Remedy Entertainment Oyj

OMXH:REMEDY

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q3

[Elina Petäjäjärvi, executive]

Okay. I think it's 2:00 now. So hello, everyone, and thank you for joining Remedy Entertainment webinar. My name is Elina Petajajarvi and I am a member of the Remedy Investor Relations team. Today, we will go through Remedy's business review for January - September 2022. With me are Tero Virtala, Remedy CEO; and Terhi Kauppi, Remedy CFO. We will have a Q&A session after the presentation. Okay, Tero, the floor is yours.

[Tero Virtala, executive]

Okay, Elina. Thank you, and hello, everyone, and welcome also on my behalf. So straight on to our quarter 3. In our third quarter, our revenue grew by 7% to EUR 7.9 million, EBITDA decreased to minus EUR 2.3 million and operating profit to minus EUR 3 million. The decrease in profitability was mainly due to increased external development costs, especially related to Alan Wake II and Codename Condor. Terhi, our CFO, will a bit later discuss more detail on the financials. And as you all know, in August, during quarter 3, we also had to lower our outlook for this year, and this was due to lower-than-expected gained royalties this year and our decision to take extra time to develop game Codename Vanguard. We decided still to keep the game longer in the current proof-of-concept phase and postpone the expansion of the development team until next year. This was done in order to give the team the time required to really design, prototype and test the key elements of this big game before we move on to the phase where we also will need a larger team. In September, we also announced a new option plan directed to the key persons of Remedy. We have had a similar model now for years, and it's one of the important tools we have in our use in this highly competed talent market to really get deep and reward our worker's talent. But overall, in the third quarter, our main focus has definitely been on the 5 games we have in development. We will make these 5 games, the excellent games they can become as we know that each one of them has the potential to be a major success one day in the future. Then as you have seen from our project portfolio, during the past years, we have successfully built our multi-project model. Our game development capabilities are in good shape. Our financial position is strong, and we have the right business partners for each of the 5 games we are developing. Four of these games, namely Condor, Heron, Alan Wake II and Vanguard, they are all based on Remedy owned brands, and one of these games, Max Payne, is based on an external brand but has a great strategic fit to us. With our current gate road map and strengthened development capabilities, we are planning to launch at least one new game per year from '23 to '25, accompanied, then in addition by additional free and sellable content. Then if we have a closer look on each of these 5 games, first, game codename Condor. So this is the 4-player coop player versus environment game, a spinoff of Control. Condor continues our collaboration with 505 Games that was started with Control. But this time, with the model that supports Remedy to also take next steps in the gaming industry value chain. So we, Remedy, we are developing the game, of course, but we are also cofinancing and copublishing it with 505 Games. Condor as a development project continues in the proof-of-concept stage, with good progress so far. Our development team has clearly found clever ways how we are utilizing the viral world of Control, with game designs that clearly give an interesting cooperative game play experience that fits well into the world of Control. And these designs in a service-based games, there are many designs that need to fit together, but the designs are now being prototyped, and the gateway already in this early phase, feels on. And why I'm saying this is that the question, "Does the game feel fun?" It's one of the key questions for any game, and quest for finding the fun in game development at times takes a long time. And the longer it takes, the more uncertainty and risk it builds for the projects in the later stages. So finding the recipe for fun with core game play already this early phase has been a very positive and good achievement from our Condor team. Naturally, the game is still in a proof-of-concept phase, so still, there are unproven efforts and a lot of work still ahead of us. We are giving the team time to work on a multitude of important game designs, and finalize the key pillars before we move the project to the next development phase. Then Codename Heron, the other game in the world of Control. This is the bigger budget Control game. We have already agreed the high-level collaboration terms with our partner, 505 Games, for the Control. Game is currently in the early phases in concept stage but has advanced well. And actually, based on this well progressing early development, the team size has already gradually been increased. We will still keep the team in a moderate size in this early phase and give the time needed to continue concepting and again, prototyping the game designs. The Heron team is also in collaboration with our Northlight team, developing selected technologies and tools that we see are needed to realize the ambitious vision that we have with Heron. Then of course, we have Alan Wake II. This is the long awaited sequel to the award winning 2010 psychological thriller. The sequel Alan Wake II builds on many of the strengths that already existed with Alan Wake, but also brings new elements and takes Alan Wake as an IP to next levels. Alan Wake II is a survival horror game, with Remedy's take on what survival horror is. We are partnering with Epic Games on this game. Game is in full production and will be launched as planned in 2023. There is still work to be done, but the game is coming together on all fronts at the moment. User testing continues, and the feedback so far from the user research has been encouraging. And when I'm personally looking at the game as it is and how it's coming together, I'm confident to say that in 2023, we will launch an excellent game. Then we have game Codename Vanguard in development. Our free-to-play cooperative multiplayer game, service-based game. This is cofinanced and copublished with our partner Tencent. The game continues in the proof-of-concept stage. And overall, Vanguard as a service-based free-to-play game will be a game which has a rich world and also selected new elements that will make this game a multiplayer game that stands out from all the other multiplayer games out there. Some of the designs that are needed for that, they are already clear. Some are still taking shape, clarifying. We, of course, have the designs in place, but it's highly important that the team prototypes and tests all these designs before we then move into next phases. It's a big overall service-based game. We want to make sure that all these different elements merge together in the right way before we then move into the next phases and are sure that then it's all time more about execution than design and planning. Then -- the most recent one of our game projects is Max Payne 1 and 2 Remake, Max Payne: The Fall of Max Payne and the original iconic Max Payne. These games, they are published by Rockstar Games, with whom we have a partnership. And definitely, Max Payne fits well with many of our strengths as a studio and also has good business potential with well-managed risks towards us. Our team is still in the early phases developing the game, and also utilizing quite effectively our production and technology synergies from our different projects, and also developing certain ones that the other projects can utilize. We are in the early concept phase in this -- with this game. And then, in a way, after the projects, a few words on our people because as we have been emphasizing a number of times, at the heart of Remedy our world class talents, our people. We have continued successfully our recruitments, keeping the bar all the time high. We now have 360 people. We are, all the time, taking further the ways how we can onboard, support, develop our people, and with these people, build high-performing game teams. There is an additional aspect, actually, in relation to people on which I have been happy and also relieved in relation to year 2022. As we all know, fortunately, during this year, COVID, and especially the restrictions related to it, have started to ease. Having discussed with many other companies in technology sector and of course, in gaming, many companies have this year see it higher amounts of levers as well. In a highly competed talent market, people always have new opportunities if they want to pursue those. And during COVID times, it seems that the related uncertainties, it seems that a bit more of these people who may have had interest to change jobs have actually delayed those plans and stayed with their existing employers and jobs. Now when the world is again opening up, many companies, with whom we have discussed, have seen a bit higher amount of levers, like the 2 years of COVID had accumulated potential levers who have not left and now, in a way, that accumulation is realizing. We also, at Remedy, saw that as a risk earlier this year, in a way, hearing these information from other companies, but have been investing into our people and people processes, ways of working for years. We have taken all these elements further this year. And looking now at our first 9 months of '22, I'm really happy that we haven't seen any drastic changes or spikes of levers, and we have been able to really keep our balance. And then on top of that, when the recruitment works, we have been able to continue recruiting, getting new top talent, and we have seen that all the time in the growing number of talents, which, as I said, is now 360. We also have our second studio now in Stockholm, Sweden. It's in operation, and we are selectively step-by-step growing. Now while our own talents, more and more focused on the most crucial parts of the games we have in development, we complement these with external development partners that bring to us their special expertise and also allow us to scale up the productions when needed. We are seeking all the time for good partners who can bring us valuable competencies, give us scalability affiliated and most of all, help us execute our game projects in the intended scale, time and quality. In 2021 or early '21, we have raised capital to be able to invest into games in which we see major future potential. The increase in this external development is part of these well-planned investments. And we are, all the time, continuing to expand external development capabilities in a managed way. However, now it's no longer just expanding. We have been able to build the partners and learn and develop our ways of working, and this continues, but our capabilities in this are now in a level that we can really collaborate much better with our partners and also utilize these external development partners well for the benefit of our games. And all these, our own talents, our expansion in Sweden, Stockholm and our external development, it all supports us to develop our games, our 5 games, and one day launch them successfully and reach our long-term "objectives".

But this is my part, and let's now talk more on financials, and I'll hand over to Terhi.

[Terhi Kauppi, executive]

Thank you, Tero. And yes, good afternoon also to everyone on my behalf. Let's take a little bit deeper look into our quarter 3 final sales. Overall, we had revenue growth. The growth was 6.8% year-on-year. And the composition of our revenue was such that we had 95% of the total development fees, and 5% of the total revenue was royalties. The development fees year-on-year grew by 38%. And the growth was driven mainly by Alan Wake II and Max Payne Remake projects. Then the decrease in royalties was 80%, and that's mainly due to the fact that Control game is not anymore creating such amounts of royalties than a year ago, and we did not receive any royalties from Cross Fire or from Alan Wake Remastered.

Then looking at more historical perspective and also the year-to-date numbers. During this year, we have had quite good revenue growth overall, over 20%, and that's like EUR 5 million more of revenue year-to-date than 1 year ago. And when looking at the full year or this 9 months that we have behind us, we have now about 11% of royalties from total revenue, whereas in comparison period last year that was 29%. And our development fees have been growing over 50%, whereas also the royalties have been decreasing by 53%. And also here, as seen from the graph, the quarter 4 '21 figures, they're very high due to the development fees received to compensate the past work for Vanguard and the Alan Wake II scope increase. So going forward, we have exceptionally high comparison figures ahead of us. Then about the profitability. And yes, as said, there has been a drop, and the quarter 3 EBIT was minus EUR 3 million. That's minus 38% of revenue. Whereas in the comparison period, we had only a slightly negative EBIT level. And the increase in the external development costs impacted the profitability level. This was expected, planned and important investment for us. Also, the composition of revenue just explained, with the lower royalty share, impacts the EBIT level. Then looking at a little bit components behind the EBIT. The external development fees, without taking into account the netting effect of the capitalization, they increased by EUR 2 million year-on-year to EUR 4.5 million, and that's like 74% more than a year ago. And the main drivers for this were the projects Alan Wake II and Condor, where we use significant amounts of outsourcing. Then the personnel expenses had a slight 5% increase, despite the increase of over 12% in personnel overall. And this is explained by a lower level of bonus accrual since we have accrued a lesser amount of EBIT than a year ago at this time. And the capitalizations were also at lower level of 19% compared into quarter 3. And the capitalizations are driven by capitalization percentages defined per project. So there is some variation over time. Our cash level and operating cash flow are at a good level. The operating cash flow was on about similar level as in the comparison period, EUR 4.7 million, but to remind us and also seen in the graph, there is quarterly variation. The total cash level is about at the same level than a year ago, so EUR 63 million. And we have been able to maintain a good cash position, and that allows us to invest into good quality games as planned. And when we raised the funds from the market in the early '21, the intention was exactly this, we secure the cash position and enable investing in our own games. And that's what we have done, and that is now visible in the numbers, as predicted. So the current profitability level, as said, is impacted by increased investments to product development, especially our own IPs. And by composition of revenue, so the lower level of royalties. But overall, we see the possibilities for our top line growth and improved profitability in the long run. That in mind, we make operatively wise decisions, although in the short term, this impacts our numbers because with a strong cash position, we build up basis for the long-term success. And a couple of slides about our portfolio and the long-term opportunities, again. So we have a balanced portfolio -- the -- sorry, there is a delay. So first of all, we have this subcontracting type agreements currently with Rockstar Games. We are working there with the partner IP. And we are, in a way, offsetting the discontinued operations project with this. We are also working with 505 Games and Epic in a model where we own the IP and the publishing parts -- partner funds the development, either fully or partly, and then we share the game sales profit.

And we are taking steps towards the self-publishing, but in a risk-controlled manner. And we are now first starting with copublishing, like with Project Condor and Vanguard, and these are IPs owned by Remedy. And we do not yet have any projects where we would be self-publishing fully, but this is a future opportunity. Then what does this mean in terms of timing and in terms of revenue potential? We're talking about this partner IP projects, during the development phase, already, we normally have a margin. So that's already as such, a good business for us. And then additionally, we also have possibility to gain some royalties, but to somewhat lesser extent than in the models where we partner with our publisher and we build up the games based on our own IP. Then during the development phases, there is variation on how profitable is that during that phase. And clearly, the fuller, higher profitability possibilities are in the game sales and the royalties. Then when we are moving into more copublishing model, we are investing more ourselves, but also we have a higher potential in terms of royalties. And yes, we do not yet have the self-publishing model, but there, clearly, the pure potential in terms of profitability is in the game sales royalties. And in regards to timing, we can see that the more we have projects towards copublishing, self-publishing, the longer it takes for us to really benefit out of the games and these royalties. And also, it's good to know that depending on a publisher agreement, there might be a recouping element before the royalties are paid out. Yes. So please, Tero, you can continue now from here.

[Tero Virtala, executive]

Okay. Thank you. So based on all this, our outlook, as we announced in the early part of quarter 3 in August, with the updated outlook is that we are expecting our revenue to remain at the previous 2021 years level, and operating results to decline significantly compared to year '21. And as a comparison in '21, our revenue was EUR 44.7 million, for an operating profit EUR 11.4 million. We now have the organization, capabilities and also the partners to develop the current 5 games we are working on. Full focus of the whole company is now to develop these games into the excellent games they will become. And when done, by talented people that we have, in well working teams, with the support that we now, as a company, can provide to world-class creative and technology game projects. Each one of these games has appeal to be a major success. And we will have a steady flow of successful game launches starting from next year, 2023. And our long-term objectives, they remain the same. By '25 -- by year '25, we have created several successful games and at least one major hit game, a game that creates the global top selling charts and can therefore succeed. We have the unique creative skills and can create world character stories that build powerful brands. We will own at least 3 expanding game brands, all with long term hit potentials. We also will have commercial capabilities so that we, ourselves, can select the right commercial model for each of our future games. For some, it might be self-financing, for some self-publishing, working with publishing partners for others. And great people definitely continue to be a key focus for us. We aim to be the most attractive gaming industry employer in Europe. And as has been said, we aim to reach each of these objectives while having a profitable and growing business in which we also manage our risks well. But that's it from our part, as a presentation. And now it's time for Q&A. Maybe we'll first take the ones that have been sent. Sorry, we need to dive in a bit deeper to see them.

[Tero Virtala, executive]

Okay. So the first question is that in the second quarter report, it was mentioned that Condor was moving towards preproduction. Now it's still in a proof-of-concept phase, has there been some delay with the project? Condor has been progressing as has been planned. So as was said in the question, in a way, it's all the time moving towards preproduction. And as I just explained in the presentation, there have been a lot of good developments happening in Condor. And now we are following our internal stage game process where the projects are moving from concept to preproduction to next phases after that. And it's in our own hands to decide when we let the project to move forward. And typically, in a way, when moving on from preproduction, in a way, always after that point, there are still some open questions and uncertainties. We can't innovate at the security on all the different designs, and it's our only valuation that what's the level of open questions or uncertainties that we still accept after that phase, in a way, some companies, I know they are quite loose in this type of evaluations. I think in the past, we have also been loser -- in a way, more lose. We have been more loose in letting projects to proceed. But one of the learnings that we have had why we are nowadays much stricter in evaluating projects in these early phases is that the more we can freely prototype and in concrete ways evaluate and validate in the playable field in these early phases, the less surprises and delays, which are then, in a way, slower to solve and require much more investment in the later phases we will have. So now with Condor, the progress I would say, overall, has been good with the game. We have been happy on the work that the team has been doing. We are kind of like all the time moving, in a way, towards the actual preproduction phase, but we are still, in a way, requiring the team to pull certain key designs so that we can lock them, and when we move on, we are certain that, in a way, those questions will not again come to us when the team is bigger and the investments are already higher. Then a second question was that any update on Alan Wake Remastered sales figures? No. No, in a way, concrete update. We haven't or Epic hasn't shared those numbers publicly. But as we said in a way,, the sales are progressing along our old forecast, but the game has yet recouped and we haven't yet received royalties. We are expecting that the bigger, in a way, sales phases will start happening once at some point, in a way, Alan Wake II gets into a phase where it has more marketing, more visibility and then one day when it's out in the market. Then a question that what are the biggest risks and possible issues in the 5 games that you are developing? Well, in a way,, all of these games, they are ambitious games. There are, in a way -- what we are aiming to do with all of these games is that they have to be excellent games, but all of them also need to bring in elements that make them stand out, make them unique in the market. So there are new elements in each of these games. And typically, in our type of games, it's really not finding the design. The designs we find, that they are quite clear, in a way, the creative parts, but being able to execute, implement those, in a way, that the entity feels really good and fun to play and then be able to do those in a manageable budget and schedule, that's always the big question. So I wouldn't, in a way, in that sense, maybe start outlining individual issues with each of the projects. Maybe a topic that is good to highlight that we have now spent 6 years in building our multi-project model. And now the organization capabilities, partnerships start to be in place that we really have a functionable multi-project model. There are a number of other gaming companies that at the moment are aiming to build this same model. It will take for them years. It's a challenging model for many to build. I'm really happy what we have been able to do. And now in relation to our games, what we need to pay attention too is that in order to get these synergies from the multi-project model, we need to be quite decisive and strict in keeping the game projects long enough in the early phases, not only for the sake of an individual game, we need to do that for the individual game that we have, the design is clear, in a way, prototype-proven, so that when we move on, we could be more certain that we don't face big fundamental changes later in the development cycle of that game because then it's going to take more time and more money. But there is the additional reason that if we face that type of situations later in the life cycle, then, in a way, the time to develop that game will be longer, and people will be in that game project longer, so freeing up them for the next projects we have in the pipeline will take a longer time. So there is the risk of this type of cascading effect. And that's also one of the reasons why we have learned and we are paying a lot of attention in the early phases of the game development and games that we now have in development. Then maybe Terhi, to you, the next one.

[Terhi Kauppi, executive]

Yes. Regarding the fluctuations, both in income royalties, et cetera, and in costs, external development costs, for example, could you consider giving better forward-looking guidance on those in order to avoid surprises, which now seem to be coming or at least perceived to be surprises? So overall, what we have said about our cost level and the investments, we have said for a long time, and especially after we raised the EUR 40 million from the market, that we will be investing heavily in our own IPs. And in practice, what it mean is that we will recruit more people, and we will use more external development. And to really increase those is a rather sort of a steady upwards ongoing process. But then, what is affecting the profitability shifts on a quarterly basis is really much the timing of the revenues. And it means the timing of the development fees and the timing of the royalties. And yes, the quarterly numbers are fluctuating. And we have said many times already that, that is happening, and that will happen. And we have given the guidance for the market for the full year -- for the full financial year. And that is what we are forecasting, and that's what we are keeping our eyes on. So on a quarterly basis, we do not give the guidance.

[Tero Virtala, executive]

Okay. Then, regarding self-publishing, what kind of funding cash level -- what kind of funding or cash level would that require? And assuming that those are much higher, how would you describe those needed financial muscles? And how do you see acquiring those needed financial muscles? Well, we now have the 5 games in development, and our full focus is on those. And these 5 games don't yet include all self-publishing or funding. So in that sense, in a way, it would be a question for some of our future games later in the future. And I'm not going to speculate too much on that. But in a way, when interested on the levels, we have said that on average, in a way, our game budgets are between EUR 30 million to EUR 60 million. And then on top of that comes, in a way, the marketing investments. And typically, when the games are service-based games, they will require also additional development budgets after the first launch. So yes, definitely in our type of games, the, in a way, financial investments needed for full self-financing and self-publishing, they are significant. But, in a way, we want to build a position that one day in the future, we have the full availability to decide on all of our future games what's the right model? But it's not necessarily still in the future the model that we should go for. We have always been really good in partnering with world-class innovator -- the biggest gaming industry players in the world. And for us, the most important thing is that we are still at our foots. We are a creative organization, that's the biggest thing that separates us from many of the other, in a way, companies out there. And we have the unique ability to create memorable long-lasting gaming brands, excellent games out of these brands. That's still the core focus. Now yes, we do want to make this, in a way, that they would have the maximum business opportunity and potential. But we see that the most important thing is to consider that how we can build the biggest cake out of these games, and then if the cake is big enough, we are more than happy to share that with a partner who has been helping us to build that. So that's still going to be a key strategic for us going into the future. We will strengthen our capabilities all the time on the creative technology game development aspects to be able to create the games that have the biggest potential out there in the market. And then we build sufficient commercial capabilities that we can always decide what's the best, in a way, business model to be able to benefit from these games. Then, is there any chance, Alan Wake II will be sold on Steam platform at some point? In a way, our publisher is Epic Games, and this type of questions are in their field. So I won't speculate on that as we have agreed that that's a question to our publisher partner. In the first week of October, there was news about Tencent Holdings who is in the process of changing their acquisition strategy in terms of looking out for opportunities in acquiring gaming assets in Europe. What's your point of view on this? Again, in a way, I can speculate on behalf of our partners.

Can you say anything at all on when can we expect some more information marketing on Alan Wake II? Well, again, in a way, we don't want to -- in a way, we have a great game in development. And as we have said, that game will launch in 2023. Now at some point, the marketing campaign will start -- and then that's one important element to make then the launch of the game successful. But again, that's something that our team is planning with our publisher, Epic Games, and we definitely don't want to spill out any information that might take some of the power off from the marketing campaign that at some point in the future will start.

Are there any ongoing discussions on Heron? And how can you elaborate what you said here regarding 505's part in the game? Well, when the time comes, we will then, of course, inform the markets. We have so far said that we have had good collaboration in relation to Control brand overall with 505 Games. Along our announcement on the deal with 505 Games on Condor, in the summer '21, we also announced that high-level collaboration terms in relation to Heron have been agreed, but we haven't yet informed on anything else. Does Condor EUR 25 million initial budget include live service phase? The EUR 25 million initial budget is up until the launch of the game. It's a service-based game that, of course, then also after that will require development, and that's done in collaboration with our partner. Can you elaborate on your CEO comment that Remedy is evolving towards a higher margin, more scalable consumer business? Are your plans to finance your game projects to a larger extent in the future? Well, Terhi, has in the presentation presented the one slide that hopefully opened up this question a bit more. So we are now focused on these 5 games we have in development. But especially when we compare to our past when we have 2 or 3 projects, and in a way, only Control back in those days was a game in which we were cofinancing the game and had a bigger revenue sharing part. Now when we look at our games, yes, we have Max Payne where there is a royalty opportunity. But all the other games have a bigger opportunity also either for higher royalties or for the revenues there. And we were referring to that, that when we go, in a way, into the future few years, we will have out there in the market multiple games that all have a significant royalty upside opportunity for us. And as we all know, in a way, that entire is a very scalable business that the investments -- majority of the investments have already been done and whether the game sells 1 million units, 2 million units, 3 million units, the related costs are no longer increasing in the same proportion. It is still somewhat unclear to investors what the business structure around Heron looks like? Does Remedy currently finance more than half of the project? Will Remedy and 505 Games evaluate both publishing and platform deals for the games? And then also will Condor have a Game as a Service model? Well, as I just said, in a way, we haven't yet shared any additional news on Heron. But at the moment, we are ourselves, in a way, funding the Heron development. Then at some point, in a way, when we will inform that we have a deal for Heron, then we will also inform on the financing, publishing, the commercial model. And yes, Condor will have -- and Condor is a service-based game, needing, in a way, that, yes, we will launch the game. But after that, the game will continue developing, and there is also going to be a monetization model related to that. Then on the long-term '25 plan, how do you define a major hit game in terms of copies sold? I understand that you can't give a specific figure, but the ballpark figure would help understanding your own definition of major hit game. Well, we are -- with each of these 5 games, this is -- we always build a business case for our games. And in relation to that business case, we also -- we have defined what's the overall genre of the game, in a way, what is the target audience. We are estimating what's the potential size of the target audience, what are the comparable games. In a way, how well have the biggest games in this categories done. And we want to be when we launch, one of the absolute top games in those categories. So depending on the game, we are generating comparisons to these games out there in the market, and we want to be one of those games in the -- on the top of that category. I don't want to give any number values, in a way, they differ so much based on the free-to-play game, serviced game, with potential a bit different model and then a traditional, in a way, single-player AAA game. Can you elaborate on the strength of your recruitment project and say anything on how many full-time employees you are looking to add in the coming 12 months? Well, in a way, I would say that we have an exceptionally strong recruitment capabilities. And that capability has been built during the past 6 years' time. Of course, it's supported overall by the good perception of Remedy in the employment market, in the talent market, how Remedy see, what type of games we develop, what's overall the sentiment in the developer community towards Remedy. But when we started transforming Remedy 6 years ago towards the multi-project model, we, of course, saw that in the long term, we do need more developers. And at Remedy, they need to be world-class developers, in a way, the best developers out there. We back then started building our recruitment capabilities. We now, just as an example, we have 360 people, and we are using wide number of tested, proven recruitment agencies and partners in the market. But on top of that, we have 5 full-time recruiters internally inside Remedy. They are doing a certain part of the job. But then we also have our internal organization, both, in a way, disciplined experts who are responsible for a certain, in a way, special disciplines in the company. And then we have the project leadership teams who are typically the ones who are looking for these people. So we have also taken our time, not just in finding and recruiting these people, but to do the recruitment process, the evaluation towards these people that we are able to convince them while Remedy is a good place, but we are also able to evaluate the different steps that these people are the right ones for Remedy, for our current needs and for the projects that are looking for them. And I think, on top of that, then when we have invested a lot into the different HR processes, what are the life cycle steps of an employee within Remedy and how we can support people. First of all, to find the right role at Remedy, to develop their personal skills, kind of like point the next carrier steps internally, rewarding, all these elements, I think altogether, it now can be seen as a well-functioning -- both well-functioning retention and well-functioning recruitment. Then there was, can we say how many full-time employees? We haven't. We are looking in the coming next 12 months' time. We haven't shared that type of information. But -- just looking at our website, it's visible there. I would say that at the moment, we have between 35 to 40 open positions in our website even. And that amount hasn't been changing that much during the past couple of years. Can you share how many copies have so far been sold of the Control game? Not the exact number, but we have said it previously that the amount is over 3 million units at the moment. Could you give a rough estimate of a yearly budget for like, say, service phase for Condor? No. That the information hasn't yet been shared.

Well, that seemed to be the questions. Good questions. Thank you.

[Elina Petäjäjärvi, executive]

Okay. So like Tero said, I think our time is up, and those were all the questions for today. So thank you for the call and the questions. We will be back with the next earnings webinar that is our financial statements release 2022 on February 10. So that's all for now. Have a great weekend. Bye-bye.