have our own plant in South Korea. On the whole, they are a bit sluggish now. That's my impression. So in the case of South Korean territory, we are not providing equipment installation service a lot. So we don't have a full information. So semiconductor gas shipment is the only number which we have, but which is a bit sluggish in South Korea. Though the volume isn't very large, be it Singapore or Southeast Asia, the semiconductor in these areas is edging up by a certain notch. They are gradually increasing. But like I mentioned earlier, there were no massive news like a big plant is about to be completed or they are going to start. And therefore, the gas supply or the usage will not grow drastically, but it is a very steadfast process that we are seeing an increase.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] Any other questions? So with this, we would like to conclude the Q1 earnings call. Thank you very much indeed for your kind participation despite your busy schedule. The content of the conference call will be uploaded on our IR page of our website. So if there's anything unclear, please contact us at the IR office. Thank you very much indeed.

[Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]