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Intrinsic Value is all-important and is the only logical way to evaluate the relative attractiveness of investments and businesses.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the IRB Infrastructure Developers Conference Call for discussing the unaudited/audited financial results for the quarter ended -- year ended March 31, 2022 and recent developments.
We have with us on the call today, Mr. Virendra Mhaiskar; Mr. Carlos Ugarte; Mr. Jose Tamariz, Mr. Dhananjay Joshi; Mr. Anil Yadav, Mr. Mehul Patel; Ms. Poonam Nishal; and Mr. Tushar Kawedia. [Operator Instructions]
Please note that the division of call would be 45 minutes and any queries left unanswered after the call can be subsequently made to the management for adequate response and resolution. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now request Mr. Mhaiskar to give you an overview of significant developments during the quarter. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Very good morning to all of you. I would like to welcome all the investors and analysts on this conference call. Hope you have all been able to go through the detailed numbers as well as the presentation that was released by the management last evening.
In the quarter gone by, capitalizing on the strong tailwind of massive capital raise of INR 5,347 crores, we have achieved improvement in ratings across IRB Group. Even Fitch Ratings has upgraded the international long-term issuer default rating on IRB Infrastructure Developers to BB+ from BB with a stable outlook.
This effort has helped us to negotiate better interest rates across projects. This will lead to an overall savings of more than INR 100 crores annually for its subsidiary. Details of the same are provided in the corporate presentation.
We are pleased to inform that Palsit Dankuni tollway project in Bengal has received the appointed date from April 2, 2022. And the toll collection on the project has also commenced, and the collection numbers are in line with our projection. Implementation of the project will be through private trust.
We have completed the rights issue of INR 243 crores in the private trust and proceeds of the sale will be utilized for the Bengal project. The company being the sponsor of the private trust will continue to hold 51% and GIC affiliates will continue to hold balance 49%. And accordingly, they have invested INR 119 crores as part of their share.
Vadodara Kim expressway implemented by VK1 Expressway Private Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the company, has been issued a provisional completion certificate by the competent authority upon substantial completion of the work. Consequently, the SPV is eligible for receipt of biannual annuity payments from the NHAI for the period of next 15 years. It is one of the first projects of the prestigious Delhi-Mumbai expressway corridor to achieve provisional completion.
We have also received PCOD 2 from NHAI for additional length of approximately 20 kilometers for the IRB West Coast project from Karwar to Kundapur. Pursuant to that, the toll tariff from the project has been revised upwards by 10% from 5th of March.
We are pleased to inform that the arbitration awards for Amritsar-Pathankot and Panaji-Goa project, amounting to INR 418 crores and INR 370 crores, respectively, has been upheld by the Honorable Delhi High Court in favor of the company dismissing the appeal by NHAI.
Third wave of COVID in India has some impact on the traffic, especially on the car traffic in the month of January '22. Our per-day collections, however, have now improved to over [ INR 53 million ] for the quarter ended March '22 as against [ INR 50 million ] per day for the quarter ended March '21. The growth during this quarter was 6% year-on-year. During the month of February and March, Mumbai-Pune and Ahmedabad-Vadodara project has dropped a traffic growth of over 8% and 6%, respectively, as compared to some months of the previous -- same months of the previous year.
We have received toll revision of approximately 10% from 1st April '22 for the year FY '23, in line with the concession agreement for Ahmedabad-Vadodara Private InvIT project and 4 of the public InvIT projects. High inflation will benefit operational projects as the operations and maintenance cost is only to the extent of 10% to 12% of revenue.
Impact of inflation on under construction projects, I would like to add some light on this. For HAM projects during the construction phase, the escalation to the extent of 40% is provided by NHAI and the balance 60% by IRB or lenders as the case maybe. During the operations period, IRB would be receiving the annual fees from NHAI for the balance 60% adjusted to escalation with interest. Thus making escalation a complete pass-through.
As far as BOT projects are concerned, we have seen 3 major materials that is bitumen, cement and steel witnessing a price rise of 20% to 25% over the last 6 months on an average. This material constitute approximately 20% of the total project cost. Hence, the impact of these materials on total project cost is around 4% to 4.5%. We have sufficient escalation in-build, in our estimated costs of the BOT projects to cover the rise in material prices.
We have witnessed some bidding activity during Q4 of FY '22, which included a few BOT and large number of HAM projects. We have participated in the BOT project but not participated in HAM projects due to intense competition in bidding. Most of the HAM projects were awarded below NHAI TPC as against 20% to 30% above as the case used to be.
The total order book of the company is now around INR 15,000 crores, of which INR 10,000-odd crores pertains to EPC. This strong order book provides good visibility for the next 2 to 3 years.
In the future as well, we will only wait for projects that have potential to create value for our stakeholders. We are pleased to inform that we have received final sanction from lenders for the financial assistance sought for Ganga BOT -- and Ganga Expressway BOT project and Chittoor Thachur project. Upon completion of the documentation, we will soon be announcing the financial closure for these projects as well.
To facilitate our strategy to achieve sustainable growth, we intend to churn assets and unlock value to fund the future projects. To achieve this, we intend to offer eligible assets to public InvIT at regular intervals going forward.
To discuss this opportunity, we intend to submit a concept paper to the Public InvIT management soon. Post their review,, we will try to reach out to all stakeholders to enlighten them about the opportunity and seek their views on it as well. This effort will put IRB on a self-sustaining growth trajectory.
I will now request Tushar Kawedia to give an overview of the financial performance of the company. Over to you, Tushar.
Thank you, sir. Now I present the financial analysis for Q4 FY '22 versus Q4 FY '21. The total consolidated income for Q4 FY '22 has increased to INR 1,683 crores from INR 1,650 crores, registering a growth of 2%. The consolidated toll revenues for Q4 FY '22 has increased to INR 510 crores from INR 488 crores, increased by 5%. The consolidated construction revenue for Q4 FY '22 has increased to INR 1,173 crores from INR 1,162 crores, registering a growth of 1%.
EBITDA for Q4 FY '22 increased to INR 891 crores from INR 805 crores, registering a growth of 11%. Interest cost has decreased to INR 399 crores from INR 451 crores in Q4 FY '21. Depreciation has increased to INR 189 crores in Q4 FY '22 from INR 177 crores in Q4 FY '21.
PBT has increased to INR 303 crores in Q4 FY '22 from INR 176 crores, adjusting a growth of 72%. PAT after share of JV has increased to INR 175 crores from INR 97 crores, registering a growth of 79%. Earnings per share on basic and diluted basis, excluding extraordinary income, has increased to INR 2.89 per share from INR 2.77 registering a growth of 4%. I'll also present the financial analysis for year-to-year that is for FY '22 versus FY '21. The total consolidated income for FY '22 stood at INR 6,355 crores as against INR 5,488 crores, registering a growth of 16%. The consolidated toll revenues for FY '22 has increased to INR 1,877 crores from INR 1,665 crores, registering a growth of 13%.
The consolidated construction revenues for FY '22 has increased to INR 4,479 crores as against the INR 3,822 crores, registering a growth of 17%. EBITDA has increased to INR 3,349 crores from INR 2,702 crores, registering a growth of 24%.
Interest cost has increased to INR 1,891 crores in FY '22 from INR 1,692 crores in FY '21. Depreciation has increased to INR 683 crores in FY '22 as against INR 582 crores in FY '21. PBT excluding extraordinary income, has increased to INR 776 crores as against INR 427 crores, registering a growth of 82%.
PAT after share from JV has increased to INR 361 crores from INR 117 crores, registering a growth of 200%. Earnings per share on basic and diluted basis, excluding an extraordinary income, is increased to INR 8.69 per share from INR 3.33% (sic) [ INR 3.33 per share ] registering a growth of 160%.
Now I request the moderator to open the session for question and answers.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit K. from DAM Capital.
Congratulations on a good year, especially on raising the money from strategic investors. Sir, my first question is what is the revenue EBITDA and profit and total debt for the Private InvIT for FY '22?
Yes. Private InvIT, you want EBITDA profit?
Revenue, EBITDA -- Revenue, I think, INR 212 billion, right, for the entire year?
Yes. So in terms of Private InvIT, Mohit, the profit will be basically the -- if you look at IRB's whole year's share of loss, it's around INR 226 crores and divided by 51%. So roughly INR 400 crores was -- loss was there in the Private InvIT. Out of that, close to INR 200 crores was pertaining to loss on account of fair valuation and around INR 200 crores was lost from the business.
And as we have seen a toll rate revision across the Private InvIT project and a couple of projects has got completed during the year. On the backdrop of this next financial year, we expect the loss to come down in the range of around INR 70 crores to INR 75 crores.
Please [ also ] to share the EBITDA and debt number with Private InvIT?
Debt number is INR 9,500 crores. We will shortly share the EBITDA number.
EBITDA number for full year was INR 710 crores on a consol basis for us.
Understood, sir. Next, what is the status of Hapur Moradabad Road? I think it was supposed to start from May, somewhere May. Is that the right understanding?
So the project is about to achieve its PCOD. We are expecting it to happen in this first quarter itself.
Understood. And sir, given that the order book is around INR 10,000 crores, how do you expect the EPC revenues to pan out in FY '23? And what kind of margin we should assume for this -- for FY'23?
So what we are expecting from our construction revenue, the revenue should be -- because now the new projects have already achieved the appointed date and the financial closures are in place, we may -- the construction revenue is expected around of INR 5,500 crores for next year, considering all 5 new projects are starting its construction. And the EBITDA margins, what we are expecting are somewhere between 24% to 26%.
I think, Mohit, you will appreciate that we will have around 3 projects of HAM under construction. And as we have guided in past also, HAM will have lower EBITDA margin. So considering the blended EBITDA margin, it will be around 20% to 23%.
Understood, sir. Lastly, on the sir, Ganga Expressway, have you finalized the project cost? And what is the expected time line for the implementation?
For Ganga?
Ganga Expressway, yes.
Ganga, I think sir has already explained that we have achieved the -- we are advanced stage of achieving the financial closure. And once the financial closure is achieved, we expect to start the project.
As I said, the total debt component will be close to INR 2,700 crores. The total equity will be around INR 2,200 crores and INR 1,750-odd crores in the [ grant ].
The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from Philip Capital.
And congrats on constantly improving financials on the balance sheet. There is -- my question was basically on something that you just delivered in your opening remarks about basically taking the proposal of transferring assets to the Public InvIT.
Could you just throw maybe a little bit more light on this that I mean as of now, whatever projects that we have in the Private InvIT as and when they get operational, is it that we are looking to transfer them one by one, of course, subject to pending approvals from the shareholders and all?
So if you could just throw light on them and how we will tend to start the process? And which projects do we intend to probably begin the process with?
Vibhor, I would request you to patiently wait for 2 more days here, once the paper come out, which will throw full clarity on the projects that would come up. I can only give you a fair idea that -- I mean, the kind of value unlocking or kind of sizing that we are thinking of offering to the Private or Public InvIT could be in the range of around INR 2,500 crores or INR 1,000 crores.
That's the kind of sales proceeds we envisage from sale of projects because we -- the effort is a very detailed effort that will go into the process. And that's the kind of sizing that we are looking here.
Got it. Got it, sir. But I think the overall -- so let's maybe asking for a generic comment in [ the assets ]. So our endeavor would be that going forward as and when we take more projects, they first go into the private InvIT and when they become operational, we give the public InvIT an option to buy them out. Is that the right understanding?
So in a generic manner, what I would say here is that while we are strongly back to the growth phase. This time around, we want to churn the assets and grow. Thereby, we achieved 2 major objectives: One, the growth gets funded from the churn of assets, which would unlock the capital that was deployed in those projects. . And as a result, the construction profit that used to get reinvested back into the project for partly meeting the equity cost, equity component would now remain free with the company for reducing the debt or for distribution to the shareholders.
This will be a, to my mind, a tectonic shift in the -- where the business has been conducted in the past and how it will be conducted in the future. While growth will come from churning up assets, the construction profit remains available for a reduction in debt or distribution. So this is the prime structural change that we are going to try and bring into the business.
Got it. Got it. And HAM would generally remain out of the [indiscernible] of Public or Private InvIT. They will remain with the parent company, [indiscernible].
That's correct.
Got it, sir. Sir, just a couple of bookkeeping questions. if I may. So would you be able to tell us what is the total gross debt at the end of the year? And out of that, how much is SPV debt and how much is debt at the stand-alone level?
Yes. So Vibhor, with respect to debt, if I can explain you the project-wise debt. Mumbai-Pune has 3,000 -- sorry, INR 6,400 crores debt. Ahmedabad-Vadodara, INR 3,000 crores debt. And close to 900...
Sorry? Ahmedabad-Vadodara, INR 3,400 crore?
Ahmedabad-Vadodara, INR 3,000 crores.
INR 3,000 crores, okay.
Close to INR 900 crores is in VK1. So that is the SPV level debt. And IRB including the overdraft, we have roughly INR 3,500 crores debt.
Basically -- so that takes us the total debt to be around INR 14,000 crores?
INR 13,800 crores to be very precise.
INR 13,800 crores?
Yes.
Got it, sir. There has been -- there's been only drawdown in the VK1, no other HAM projects or any other projects, there has not been any drawdown?
So VK1 is now on the completion. There's hardly amount left for disbursement. So that will be drawn in this quarter.
Got it. And Palsit will not be consolidated, right? Palsit-Dankuni would be part of the Private InvIT. So it would just come as a JV [indiscernible], okay?
That's right. That's right.
Got it. Got it. Sir, just one more clarification on the other income. So the other income in this quarter was also significantly higher, on the higher side as compared to a usual run rate. And last quarter, of course, we had INR 170 crores of fair value gain.
What explains the high other income in this quarter given that we also reduced the debt in this quarter, so the interest income would not have been much high levy?
Other income includes close to INR 170 crores interest received on award received for Panaji-Goa project. That has led a higher income of INR 170 crores. But if we look at the onetime expense also, we have onetime expense of close to INR 160 crores. Out of that, roughly INR 30 crores pertains to Panaji-Goa and roughly INR 125 crores, INR 130 crores pertains to the issue expenses for the preferential announcement. And there is close to INR 50 crores of additional interest expense higher in this quarter because of the prepayment charges, some transaction cost reversal and some initial days interest for loans which got prepaid in the month of January.
The last [indiscernible] debt repayment that we did as a part of the capital raise. I think was mentioning about that prepayment.
Got it. Got it. And then this INR 150 crores of exceptional expenses, this would have been a part of other income, right? So INR 170 crores of exceptional income and INR 150 crores of exceptional expense, they kind of negate each other. Despite, other income was around INR 240 crores.
Yes.
So just wanted to check what takes the other income so high? Or is that going to be the normal runrate going forward as well?
No, it was based on the arbitration award of Panaji-Goa where the court has awarded a interest also. So that interest fund is part of the other income. That is an amount of INR 170 crores. And on expense side, its a onetime expense is close to INR 160 crores. So both negate each other.
Right, that's what I'm saying. So if they negate each other, then that is INR 10 crores, right? So these are both exceptional items. So if I remove INR 10 crores also, then also our other income for the quarter is INR 240 crores?
No, no. In INR 240 crores, you have to remove INR 170 crores.
Okay, INR 160 crores is not in there. INR 160 is in financial net debt?
Yes, yes. Because see, those are not netted out. On the expense side, there is INR 160 crores.
And that expense side will be in which line item?
I think there will be some in the office admin and majority of it will be in the direct expenses because whatever the expenditure was done for the Panaji-Goa, that also we have written off during this quarter.
Got it. So that clarifies. That really helps. Great, sir. So just one last question. If you could just maybe give the breakup of the order book. The EPC order book is now almost INR 10,000 crores. So if you could just give us that what is the total composition in terms of, let's say, the 4 HAMs, Palsit and Ganga Expressway?
We have EPC order book of INR 10,500 crores and O&M order book of INR 5,500 crores. And in the...
Yes, INR 10,500 crores, if you could just give the breakup of those projects, HAMs, Palsit and Ganga?
So if you see out of INR 10,000 crores, the EPC order book on the BOT project that is done by Palsit is somewhere around INR 5,000 crores and the balance is to INR 5,500 crores and balance for 4 projects of HAM is around INR 4,500 crores.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers during the quarter. Sir, most of my questions are kind of bookkeeping. So bear with me, please, if I ask something on the balance sheet.
So to begin with, I understand I mean when I look at the balance sheet this quarter, I mean, it seems as if there have been substantial movement in property, plant and equipment and at the same time, we've never had this large receivable for us when I look at the historical number.
So what would explain this large receivable? I mean, almost on INR 600-odd crores of noncurrent and there's current of around INR 1,000-odd crores.
I thought given the fact that we're working for our own SPVs. I mean, payments would always come on time, except for barring for some slight delays in -- I mean, if there's any delay in this disposal, INR 1,600-odd crores of receivables seem to be fairly large and then we've never had this large number, at least in the past with us.
So the receivers, what you're looking for is from the receivables from IRB or the control perspective, those are mostly from the SPVs, which -- for which the construction work is done. So there the receipt of payment is hardly takes 1.5 months to 2 months. There is what you are seeing as the outstanding is some portion of the receivable which is -- which has to come from NHAI side on account of some [ sewers ] works and the utility shiftings. So that is slightly longer time than the normal time, and that's why they have been reported for a period where we have more than 12 months now outstanding as a noncurrent receivables.
Sure. So the INR 600 crores, which is reflecting as a part of noncurrent would mostly be COS, right?
COS and utility shifting, you're right.
Sure. Okay. Okay. And how about this one, the fixed assets net property, plant and equipment. So September figure was almost [ INR 122 crores ] and this has increased to around INR 950-odd crores.
This is on account of the capitalization of the airport project, which has led to the increase in this land property plant and equipment.
Okay. Okay. Sure. And sir, I mean, has there been any restatement in our order backlog? Because if I remember numbers correctly, last quarter, it was almost INR 18,500 crores. And this quarter, it's around INR 16,000 crores. And when I look at the Q4 number in terms of EPC revenue that we booked, it's around INR 950-odd crores.
So even if I were to adjust at INR 1,000 crores out of that INR 18,500 crores last quarter number. Ideally, it should have been around INR 17,500-odd crores, but the presentation is reflecting it around INR 16,000 crores. And there is a sharp drop on a sequential basis in an O&M order backlog from INR 6,300 crores to INR 5,500 crores. So what would explain it?
And also a small clarification on number that you gave, I mean, a split in terms of BOT and HAM. So you said BOT is around INR 5,500 crores in the core EPC order backlog of almost around INR 10,500-odd crores. But I thought your Ganga itself was almost around INR 6,000-odd crores and Palsit should be over and above Ganga. So why is this number INR 5,500 for BOTs?
Prem, I think with respect to first, I will explain the rationale why the order book has come down. And then we will go in that split of the order book. We have basically, earlier in the contract between SPV, were including the GST. And now those contracts are excluding the GST. And most of the peers are not taking GST in their order book, and we have tried to align the order book in line with the peers. And during the quarter, we have done a adjustment of GST. Almost order book would have been reduced by 12%. So as you rightly mentioned, Ganga was INR 6,000 crores including the GST. And if roughly INR 1,200 crores to INR 1,300 crores is reduced, the Ganga comes down to close to INR 4,500 crores to INR 4,700 crores. And Palsit Dankuni, which was close to INR 2,400 crores, that has also come down close to INR 2,000 crores. So that -- Tushar was explaining that BOT order book is roughly INR 6,300 crores to INR 6,500 crores and roughly balance INR 4,000 crores is the HAM order book. And the similar adjustment is also done in the O&M order book.
Sure, sir. But given -- so I mean earlier, when we used to report our numbers on EPCs, I mean were these numbers are the revenue numbers, including GST or excluding GST?
Earlier, it was including the GST. Now these numbers are excluding GST.
So technically, given the fact the tax GST tends to be a pass-through. Ideallly, I mean, at least on an optical basis, the EPC margin should look better because I mean you would report your numbers net of GST, which potentially was a pass-through earlier. So I mean, actually, EBITDA would certainly be the same, but the percentage ideally should look better.
Yes, so EPC margins will look better with this particular change in the treatment.
Sure, sir. Okay, sure. And just one last, if I may, I think if you could explain the sharp churn in net debt number. I think it's from INR 9,300 crores or it's going to INR 11,000 crores -- INR 11,000-odds crores, which is almost around INR 1,800 crores. So INR 500 crores, I understand [indiscernible] the payments that you would have made to the authority for Mumbai-Pune and what would explain the rest of almost around INR 1,300-odd crores of the guidance? Any...
Prem, as we have explained the last quarter also, INR 1,600 crores of prepayment was done in the month of January. So if you reconcile with the December number, you have to adjust for INR 1,600 crores. And as you rightly mentioned, we have drawn a debt for Mumbai-Pune. If you will adjust for these 2, then automatically, the debt number gets reconciled.
No, I was looking at the net debt number. So I mean [indiscernible] because net debt was paid in January or not -- yes. No, okay. I'll take it offline in answer.
The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
My first question on EBITDA margin. So [indiscernible] EBITDA margin, I think Tushar [indiscernible] .
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Kandpal, but your voice is not clear, sir. There is a lot of disturbance from your line.
Hello, is it better now?
Yes, Yes.
So this EBITDA margin, Tushar sir mentioned, 24% to 26% and [ Anil ] sir, you had mentioned about 20% to 23%. So what is the guidance here?
So as you mentioned that the mix because the new -- next year, the mix would be like HAM and HAM projects are also there. Earlier, it was only 1 project and now there will be 3 -- 4 projects for this particular year, that will lead to slightly lower margins because those projects have lower margins.
So we have 20% to 23%...
Around 24% of EBITDA margin.
20%?
20 -- 2-4, 24%.
Second question is on the loss funding of the Private InvIT. Have you done any loss funding this year because we had about INR 400 crores of losses, if I assume, INR 200 crores will be noncash in nature. The balance will be INR 200 crores of operational losses. So any shortfall in debt servicing, anything done in this year on Private InvIT?
Parikshit, as you are aware that in BOT projects, majority of the losses is on account of the amortization. If you look at the amortization of the Private InvIT, that would have been in the range of more than INR 300 crores. On net basis, it would have been the cash positive itself.
Okay. So there's no loss funding because it was taken care of [indiscernible]?
Yes. So Private InvIT for this year, it was on self-sustaining basis.
And the last question is on -- I think Mhaiskar sir has earlier mentioned the point on transfer of assets to the Public InvIT. This INR 2,400 crores is the enterprise value or equity value you mentioned?
Equity value.
Equity value. So even if it is levered at 30%, it could be almost INR 7,000 crore, INR 7,500 crores worth of assets and [indiscernible] .
Not so high because some of the projects we have delivered. But I will still say the same answer that request you to wait for 2 more days till the concept paper is out.
And so this IR will be like -- like discount rate will be at least like double-digit only?
Parikshit, again, let's wait for a few days, the concept paper will be out to public [indiscernible]. We'll reconnect on that.
And this last thing, sir, last year, we had some good orders coming in from Ganga Expressway and some of the BOT projects which have come. So what's the sense on ordering [indiscernible] central ordering on the BOT toll project for this year FY '23?
I think even for this year, we expect 10% to 15% of the total awards to come up on BOT. And even the consolidation that we have seen in the BOT number of players that have been participating, I think there will be good growth opportunities spread out during the year for BOT players.
The next question is from the line of Alok Deora from Motilal Oswal.
Congratulations on decent numbers. Sir, a lot of questions have been answered. Just a few questions. So one is what would be our normalized other income going ahead? Because in the last couple of quarters, we have seen some kind of one-offs. So what's the normalized other income we can work with?
I think it will be close to INR 40 crores to INR 45 crores of other income on a normalized basis per quarter.
Right. But we have won one more arbitration award. So that will also -- I mean that will also reflect in -- by when that will come through?
It should be coming in the first quarter to my understanding because the Public InvIT, I mean, it is a pass-through from the Public InvIT. So the procedural aspect of that has been completed. So it should hit the numbers in the first quarter.
Sure. So some of it will come in that also?
Yes.
And sir...
I would like to add here that if you have noted, for the last 5, 6 years, whatever projects we have completed, there are arbitrations and disputes that are ongoing with NHAI. And you will appreciate that now almost 4, 5 years, this has been going on.
So my own sense is that over the next 4 to 5 years, you will see some award or the others that would keep coming and this would, to my understanding, become a profit center for next good number of years where you will see 1 or 2, 1 or 2 awards that will keep helping the balance sheet on a annual basis.
So to my understanding, this is going to be a big number that we will see unfolding over the next few years.
Just to add that, whatever the expenditure is already expenditure for those projects already incurred. And the cash flow we have not factored in our business plan. But then definitely, that will be the additional cash flow, which will be available to the company.
Sure, sure. And sir, in terms of order book, like if you see it's around INR 16,000 crores worth of order book and some big projects we have won recently so not really started till now. So based on the order book and the current execution run rate, what's the outlook on growth and how many orders we are looking to win, what quantum in FY '22?
So I would say that we today have around, as Tushar said, INR 500-odd crores of construction execution is what we are targeting for the upcoming year. And now you have 2, 2.5 years of visibility on the order book -- on the construction order book alone. So it's a good visibility on the order book at this point in time.
As you rightly said, there are 3 projects which are about to commence construction. And as I said, for the pending HAM as well as Ganga Expressway, where we have received the final sanction and post documentation very soon, we should be in a position to announce the financial closure. So even those 2 projects will hit execution.
And with that happening, I think all the projects would then be under execution phase. And during the year, we'll again try to rebuild the same order book position which what we are starting this year. And that's what the target would be, that maintain the order book near the present level.
Sure, sir. And regarding this Public InvIT of transfer of the project, which you mentioned about. So I mean, it's been some time since the Public InvIT got any new project after the Amritsar-Pathankot. So this concept paper -- floating of this concept paper, how much -- what would be the time line like? Because this concept paper will float and what would be the time line to materialize that?
Okay. So the way I see this is the concept paper will be out in the coming month. And once that is out, the consultative process, to my mind, should take a quarter because it will be a fragmented base for unitholders who we will have to reach out to.
And once we have the sense on what kind of appetite they are looking at for Public InvIT, what kind of funding option they would be wanting to be taken up, then a fomral proposal in the second quarter can be made out to the Public InvIT.
And in the third quarter, you can expect the execution of the voting. And thereafter, Public InvIT raising resources. And then early next year, that is around Jan, Feb, one can expect the transaction to commit. I mean this is a broad time line that comes to our mind. And this is how the whole thing will play out.
Sure. Because in Amritsar-Pathankot. I think it was a slightly shorter time frame of around 5, 6 months when we had kind of closed the transaction. So...
No, you are right. But here, we will have to reach out to investors to understand their appetite. And only after that kind of formal proposal be made. So we would not like to make a formal proposal without knowing the mind of the investors and that is why to reach out at [indiscernible], we need the concept paper so that we can reach out to them, explain the project rationale. And once they are comfortable, then make a formal proposal.
And all the very best. If I have more questions, I'll come back.
Sure.
The next question is from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Private Limited.
This year -- I mean last year, for FY '22, we see that on the BOT segment, your revenue from operation is around INR 17,000 -- INR 1,800 crores. And PBT is only INR 42 crores. So how do you see this financial year when things are normal completely?
As we explained earlier also, the last year, the Q1 was impacted because of the second wave of COVID. And this year, we expect a normal year, and we have received a 10% tariff revision on Ahmedabad-Vadodara. So considering that, we expect a healthy growth in the toll business. And there will be a profit to the tune of INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores in the BOT segment.
That is you're talking of PBT, right?
[indiscernible]. And also, if you see these projects, both the Project AV and MP, in AV, we have already received the reduction in the interest rate, which will also contribute in the savings of interest and improvement in the PBT.
Further, the MP duty is also in the process of having the reduction in the interest rate which will again contribute to the savings. So by -- roughly by whatever means -- roughly with these savings, there will be another INR 80 crores to INR 85 crores saving on account of interest, which will improve the PAT.
You are talking of INR 400 crores PBT or INR 400 crores EBITDA. That's what I wanted to know.
INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores, PAT.
PAT. Okay. Okay. Okay. And just one clarification. In the BOT segment, you have something like other income of INR 40 crores. What is that INR 40 crore for? What is this other income in BOT segment?
So in BOT, if you see we collect toll daily basis. We invest those -- we invest those funds on a liquid fund and generate some returns. Some amount contribute -- some amount is from those investments and the other is towards the [ DSRA ] in the projects, which generate -- which is in the form of FD also contributes to the other income.
Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Yes. I would like to thank all of you for being on the call to understand the rationale of the numbers and the outlook for the upcoming years. And we would be glad to connect again upon declaring the unaudited first quarter results. Have a great day. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. We thank you for your participation and for using [indiscernible] conferencing services. You may please disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a great day.