Container Corporation of India Ltd
NSE:CONCOR
Container Corporation of India Ltd
NSE:CONCOR
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Container Corporation of India Limited hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital Advisors Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thanks, Saroja. Good morning, everyone, and a warm welcome to the Q3 '25 earnings call of Container Corporation of India. We have the management being represented by Mr. Sanjay Swarup, Chairman and Managing Director and his entire team. I'll now hand over the floor to Mr. Swarup for his initial remarks, post which we'll open up the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning to all. I'm joined by my directors, Director-Projects, Mr. Ajit Kumar Panda; Director-Domestic, Mr. Azhar Shams; Director-International Marketing and Operations, Mr. Priya Ranjan Parhi; and Director-Finance, Mr. Anurag Kapil. So I just would like to make some opening remarks, and then we can open for questions. I'm happy to inform that there has been a throughput growth of 7.8% in the 9-month period ending on December 31, 2024, in which EXIM registered a growth of 5% and domestic stream registered a growth of 7.8%. This is in conformity with India's international trade in which exports have registered a growth of 1.6% to USD 327.7 billion and imports registered a growth of 5.1%, that is $532.48 billion year-on-year. In Q3, our company registered a growth of 11.6% over the corresponding period of last financial year, which included EXIM growth of 8% and domestic growth of 24.7%. This has been due to -- in spite of supply chain disruptions at international level due to the various geopolitical reasons, of which you are very much familiar.
I am further happy to inform that we gained in EXIM market share also in pan-India basis by 73 basis points. And at Mundra Port, we gained market share by 180 basis points. And at Pipavav port, we gained market share by 278 basis points. This is despite our increasing the rail freight margin also. We did not sacrifice on any margins while gaining the market share. Our rail freight margin increased by 15 basis points year-on-year from 25.61% to 25.76%. Operating margin was flat, same year-on-year, more than 30%. And reasons for the increase in market share is customer centricity that is being observed by all the officials of the company. Customers have reposed faith in our company. And secondly, due to the operational excellence of team CONCOR.
Further, we had operating income growth of 4.23% and PAT growth of 3.6% despite challenges on geopolitical front. We also registered a growth of 11.25% in double stack rigs. Last year, we did 4,142 double stack rigs in the 9 months. And this year, we have done 4,608 double stack rigs. For catering to our demand, which is increasing day by day, we have added infrastructure. In the 9 months, we have commissioned 4 rigs. Now our total fleet stands at 382 as on December 31. We procured 6,868 containers and now our total fleet of containers in domestic stream owned by us is 51,236 containers. Then yesterday, Board of Directors deliberated the various demands, which we are catering and future demand, which is very, very robust. And seeing into the demand, the Board of Directors have decided that we will increase our CapEx by 40%. It was -- our CapEx budget for this financial year was INR 610 crores, out of which already INR 444 crores we have achieved. Now we have revised it upward 40% to INR 855 crores that we will be spending by this year-end.
And company is going for a massive infrastructure creation. I'm happy to inform that by 2028, that is 3 years from now, we will be having 80 terminals. We will be having 500-plus rakes ownership by CONCOR, and we will be having around 70,000 containers fleets. So this will be a massive infrastructure upgradation, which we are doing, keeping in the demand in the market. And a lot of demand is there. We have to meet the demand and the outlook is quite bullish by the company. And I'm also happy to inform that we have declared an interim dividend of INR 4.25 on share of par value of INR 5. So till now, we have declared a total interim dividend of INR 9.50, which is 190% of the par value.
As you are very well aware that the business is in the logistics is deeply impacted by challenging geopolitical scenario. There is international supply chains, which are getting adversely affected, erratic vessel schedules, there are congestion at transshipment ports. All these factors had led to a small dip in the month of December. And now if you see fully recovered in the current quarter, we are experiencing a double-digit growth. And our -- even then in the 9 months, we have registered handsome growth in exports and imports, Exports in RMG, ready-made garments increased by 92%. Export of auto parts increased by 21%, export of food items 22%, paper products 20%, average 27%.
In imports, auto parts increased by 34% and raw [indiscernible] increased by 77%. Rail services, we have started export rebar containers from Tadipatri to JNPT and in which we have already done 442 TEUs of movement. And one more thing is that we have brought Nhava Sheva on double stack for North India by running double stack phase up to MMLP, Varnama, which is near Baroda. That's 400 kilometers short of JNPT. So even DFC has not been commissioned up to JNPT. It will be likely to be commissioned by December 2025. But we have already given the benefits of that to our North India customers, and it's getting a very good response. From December, we have started these services, and we are ramping up very good volume on this.
One more thing is that we have started new rail services at Gangavaram port and which is in Andhra Pradesh. And already, we have done 700 TEUs we have on Gangavaram port. Focus area for the company, again, customer centricity, total logistics solution to customers, business solutions and green and sustainable logistics, which is a key focus area for the company towards fulfilling of our ESG norms. New initiatives will be the growth drivers in the coming months, will be the very big growth drivers. It will be the bulk cement and tank containers. We are procuring 1,000 tank containers. Our bulk cement....
Sorry to interrupt sir, we cannot hear you clearly. There is a lot of disturbance from the line.
Are you able to hear me?
I am able to hear you, but the disturbance is still there.
Yes, lot of disturbance is there.
Ladies and gentlemen, please hold the line, while we check the connection for the management.
We have the management line reconnected back. Over to you, sir.
Hello. I hope you have heard my previous -- whatever I have told about the opening remarks.
Yes, sir. That was audible.
Okay. Now the -- Just I will take one more minute. The new initiatives, which will be the growth driver for the company in the coming months will be bulk cement and tank containers, and we are procuring 1,000 tank containers. And from yesterday, we have started receiving the supply of tank containers from our sister PSU Braithwaite, and they have started supplying tank containers to us. In the coming months, this will be a very big growth driver in the domestic stream, even our customers are eagerly waiting for this.
Then second will be double stack to JNPT that I already told on DFC. Then we are -- we have signed various long-term agreements with our corporate customers and shipping lines, which will further push up our volumes. Then we have rice exports, which is quite robust now. So we are getting very good demand, very good volumes in EXIM and domestic both, and we are on the correct track to achieve the historic 5 million TEUs handling target that we will be having in this financial year. I'm quite confident that we will be able to achieve 5 million TEUs, which will be the landmark for the company. First time, we will be achieving that target.
So these are -- this is all opening remarks from me. Now you can put up questions.
[Operator Instructions]
First question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities.
I have a couple of questions. The first one is on the CapEx. So while you highlighted that we will have 80 terminals, 500 rakes, 70,000 containers. Is it possible to let us know a cumulative CapEx number till FY '28 -- FY '26, '27, '28 if I add all these. And this INR 855 crores revised budget, now we have already spent INR 440 crores and just 2 months are remaining in the year. So are you confident that we will spend this entire amount or something will flow through in FY '26? That is the first question.
Now actually, we -- I'm giving you estimate about this financial year, that will be INR 855 crores. All I can say is for the next 3 years also in the same range, we will be spending. If you remember some 4, 5 years back, we used to spend INR 1,000 crores every year. So figure will be remaining around this number. Exact number is not possible to give at this stage. Secondly, as I told you, INR 444 crores, we have spent only till December 31 and January is already now getting over. So that number, I have already -- not told you. So for this quarter, we will be spending remaining amount. We are quite confident. That is why we have revised the budget. We are quite confident of spending that much amount.
Okay, sir. The second question is essentially on the growth. So what -- given that January is already behind us and you mentioned that in January, you have seen certain growth uptick. So what kind of volume growth can we expect in Q4 in both domestic and EXIM side?
See, at this stage, I would like to -- not like to give any number. But all I can say is the -- both EXIM and domestic. Domestic, of course, has done very well. They are experiencing double-digit growth. But EXIM is also having double-digit growth in the month of January, which I'm quite confident is likely to continue up to March. I would not like to give any number at this stage.
The next question is from the line of Lavina Quadros from Jefferies.
Sir, just wanted to understand 2 or 3 things. Your depreciation is lower by INR 80 crores approximate run rate. INR 25 crores, I understand is because of the depreciation policy change. What about the balance INR 50 crores? Is it a sustainable reduction because of a quarterly basis? Secondly, your realization in EXIM was down about 10%, right? I know you addressed it a little bit, but just a little more color there, please.
Realization because of the -- actually volumes were down that I told you because of supply chain disruptions were there in the international movement because of geopolitical reasons. That is why we could not do very well in EXIM in this Q3. But now everything is back to normal. And in fact, we are getting very good volumes in EXIM. So for depreciation, I will request my ED Finance. He will explain the details.
Yes. You said that depreciation has come down by INR 25 crores. That is correct. This is for the quarter, this reduction is there. But if you see for the period, the impact of the change in the age of our useful life of our wagon, the impact is INR 79 crores. So effectively, our wagon depreciation for the current quarter is INR 12.5 crores. And for the period, it is INR 36.7 crores. So this is the clarification.
So you're effectively saying I should look at the 9-month depreciation trend, not focus so much on the quarter, right, for the trend ahead?
Yes, yes.
Yes.
That's the way to look at it. Okay.
Yes. That is clearly stated in the note also. So if you see the note to the results, that has been clarified, the impact in the quarter as well as in the period.
Understood. And sir, just one more thing. This -- on this realization, would it be fair to say that because volumes were weak, maybe some benefits, some pricing changes were made, which should therefore be corrected as volumes gradually pick up ahead? Would that be fair to say?
No, no. We have not done any pricing change. Normally, whatever prices we declare, we keep it stable. We frequently don't go for pricing change. So pricing change were not done. It was purely as a result of volumes.
Okay. And sir, lastly, if you ex out DFC, right, I mean, if I look at a 3-, 5-year period, what do you think is the volume growth that you could see without DFC organically? And would that be different once JNPT connects, if I look out 3 to 5 years?
Actually, whenever we make our assessment for the forecast, what will be the for 3 to 5 years, we have to take DFC into picture. Without DFC, making a forecast will not be realistic because DFC is coming in 1 year. So realistic forecast can only be made if we take DFC into picture. So with DFC, it's a very good volume growth. Numbers I cannot share right now. But all I can say is that future is very good, and we have been talking to trade. Even running double stack up to Varnama is giving us a very good response and trains are reaching quite quickly and double stacking and evacuation from port is also very fast. So these benefits are going -- we are seeing the benefits. If Nhava Sheva also gets connected on DFC and with the PSA's second terminal also coming up, it will have a capacity of 10 million TEUs. Nhava Sheva can handle 10 million TEUs now. So there is very good growth expected in the coming months.
The next question is from the line of Kaustav Bubna from BMSPL Capital.
So my question was regarding the DFC only. So could you explain to me a little bit about how much of a detail you can providing data points of your knowledge about the market opportunity that's opening up for your company as the DFC becomes operational over the next couple of years?
See, DFC is going to be a game changer. I will just give you some data. Like Mundra port, when it is now connected to DFC and feeder route and our Dadri terminal also is connected to DFC. Now Dadri -- from Dadri to Mundra port, there is a distance of 1,200 kilometers. Road is taking 55 hours to send 1 container from Dadri to Mundra port. Whereas DFC, as a result of DFC, we are running time table trains, which are called Freight Express. We are able to take -- we are able to send the container in 38 hours from Mundra to -- from Dadri to Mundra port. So containers are catching their schedule, and it is very fast. And we have tweaked our rates also. We are giving some commercial benefits to customers. So as a result of operational as well as commercial benefits, there is a sizable shift, almost 11% to 15% shift from road to rail between Dadri and Mundra port. Now when Nhava Sheva also gets connected on DFC, which is approximately 1,500 kilometers from Delhi, that will be a game changer in logistics field.
As per the national rail plan also, which is -- which was done by Indian Railways, they are expecting a rail proficient of almost 40% to 45%, which is at present 18% to 19% at Nhava Sheva. So it is going to be a game changer in the field of logistics. Our company is also going to derive a lot of benefit from that because we have already commissioned 5 MMLPs -- 4 MMLPs on DFC. Fifth one is under commissioning. So all these 5 MMLPs will cater to the growing demand in hinterland. And we will be running timetable trains in the collaboration with DFC and Indian Railways, connecting our MMLPs to Nhava Sheva. So this time -- because this predictability and transit assurance -- this is a very big thing in logistics. Once it is given to customers, then we are expecting a very good shift from road to rail.
The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital Advisors.
Yes, sir. Sir, if you could just share first the originating volumes for the quarter?
Yes. Okay. Originating volume in EXIM was 9,75,243 TEUs, domestic 3,09,551 TEUs, total 12,84,794 TEUs. Sorry, this is handling. And originating is EXIM 5,25,812, domestic 1,17,644 and total 6,43,456 TEUs.
Right. Now sir, this -- just to understand this drop in realizations, while obviously, volumes have been a bit of a challenge, particularly in EXIM, but the realization drop has got to do with some mix change, the distance is falling or exactly what has driven this decline in the realizations because you said there has not been really any drop or any changes in our pricing strategy per se.
The only reason is the drop in volumes. And there is no other reason that comes to my mind because lead is also our lead in EXIM, there's a slightly dip, slight dip in 9 months, but it has come down from 708 kilometers to 704. Only 4-kilometer dip is there. Not much dip is there in the lead. So only the reason is drop in volumes.
Okay. Okay. Sir, in terms of the overall -- as we move ahead in terms of the volume pickup, you said that January has seen an uptick in terms of volume. Now for the full year, we were only looking at a much sharper growth. Will this now be kind of toned down? And what is your outlook, especially from FY '26 perspective that we could look at?
See, FY '25, I will not like to give any further guidance because now only 1 quarter is remaining. And whatever we were expecting because of the geopolitical disturbances, we could not reach that number in EXIM. In domestic, of course, we will be reaching that number. But FY '26, let us wait for 2, 3 months more. I will give a guidance in my next call.
Sure. So sir, I mean, are we seeing an improvement in the overall EXIM cycle? And do you think growth can come back out here? And particularly, the road rail share had gone adverse a little bit. Have we started to now start seeing volumes come back to rail in general?
Yes, yes. We are seeing a very good growth in EXIM also and domestic also. And there is a lot of demand which is there in the market and very robust growth we are expecting. That is why keeping all these things in mind, the Board of Directors had decided that we will increase our CapEx spend now. And I think we will be able to sustain around this number only for the next 2, 3 years. There is a lot of demand in the market.
Sure. Sir, and lastly, may I have the empty running for both EXIM and domestic, please, for the quarter?
Yes. For the quarter you want for the 9-month period?
Anything will do, sir.
Yes, 9-month period, EXIM was INR 89.70 crores and domestic was INR 220.92 crores, total INR 310.61 crores.
The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Wealth.
Sir, can you help us with the market share port-wise, please?
Yes. Market share at JNPT, our market share is 58%. At Mundra Port, it is 38%. At Pipavav, it is 48%.
And is it possible to get the market share for the -- this is 9 months, I presume, right, sir? Or this is for the third quarter?
This is for 9 months period.
9 months only. Okay. And in terms of the port mix, if you could help us with?
Okay. That volume that we are getting from port?
Yes, yes.
Okay. JNPT, we are getting 33%; Mundra port, 38%; Pipavav, 10%; Visakhapatnam, 5.5%; Chennai, 3.8%; Vallarpadam 4.5%, I think that should be enough. Almost 95% I have told.
Understood. Sir, if I put the originating volume along with the revenue number, the segment revenue, I see that the realization for domestic has gone up from INR 56,000 to INR 69,000 quarter-on-quarter. Can you help us understand what has driven this? Is there a significant change in terms of the mix or anything, sir?
Basically, it is because of the reduction in empty running in domestic. We are getting very good circuits and traffic on both the sides. And our domestic team has worked very hard. And one very good initiative that we took was the containers, which were coming -- running empty in empty direction. We have given very competitive rates so that at least we get some money. So all these steps have really done -- given excellent results, and you can see the realization gaining in domestic.
Right. Sir, just one question, if I may. Overall market share, would you have -- what was it in 2Q and what is it in 3Q, sir? Overall market share on the CTO basis, overall trade volume and...
I got it. I got for 9-month period, I can give. Quarterly, I don't have.
9-month period? Yes.
Yes, 9-month period, I can give. Our EXIM market share is 55.28% and domestic, it is 58%, total 56%.
Understood. And just last question, if I may, sir. You mentioned about Varnama, we've started the train from JNPT. Is it possible to get some sense in terms of what is the benefit in terms of, a, the operational side and b, the financial side, what kind of price reduction or cost reduction one can look at?
See, it has both the benefits, operational as well as commercial. I will tell you in brief. Mundra Port -- sorry, Dadri from where we are running the service and Kathuwas. These are the 2 MMLPs in North India from where we are running double stack service to Varnama. From there, if we run on double stack, then the speed, which is because up to DFC -- up to Varnama, it is going on DFC, which is giving a very good speed to us. And almost in Indian Railways, we are getting a speed of around 20 kilometer per hour, whereas from Dadri to Varnama, if we run on DFC, then we get a speed of -- average speed of 65 to 70 kilometers per hour, which is almost 3x speed. So it is taking 1/3 of the time in reaching Varnama. At Varnama, we split into 2, and this double stack is done -- is made single stack of train up to Nhava Sheva for the last 400 kilometers of the journey.
So it is giving us the benefit in terms of transit time, number one. Number two, commercially also, we have not revised our tariff till now. So we are -- we just started in the month of December. So we have not revised our tariff. But because on the upper deck, we have to pay 50% of rail haulage to Indian Railways. So it is making a positive contribution towards my bottom line at present.
Understood. And just sorry, one more question, sir. Is it possible to get a sense as to how much of the JNPT volume is destined for North India? And how much of that is going on rail?
See, at this moment, it will not be possible for me to elaborate on this question, but I can answer you separately afterwards.
The next question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Avendus Spark.
Sir, you mentioned about the rail coefficients in this quarter. And what I see it is it has largely stayed the same, say, over the last few quarters. And when I look at the port volumes, the container volume for that, say, Mundra or JNPT, it is up double digit in this quarter as well. It's up 10% or so. But our originating volumes are flat this quarter. So just trying to understand our originating volumes are flat, but the port volumes are up and the rail coefficients are flat. This either points out to a market share loss, but you're clearly saying that you've gained market share or you kept it flat. So could you help understand the relationship between these 3 data points, sir?
Yes. Actually, you are not comparing the corresponding data. The rail coefficient numbers that I told you that are not for the quarter, that are for the 9 months period. And market share also, I'm telling you for the 9 months period. And there has been a drop in volumes in the third quarter only. If you see 9 months period, our volumes, in fact, have increased. And so yes, that is the reason.
So if I look at -- I mean, obviously, you've not given this quarter numbers, but this quarter, probably there would have been a drop in market share, sir, then?
Not exactly because actually, volumes were -- in this quarter, the volumes were not very good. So everybody has experienced a drop, not only CONCOR. So market share drop is not there in this quarter.
Okay. So there's a rail coefficient drop in this quarter basically?
No, no. Inward at the port has also come down.
Okay. All right, I'll probably try and ask this question later on so that...
Separately -- yes, separately we can discuss in quite detail.
The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.
Over the past 3 quarters, we have been listening to your commentary around drivers of volume growth around the Varnama, double-stacked trains NCR to Varnama. We have been hearing about the transportation of cement and tank containers and the pickup in rice exports. So exactly how much volume in these 3 buckets are you likely to clock or expect to clock? Could you give us some sense in terms of TEUs in these 3 categories would be very useful, say, over the next 1 year?
At this moment, I don't have the numbers with me. I can share with you separately.
[Operator Instructions]
The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Wealth.
Sir, can you help us with the rail coefficient for each of the port?
Already, I have told you in the earlier question but...
Port mix, I think you had said, sir.
I can tell you at JNPT -- rail coefficient you want?
Yes, sir.
Okay. Rail coefficient at JNPT in 9 months period was 15.7%. Mundra Port, it was 24% and Pipavav port, it was 58%.
Understood. And how about the land license fee because I remember last quarter, we had some reversal, that's why the number was lower. This quarter, the number is a little higher Q-o-Q, but it is still lower than what it was last year. So if you could help us what is the number as an expense we can look at as a land license fee expense in the P&L for full year FY '25, sir?
See, land license fees, as I told you, for the terminals that we are operating on railways, it is increasing 7% every year. So -- but we are taking steps. And whatever terminals are not useful to us, we are surrendering. So that is stabilized with the railways. There is no issue on that. So it will be around the same -- in the same direction, it will move, like 7% increase and maybe it may not increase every year also. Like in this, you have seen from INR 287 crores, I think it has gone to INR 262 crores. It has reduced in this financial year.
My Director-Projects will further highlight.
In the quarter, if you see Q-on-Q, December quarter '23, it was INR 71.95 crores. And in the current quarter, we have booked INR 89.42 crores. So -- and the adjustment whatever we did earlier in the current financial year, this quarter, there has not been any adjustment.
So is it fair to say that this is the run rate one could expect and see a 7% escalation?
This is the trajectory in which we are going. We hope to close by INR 350 crores in the current financial year.
Right. But in the next financial year, there will be 7% escalation to that, right?
We are looking at some surrenders, some adjustments. So let us see. Right now, yes, 7% growth will be there in the next financial year. But still, we want to contain that. So we are looking at some other options. So far, they have not materialized. But if they materialize, we may have a little less growth next year, but INR 350 crores for this year, you can say.
Understood. Any update on the TKD? We were looking at switching under Gati Shakti policy?
That so far, that is on discussion stage only. That discussion has not concluded with the Ministry of Railways. So right now, we are paying the LLF, but we have surrendered 60 -- 10% land. So that the surrendered part, we are not paying. So we have contained that expenditure by surrendering partially from 1-4-'24. And we'll -- as we go forward, we'll look at alternatives. It's a dynamic thing. Every year, there will be some small developments in some place. So that way -- and we are trying to contain that expenditure as much as possible.
Understood. And just last one, in terms of the volumes of our total EXIM volume, let's say, if I were to ask on an originating volume basis, how much would currently be on the -- in the regions where the DFC is going to be operating in, like the Northwest pocket?
You mean to Mundra, Pipavav and partially with Nhava Sheva, how much volume we are doing?
No, no. So of the Northwest volumes, which is NCR, Punjab, part of Rajasthan, et cetera, which would potentially be catered by DFC once it is fully operational, how much volume -- what kind of volume we are doing right now out of our total volume? Is it 50%? Is it 60%, 40%, et cetera?
It is around 60%.
60% of our volumes are from these areas. Have I understood right, sir?
55% to 60%, yes.
55% to 60%. Understood. Understood. And if you could comment, sir, in terms of specifically Ludhiana, Punjab market or NCR market, how the demand is shaping up? You gave some numbers with respect to imports and exports commodity-wise. But broadly, are you seeing a pickup in terms of the inquiries, et cetera, from these particular pockets? Or it's still -- things are still weak?
No, no. This is actually -- the demand is already there. A lot of demand is there in imports. A lot of demand is there in exports. That is a continuous exercise like -- and it is actually international trade dynamics when suppose, for example, iron scrap rates, suppose internationally, they increase, then iron scrap imports will come down. after some time -- it is a cyclical thing. After some time, international rates become less, it becomes competitive. So iron scrap imports will increase. So these are the market dynamics all of you guys are very well aware. So at present, that I was telling you in the opening remarks, we are getting very good demand at all the places around the country, we are having the demand in domestic, EXIM and both. So that is a general statement I was making. And across the country, in all the sectors, there is a very robust demand now.
Got it. And just a clarification, the 4Q double-digit growth, are you also meaning on the originating basis or just the handling basis, sir? And was it an aggregate or just the EXIM impact?
Both.
4Q volume growth, you said double digit in your opening remarks, 4Q FY '25?
It is both. Originating as well as handling.
It is both. Okay. Originating as well as handling. On an aggregate basis, right, sir?
Correct.
The next question is from the line of Akash Mehta from Canara HSBC Life.
So basically, I just wanted to check in terms of like if the geopolitical issues kind of get resolved to some extent, what kind of growth we could see in terms of EXIM? And are you seeing anything, I mean, in the near term that is happening on that front? So yes.
Geopolitical, if it is stabilized, then it will be very good because the vessel schedules, which are quite erratic now and sometimes vessels will stop coming. Then after some months, suddenly a lot of vessels will be coming. So all these things, uncertainties will be over, and we will be -- vessels will be running as per schedule. Secondly, for catering to the same volume of traffic, less equipment will be required because now transit time is more. So equipments are also -- more equipment have to be deployed by shipping lines. Then thirdly, there will be a correction in the ocean freight also because now they have to take a longer route. And when the geopolitical issues are resolved, then they don't have to take that long route. So they will charge less. So there will be very good growth in the market. How much growth, it is very difficult to predict. And when it will be resolved, that also I cannot predict right now. it is dependent on so many factors.
Mr. Mehta, does that answer your question?
Yes.
The next question is from the line of Priyankar Biswas from BNP Paribas.
Most of the questions are answered. Just one follow-up question here. So since we were discussing Gati Shakti in that, so if some of the key terminals were to shift to Gati Shakti, so can you just quantify for us like how much can be the LLF-linked savings, especially particularly TKD was there? That's all I have to ask.
See, at present, our management has taken a decision that we will not be going for bid option because there is a lot of uncertainty involved in if we -- if brownfield terminals are migrating to Gati Shakti, then there is a big element of uncertainty. So we have decided that we will not be using that facility provided by Indian Railways. But for greenfield projects, we are going for Gati Shakti only.
Sir, what's the competitive intensity in these Gati Shakti bids? I mean, what sort of TSC shares people are typically bidding, if you can throw -- shed some light?
What is your question? What is the TSC? Can you please repeat that?
What is the TSC share that people are bidding in these Gati Shakti projects, if you can share some light? Like is the bid...
That depends on the terminal where they are getting traffic. I cannot speculate how much they will be bidding. That is not within my ambit of discussion.
The next question is from the line of Prateek Maheshwari from Tree Line Advisor.
Actually, just I had 2 questions, but I have another one. Just to clarify. You said we are not going with the Gati Shakti bidding process for Tughlakabad and the other terminals which we have on the railway line. Is that right?
Yes, brownfield projects.
For the brownfield projects. I see. Okay. And also like on the EBITDA, like if I just look at the EBITDA level for this quarter, right, if I understand correctly, if I look at EBITDA per tonne, excluding the other income, it looks like it's dropped by almost 18% to 19% year-over-year. So I'm just trying to understand what has happened because I understand lead distances have not come down, pricing has not come down. So any light on that?
What number are you talking? EBITDA per tonne?
Yes. Just looking at our EBITDA per tonne overall.
EBITDA per TEU or EBITDA per tonne?
Sorry, sir, EBITDA per TEU. My bad, sorry.
EBITDA per TEU you have calculated. Okay.
Yes.
You have taken originating TEU or the handling TEU?
Handling volumes.
No, you should take originating volume actually. That is a clear indicator because handling, if we do double stack, then the same containers handle 2x. So I will request you to take the originating numbers, then it will not be so much drop.
I see. And just one final question, if I may. So on the depreciation front, right, I think this was already asked earlier. But just to clarify, I think if I understand correctly, depreciation this quarter was about INR 86 crores. And I think last quarter, it was about INR 166 crores. And I understand that INR 25 crore drop can be explained by that wagon life extension thing, but I didn't really understand the explanation that you gave earlier. So if you could please clarify again, that would be really helpful.
Yes. If you see what we are requesting is that in this financial year, this calculation of life of wagon has been -- there was some anomaly and the anomaly has been removed. And it has been brought in line with the actual life of the wagons that are being used in the railway system. So now you should see the EBIT -- the depreciation figure for the 9-month period, not the quarter period because once the adjustment has been done for the full year, it was -- the booking may look a little more in first 2 quarters and less in third quarter. But if you add all the 3, then the correct picture emerges. There will be a drop in the depreciation figure for the 9-month period. So you kindly see the 9-month period.
The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial.
Sir, just to continue on the depreciation part. So if I look at 9-month period, it is INR 408 crores. So going forward, quarterly number should be INR 130 crores, INR 140 crores per quarter?
Yes, like that, yes.
Okay. Okay. And sir, secondly, if we look at the volume growth in domestic, in terms of handling volume, it is 25% up, while in terms of originating volume is 7% growth. So there is a sharp increase in the handling sector on the domestic side. So what could be the reason for that or just a sharp variation in the growth numbers?
My director -- I will request my Director-Domestic to explain this.
Actually, in handling, that some of the container volume we have taken From our PFT. Whatever PFT rates we are handling, we have taken those volume also. So that is the reason that the handling figure has gone up very sharply and the originating is only TEU volume whatever we are doing. That is the main reason. You know that at Paradip, we are handling around 60 -- 50 to 60 rakes per railway wagon. And at other PFTs also, we are handling 1 or 2 rakes. So that rakes we charge higher access charges and then handling charges also. So we have been adding those volumes. So that is the reason basically.
So for Q4, the growth -- if you look at the originating the handling growth in Q3 is 25%. So if we assume that a similar growth comes in Q4, so the difference will persist in Q4 on the originating side or it will minimize?
No, no. Actually, originating, we are going to increase around 7% what has been there, but keeping in the volume and all those things, originating volume will increase. Now the handling volume will depend that how many rakes we handle in our PFT location. That is there. In this quarter, the number has been quite good. So that's why our handling number has gone up to 24%. It may come down also. And it may increase also keeping on this -- keeping in the numbers, the railway rakes we handle at like Paradip and then Kathuwas and all those PFT locations.
Okay. Okay, sir. So lastly, if you want to look at the Q4 numbers, so in terms of volumes, so if we're guiding for a 10% growth in terms of -- double-digit growth in terms of EXIM, so it should be both in EXIM originating and handling as well, assuming a similar handling factor would be there?
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
And similar could be the case for domestic as well?
Yes, yes. Actually, domestic in originating and handling, both will be double digit only. We are quite confident on that.
The next question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities.
Sir, just one follow-up question, if I may. Now since this particular quarter's numbers in segment have been adjusted with the depreciation, is it possible to give the unadjusted EBIT number segment-wise for this quarter?
But why do we want those numbers? These are the actual numbers which have been approved by CAG auditor. Why do you want...
Just for comparison purpose because these numbers are not comparable with the earlier numbers.
But we give only one set of numbers. We don't give 2 sets of numbers.
The 9-month period is there. No?
We give only one set of numbers and which have been approved by our auditors. We don't give 2, 3 sets of numbers for your analysis, sorry.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Sandesh Shetty from HSBC.
All my questions have been answered.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital.
Yes, sir. Sir, just one data point that I just wanted was the lead distance for the domestic side, if I could get that, please?
Yes. For domestic for 9-month period, lead distance was 1,317 kilometers.
Okay. Okay. Great, sir. I think there's no more questions in the queue. So we can end the call. Thank you so much to all the participants and the management for giving us an opportunity to host the call. Wishing you all the very best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Bhoomika.
On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.