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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q4 and FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of Nuvoco Vistas Corporation Limited. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be, therefore, viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. The company assumes no responsibility to publicly amend, modify or revise any forward-looking statement on the basis of any subsequent development, information or events or otherwise.
[Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Madumita Basu, Chief Marketing, Innovation, North Sales and Business Development of the company. Thank you, and over to you.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss our fourth quarter and full fiscal year 2024 results. Before we delve into our performance details and look ahead with optimism, let me briefly address the broader macroeconomic environment. The recently released GDP numbers surprised strongly on that side. Via GDP expanded at a 6-quarter high rate in Q3 FY '24 at 8.4%. Economic activity gained momentum in February 2024 after witnessing a slight moderation in January. GDP growth for Q4 FY '24 is expected at 7.2%. It is not the least that estimates for FY '24 will be exceeding and the rate closer to 8% maybe [indiscernible]. GDP growth is likely to remain robust at 7.4% during FY '25. Bank credit to the agriculture sector continued to register double-digit growth, reaching its highest level since the COVID-19 pandemic during Q3 FY '24.
Bank credit to housing sector continued to grow in double digits. India is likely to experience above normal rainfall in 2024. A good and normal monsoon should significantly address inflation and stimulate farming. All these factors over [indiscernible] for the cement demand. Looking internally now at Nuvoco's performance for the year ended 31st March 2024. We are delighted to report a strong performance in FY '24 amidst volatile demand environment. The company recorded an EBITDA of INR 1,657 crores and a profit after tax of INR 147 crores, marking the highest levels of profitability in FY '22 the same year we launched our IPO. This clearly underlines the effectiveness of our strategic initiatives and operational efficiencies. Despite demand challenges, we stuck to our strategy of value over volume, premiumization, geo mix optimization, brand strengthening and cost optimization. Deconstructing the realization and EBITDA per [indiscernible] further, it is important to note that the accrual of incentives from Panagarh facility was stopped from April 2023, while incentives from Rajasthan plant ended in June 2023. These plants have contributed approximately INR 60 per tonne as incentives in FY '23. The succession of these incentives makes the quality of our EBITDA growth and margin expansion even more commendable.
Needless to say, our robust EBITDA growth in FY '24 is a clear indicator of our operational excellence and unwavering commitment to cost efficiency and strategic intent of value-led growth. The company's robust EBITDA performance paired with a notable reduction in debt by INR 384 crores Y-o-Y to INR 4,030 crores has resulted in a significant achievement, bringing the debt-to-EBITDA ratio to 2.4x.
Furthermore, this reduction in debt aligns with our historical trend of net debt reduction, emphasizing our continuous focus on deleveraging. When it comes to cost efficiency, we are happy to report significant reductions in operating costs, particularly in the areas of power and fuel and raw materials. Our strategic initiatives project Bridge 1.0 aimed at enhancing efficiency has yielded a notable reduction of INR 30 per tonnes in operating costs since its implementation in Q2 FY '24.
At this juncture, let me also read you our quarter performance related to the 3 major cement cost elements. Power and fuel costs reduced 4% quarter-on-quarter due to addition sourcing and optimization of fuel and power mix, coupled with decline in [indiscernible] and coal cost. Raw material cost per tonnes decreased 2% quarter-on-quarter mainly due to decline in slab cost. On the flat front, I would like to reiterate that Nuvoco continues to be better placed due to its long-term supply agreement.
Distribution cost per tonnes declined quarter-on-quarter due to operational efficiencies in logistics. In our ongoing commitment to premiumization, premium products have maintained a critical role within our portfolio. significantly contributing to 37% of the company's cement rate volumes in FY '24, registering an increase from 36% in FY '23. To further enhance brand equity, we unveiled various marketing campaigns during the year, such as [indiscernible] and [indiscernible] Naam Hi Kafi Hai. As part of IHP driven rural reach program, we introduced engaging brand activation activity, Sabse Khaas Sarpanch, showcasing the impact on stories of Sarpanch's contributing to win development. We introduced [indiscernible] XS, a premium composite cement into the markets of West Bengal [indiscernible]. In addition to this, we extended our premium cement radio concrete 1 to the Jharkhand market. We also rolled out the new cement packaging design with Nuvoco logo prominently placed on the trans side of the cement packs. The new design will highlight a much stronger bond between the company and its brand, reinforcing confidence in all our partners and customers.
Moving on to the cement demand. I will now focus a little more on the 2 markets, North and East, which are relevant for us. During the year, North region showed strong demand, and we grew ahead of the industry in the region. In contrast, the East region faced challenges throughout the year particularly in our core markets, in West Bengal in Jharkhand, where demand was notably subdued. With an East [indiscernible] and area demand surged ahead showing significant improvement in the year FY '24. However, towards the end of FY '24, our core markets witnessed some recovery in demand. While the union elections is a key monitorable in the near term. We are poised to take advantage of demand resurgence in our core markets where we have a lower network and a redoubtable premium position.
Furthermore, we have launched new programs in the states of [indiscernible] and [indiscernible] with specific focus on volumes in FY '25. With an industry best trade share of 74%, we also see opportunity to improve volumes in the nontrade segment. Our optimism on the demand prospects in the region is driven by a confluence of factors, mainly trust on infrastructure development, including the construction of highways, railways and affordable housing.
As we speak, 27 lakh houses under PNAY program are pending for completion and the feast. And out of this 14 lakh are only in the state of West Bengal. Union government in the interim budget announced that [ 2 crore ] more houses would be taken up to meet the housing requirement. Approximately 19,000 kilometers of roads under Bharatmala [indiscernible] a Phase 1 is yet to be constructed. And out of this, 3,500 kilometers is in East alone. Additionally, the rising urbanization, growth in the real estate sector and increased spending on commercial and industrial projects is expected to support the demand for cement.
Just to close, in North, we will continue to drive volumes as we ramp up operations at our Haryana Cement plant. I will now briefly touch upon the ready-mix and APM businesses, both businesses are performing well. On the ready-mix concrete business, we have commissioned 7 new plants in the current fiscal, bringing the total number of plants to 58 Pan India. Given our continuous trust on premiumization, value-added product mix stood at 31% of total sales volume in FY '24.
In MDM business, [indiscernible] and cover block segment continued to witness sales improvement. During the year, we expanded our [indiscernible] and with market requirements. Now coming to sustainability. At the core of our operations is our commitment to sustainability. We recognize that as a major player in the cement industry, we have a responsibility to minimize our environmental impact and need the way in sustainable practices. Our focused investment has yielded significant value and sustainability with emphasis on blended cement and optimization of power and fuel mix between traditional forces, alternative renewable energy sources, we have been able to significantly lower the carbon intensity of estimate manufacturing.
Touching on some sustainability parameters. The carbon emissions reduced by 2% year-on-year to 454 kg per CO2 per tonnes of cementitious material, which reaffirms our position as 1 of the industry leaders in low carbon emissions. I'm sorry, I'll just repeat the figures again, 2% Y-o-Y to 454 kg CO2 [indiscernible] cementitious materials. [indiscernible] saw an impressive improvement from 9% in FY '23 to 13% in FY '24, amongst the best in the industry.
A quick update now on our growth projects. Redefining projects at [indiscernible] and Sonali are at an advanced stage of completion. As you are aware, we successfully commissioned a 1.2 million tonne mining unit at Haryana Cement plant, elevating the overall cement capacity to 25 million tonnes per annum. Within a quarter of commissioning, the plant utilization has been backed up to over 60%. Strategies for FY '25. As we embark on financial year FY '25, I will briefly touch on the comprehensive strategies across pillars of revenue, profitability, process and culture to drive growth and achieve our organization objectives. On the revenue front, our focus will remain on enhancing realization per tonne by prioritizing premiumization. We will work on expanding our presence in key markets of North Central and West regions, capitalizing on their growth potential. We will work on boosting sales within home market defined as an area of up to 200 kilometers from our manufacturing plant, thereby consolidating our value leadership and optimizing logistics costs.
On the profitability front, building on the success of Project bridge 1.0, we are embarking on Project bridge 2.0 in FY '25, with an aim to further our cost efficiency efforts targeting cost savings of up to INR 50 per tonnes. On the process-related strategies for FY '25 we will be launching the customer portal and initiating AI-enabled projects in specific areas, primarily to drive efficiency. Our culture, Building on our brand value and lower network, we will reemphasize customer centricity, delivering accuracy, speed and delight through a company-wide program. Last year, we made good progress with the launch of our leadership development programs. Following through on this, this year, we'll be launching academies across functional areas to build and nurture talent.
With this, I conclude my opening remarks. I'm joined here by Mr. Jaykumar Krishnaswamy, Managing Director, Nuvoco Vista; and Mr. Manish Agarwal, Chief Financial Officer of the company. We are here together to answer your questions. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] We'll take our first question from the line of Keshav BijaratanLahoti from HDFC Securities.
As you highlighted in the call that North has done pretty well compared to East, some fins on
Take a little bit loud Keshav.
Is it better now?
Yes.
So just want to get a sense on how has been the growth in North and East in FY '24? And how is the current mix of North and East?
So Keshav [indiscernible] our investment is 1.2 million tonnes in Haryana cement facility, our mix of lost business has gone up from 20% to 24%. Our full capacity is 25 million tonnes. That makes 6 million tonnes in North, 19 million tonnes in East. In North, we have seen growth ahead of the industry. We are focused on further volume growth in this region as we ramp up our capacity utilization in the new har cement north. In East our strategic intent till the year FY '24 was driving value over volume, and I have touched on our specific actions in my opening call remark.
The question is more on the side in FY '24, what has been the volume growth in North and how has been the East market? And how is the current volume mix for North and East in FY '24?
So the current mix is, as I mentioned, of the order of 22%, 23% of North to East. Keshav a more detailed growth of the regional split between North and East would be sensitive for this call you must excuse us. Needless to say that our Eastern region strategy has remained on value or volume. And in North, we have been taking roughly a 3% to 4% growth over and above the industry growth rate.
Just to add to you guys, it will not be right for us to give a reason why it splits because every company operates a band region and we are a company operation more than that region. And so growth is a mixture of both East North and center. And then we would not be able to exactly extend which is in the market grow. But as Madhumita said, very clearly in Balkans, we grew ahead of the industry, it is because value or volume or at a company level, the figures are there for all of us to see we could get just about flat and a little bit higher growth over last year in terms of volume. However, there are so many other parameters which are there in the overall performance in the company. And we're very proud of what we have been able to deploy and drive the strategy for FY '24.
Okay. Understood. That is helpful. How has been fuel cost going to hover in the next 1 or 2 quarters? And what was the fuel cost take [indiscernible] in Q4?
Moving from Q4 of last year all the way to Q4 of this year rupees per million cash for the company has come down all the way from 2.31, the way to about -- we ended the year at 1.65. So that's 1.63 was the full quarter and March delivered the lowest power and fuel costs in the last 8 quarters that's the kind of progressing in power and fuel cost. You will know very clearly our fuel strategies based on a blend of [indiscernible], linkage called domestic open market [indiscernible]. The key strategies for the company are very clearly focused on [indiscernible]. Number 2 due to get our maximum throughput out of the WHR and [indiscernible] and certainly a huge focus on AFR were trade four parts. We have reached a stage of about INR 1.63, INR 1.64 per million [indiscernible]. And going forward in the near 1 or 2 quarters, I don't see major volatility in fuel prices, understanding something dramatic happens in the external world pet coke prices are trending at about $112, $113 per tonnes. Our view is to continue the same number going forward. We've got linkage coal lined up for next 5 years, domestic open market coal is standing at close to about INR 1.5, INR 1.6 per million [indiscernible] content is a little bit low, which is good for us. As strategy of the company is to move from current 50% all the way to 60%, 70% going forward. All this would result in power and fuel costs trending at around 1.6, 1.62 coming 2 quarters. I think changes the whole number will continue for the balance period of the year, something favorably happens or adversely happens, we will update you in the next quarter results.
One last question from my side. What is the blended cement share in -- for FY '24?
I'm sorry, you're not auditive?
Blended cement share for FY '24?
No. I mean the management line is not audible.
Yes. Blended cement for the company came at
20.
[indiscernible] 19 20 and other cement about 80%.
Yes. We actually measure it more by CYK Keshav and now CYK 1.77.
So while blended cement is the strength of Nuvoco cement and flash cement vessels up. But we also see in certain markets in India, the country is also going towards OPT markets actually. So I guess going forward, all the cement players I'll be very clear that we have to also find a way to cater to the OPC market. While our core strength of the company is to make changes in the consumer buying behavior and trade segment to move from [indiscernible] cement or [indiscernible] cement to blended cement. But it will be a journey with all the cement industries. They have today keeping sustainability in mind. It's 1 of the huge sustainability goes for the [indiscernible] cement industry in India. So more and more players are moving away from the [indiscernible] the blended cement. As you would have seen from Madhumita speech, our carbon footprint has come at 464 kg so CO2 per tonne of cement, which indeed is the almost the lowest level of numbers which are happening India, certain wise, internationally also, there is a kind of number which is extremely [indiscernible] level, India average is 580, India average
[Technical Difficulty]
We will take our next question from the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities.
8 First question is on our expansion plans. In the past, you've kind of alluded to a range of INR 3,500 crores to INR 4,000-odd crores of net debt to kind of start working on expansion, we've almost touching that range. So just want to know where what is the status, how prepared we are? And when are we kind of looking to explore brownfield expansion opportunity?
[indiscernible] would appreciate the consistency of leadership is to kind of demonstrate sustained performance over a period of time. So while we're very proud at reaching [ 40 34 ] INR 30 crores of debt as we committed in each of the calls in the last 2 years. We just want to be very clear that we should not be selling victories, but certainly, it has to be somewhat sustained. So we are in no hurry to kind of expand in the next 1 month because we've got headroom of close to about 7 million tonnes. So you've got adequate even if we have adequate growth in the industry we should be able to grow in line with the industry in the coming 2 years. So we just want to wait and watch in the coming quarter or so? And once we are very confident with the stable prices and market uptake and the overall debt levels of the company has sustained at this level will come up with the expansion plan. Needless to say that at the back end, we're already working on identifying what are the design, what would be the capacity, which is the location, what is the ballpark number, what should be design [indiscernible]. Those works are all happening. There are appropriate time, we'll come back to come and make an announcement on what's the exact time frame when we do an baking.
Okay. Understood. Understood. Sir, in terms of not capacity, we've been I mean consistently maintaining that we are gaining market share there. And if I look at few of the peers, a few companies are reporting upwards of 90% utilization. So is it possible to share what sort of utilization did we run the plant on an average for FY '24?
North you see we have to really look at it full year because our new capacities came in December, Jan. But if I were to kind of extrapolate the overall not number without taking the Diwali planned into consideration where we are operating close to about 90% capacity utilization. But with the Diwali festival coming in, as Mitas said in a speech within a very short period of time, capacity it increased to 60% of the name plate capacity. At the full year, we are operating north of about 80%, but still we have headroom. In terms of capacity terms, we have 6 million tonnes of capacity few months of this year, we already touched 4 lakh tonnes, 4.2 lakh tonnes per month. So I guess, during the course of FY '25, we should be very close to 60 million tonnes at over 90% capacity cation in 1, 2 quarters.
Okay. Understood. And sir, with respect to the...
SP1 Sorry. So Masa, Q4, it says not capacity utilization was 89%. So there is an upward trend there.
Okay. On the expanded capacity, 89%. Okay. Okay. I just -- can I have 1 last question on the East?
Yes, go ahead.
Yes. I just want to understand, I mean, at least, I mean, from the numbers it appeared that we have been losing market share because full year, if you've been growing in North. And if you look at other peers, neatly, you are sharing that the market has been growing. I know there could be some issues in particular states where we have high exposure. I mean is it possible to share some more state-wise color just to appreciate or understand better what is the issue with Eastern demand for us versus a few peers, I mean in terms of different state-wide exposures.
Yes. First of all, there is no issue in need. Very clear as far as Neocis concerned, we are clear about what we wanted to do, what our plans are, what is the execution in needs. We are very satisfied with the approach we took and the results we achieved in the East region. If you really look at the whole year in a really look at 12 months and come into some kind of judgment and inference. The prices in the East was tepid at the beginning of the year. And 1 of the primary objective for Novuco is to kind of debt leverage, improve realization, get the EBITDA [indiscernible]. And in all the past calls, the [indiscernible] strategy for the company is value over growth. That was a cornerstone of what we were doing.
Having said that, even in this, if you see at the beginning of the year, April FY '24 when it came to October, by price happened, come January price ended and kind of end of the year, exit price in East was almost less than the entry price in the fiscal year. That's how the price movement happened. But even in the price moment, [indiscernible] be desired divided into 2 parts: the core demand consuming states of Behar, [indiscernible] and [indiscernible], and the less in the past, less realization stage of [indiscernible] and [indiscernible].
What happened in is somewhat unique. The state of [indiscernible] saw a handsome growth and we participated in the growth and got good growth in this state. But the 3 states of Bihar, [indiscernible] and [indiscernible], were the 3 states where growth was somewhat muted. But more important was the pricing in those states was really at, I won't say historical low, but certainly, in the last 24 months, the prices prevailed in these 3 states were very low. We are very clear contribution margin improvement of the strategy for the company so we focused on these 2 states to kind of mop up maximum contribution, but did not want to give up volumes on the other 3 states, we kind of ensure that we fed the market, retained our alloy customers and ensured that the trade benefits of working with Novoco. That's been the overall deployment plan last year.
Having said that, things in March look different. Growth somewhat happened in Bengal, Bihar and [indiscernible]. And going forward in FY '25, post elections, we see an uptick of demand -- overall demand and prices to be and cost has more or less bottomed out and soft end, so it's no longer going to be a difficult scenario. And financially, debt-wise, leverage-wise, we are also in a comfortable position. So we have [indiscernible] leveraged as well as the elbow room to kind of manual ever the market where we want to [indiscernible], we will see us participating a little bit more aggressive resins in the next year to get growth going for the company in East as well.
Got it. Just 1 last question. Do we work with exclusive dealers? And if yes, I mean, what sort of numbers do we have?
Very difficult for me to rate our exclusive dealers in this call. But may I request you to reach out to Investor Relations, they will give you all the details on delta-wise dealer profile exclusive multi-brand outlets all those data are available. I wouldn't be able to explain to you in this call.
We'll take our next question from the line of Navin Sahadeo. from ICICI Securities.
sir. Am I audible?
Yes, please go ahead. Can you use your handset more, please?
Yes. Could you just speak a little more loudly?
Yes. Is it better now, sir?
Yes.
Yes.
Sir, on the pricing front, our realizations got hit by over 8% sequentially. I wanted to understand if the current prices are in April month gone by, did we see any improvement or because I would like to believe exit for March would have been lower versus the quarter average. So if you could just give us some color as to directionally how are we into this -- into the fiscal FY '25 so far in terms of pricing versus the March quarter that is reported.
Hardly 30 days since we started the quarter, but all the same price size did happen in the month of quarter. North have been no as same as Q4, but East is, we're seeing close to about INR 810 per bank improvement in price in gross and GST lease. So things are improving in the east. We expect things will further improve going forward.
Helpful. Sir, you clearly mentioned about the fuel cost sustaining at these levels for the company. But on the freight cost per tonne, is that also a sustainable number? Or with the railway rigs coming in, we could see further improvement.
In the call, we spoke about our edge Bridge 2.0. Bridge 2.0 covers 3, 4 key agendas for the company, which is into cost efficiency program, second one is power and fuel cost optimization, third one is distribution cost reduction and last 1 is overall productivity improvement through extra volume growth in the organization. All this, we're targeting close to about INR 50 per tonne next year over this year. So 1 of the key focus areas is to reduce or sustain the current distribution cost. There are 2, 3 projects, which we are currently working.
If you recall, our CapEx last year had [indiscernible] Sunadi and [indiscernible] also know that we were moving clinker out of Liza into a third-party unit and then from the load into [indiscernible]. Starting April, we have stopped -- April 1, we stopped the onsite clicker loading because [indiscernible] is almost ready.and in the next -- in the -- by the end of Q1, early -- sorry, Q2, we will have 100% commissioning of the second [indiscernible]. All our clinker movement will be retired and on the road movement will go away. In addition [indiscernible] setting should also come up in H1 and this year. So once the [indiscernible] soaring happens, all our movement of clinker will happen only by rigs. So that indeed would reduce the overall distribution cost by a substantial amount in H2 onwards.
Added to that is that in the speech, Nita covered that our focus is going to be on maximizing sales in market, trying and sell cement and 150-kilometer radius in the East and the [indiscernible] radius areas in the north. I mean this would basically be a key trustee. And the third trust area is to increase the direct discusses from the company improved by 5% to 8% over this year's actual. All this has an [indiscernible] either reducing distribution costs over last year's action, or at best neutralize [indiscernible] potential increase in fuel rates happen going forward. But as of now, we are targeting decent ton of savings in distribution costs in FY '23 over FY '24.
Great, sir, very encouraging. Just a confirmation, rather a clarification to the previous participant's question about CapEx. So did you mention that you will be like watchful or the company will be watchful of the debt situation for a couple of more months before committing to any other CapEx or a couple of more quarters?
I never mentioned a couple of quarters or couple of months. All I said was in the coming future, I would like to be confident that the debt numbers and the overall operating numbers, which delivered, we want to sustain it. So it could be a quarter or 2 quarters, but once we are confident that the system is oiled and demand in the market is also sustaining the overall appetite for the company, we should come up and make announcement. Overall, if you see all these plants will be set up in 18, 24 months. So a quarter here and there is not going to change the overall performance of the company.
But certainly, what we -- if the capacity coming up is going to hamper the growth of the company, your point is valid, but we still have approved not as as east kind of out of 25 million tonnes, we did 8.8 million tonnes. So even a double-digit growth for the next 2 years, we will be able to have capacity well into FY '27. Certainly by the time our plant will come. And in the previous calls, I've been speaking about the location of the plant. We are really gravitating towards north, brownfield capacity coming up in North India. With that require landstone available with us. So the focus will be to grow in North and West, and that's how the company's future expansion plan has started.
we will take our next question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Yes. So my first question is when we are saying that we have enough headroom for the growth and North has mentioned that 89% utilization in fourth quarter, including the [indiscernible]. So in FY '25, and also we mentioned that we want to grow at 7% in FY '25. So clarify if I'm making a mistake. So how much volume growth are we looking at? And from where it can come? North is already at 89%. So incremental, whatever the 5%, 7%, 8% volume growth that we are looking at, is it more from the East? And if we have which states would be more to contribute the growth?
Yes, Shravan, very nice machine, mathematically, you've asked this [indiscernible] how will the growth happen. So let me give you a little bit more detail to the statement, which Mita made. So capacity is branding capacity and clinker capacity. And when the 89% is coming out of the overall clinical capacity utilization in the company, and you would know, in FY '24, Nimble factory got commissioned in Q2 end and then we had a [indiscernible] nimble capacity. But Divani has got into full mode. Nimble has got a 6,000 TPD line, the expansion plan of 6,000 TPD and Chitra 6,000 TPD, both put together is about 4 million tonnes, a ratio of 1.5, we have 6 million tonnes. So there will be sufficient headroom for us to grow in line with the market, assuming the general industry viewers -- GDP is 7%, industry is likely to grow 7% to 8%. So we also will be participating in this industry GDP ratio growth in north, certainly at East.
So we don't see a major challenge in getting the growth. Last but not the least, there was a question about what is [indiscernible] mix in the blended cement mix? We always have a lever to shift from OTC to blended cement to maximize the volume numbers. So that's been the DNA of the company. So going forward as well to get the adequate revenue growth, if real estate is very good with [indiscernible] cement, we'll go get more money. If blended cement is selling and we're able to get volume growth, EBITDA will come through volume growth as well. So that's real participate in the market, but the strategy will be to get highest capacity utilization.
Tactics will always be quarter-to-quarter based on the market and the portfolio will be [indiscernible] by the management team on how to participate in the market based on the actual happenings in the marketplace. So we are pretty confident to hit equal or other industry level growth in FY '25.
Okay. And just to clarify, this INR 50 cost savings in FY '25, this is from the Q4 FY '24 number or from FY '24 numbers?
How was you should have been running our company because this -- you said at the best quarter the best quarter by INR 50, but we are very realistic here. It is average FY '24 versus average FY '25. This is a cost improvement on a Y-o-Y basis for the full year.
Okay. Okay. Got it. Second, on the expansion and then the CapEx. So by next, let's say -- I put the question another way. Till what max -- how many quarters can we wait to announce the expansion at the north? Next 2, 3 quarters, can we wait? So ultimately, are we looking at the COB to be happening in FY '27 and not in FY '26? And if so, broadly the previously, we talked about closer to INR 1,400 crores kind of a CapEx for this. So that number remains the same?
Yes, the number remains the same. Size of the line will hold a little bit of a change based on our final strategy and market growth and where the [indiscernible] grinding unit will come. So we are really looking at either a 6,000 PPD line of the 7,000 PPD line. That's where it is gravitating. So the overall CapEx outlay may undergo a change based on the size of the line we are putting in. But overall, we are looking at anywhere between $70 to $85 per tonne CapEx cost.
In terms of how many quarters, I need to wait. I will they ask you, I will comment on when it happens. I read as to give me time. As I said very clearly, we want to be very comfortable with the numbers at the full year level. We have got in terms of relocation or in terms of EBITDA or in terms of debt levels or in terms of [indiscernible], number of agendas, which we have. Having said that, I'm not going to set a time limit for myself and say, a quarter from now or 2 quarters from the I will compensate. But suffice to say, during the course of this year, we will certainly come up with an expansion plan.
So without this, CapEx, absolute CapEx for FY '25 and '26 will be how much?
I think we are going to be very clear because right now, the big projects, which we started last year, if you remember in the last call, you were asking about what were the FY '24 CapEx numbers. Last year, we ended CapEx at INR 579 crores. But out of those, the big projects were basically nimble expansion, reserve expansion, [indiscernible], Jajpur and Bhiwani expansion. All of them [indiscernible] completed, [indiscernible] completed, Bhiwani is completed the siding as Sonata and Jajpur are underway. So by the end of Q1, latest by Q2, all this entering projects -- ongoing projects will be completed. So technically speaking, we don't have big expansion CapEx in the first 6 to 8 months of the company. And whenever we announce the plan, that's when the CapEx going up. So really targeting anywhere been INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores in pursue of things which come from unspent the CapEx really comes from the previous year as the overall CapEx outlay for FY '25 at this point of time.
It last data point, sir, or lead distance for fourth quarter CC ratio for fourth quarter and AFR [indiscernible] fourth quarter for fy '24?
[indiscernible] magical 340 kilometers, both primary and secondary put together. And in terms of AFR percentage in Q4, we did [indiscernible] and in the coming years, we are targeting a little bit more couple of kills the under refurbishment shutdown in Q4 and AFR percentage came down to 12%. Otherwise, in Q3, we were at [indiscernible]. We expect to increase this number by 2%, 3% full year average this year. And the third question of...
CC ratio for fourth quarter?
CC ratio at Q4 came at 1.74%. And FY '25, we are really looking at it anywhere we were been 1.76%, 1.8%.
We'll take our next question from the line of Satyadeep Jain from AMBIT Capital.
The value over volume strategy appears to have paid off this year. So congratulations to the management team on that. Just wanted to dig deeper into that strategy, I had a few questions on that. So it seems like if I understand correctly, the pricing environment was better in certain micro markets like Orisa [indiscernible] not so much in other markets like Jharkhand and West Bengal. And the intent of the company is to maximize the contribution margin. Overall, it does appear to me from the outside that you're indicating, if you had sold in some of these micro markets, your contribution margin would have been negative if the intent is to maximize overall contribution margin. Is that clear? So that I had a few questions on that. If this 1 is understand if my understanding is correct.
So certainly not negative contribution because if you really run the business, you're really looking at [indiscernible] EBITDA comes at INR 853 for the year and over -- and add to that the way numbers are looking at a contribution of INR 1500, INR 1,450 crores, INR 1600 kind of number at different markets, so a different product portfolio. But contribution margin will leverage, we can't get contribution zero margins at any point of time. Contribution margin can be INR 700, INR 800. But I think by selling a INR 700 and resultant EBITDA coming to INR 100 or INR 120, doesn't make any enough point of view. We do think it was something which is accretive to the overall strategy of the company. But certainly, I think it's not a 1-quarter gain for us. Certainly, it's a long-term objective. We also don't want to kind of push bottom end product, we want to continue to have our premiumization. We don't want to take on the discount levels kind of to get additional sales. So those have been the various levers we were. And also certain states, the overall pricing came very low. We really didn't want to kind of compete with other players to get by dropping price and [indiscernible] volume. So we have to maintain our [indiscernible] So our product [indiscernible] still continues to hold a premium over the next best player in the industry. Our base product is still top end product in the eastern category. So we don't want to dilute our pricing position in the market.
Okay. Just say, I had a couple of questions on that. So fundamentally, first, I wanted to understand, my understanding was that basically these are all fungible markets, let's say your margin is higher in 1 market, over other everybody would move volumes to that higher margin market. So overall, it would come to a balance. So is that something that has not been playing out in this year? That's the first question. That shift of volume happened only for you, but otherwise for everybody else, they were not moving that incremental volume to this higher-margin market. Secondly, it would be that it seems like the intent was to operate at a bare minimum level in these markets, which had lower margin, whereas it seems like others were operating, we're trying to take that market share, even operate at lower margin. when the volume comes back, let's say, if you see the margin coming back this year, those players are already serving those customers. Would it be when you go back into the market and try to get back some of these volumes that you decided to walk away in this year. How do you in that kind of scenario go back and take that share that was fundamentally strategically wanted to understand how these things play out?
Look, it's very -- I don't want to comment on what other companies are doing and what is their plan and how are they working on this because it's a national market and whatever growth numbers people declare or our blended growth numbers for all the regions in the country. [indiscernible] also, since we have only 2 regions we participate. So we're very clear about what we did in our Noth and center and what we did not East. So we kind of have a majority need -- so overall exposure needs the size, so the numbers came out the day is common in terms of volumes. So the companies have probably have [indiscernible] with similar capacities or substantial capacity and that's the reason for them to get an [indiscernible] India number. That's the first center for not kind of comparing us with other companies and what they are planning to do.
As regards to the question where you said that if we designed not to sell what will happen to trade and they walk away from the trade. In this industry, there is always an influx of new dealers who get appointed. There are dealers who move away from the fold, and there is a constant churn which happens in the industry, people who work with me today or work with some other company, people who work with some other company come to us at some stage.
So losing a channel, in my opinion, is not something which will -- is a long-term stuff, we'll always go at the channel whenever we want to do. So in FY '25, the goal for all our sales guide is to get contract channels at the appropriate markets to get [indiscernible] of no in almost all the markets. As regards promoting our products and our brand, I guess, our brand pool is equally strong. Consumers want our products and then things have bought of [indiscernible] by the name of our brand in most of the [indiscernible]. So it's a strategy which we deployed in FY '24. In FY '25, we still want to be a little bit more aggressive in the market to get volumes, and you will see it play out in the market going forward.
We have our next question from the line of Sanjay Nandi from VT Capital.
Hello.
Mr. Nandi, my I request you to use the handset, please?
Am I audible.
Yes, please go ahead.
Yes. Yes. Sir, most of the questions got answered. Okay.
Do you want to ask any additional question or you're through?
No.
We'll take our next question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Yes. Sir, what was of fuel mix to imported coal and domestic sales for this quarter?
6 Yes. Just a second. You're asking for the quarter or the full year?
Quarter, quarter, Q4 FY '24.
Q4 overall linkage coal came at 23% and non-linked as domestic open market at 11%, imported coal 1%, [indiscernible] 52% and then [indiscernible] 12%.
Okay. Got it. Second, sir, I just wanted to clarify, when you said INR 8 to INR 10 price improvement in [indiscernible]. So is this across 5 states of [indiscernible], it is more like a -- only Bihar has seen a sizable hike in April?
It's a broad-based price increase means.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Madhumita Basu for closing comments. Over to you, ma'am.
Thank you, [indiscernible]. As we move forward, we remain optimistic on the demand outlook as a significant portion of infrastructure programs and under execution by the government. We will continue to focus on premiumization, year optimization, [indiscernible] optimization, brand strengthening and cost efficiency. By executing on these strategic focus areas, Nuvoco is poised to deliver sustained growth and value creation for its shareholders and stakeholders in the year to come. We will remain available for any clarification required do please reach out to our investor management sale. Thank you for joining us today.
Thank you, members of the management team. On behalf of Nuvoco Vistas Corporation Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.