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Ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome, and thank you for joining Xref's Investor Update Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the call over to your first speaker, Lee-Martin Seymour, Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead, sir.
Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us this morning. I'm sure you're all dialing in from your respective homes. So thank you for making the time. I do have Timothy Griffiths, CTO and Co-Founder on the line, in the background as well...
Good morning, everybody.
Good morning, Tim. As well as our lovely CFO, James Solomons.
Hi, everyone.
So I'll begin to sort of set the scene or the status quo at the moment. Obviously, I never imagined that I would ever have the word COVID in the title of a release from Xref, but here we are.So over the last quarter, it has not just been COVID that we've been dealing with. In December, Australia was a light. And then our seasonal change hit with Christmas. And as you all know, 80% of our revenue comes from Australia, and we do not get going until the 27th of Jan once the kids and everybody is back full swing. So we really do look forward to February and particularly March. And if you have a look at our March figures, historically, we've always done -- records achieved in the month of March. And just to remind everybody that Q3 and Q4 are our busiest periods for both credit top-ups with our clients and also new business sales. So the month of March for all of us has been quite disruptive. However, we were very delighted on how we've navigated our way on all aspects during the difficult times through fires, floods, seasonal impacts and now the spread of coronavirus. So our revenue for the quarter or our usage -- if you know our business, you know that our credit usage is revenue, it was $2.2 million. Our sales were $2.47 million. In fact, $0.5 million worth of sales were generated in the last half of March. And our cash receipts were totaled at about $2.4 million. And our operating expenses were $4.2 million for the quarter. Good news, and I'll speak about it a little bit later, but our cash outflow estimates has been revised. You'll note in the quarterly, we listed a $3.4 million revision on the top of our previous estimate of $4.6 million for Q4. And you'll note from the 4C this morning that that is now at $3 million for Q4 expense outflow. So in terms of sales for Q3, we brought on some significant clients. They're detailed in the quarterly update. I think, hopefully, everybody on the call and our other shareholders that aren't on the call are encouraged by the fact that the management and executive team at Xref wanted to get this news out very quickly. So we were out with our news on the 2nd of April. I don't think anyone wants to endure any delay in results at the moment. And then our 4C was completed and sent out to the ASX this morning. So obviously, that goes some way to show our shareholders that we are committed to keep everybody informed of the good news and the impact.Now we have obviously had a very good sales considering all factors. We've had a very good sales result. But in fact, our credit usage has wowed us in some respects. So the market out there speaks an awful lot about recruitment at the moment and the lowering of recruitment and the fact that we are seeing high unemployment rates and companies simply freezing their recruitment. However, that's not been the same story at Xref. Before we ended the quarter, we did a huge exercise on looking at the mix of our clients, and we've been able to share that with you in terms of the impact of COVID-19 on our revenue, i.e., our credits used. So for the last 4 years, Xref has been focused on the government health, not-for-profit, aged care and education sectors. And it has, over the last 3 weeks, proved dividends to us, and that is explained within that quarterly release. So before we were hit on March 1 by the first death in Australia in COVID, 65% of our usage was contributed by nonessential businesses. By nonessential, as we've explained in the release, we mean airlines, hotels, travel organizations, retail, et cetera. So we've divided our whole clients at -- of nearly 8,000 users by essential and nonessential and looked at the differences in credit usage over the month of March, historically. And what that's shown is a change of the guard. So as I said, nonessential services would contribute about 65% of our revenue every week, and now that has completely flipped, and 60% of our revenue is now contributed by essential services. So it's -- hindsight, it's a great thing, but I think our decision to focus on the trust economy and areas of -- or sectors around the world that are now deemed essential services is paying off. The combined effect of nonessential declining and essential services growing is that by the last week of March, which we saw a combined drop in usage of about 30%. However, last week, that went back up, and we saw a 16% drop in usage of credits. Now for the management team and the wider team at Xref, that's delightful considering that every single recruiter that we have using our platform has decided to move home and learn how to recruit from the confines of their own desk at home, and that's been probably one of the biggest human migrations of all time. So for us to be used in the second, third week and fourth week of March, unprecedented rate is obviously demonstrating the worth of the Xref platform and the fact that we are not a nice to have and that we are providing value to the front line with many of our clients, including clients such as Alfred Health, Mercy Health, Babylon in North America, et cetera. So there's many frontline services that have increased their usage of Xref tenfold. And in fact, we've scaled without any additional operational support. Now highlight this quarter was the performance of RapidID. Obviously, a fledgling business that we bought in July 2019, and their sales increased by over 300% year-on-year. And in fact, their burn rate for the quarter was $60,000. So albeit very -- still very small, they are really packing a punch, and their growth rate despite what we've gone through is a great thing to report.Now moving on to our monthly cash burn or at least our gross expenses. As I've already mentioned, we've reset our forecast for Q4 at $3 million. However, you'll see a note on the 4C that we are currently exploring our eligibility for the Job Keeper Subsidy, which would then lower that $3 million by another to $400,000 to $2.6 million. And when you mix that with the fact that we're in the highest sales quarter and that we've just delivered a $2.4 million, you can see that we've made a grand effort of reducing our overall expenses.Now how have we done that? We focused on reducing our event costs. For instance, we are very known around the world to hold out Xref Discovery Sessions. They are now online events. In fact, we held one, and Tim hosted it on Friday, and we had over 250 people on that webinar on that Xref Discovery Session, which is tremendous. With travel, obviously, there's some savings within our travel at the moment. Development costs on extra features and bands and integrations, office leases, there's some savings there. And then our head count has reduced from 98 to 67 people. And that isn't just within the month of March, but we have been consolidating and restructuring since December.So with that, our Q2 expenses were $5.3 million. So Q3 was 21% down on that. And then our expenses having been reset for Q4 have been 43% reduced based on Q2. And if we brought in the government subsidy on Job Keepers at $400,000, and we delivered an expense for Q4 at $2.6 million, that would be a 51% drop on our expenses for Q2.So I think what you're seeing with Xref is a management team, an executive team and the Board that is making hard decisions, that is preparing for the worst and making absolutely sure that we preserve cash. We are still, as it says, in the 4C, we are still exploring ways to do that even further.So onwards from there, in terms of sales and marketing and the effects of COVID on our business. We are known to -- obviously, we're an online business. And so we can support, sell, train and build relationships with our clients, 100% online. So as odd as it may sound, the market at the moment is playing completely into our hands. No longer are clients asking us to fly to them or have a coffee with them or go to their offices. They are very eager for us to have those meetings on Zoom.Now in terms of the function that our clients perform, they are now needing to remotely recruit, which puts a whole new focus on how they deliver those services to their respective businesses. They can't any longer meet the candidate that they need to hire. They're unable to check their ID in person. And they have no time because of the level of recruitment, especially in the frontline, they have no time to manually check the candidate's references. So we can do demos online. We can set people up within seconds. With Xref Lite, people can create their account, take their first reference, get to know the platform, do the online training, and then get out of their credit cards to be able to buy more credits.Now on top of that, it's made a little bit easier by the fact that we released our new website at the beginning of March. Thankfully, we made that decision early because it is a website that's centered around the conversion of clients. We are seeing record numbers of hits on keywords such online referencing and reference automation. And our lead flow is superb in terms of its quality. We are probably seeing less leads, but the quality is far higher because people are no longer kicking our tires. The shoppers in the market that are eager to explore online references have already made the decision that they need to do this, and we're leveraging that. Some great news out of the quarter was that we entered the G2 quadrant as leaders and were awarded a number of badges that you can see on the release. Now most of you will not know the G2 business, but in North America and around the world, if you are buying technology, you use a platform like G2 to qualify the performance and references for that platform. You cannot give a reference on G2 for Xref unless G2 validate you as a user. So the work that we've done on that platform is paying us dividends in terms of lead flow that's coming from the U.S. In terms of channel, you'll see from the release that we integrated with LinkedIn Talent Hub in March and last Thursday, LinkedIn held their global conference completely online with a virtual forum and virtual breakout sessions. They held it through APAC, the EU and then North America. And if you're unaware of the size of LinkedIn, they have 650 million members across 200 countries. We were featured within that conference as it went through the planet on Thursday as one of the integrated partners. So I could imagine that's going to be a great journey for us. And alongside that, we released our Greenhouse Integration. So Xref has been working from home for the last 2 weeks. Productivity is effortless. I've been -- I think up until now, I don't think the shareholder market has put much weight on the quality or the priority of culture and employee engagement within the business. But I think in times like this, it is essential that the culture that you've built within the business shines through and people pull together. And I did mention it in my quote on the quarterly that we have, as a management team, been blown away by the response of our staff, how they've moved home, they change their personal situation, their career situation and the way that people are pulling through to make the best of the situation. And our culture is now -- and our people are now more important than ever as we move through the pandemic. So on from there, I would like to open up the floor with some questions. I'm sure we're all busy and want to keep this nicely succinct this morning.
[Operator Instructions] We have the first question from George.
Hello?
George, can you hear us, from Mathews Capital?
It's not George, it's Phil Mathews speaking. What do you think the breakeven potential is, Lee, going forward from here? Just have -- bearing in mind the cash position and everything like -- what -- how do you get to see that?
Okay. It's a great question, but you're probably not going to get the answer you like. So look, I think as you all are aware that Tim and I and the management team have been focused on where our breakeven is going to be for a long time now. And we -- without the uncertainty in the current market, we were certainly heading for a Q4 breakeven. I think if the question was put to any company around the world right now, there's a certain level of uncertainty that prevents you from clearly pinpointing when that's going to be. But I think rather than looking at where it's going to be, I think the most important thing is to look at what we're doing as a business to bring about breakeven and come out of this downturn as strong as we can be. So there's a balance. I think the opportunity that exists ahead is that once we turn a corner, and we're certainly not at the top of the curve right now. Once we turn a corner, and we're out of the pandemic, then we start to see our nonessential businesses start to recruit again, I think we're going to see the market flourish. And we certainly want to be in a prime position to make full use of that opportunity. So what we're not doing is bringing our head count down to the point that we can't serve our clients as we have always done and the opportunity to sell as much as we have. So I think that right now the question isn't necessarily about growth rate or cash breakeven. The question is about survival and the ability for our business to look fit and well as we turn the corner, so that we can make full use of the opportunity that the market is going to provide. Whether that is in the next 90 days in -- by September or December, the Xref team are running 3 or 4 different budgets right now for worst and best case scenarios. And we are very in tune with what decisions we need to make at what milestones. We're closely, closely on a daily, if not hourly basis, monitoring the credit usage and who in terms of essential, nonessential services are using those credits. And we have milestone actions agreed by the Board and the exec team so that we can navigate this issue. But I think in terms of breakeven, as soon as we have a very clear line of sight, I think there's nothing we would want more than let our shareholders know that we reach that point. In fact, none of us know how Q4 is going to work out, but we do have a large collection of clients that have their annual top-ups within the month of June. And by all accounts, everything is still on our side, looking good in terms of the level of top-ups that we can renew within the fourth quarter. So it's probably no answer to your question on breakeven, but it's certainly probably put into perspective where our focus is right now.
But just what do you think about -- when you made the cost cut plan, how do you see that impacting the business there? So how do you see it playing [ with the rest of the ] cost?
Look, it's much easier to -- our salaries and wages were always 65% of our overall costs. And so in the first instance, it's very easy to sort of take down events and spend less on development. We were running a development team extension out of Poland for our integrations. We've pulled that back. We've decided to push off some of the sort of new product that we were looking to build and reduced our development capabilities, and that shines through into our head count. There are roles we were carrying sort of nice to have roles like our localization manager. It's a great example. Somebody that looked after all of our languages around the world and our regionalization of our platform in certain countries. And so in peak markets, they're great to have, and it makes us even more robust. But at the times like this, even the business can't afford luxuries such as regionalization and localization projects. And then when you look at our channel, we've now got 28 channel partners, and we've done a remarkable job of integrating to those people over the last 4 years. So in terms of the team that have been driving the integration themselves, we've been able to dissemble that resource. So in terms of impact of the business, our sales team are now over 45% of our business. And I can imagine considering the amount of reviews that you see on Google and G2 and how a high percentage of our companies are now using us more than they ever have. I think that may be asked around because our businesses, our clients are being serviced the same as they have always been, and we're known for servicing our clients very well. And in terms of our current pipeline of new business, we have full complement of salespeople around the world to be able to close and nurture those sales cycles.
So you don't see much impact from it? I mean you think the business is going to be as good -- almost as good as it was at the lower cost base? Is that...
Yes, I think many businesses right now are going through what it is to work from home. We've always used the best technology to do so and we've always been able to work remotely. There are businesses out there right now that are still on VPNs and are unable to work from home. They just haven't invested in the technology over the years. I think what I'm seeing from the Xref team right now is we've got a lower head count, but we're far more productive. And in the future, I think the whole team is questioning the viability of retaining offices around the world and whether it is a benefit to continue working in this way. So yes, no real change. And I think we're doing more with less.
What about the LinkedIn potential? Could you go through that, how well it could be?
At the moment, LinkedIn has released their Talent Hub to North America, Australia and Europe and small and mid-tier businesses. The potential is pretty clear. They have one of the largest databases in the world in terms of recruiters, HR and current acquisition specialists. Those people right now are probably using expensive and cumbersome ATS platforms, applicant tracking systems, to do recruitment. Most LinkedIn users, if they're recruiters or HR or talent acquisition, they will use LinkedIn. I've never met any professional within recruitment that does not use LinkedIn. So the attraction is that rather than taking a candidate out of LinkedIn and putting them on a separate platform, they now have the ability just to feed them straight across to the LinkedIn Talent Hub and manage their incoming talent in one place. And now with the marketplace on LinkedIn Talent Hub, you can now seamlessly create an Xref account, integrate it into LinkedIn and start referencing your candidates. We are not white-labeled into LinkedIn. We are full branded. You get to know the Xref platform within LinkedIn, and you can either communicate with our sales teams or use your credit card to buy additional credits. So I think that in this market, people are looking to consolidate the amount of platforms they're using, but they still have to do the same job as they did before. So I think LinkedIn's timing is brilliant, and they're certainly disrupting the market, and it's great for Xref to be welcomed along on that journey.
Phil, it's Tim here. I think the other note on this is that this isn't just linked to the LinkedIn in Australia or the APAC region, this is a global launch. So essentially, Xref is available right away across North America and across Europe as part of their talent platform. So for us, it's actually a great opportunity to get the name out there further and to leverage a channel that realistically has the depth and global footprint greater than any other ATS that's out in the marketplace at the moment.
What do you think it could be in 6 months' time? Is that -- do you have a feel for it on what it could be?
It's very early, Phil. I think we tend not to give too much detail on integrations until they're commercially successful. You noted that most of the time when we released an integration, it already has a client that provides the testimony on it. And I think the first step is to get clients to provide testimonials on the LinkedIn Talent Hub and the use of Xref within it. And I can imagine within the quarter, we'll be announcing more news in and around that integration. But to forecast, we are unable to do so.
I think the other thing, for, is that if you ask LinkedIn the same thing, where do they think they'll be in 6 months, I think no one really knows what's going on in the next 6 months globally. We're very LinkedIn with that -- we're very connected with LinkedIn and with our other partners. And realistically, at the moment, it's looking okay. But everyone -- there's nobody giving what it'll be like in 6 months because no one actually knows what it looks like in 6 months. So as we've been saying, let's make sure that we have the ability to support our customers, continue the business, preserve the cash, grow where we can grow and just make sure that, ultimately, when we're out the other side, have the ability to leapfrog and take advantage of the -- the recruiting will happen once we're through the other side of this crisis.
Yes. Phil, thanks for the questions, but with time in mind, let's open the floor up to anybody else that has any questions for us this morning.
Next, we have [ Jason ].
So just to confirm here, at your -- at your first half results, you sort of reiterated your goal of reaching cash flow breakeven by the end of this financial year. So now you're not really providing any sort of exact timing on this or this goal being achieved now?
Well, I think it would be foolish for any company to predict the future. The governments around the world can't do it, why do you think Xref can? Look, I think I hold off any breakeven conversations, but watch the journey. I think if -- the only thing that anybody can ask from us right now is to preserve cash to survive the pandemic and to be ready for when the market really does start to accelerate out. And I think if -- look, do your own math, right? If we bought our cash outflow to $2.6 million, and we're in the busiest quarter of the year. We've just done $2.4 million with January and March being affected by COVID. So I think that -- look, we're doing everything we can to make sure that we bring in a sales figure and cash collections. We already have -- to give you an idea, if we did $2.6 million outflow with the government subsidy. Then to breakeven, then we would have to exceed that certainly in June. So we already have $700,000 in current debtors. So that gives us a nice foundation to our cash collections within Q4. We collect within 16 days and have never had an issue with collecting. So we have $700,000 out here with debtors at the moment. So within the quarter, to get close to over 0 burn, for instance, we would have to find $1.9 million worth of sales, and we've just found $2.47 million in the -- $2.4 million. We just collected $2.4 million in what was a very tricky quarter, but also that $2.4 million echoed the sales that we did in December. And in December with the fires, was quite -- was a pretty bad month for everybody. So I would do your own math on that. But at the moment, I don't think anybody can predict anything that's going on. I think if we -- the beauty with the management team here is that half of our Board is sat: one is sat in Spain, one is sat in London. And we also have a tremendous amount of links in the U.S. and North -- in Canada. So we have a daily conversation going on with what is going on with those clients over there. I am absolutely hoping that Australia does not experience anything that the U.S., the U.K. have done today and not just in terms of the COVID crisis, but the effect on the economy and unemployment, et cetera. So look, I think the benefit is now that we've done so much work over the last 4 years in the essential services, and 80% of our revenue is in Australia. Look, I think we've got every opportunity to bring home a strong quarter, and we're doing everything we can to make sure that we create the balance between head count and performance. I think we're doing an excellent job.
Yes. It's difficult times. I just also wanted to get a bit of an idea of the main type of hire you're currently facilitating. Just to get that sort of -- is it -- are these medical professionals? Or what is the sort of...
Okay. So we -- the main contributor to the positivity that -- within the Xref team right now is the fact that over the last few weeks, we have begun projects through clients to hire to reference delivery drivers of toilet rolls, shelf stackers in large supermarket, additional health workers within aged care facilities and hospitals. And also we've seen the announcement of the amount of recruits that are required by Service New South Wales or Centrelink customer service department. And so we're involved in many of those initiatives. In fact, the Service New South Wales or as they now call it Department of Customer service is one of our clients. So we are getting involved in those areas. And that -- and I can tell you right now everybody within Xref is tremendously busy, making sure that we are supporting, training new users and servicing requests of those essential business. So we are seeing it firsthand. And that is, on one side, very difficult to see. But on the other hand, it is incredible that we've been able to add value to what is going on right now.
Okay. And also...
Sorry, you're breaking out, Jason.
Sorry about that. Have you seen any sort of uplifts...
We lost him. Yes, we lost him.
We'll move to the next question. Next question, we have [ Ricky. ]
It's [ Ricky ] here from Health Capital. Yes. I'm going to stay clear of asking any more questions at COVID-19. I think the situation is definitely unpredictable, and I mean opportunities like this is a good chance for you to consolidate and come out stronger at the end of it, which I'm all very positive about that.I want to just ask more questions that are future oriented and particularly about LinkedIn Talent Hub, you've already spoken about it a little bit more. I want even more, if you can provide some more information, like, I am after the details. If you can tell me about sort of the terms, the deal structure with LinkedIn, how that integration was and how you're getting paid and some of the contents around it? Have you seen any numbers that are related to the situation with that integration? Yes, so anything you can provide, right?
So firstly, Jason, if you had another question, and you're still listening, shoot that through to me or call my mobile after this.Secondly, really well put, Ricky. Thank you for not asking another COVID question, but the way you framed it was perfect. And thirdly, LinkedIn -- look, within -- with the LinkedIn integration, it's not a deal. There's no commercials. LinkedIn built the LinkedIn Talent Hub to service the requirement by small to medium businesses to bring in ATS within their current LinkedIn platforms. However, LinkedIn calls small to medium businesses in the U.S. They're not like they are here, they're substantial businesses, bearing in mind that a large business in Australia is 5,000 to 6,000 people. That would be a mid-tier in the U.S. And in fact, the average size of companies in the U.S. is about between some 16,000 staff. So in terms of LinkedIn, we -- there is no commercial agreement. They do not earn money out of people using Xref. We have full visibility control and connection with the clients that switch us on within their ATS platform in LinkedIn. And when LinkedIn started to build a marketplace, they went out for businesses that could service on a global scale. So local providers that only provide services in their region are very difficult to use, and they need businesses that could speak a global language. Now over the last 4 years, again, hindsight is a great thing, and we made the right decision that Xref is a global platform. It is ISO 27001. It has the highest level of data security. We can service 24/7 support. We are fully multilingual within the platform. And wherever you are in the planet, you can choose to hold your data wherever you are, whether that's the U.S., Canada, in Europe or AU, you can keep your data wherever you so wish. In fact, if you go today and try and set up an Xref account on xref.com, create an account, it asks you where you want your data and what language is your default. So I think we were selected purely because of our pedigree and the work that we have done to be able to be used by anybody on the planet. And a very long time ago, Tim and I decided that anybody can use Xref in whatever platform they have, and there should never be a barrier to collecting references on a candidate. So within seconds, and it's a beautiful integration built by one of our developers in Xref, where you can literally go to the Talent Hub, find Xref as a reference provider, create an account, integrate it back in and take your first reference for free and then top-up from there. So look, it speaks for itself. If you know any recruiters, ask them about LinkedIn, ask them about Talent Hub, ask them about the fact that this is very disruptive in the market. And then if you can, google Talent Hub -- LinkedIn Talent Hub, go to the marketing materials there, scroll down, look at the marketplace and look at who's in there, and you'll see Xref. You can go to our website, everything is live now on our website in terms of the Talent Hub integration and do a bit of homework on it. But the conference last week was spectacular, gave us a really good forum to talk to those companies that are interested in using it. And it's very early days in terms of the sales cycle, but to be able to be asked to be on that platform and be contained within the launch of it has been tremendous.
Excellent. So what I'm gathering here is the pricing structure in terms of how you get paid for your sales or credit and then usage later after the receipt. That's all staying?
It's all staying. Yes.
Yes. Okay. Then I've got some questions around content, around LinkedIn Talent Hub. I know that's a big push for them at the moment and obviously some there interested you to grow as well as all the other integrations. But have they given you any sort of heads up on what kind of numbers that they're seeing in those 3 channels you mentioned, North America, Australia and Europe? And how much of that do you expect to come in to your sheet?
Look, LinkedIn are a giant U.S. software business. For us to be welcomed in, dealt with and featured on that platform is a complete privilege for us. I think that they haven't released themselves the uptake of Talent Hub. It's still too early for them. Until they release that information, then we wouldn't be able to. In fact, the LinkedIn release that we sent out to the market was validated by LinkedIn and marked up by their legal team, and the quote was provided by one of their senior VP. So just sort of keeping in mind that LinkedIn are a huge machine and to deal with them is not only a privilege, but it comes with some guidelines. And if they haven't produced any figures on the uptake of Talent Hub and the amount of small and medium companies that they have in the U.S. already, then we wouldn't have them.
That makes sense. And would you say LinkedIn Talent Hub is currently going to be -- well, looking out, it's going to be your key growth engine? And if so do you have any other growth engines in mind? I'm looking beyond COVID-19. Once business is resuming back to normal, where do you expect the growth to come from for [ shareholders? ]
So we do not have any, per se, for want of a better term, fat cats. We don't have one big client. We don't have one big integration. I think for us, our integrations that are doing particularly well are things like SmartRecruiters, JobAdder, Bullhorn. We're just about to complete and go to market with our PageUp integration. And we just launched Greenhouse.I think, look, I think the beauty of how we're performing over the last 3 weeks is testament to the fact that we've always spread our bet. We've always been able to garner clients term channel or direct or from Xref Lite from 1 region to another -- so from 1 sector to another, we've got -- we're not sector specific, we're not region specific, we're not channel specific. We are 100% agnostic of where we bring our business, and we have the platform that services anybody who wants to take a reference because everybody on the planet can be, at one time, an Xref customer, an Xref candidate or an Xref referee. And so I think the beauty is that we don't have a single contributor to revenue. We are completely spread, and that's been paying off over the last few weeks.
There are currently no questions in queue. [Operator Instructions] We have a follow-up question from Phil.
Just wondering, could you rank those channel partners as of what you think that could be? Quote the best one which is followed? And what are the others? Just give us some sort of sense to how you feel about them? And secondly, could you talk about the RapidID future in the next 12 months and how that's been taken off?
Okay, 2 great questions. I'm sorry, Phil, I'm not going to be able to answer the first question, how you want it to be asked. But what I will say is if we are in North America and we are dealing with recruitment businesses, our Bullhorn integration is spectacular. If we want to look at enterprise market within North America, our SmartRecruiters integration is superb. If we want to deliver services within the Nordic region, then our integrations with the specific Talentech ATS in Norway are great. And then if we want to deliver services to the education university sector within North America, then we're going to be partnering up with PageUp to do that. And then in Australia, we really, really enjoy our relationship with JobAdder because they've gotten a fantastic name within the market here. So really, depends on the sector and the region, depends on how we prioritize those channel partners.If we want the likes of Qantas, nbn or Texas A&M, then we're talking about very high level ATS platforms like Workday and maybe iCIMS or Taleo. So it really goes back to I think the foresight of Xref to be able to make sure we can deliver services in any region, in any sector and any horizontal market and vertical market.So really, it depends on where and who and what level is dependent on what ATS is best performing. But I think in a market like this, we can be really, really agile in terms of putting pressure on one integration rather than another.Now the second question. Can you ask it again, just to remind everybody, including myself?
Yes, it's about the RapidID. What's -- how do you see the path going forward? And also who takes those products out? If I take your reference, they are taking RapidID as well.
Yes. Great question. Okay. So I'm going to include a few things in this answer. So in 2010, when Tim and I were sat in a cafe with our head in our hands going, why is the recruitment industry globally taking references like this? And we automated it by building a platform, we were early. And the whole industry thought we were off our heads, and we spent 5 years educating those clients but the way that they were taking references was just simply wrong, and that it needed reinvention. And we were right, and we've been proved right time to time again. And we took a huge personal and career risk in doing so. Now we were early with RapidID. We've always been able to answer the question, is the -- has the candidate been where they said they've been? Have they done what they've said they've done? But we were never able to answer the question, are they actually who they say they are? So we bought RapidID. We've been looking around for a while. We'd be contemplating building the tech ourselves. We met Ash Hoey in July, and his platform gave us the answer, whereas we could biometrically ascertain the idea of a human over their smartphone within seconds and integrate that seamlessly into our platform, which we have done, and we already have clients that benefit from those ID services. However, again, 10 years later, we were again very early, and we know that ID services is becoming even more important. With COVID, as I said in the beginning, people are looking to validate identity of candidates because they are no longer able to meet them. And so they are hunting ways that they can -- especially in health services and essential services even delivery drivers of toilet rolls and shelf packers in retail stores, we have to validate that they are, in fact, who they said they are. So the question has arisen. We're doing a tremendous amount of work with Uber in Asia Pac to make sure that we're validating who our drivers are. And as that focus on validity of ID becomes ever more important, especially in today's market, RapidID has got a bigger part to play. And as you can see by the figures, the growth rate is superb, but they are also doing an awful lot of work within the consumer market. Anywhere you need to validate ID online, whether that's a telco, an online bank, a betting platform, anywhere that you have to validate you are who you say you are, to open up an account with financial institution or a betting platform, then they are doing a great job in there. And I think they compete really well. And so look, I think they're still very early. And I think they're still trying to sort of ascertain the key sectors, but the growth rate is great. David Haines, who was our first employee in 2013 for Xref now leads, together with the founder, Ash Hoey, the RapidID business. So it's in great hands. They are playing both sides of the fence, the recruitment market as well as the online ID services market. They've just been contained into a few conferences that have benefited them really well. And I think I'd urge you to have a look at the document verification service website, have a look at RapidID's website. And I think what you can probably assume is that more information will come out of that RapidID as we close out the financial year.
And just on -- like how many clients take both products?
In terms of Xref? Look, within Xref, you can switch on RapidID, but you probably -- you have the choice of taking a reference and an ID check together or just an ID check or just a reference or once you've got the references, you can have an ID check. So we keep it really, really quite flexible, and it's exactly the same as we've built the CVCheck integration. And I recently showed our team at Xref a sea of green because we have a particular client of ours that integrated CVCheck and Xref's together. They consume CVChecks from within the Xref platform. They took a police check on every candidate they are interviewing. And because I call it sea of green, we've got a whole lot of green references and a whole lot of green police checks. And we've absolutely wowed the client in how we do that. So the integration of CVCheck and RapidID within the Xref platform is very simple and a bloody great integration. So we can see big things coming on both of those.
We have Mark from The Hopkins Group.
My question is related to RapidID. So that sort of largely been answered, but I just have a question. In regards to your movement of your staff online, do you imagine that's going to stay to, I guess, once the restriction stop. And I guess from your client's point of view, do you also see deal movements online being moved through the situation.
I've got to say I missed -- I don't know about anybody else, but I missed a lot of that. Could you perhaps get closer to the phone and -- yes, I couldn't hear that either, sorry.
Sorry. Is that better?
Much better. Much better.
I'll do it on the phone, I was on bluetooth. So my question is largely related to the RapidID, which you -- which are largely answered I suppose from -- with the previous question. But given the movement online and doing online meetings and all those sort of things, I mean do you envisage that a permanent change in your organization, and I guess for some of the other organizations that you're working with?
Look, I think it's an unprecedented, but we held out in Xref because we like each other's company and we have beautiful offices in -- just down at Dawes Point in Sydney. And I think that all of us, it was a sad day when all of us figured out that we were all going to move our offices to home. I think that, as I termed and as I've spoken to our team about that, we did see the biggest human migrations of all time of people moving from their office to their home. I think it's a really easy thing to ask an employee to move their role to their homes. And I don't think many would argue. However, Tim and I have had histories of building businesses from our bedrooms, and I think it's a really hard thing to do. And people are thinking on the onset, that it's a very easy thing to do, but learning very quickly that it's -- it takes an awful lot of prudent behavior to be able to work from home. In fact, if you have a look at the Xref blogs, we've just announced a guide to doing this, right, so we're getting involved in topics around working from home. I think the easy thing to do is ask somebody to work from home, but the hardest thing to do and what we are going to confront is when companies start asking candidates to -- or asking employees to go back to the office. I think employees are going to turn around and say, hang on a minute, I have proved that I am far more productive working from home. And that, in fact, I am a less of a cost to your organization and far more productive doing it this way, and I'm now used to it. So I think we are not going to see a huge migration of people back to offices. And I think this is going to change things for good. And I think that -- I think we will benefit as an online automated platform from that.
I reiterate that at all. I mean we're already -- probably won't want to be a property landlord when this runs out to be quite honest because with our closeness to community, it seems to work -- if you can work remotely, it seems to be working well. And as Lee said, we've been very good at working. We set this up originally, Lee and I working. We're running multiple jobs and doing everything remotely. And I think the RapidID pays into that as well because it means that the days of you walking into an office is providing a copy of your passport and a copy of your driving license, which is both a copied and stuck in a filing cabinet, out the back all gone. And to use a product that is as groundbreaking as the RapidID product that can verify you in real time and to an official government source takes away; a, that face-to-face contact and someone needing to be there; and secondly, the security and the data capability that it provides in protecting companies. So I've got great things for the RapidID of where it could actually go. And as Lee said, we're seeing a nice solid revenue from them. It's gradually increasing. We've got some good partnerships and some good scope that's coming through. So for us, it was a great move at a great time.
Next, we have [ Ricky ] from Health Capital.
I'm just back here. I have to apologize. I have to admit I'm quite new to this learning about this business. So this question you may have addressed back in the past and it might be pretty elementary. But I'm just trying to understand the difference between what's on offer between RapidID and the CVCheck and the alliances you've got. I know that CVCheck, their main offering is essentially the police checks. But it does seem like to me that CVCheck does offer a lot of the same background check that RapidID does. And so yes, I'd like to understand how the 2 are different. And secondly, I want to understand how well the CVCheck alliance is going and how that will lead to your sheet?
So the big difference is that CVCheck does not offer the DVS, the document verification service. In fact, CVCheck and RapidID are talking about sorting services between them as well. So they're very complementary, in fact. So CVCheck is exceptional at the police checks, working with children and the directors checks and all of those things, but RapidID offers the connection to the DVS service so that we can validate passports and driver licenses around the world. So very much ID as averse to sort of criminal history and things like that. So in fact, they're complementary, and they are discussing some alliances on a few clients. It's actually really, really quite good. It's a good trio. Yes. What was the next question?
How is their alliance coming along?
Well, on Friday night, I shared a beer over Zoom with Rod Sherwood, Rod and I get on exceptionally well, and we had 1.5-hour debrief after a very hectic week and enormous amounts of positives. Look, I think we've lived the same lives in terms of Xref and CVCheck. We've been around for -- listed for a similar amount of time. We've experienced similar stories. And I think that many more CEOs should spend time shooting the breeze because I think that the alliance we have is much better and far better than the previous relationship when we -- where we would compete with CVCheck. So I think we've been able to bring around really positive change to our clients.Our teams are really similar. We joke that we have a similar style of people in certain roles, whether that's our Head of Customer Success or Head of Sales. And even in the senior management team, we have very comparable roles. So I think that culturally, we're very aligned. We all get on very, very, very well, even in New Zealand. James lead CVCheck in New Zealand and Marley Merton is our Country Manager for New Zealand over there, and they've been able to do some really good deals together. So look, I think culturally, we're really well aligned. Historically, we've lived the same lives. And I think we've got a very big journey ahead of us, and we're performing for our clients. And we've been able to give our clients a single source of every check. And if you combine RapidID, CVCheck and Xref together in one environment, I don't think anybody in the market can compete with that.
That's excellent. And that's really good to hear that the alliances are going well. The cultural mix, that being good to hear. I'm really glad to hear that. But are you able to speak any numbers? How -- what's -- I think I can call all of this cross-sell like. So what percentage of your sales are also going to CVCheck and vice versa?
I'll answer it a different way. We are and have this week another workshop so that we can get the Xref's product into CVCheck. I think if I was to announce any numbers, I wouldn't do it without coming to market with Rod and making sure that myself and Rod had a joint announcement on any successes. And I wouldn't be able to announce anything without Rod's involvement and consent, not only being public, but obviously, any successes that we have within that partnership, I think that we will present them to market together. But I think what you'll see next is the Xref product pop up within CVCheck so that it simply doesn't matter where the client wants to consume Xref or where the client wants to consume the checks in CVCheck, they can do it with other platform and it's a commercial benefit to both companies.For those people that have been texting my phone during this call, we really do appreciate the sentiment and I'm going to be sharing those text to the management team because at the moment, I think we really appreciate the positivity that's coming from our shareholders. Any other questions?
Thank you. There are no questions in queue at the moment.
Okay. Well, I think if you do have questions, feel free to come through to my e-mail, lee@xref.com or tim@xref.com. We have an investor page. All of the details are found on the quarterly. Feel free to have a direct conversation with myself at any time. And thank you for spending the last hour and 8 minutes with us. That's blown us away this morning. The questions have been fantastic. And we're really looking forward to giving you updates as the quarter unfolds. But to you and all your families, please stay safe, and we'll speak to you soon. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this comes to the end of the conference call. Thank you for your participation.