Container Corporation of India Ltd
NSE:CONCOR
Container Corporation of India Ltd
NSE:CONCOR
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Container Corporation of India Limited Q2 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call hosted by IDFC Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair from IDFC Securities. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Good morning, everyone. On behalf of IDFC Securities, I would like to welcome you to the Q2 FY '20 earnings call of CONCOR. The management today is being represented by Mr. Kalyana Rama, Managing Director. I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Rama for his initial remarks, post which we'll open up the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Yes, thank you, Bhoomika. Good morning to all of you. The second quarter results are out and in line with the economy, overall economy, we could not maintain our forecast guidance. So the volumes are a little lower now in the first quarter. And combined first half yearly, the originating volumes have come down by 4%, then handling volumes have gone down by 1.5%. Of course, on the revenue side, we just kept our head high with a little increase in our revenue top line, around 1.8% and the bottom line at 6%. Am I right?
Absolutely.
So this is in the overall, the economy is -- it's still to look up. We expected that in Q2. We will be able to pick up the volumes with the measures taken by the government. But as of now, it looks like it may take some more time for things to stabilize and the volumes to come on to the Indian shores. The export/import market is subdued. The positives we just have that we could increase our lead distance because we are not getting into the short lead, where the margins are, in fact, negative margins, people are working. So we are not really competing in that, even though we are doing some sharp lead traffic from Mumbai port, but that is in margins. We are not doing any negative margin business anywhere. So overall share has come down, but our lead has gone up a little bit. And as of now, what we expect for this whole year, looking at the first 6 months performance is that we may end up this year on the volumes side flat, or maybe just a little bit of growth of 1% to 2%, maximum. And on the revenue side, we may be a little positive around 4%, 4% to 5%. And on the bottom line, maybe around 5% to 8%. This is what we are now forecasting. And as I always say that we try to improve on our forecast. So let me see how the things work out because the extraneous factors are not helping us this year. After 11 quarters, this 12th quarter, we could not really come up with other good performance. But in this current scenario, I think, yes, our performance is good. It's not bad. We are able to keep up and keep our head high and float at least in the double water as well. Thank you.
Sir, should we open the floor for question and answer?
Yes, please.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Shrinidhi from HSBC.
Congratulations on a decent set of numbers in a difficult environment. Sir, my first question really is on -- I want to know, out of this 3.8 million volume that we do annually on handling front, on how much percentage of volume do we really pay land license fees? And what is currently last contracted method of determining this land license fees and to what rate are these typically go up? And my second question is on this rail freight advance claim we were supposed to pay something like INR 1,500 crore second installment on 30th September, have you already paid that or whether it doesn't seem so in your current assets on the balance sheet? That's my second question, sir.
Regarding the land license fee. This year, we are paying the land license fee at INR 1,175 per TEU, per loaded container, so. Now this -- the second part of the first question, what you asked, how much we are doing and what will be the -- so we are not ready with those numbers, but we keep on doing wherever our depots are coming. The markets are shifting. We normally shift our business to our warm land so where we need not paying any land license fees. So out of the total volume, how much is going on, on the railway line, I can give you as a ballpark figure, maybe around 40%, 45%.
Okay. That's it. Okay. 40% 45%, on which we are paying this 17 -- like INR 1,175.
Land license fee for 3 years, next year, again, we will be having a review with the railways. For last 3 years, it is linked to our PAT. So if the PAT increases, it increases, if PAT decreases, it decreases. So for last -- from last year, because of our PAT increase, good PAT increase, it is increased to INR 1,175 this year. Last year, we paid around INR 865 or INR 1,015 we paid.
Okay. Fair enough, sir. And my second question is...
Second question is regarding?
Advanced freight.
Advance freight. We are not paid. We are not paid. And now we got time in November, we will decide on that, and we will let you know the decision in due course.
Okay. So your update to not to pay that range, let's say.
As of now, we are not paid, okay?
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital.
Sir, I want to check what is this discount of INR 9 crores for the eligible SEIS income booked in other expenses?
This is if we monetize this. And we sell the SEIS in the market, you may not get INR 100 out of INR 100. We discount it little bit. So we kept that discount on 5% of the value. That means we are expecting 95% discount to come out of the INR 1.
Okay. And when is this expected to be received or the scripts?
As of how the recession has come, but this is -- we are investing this. Let me tell all of you that the SEIS, as far as we are concerned, we are eligible for this. We got our legal opinion. But because now it has been denied by the government department, concerned department, we have provided for it. We are not written off. We just gave a provision for this, made INR 861 crores. And now we are going for appeal. There is a process for this. First, we have to go for the appeal to the appellate authority and once appellate authority if we get either of the result, then the next step is to the committee of secretaries, through our secretary and then -- there is so much of procedure is involved in this. So as of now, it's not that we have totally written off, and we are not claiming that, we are still claiming. And the legal opinion is what we got is, we will get it. Because there are other people who got it for these services. That is a position. So whatever we got, that we'll be receiving very shortly. And once we receive it, then we'll go for the monetization.
Got it. And sir, this deferred tax of INR 250 crores. This is on account of the adjustment for the tax, which is paid for the ineligibility income?
Yes, exactly, whatever has been provided, now we can't get that tax adjustment unless we write off. So as of now, it will be under deferred tax.
Okay. And any adjustment for shifting to a new corporate tax rate also in this?
The deferred tax, it is there, I think.
Sir, last year, Q2 we had paid INR 97 crores, this we have paid only INR 33 crores.
So there is -- yes, we changed the venue of tax without taking any benefits on other sections. We are going for the flat rate, what has been offered by the government. So there is a tax saving last -- compared to last Q2, this Q2 we paid only 1/3 almost, INR 97 crores to INR 33 crores.
Okay. And sir, out of the total terminals...
I think you are asking too many questions, Ankita.
Sir, last.
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
How many terminals are leased terminals out of the 86 terminals?
Now 8 are our exclusive terminals. You are asking for railways or land lease?
Yes, yes, yes.
Railway land lease is 41 terminals.
The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial.
Can you help us with the originating volume and the lead distance? That's my first question.
For half yearly, the originating volume both for EXIM and Domestic is [ 1169,165 ].
Could you please split it and for the quarter?
It is for the half yearly. And for the quarter, it was basically [ 610,223 ].
Got it. And split in terms of EXIM and Domestic, sir?
Split. Originating of EXIM for the half yearly is [ 1033.319 ]. And for Domestic, it is [ 135,846 TEU ]. And for the quarter, EXIM is [ 541,375 TEU ]. For Domestic [ 688,48 TEU. ]
And sir, lead distance?
Lead distance, this year, the lead is [ 786 ] compared to [ 773 ] of last year.
This is for the quarter, you mean, sir?
For the half yearly. We do some mathematics and you will get the quarter number.
Sure. And with respect to the market share, you said...
Market share has come now -- I told -- I already mentioned market share this year, we are at 67.4% compared to last year's 73.1% for the half year.
Next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Antique Stockbroking.
Sir, my first question is on this not participation on the loss-making routes, when you say. It is specific to all ports or is it specific to, like, the NPT or, like, select ports?
Have I mentioned loss making? I said short hauls.
Yes. So you were mentioning some of the industry participants are doing.
When you do short haul, you are doing a combination with road. So there is -- if you do a short-haul by rail, there is an extra handling involved in the short hauls. Come back to road because we have to handle it one of the rail points and then take it to the destination. So we have to build a sufficient margins to be competitive there. So there are these short hauls are going at the control computation. Somebody -- some players are trying to get volume numbers, they are doing it in 2 margins. Those sectors, we are participating, but we are participating without negative margins. This is particularly happening from Mumbai port. In other ports, the short hauls are not there.
And accordingly, a loss of market share is also related to some loss of share at Mumbai port, the NPT port?
Yes, Mumbai port and some maybe at Mundra Port compared to last year.
Okay. And sir, regarding this taxes, again, just related question to previous participant. So on SEIS, if you have to adjust the tax from the tax rate and the loss on INR 861 crores, what is the tax rate we should assume on that?
Whatever tax we paid, we'll get it back. We need not worry about tax rate.
No, sir, when we -- like addresses INR 248 crores of deferred tax.
Listen to me, first you can listen to me then you can ask your clarification question. Whatever we are now has given provision. We can't adjust that tax because it is provision. Only when this is written off, then the tax is readjusted. So when if -- if that is to be written off, whatever tax is paid at whatever rate, that will we get the credit of that. Am I clear?
Yes, clear. So just asking that rate so for SEIS, what would be that rate?
Whatever we last year paid. Now this rate is maybe at 34.18% something. So it will be the rate. So that is deferred tax, we are only seeing the figure of deferred taxes that only.
Correct. So it is higher than -- it's a standard, not like 28%, which we generally have our overall rate.
So this year, it has come down to 25.63% something. Earlier, it is 34.18%.
Other taxes we paid 28%.
So that we paid provisions, that we did different sectional benefits. That is not tax rate. So that's -- don't get confused on all these calculations. We have given you deferred tax. So whatever tax we paid, we get back.
And just one question on this port wide share for CONCOR and I mean rail share of at different ports, which we generally take share?
Yes, at JNPT, the rail coefficient is 16.67% and our CONCOR share is 68%. At Mundra, it is 26.97% rail share, we are 45.4%, and Pipavav, it is 71.44%, we are at 50.8%.
Next question is from the line of Ankur Periwal from Axis Capital.
First question on the MT. Now you did mention that there has been an increase because of the export/import mismatch. So if we then share the MT movement cost for both EXIM and Domestic for the quarter.
MT movement, I can give you for the half year, this is half year. For the Q2, the MT -- total MT movement costs were [ INR 62.55 ] crores as against of last year, we have had INR 64.84 crores.
Sure. And sir, if you can break it up into EXIM and Domestic?
EXIM, it is 32.35%. Domestic, it is 30.20%. The last year, Q2, it is 37.80% and 27.04%.
Sure. So Mr. Rama's comment in terms of the gap between export and import, the MT increasing...
There is 25% drop in MT haulage rates, Ankur. So that you have to talk to him.
Okay. So adjusted for that, you are saying probably the number of which this number is not 25% lower year-on-year. So that net-net has increased for us?
Yes.
Sure. Yes, sir.
Go ahead.
So secondly, on the Indian Railways, overall volume. Now will it be possible to share overall CONCOR's volume in million tonnes and how it has behaved year-on-year basis for the first half.
For the first half, originating million tonnes, we did total of 1.169 million TEUs. The million tonnes ...
For the first half, it 20.86 million tonnes. Last year, we have 22.02 million tonnes.
Okay. Fair enough. That's helpful. And sir, lastly, in terms of your outlook going ahead. Now has there been any -- while the macro has been slightly slow, but are we seeing any traction in terms of higher growth at the newer terminals, the MMLPs that we have opened up or the other ones?
See, the whole market is going kaput. So our performance as far as I mentioned, always what for the purpose, we start with MMLPs, we are on traction. But overall volume growth is low. So it's everywhere. Volume growth is everywhere except for one traffic that is Nepal-bound traffic. So Nepal is doing good imports. But our imports and exports are subdued.
Next question is from the line of Bhavin Gandhi from B&K Securities.
So firstly, just going back to the land lease charge. That land lease charges now that we are not -- at least for now, we are not eligible for SEIS and the profit is reduced, is there a scope for downward revision on the lease?
See, when PAT comes down, it will come down.
Okay. So there is a provision for downward revision as well?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Okay. And second, sir, there was recently the ultra short lead policy, which was announced by Indian Railways in the middle of September. So will that help us recoup that share that we've lost out?
No. See, that's what. In short lead, we are doing without any negative margin. So we are also doing some traffic from Mumbai Port to Karambeli we are running, Mumbai Port to Dronagiri Node we are running. But we are not running at negative margins and we are doing some traffic between Chennai Port to Tondiarpet, whenever there is a road strike or some evacuation problems at the Chennai Port, that's an 8-kilometer stretch. We are doing those like last -- this quarter, we have done some -- maybe around 20, 25 trains between Chennai Port to Tondiarpet Marshalling Yard. Our depot at Tiruvottiyur.So all these places, we are trying to not to go for negative margins. So the whole issue is the people who are in -- doing these circuits, they are doing at negative margins. So that is why even our numbers are less, our margins are improved.
Next question is from the line of Abhilasha Satale from Dalal & Broacha.
Sir, like, just on operational basis, if I see our EXIM margins have improved to around 23%. And this is, like, I'm seeing the quarter-on-quarter also there is an improvement. So this is in spite of our volume growth has been subdued. So what are the major reasons which have contributed? And as volume growth improved in H2, is there a further room for margin improvement?
Yes. Our margins improved because we increased our -- the freight rates, we adjusted 5% on the 1st of April. And also there are additional charges, we started collecting last year in the month of August. So this time, it started from July for this quarter.
We controlled expenditure also.
And expenditure we controlled. And we have our lead increase. Lead on the EXIM side, it increased to 724 kilometers against 704 in the last year. So these are all helping us. That's where -- when we are not participating in this negative margin business, obviously, our positive margin business, the margins are improving.
Yes, sir. And so -- I mean, I am -- we see volume improvement in H2. Although, like, it will be slower than what we have been doing in, say, but will be -- is there a further improvement room for margin as our volume improve?
Right, right. If the H2 volumes are good, then definitely margins will be better.
Okay. Sure. And this -- our interest cost have increased during the quarter, however our borrowings are not increased, so what is the reason?
Interest cost we've not increased. Maybe you are looking at the half yearly figure, H1 to H2. H1 to H1 of last year to this year. Our -- whatever advance we have taken as a working capital loan that we repaid in 2 months time. So that all the interest payment has factored in first quarter. The second quarter, there is no interest payment. We are a debt-free company. So there is no interest payment in second quarter at all. Last year, there was no interest payment in both the quarters.
Okay. Okay. And this -- our current assets have reduced from INR 4,279 crores to INR 1,492 crores. So I understand this was mainly towards SEIS and advance freight payment. So can you just bifurcate how much we have adjusted towards advanced freight payment?
Yes. So INR 1,891 crores is the figure that is the new number for INR 3,000 crores that we have given in H1, right? And INR 861 crores we have adjusted towards SEIS. So these 2 have come out of this INR 4,275 crores figure.
Next question is from the line of Ankit Panchmatia from B&K Securities.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, a bit of detail on the CapEx side, what was the CapEx for H1 and the number of terminals, if you can share?
In H1, we have not started any new terminal. But this year, we will be targeting to start around 8 terminals that is for cargoes. Pipavav we started 1 terminal. In H1 in that Pipavav we started operations. So that is accounted in this H1, 1 terminal we've started is Pipavav. So 7 more terminals we are targeting this year. And CapEx expenditure in H1, we did almost -- INR 124 crores is the capital expenditure till this December 30, but we will be able to achieve our INR 1,000 crores capital expenditures by end of the second to third quarter. Because mostly are wagon procurement this time, so these wagons start coming from the November, somewhere in November, middle of November. So we are sure that we will be able to achieve our capital expenditure.
So sir, the ordering of the guidance had already been done, right? So it is just that...
Yes, ordering is done. Now see, these are new wagons, these are 25-tonne axle load wagons, which are compliant to the BLC running. So this is the first time we are bringing them on to the tracks. One -- the first freight, we may get around in the middle of November.
Okay. Okay. Okay. And sir, a number of MMLPs active at this point of time. And any flavor on the ...
84 now and 7 more we are trying to add in this year. Out of which 8 -- with 8 we got exclusive tie-ups.
Sir, I'm asking about this multimodal logistics parks.
Multimodal logistics parks. How many now? Out of 15, 12 will come again. 12 will be commissioned. And see, now whatever we are doing, we are doing in MMLP mode.
Okay. And sir, coastal shipping revenue during the quarter?
We will give you later. That is not ready right now.
No issues, sir. No issues. Sir, double-stacking number of trains, if I can ...
If you are asking -- 674 trains. So this quarter, 674 and half yearly it is 1,432 compared to last year, 1,641. And quarter in the last 2 years, second quarter, 812.
Next question is from the line of Bharat Sheth from Quest Investments.
Congratulations in a good state of number in prime time. Sir, you say that we expect, I mean, the top line growth of around 5%, 6% for full year. So in first half, we have grown by, say, 1.4%. So in second half, our growth would be also more than, I mean around 6%, 7%?
Top line, how much we've grown?
We've grown by 4.90%, minus SEIS. If you compare ...
If you are to compare absolute, Bharatji, so it will be 4.9% in the first year without taking SEIS on both sides.
And when you say the PAT also, so without -- I mean, factoring then in SEIS income last year, I mean, bottom line growth.
Bottom line growth this year it is how much? 12-point?
16.6%.
16.6% for the H1.
Okay. Without -- I mean ...
The theme is on both sides.
Okay. But sir, just to understand, I mean so this theme for current year has not yet been announced, correct?
No, I did not announce.
And how do we see, sir, I mean, these MMLP increasing and we were focusing more on domestic growth. So are we gaining some, I mean kind of a market share in domestic business? And how do we see this EBITDA margin of domestic business?
EBITDA margins in domestic business has slightly improved this H1 to H1. And also, we have seen lot of traction in domestic business, but then the domestic market is also not good, export/import even domestic market as well is not -- is slowed down. So that buoyancy is not visible in domestic market as well as of now. We are working on some new streams in domestic.
So can you elaborate a little more? I mean which are the new stream that we are working and how is the initial?
See, last time I mentioned, movement of commodities in bulk in container.
Correct.
Yes, that is now in food grains. Our trials are completed. Now we have to go ahead with our marketing, we have already started that. But these are very new concepts. These are pathbreaking concepts. See, once we get this business, then it will be really a good business. Coastal also we started, we are getting traction. Again, there was some slowdown in the entire -- because of economic slowdown, there also some effect has come. And cement is another product which we're trying to bring in a movement in bulk in containers in their flexis. In that the trials are going on and we are sure that we will be completing those trials very soon because we could do some trials successfully, the technicals are worked out, now only the practical trials have to go on. After that, we'll work out the commercials and then we'll start marketing them. So when these streams come, the volumes on domestic side will increase.
Okay. Sir, you said that, I mean this food grain trials are over now we are going for marketing. So it is successfully completed, correct, trial run?
Yes. Yes, completed successfully. Now we have to get people. See, I am ready with the movement in commodity in bulk. Now my customers also they have to have some arrangements and their consumption and then their procurement tends to do in bulk. So now these things, we are working with them. It was, as I said, because these are totally pathbreaking moves, they will take some time. We -- that is why we are not expecting any great revenues out of that in this financial year, and we are not forecasting anything. These are all for the future, we are working on. And also, there is a concept of container as a warehouse, which also is getting traction. So we will be eliminating a lot of handling and intermediate transportations.
Okay. And sir, last thing, I mean on this subsidiary business cold storage. So when do we expect it to start to -- I mean making money? I mean still in H1, also, it has lost good amount of money and we have ...
It isn't making money. But it started, the revenues are coming. But the expenditure side because we revived it from the complete shutdown stage when this still happen. So we did the impairment test in the beginning of this financial year. For our impairment testing, it takes 10 years to recover the entire money from that.
Next question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Spark Capital.
Firstly, sir, you had mentioned that about 40% to 45% of your current handling volumes is what you're paying the land license fee on. Could you give some sense on how this would have been, say, couple of years back this number for 40% to 45%.
We don't have an analysis right now with us.
But is it fair to say that this number is going down? Sir, as you're trying to move the volumes to your own terminals, is that a fair assumption that it is going down?
Yes, that's a fair assumption.
Right. Any targets you have in the next couple of years? I mean as your new terminals are now getting commercialized, save you a lot of license fee and even further 8 more terminals you're adding, how could this go down further in the next 2, 3 years? Any targets that you have?
We have not kept any targets out there. But yes, if we can keep on going down comparatively and more and more volume will be handled at our places. Like, one market is Vizag, where now entire volume is getting handled in our own terminals, which used to be 100% at the railway-based terminal. Now that terminal we completely stopped. So in Sabarmati, also in Ahmedabad, we completely moved to our own terminal, where we don't pay any land license fee. So these shifts keep happening. In NCR region also, the markets it is moving to the outskirts of Dadri, we are moving the volume. So we have not kept any target. But yes, fair assumption. What I can say, maybe in next 5 years, if you ask me a ballpark figure, is we may come down to 30% of our volumes at railway terminals.
Okay. That's fair enough, sir. And secondly, my question is, I mean you had mentioned about volumes being weak, obviously, because of the EXIM activity. And we have taken a 5% kind of price hike beginning this year. Are there any pressures on discounts going up now? Because we're hearing from some other players that there is some pressure around pricing. So how is CONCOR looking at it? Any volume-based discounts that we are kind of looking to increase to get some additional market share?
Yes. Look, this is an investor conference, where I will talk about my results. So no forecasting of the marketing techniques. However, as I've mentioned already, that I am not participating in negative margin business. Even though our volumes reduced, our margins are higher, our revenues are better, and we could come out with definitely a good balance sheet in these times.
Right. Right. Fair enough
Does that answer your question?
Yes. Just last one is, I mean you're expecting DFC to start operations soon in the next few months. Any sense on what kind of pricing could be there in terms of rail haulage on the DFC?
If you can tell me when you are starting DFC operations, then I'll tell you that.
In the next 1 year...
You are telling that you are expecting DFC to come. Look, as of now, the indication -- the decision is what we got in the communication is that the pricing will be same.
Next question is from the line of Pawan Parakh from Renaissance Investment Management.
Yes. Sir, I just have one question on this SEIS income. One is that the complication to you, does it mention any reasons why this -- why the claim is -- claim amount is lower than what you have with you -- what you have considered? And secondly, your competitors have received this money quite some time back, why has been a delay at your end for this?
You answered your own question, second part. Our competitors have received it and we got denied. So that is why I mentioned that we are going for further process. We have not given up our claim, and we only provided for this. That's the provision of INR 861 crores. Now why they denied it to us and why they paid the competitors, I can't answer this question. There's a department -- concerned department, there's the -- DGFT has to answer this. Regarding the element what has been denied is the SEIS income, which they have to give on bonded transportation from inter-land to port and port to inter-land, which in their view is not covered under the scheme, but which in the -- our view and in the legal opinions what we have taken is covered. And for that only, our competitors have been paid and we are denied.
Okay. I mean irrespective of whether you're denied or not, any reason why your claims have been delayed and your competitors got it before you?
Yes, how can I answer this question? I already told you, you have to go and ask DGFT this question. Why you have not a paid a PSU and why you paid our competitor? And then let me know the answer.
Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities.
Congratulations for good results in challenging times like these. I had a question. The question was you talked about short lead distance volumes and no negative margin business. I wanted to ask you on the long lead distance volumes, are there any volumes that are today negative margin wherein you'd want to take price hikes incrementally?
I don't do negative margin, Aditya. That's what I'm telling. I don't do negative margin business. Now mostly the negative margin business is happening on the short lead. On the long lead, yes, in some lanes, the negative margin business is being done by some of the operators. But still, we got our own volumes there. Because in the long lead, even though there may be a negative margin contribution by some operators, there are customers who look for the service levels. So we gain those volumes. And we never participate in negative margin business to increase our numbers. We made it very clear to our customers, to our competitors and to the market at large that we are not -- we only maintain our service levels, we'll not go for the price cut and to improve our numbers.
Got that, sir. Sir, the second question was on the domestic business. Do you see that -- do you feel that DFC can actually have a positive impact even in the domestic business? Or there's more need to be done for domestic business to revive from here on?
You see, DFC can impact domestic business but to some extent, because, see, domestic business cannot be only on this corridor. Whatever is happening on this corridor. So the domestic business happening on the DFC corridor is from movement from Gujarat areas into NCR region and as well as further into the Eastern region. So these things, there will be a positive effect on that because the domestic and EXIM combined, we can run double-stacks. Because we are into both the things, it is possible. We did these things earlier. Combined domestic EXIM clients that, again, we will work on those circuits. And we'll -- axle load will go up. It is 25 tonnes and we are coming over those wagons is, as I mentioned to the earlier question, these wagons are rolling out in the month of November. And we are the first ones to bring those wagons. And I don't think anybody else has even order these wagons. So we will be able to take advantage of this. To that effect, yes, domestic will get a boost because of the DFC operations.
Got that. Sir, the last question from my side was more on the results that are specific to the other expenses, there is an amount of INR 9.15 crores that someone else was also asking. This amount would also have been there in the previous 2Q FY '19 quarters also? And maybe a larger quantum, right? Because over there, the SEIS have been -- it's actually even higher, or is it only a discount being given which...
See, the question is we have not provided for this in any of the earlier quarters. We were realizing and recognizing the complete INR 100 income as it is. The same wants the SEIS, they have been denied some. And they said, we will get a part of it. We have taken the monetization losses and we said -- on the conservative side was that 5% we assumed and we provided for it.
Got that. Got that. Any other reason why other expenses would have been higher because even if I adjust for this quantum, it's still up 15% Y-o-Y?
I think it is too much -- not a materialistic difference, isn't it? Anyhow, what is your question, exact question?
Essentially, sir, your revenues are not growing and your other expenses even adjusted for this INR 9 crore amount are at 15% Y-o-Y. So I just thought if I can get some more color as to why -- some meaningful line item on the cost side for you. That's what I was asking.
My expenditure has gone down. Expenditure has gone down, that is what my DFC is telling me. How can you say they're expecting...
FY to FY or even Q2 to Q2, if you take a call. My expenses have gone down. If you talk about total expenditures it has come down from INR 1,318 crores to INR 1,3...
No, no. You send that mail, Aditya. Let's see what is your exact question on what aspect? If I can answer you on that, we will answer you by mail, okay?
Next question is from the line of Shrini Karlekar from HSBC.
Sir, what I want to understand is like out of the volume, both imports and exports that we generate north of Kathuwas terminal. How much of that volume goes on double-stack? I know you gave quantification of double-stack in terms of number of trains. It will be helpful to can give in terms of boxes, like how many boxes go in second stack?
Yes, we don't have those figure right now. You send us mail, let us see what the best we can, I'll give you...
Send a mail.
Sure. Sure. I'll send that mail, sir. And sir, my second question is, like, out of INR 800 crore to INR 1,000 crore CapEx that we typically do every year, how much is typically on maintenance CapEx?
There is no maintenance CapEx, maintenance is OpEx.
Okay. So all the CapEx is typically growth CapEx for us. That's right, sir?
Absolutely. All maintenance expenditure is booked in CapEx (sic) [ OpEx ].
Next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial.
The other income, is there any one-off items out here, sir, like first quarter we had INR 28 crores of interest on the IT refund. Is there any similar...
No, there is no one-off item this quarter.
Got it. Secondly, the MTs, would it be possible to give the mix in terms of the volume, how much of the volume would be MTs this quarter, like a ballpark number?
That is not readily available now. It's not available. You send a mail, we will try to give you back.
Sure. And just a clarification, sir, on the CapEx part, you mentioned INR 124 crores for first half. I was looking at the cash flow statement in the results, it mentioned INR 1,080 crores we have spent. So just thought of understanding the clarifications.
INR 1,080 crores? First half that's what he's saying -- you're talking about what? INR 1,080 crores in CapEx side?
Yes, yes. INR 1,010 crore as payment made for proper fund and equipments.
Oh, that is that -- INR 925 crore you're talking about or what item you're talking about?
INR 1,010 crores.
INR 1,110 crores.
That includes all our Ind AS changes also, where we have taken this operating lease to finance lease calculations. That is also part of it.
How much would that quantum be, sir?
So you minus this INR 128 crores.
It's that substantial. Okay. Got it.
Next question is from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from Jefferies Group.
Sir, sorry, I missed your point where you gave the market share detail port wise. Could you please repeat that?
Port wise market share in JNPT, we got 68% now. In Mundra, we got 45.4%. And in Pipavav, we got 50.8%.
Great, sir. Very helpful. Sir, one more question. On your cement trials, could you help me -- help us understand which are the regions we are looking at this and this is happening basically?
It is all over India. See, cement is consumed across India. So the cement trial is basically movement of bulk cement in containers. So once it is successful, then it will be moved across India and many sectors. There are cement plants in Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan. So wherever there are limestone deposits, there are cement plants, in Madhya Pradesh. The cement clusters in India are mainly 3 clusters. And 1 cluster is that 4 clusters is in Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, 1 on the west side of Andhra Pradesh -- earlier Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, there is 1 cluster. And in Andhra Pradesh, Chittoor, there is other cluster. So all these clusters they made movement. All these bulk movement when we start, this can happen in all these clusters.
Next question is from the line of [ Preet ] from [ Wealth ].
Just could you help me understand what is the -- what kind of work happens with the Transport Corporation joint venture that you have?
That is a joint venture working on the -- providing last-mile logistics and first-mile logistics and then business associate work.
Okay. So how is that part function over the last first half?
It is not part of this conference.
Next question is from the line of Shalini Gupta from Quantum Securities.
During the call, you had mentioned your MT running charges. If you could please repeat that?
So the first half yearly, this MT total cost we've paid is INR 101.45 crores against last year corresponding half year, INR 122.93 crore. And one break up in the -- it is EXIM with INR 60.55 crores and domestic is INR 40.90 crores against last year, it was INR 67.33 crores and INR 55.60 crores.
The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Antique Stockbroking.
Sir, first question is on -- can you give volume mix at the -- for CONCOR across ports, which you generally share?
I've given you the share of the volume, no? That percentages I've given you.
No. So volume mix of CONCOR's volume like JNPT, Mundra, like JNPT we had 33% or something like that.
Yes. Okay. That you want? JNPT is 32%, 32.26%, Mundra is 32.41%. Pipavav has contributed 15.53%. You wrote it down?
Yes. So these are first half or like Q2?
First half, first half. I'm not given any 2-quarter figures here. It is all for half yearly figures. Chennai Port has given 5.63%, Vizag has given 6.54%. Rest all -- the major ports have given 51.23%. So this is -- rest is at the other ports.
Correct. And sir, just on split on lead distance, there was this sanction of 1-night sleep distance of 724 is EXIM, what was it in domestic?
Domestic is 1,356.
1,356 and total is 786?
Yes.
Next question is from the line of Girish Achhipalia from Morgan Stanley.
Just a couple of clarifications. Firstly, this guidance is excluding SEIS apple-to-apple or?
Yes, yes. Excluding SEIS income.
Yes. So when you're saying 5% to 8% PAT growth, that is excluding SEIS for the base year as well?
Yes, yes.
Okay. Sir, on this Ind AS adjustment that has happened. So INR 1,010 crores minus INR 128 crores, it's almost INR 800-plus crores. What exactly has happened here? I mean what line items have got impacted in the P&L?
Mostly the lease -- see now the lease for Ind AS, the lease will be taken as financial lease, and the depreciation is available on the lease.
So is it our depreciation -- yes, so depreciation that we've reported in the P&L now is understated for this adjustment, is that the way one should look at it? Or had this adjustment not been done, would the depreciation been higher?
So this is -- yes, the depreciation must have got an effect of that. If do not decline for it, expenses will come down.
Expense have come down. Depreciation is now whatever has been -- what is the depreciation reported quarter-to-quarter? This year, INR 127 crore. Last year, INR 104 crore.
No sir, in the quarter.
Quarter.
Actually INR 253 crore against INR 206 crore, so the subject was more.
So it is more, no? Depreciation is more this year. Why you're telling understated?
So it is INR 253 crore against INR 206 crores over the last H1, there is INR 47 crores increase in the depreciation. And quarter-to-quarter, also, there is INR 127 against INR 104, INR 23 crores extra.
Yes. So there will be some impact to the operating expense, right? It's just clarification.
Operating expenses will come down because we are doing a capitalization as per Ind AS. So depreciation will become.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Abhijit Mitra from ICICI Securities.
So I have 2 questions. First, on the amount of origination volumes that you are handling on the railway land. I think you mentioned the amount of percentage is 40%, 45%, but just for understanding the profitability of this handling will be much more on overall pie that you are generating, right?
What is that?
The percentage of profitability that this volumes supply or generate to the overall pie.
I don't know what -- where you are doing these analysis, you send the mail to me what -- with your analysis, and I'll tell you whether your analysis is correct or not.
Okay. Secondly, just to understand the market share drop from -- you mentioned H1 was 73%, this H1 is 67%. That's almost a 6%.
It's 67.4%. Yes.
Yes, yes. So 6% decline now. What we are seeing is that this decline is quite uniform across ports in terms of your market share. Now initially, we were thinking probably JNPT is what majority of the short lead traffic is sort of getting access to by your competitors. But do you see the same trend ...
JNPT, the drop is 80% to 68%. So the 12% there it dropped.
Yes. So if I look from a Y-o-Y market share point of view, you're right, from almost 80% to 68%. But even in Mundra, it's like 52% to 45%. So is the same trend playing out there also? Is it some other form of competitive intensity that you're seeing? And hence ...
Competitive intensity is not the question here. There is some -- somebody had asked me, is there some negative margin traffic going in the long lead also. There are some negative margin traffic in long lead as well. This investor conference is CONCOR, I don't want to discuss what other fellows are doing business. And if you -- you people you know the balance sheet, you analyze of everyone. You understand very well who is doing what business.
Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that was the last question. I will now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair for closing comments.
Yes, I would like to thank everyone and in particularly the management for taking time out and giving us an opportunity to host the call. Thank you very much, sir.
Thank you, Bhoomika.
Thank you very much. On behalf of IDFC Securities Limited, that conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.