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Intrinsic Value is all-important and is the only logical way to evaluate the relative attractiveness of investments and businesses.
Welcome to the Catella Audiocast Teleconference First Quarter 2022. [Operator Instructions]
Today, I am pleased to present CEO, Christoffer Abramson; and CFO, Mattias Brodin. Please begin.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for attending our first quarter 2022 earnings call. I'm Christoffer Abramson, CEO. And with me today are Mattias Brodin, our Chief Financial Officer; and Michel Fischier, Head of Investor Relations and Communications. As usual, all materials, including the reports, presentations, et cetera, are available on our website, and a replay from today's call should be available on our website during the next few days.
So I'd like to start the presentation like we always do on Page 3 by giving you a brief overview of Catella, even though I believe most of you are familiar with our strategy and our focused operations by now. Today's Catella operates in 3 property-focused business areas: investment management, principal investments and corporate finance. We managed SEK 126 billion in our Pan-European investment management platform. About 75% of those assets under management are managed in property funds and the other part in a significant number of asset management mandates across Europe.
Principal investments is where we invest our own equity into a broad and diversified portfolio of investment project together with partners. As of this quarter, all of Catella's project management and development companies are included in this business area in the segment to make all our segments a bit more transparent.
Corporate Finance is our real estate advisory and brokerage with leading positions in large European markets. Corporate Finance is also very importantly, a great internal adviser to our other business areas, investment management and principal investments.
So with that brief introduction, let's move to Page 4 for the key operational highlights of the quarter. On a group level, so we start there. We sold the remaining part of Catella Mutual Funds on January 10. Thus, finally completing the strategic transformation of Catella to a property-focused company, which we began back in 2020. Moving ahead, this now allows us to fully focus on growing and refining the Catella that we present here today.
So I'm very pleased also to announce -- to support additional growth and synergies. We have just entered into an agreement to acquire a majority of the Polish real estate investments and development management company, WPP, Warsaw Property Partners earlier this week.
Poland really is a key strategic market for us. And through the acquisition, we opened up significant investment management synergies and property investment opportunities as a new platform for principal investment. The acquisition ties well into our growth and M&A strategy, through partly owned companies alongside local partners with fully aligned financial interest. The transaction is expected to be finalized during the second quarter.
We continue to have a strong liquidity position at group level with about SEK 1.1 billion at the end of the quarter. And over the last 12 months, we've made, I would say, much better use of our excess cash by investing directly into projects, which has resulted in a more efficient balance sheet position.
So look at Investment Management. We continue to deliver stable growth in assets under management, even though Q1 as usual is a bit quieter with lower acquisition activity. But this is still a good growth rate, and the path forward looks really strong. To further meet our own, most importantly, our investors sustainability ambition, we launched our second dark green fund, Elithis Towers, which plans to develop 100 energy positive residential properties. We're very proud of this exciting long-term partnership. And I'm very, very pleased to be able to say that we launched the world's first energy positive residential impact fund. And hopefully, we have a lot more of this to come in the future. To further stress out, how strong investor interest into sustainable assets continues to be is seen in our very large inflows into Catella European Residential III, our first dark green, article 9 classified fund, which reached another milestone of EUR 1 billion in the quarter. Fantastic achievement.
Looking ahead, we have over SEK 12 billion of committed capital for investments in 2022 and beyond, of course, which gives us comfort in being able to grow the business further from where we are today.
Then let's go to principal investments. We completed the first sale from the Infrahubs portfolio. There's very strong interest in the property, which we think confirms the solid business model of developing a portfolio modern and sustainable logistics properties with long leases with really strong tenants. The sale generated a total profit of SEK 106 million when including interest income of SEK 4 million on top of the capital gain. This is somewhat lower than the preliminary figures we communicated upon signing. The difference is mainly related to additional profit of SEK 30 million to be recognized when the installation of solar panel is completed later in the year as well as some late-stage development costs.
Nonetheless, the first sale in the Infrahubs portfolio resulted in an IRR and equity multiple well above our targets, and we feel really great about the sale and the quality of both our tenants and the investors looking at it gives us -- makes us feel very good about the portfolio.
An additional 3 Infrahubs projects are under construction and will be divested during 2022. And all in all, we expect to complete 7 development projects in the Principal Investments portfolio this year with the sale of Kaktus towers in Copenhagen being the biggest.
So in Corporate Finance, following the divestments and liquidations of Catella's other -- Catella's noncore business segment, we have also performed a strategic review of Corporate Finance. And this resulted in the difficult decision to discontinue our operations in Germany and the Baltics. Over the years, these markets added limited synergy with other parts of Catella, and the businesses have accumulated material losses during several years. The decision impacted the first quarter with nonrecurring costs, but we should see underlying profit margin substantially increase going forward. And this move also ensures that going forward, we can focus on growing corporate finance in the markets where we have strong positions and further benefit on the existing synergies between corporate finance and our other business areas.
Despite increased uncertainties, as you all know, in the market, we see a good pipeline of transactions for the coming quarters, and also an increased demand for debt advisory services as an effect of tighter credit markets and refinancing needs and a lot of development needs and repositioning needs for sustainability purposes.
As a final point, it is worth mentioning that the Catella Corporate Finance in Sweden was a sell-side adviser on our successful sale of Norrköping Infrahubs assets. This highlights the competence and synergies we can capture across our business areas in the group.
So on Page 5, we have a high-level summary of the group's consolidated results. To start, I'm very pleased to present a strong financial performance for the quarter. Revenue grew year-over-year by SEK 200 million to SEK 581 million. Operating profit ended at SEK 111 million, an increase of SEK 127 million since last year, and we delivered an operating margin at a healthy 19% for the entire group.
Investment Management has delivered substantial assets under management growth of SEK 17 billion during the last 12 months. During the quarter, AUM grew by SEK 3 billion, healthy growth in a seasonally -- normally a slower quarter, and we had an exceptional Q4 as well. The profit margin amounted to a stable 20% with low contribution for variable fees such as performance, acquisition or disposal fees which proves the scalability of the business with strong fixed fees and very scalable fixed cost base.
In principal investments, on top of the significant gain on sale, we invested and deployed an additional SEK 200 million into investment projects. Our landmark office development project in Central Düsseldorf on Königsallee was refinanced during the quarter, thereby reducing Catella's equity. And at quarter end then, we had SEK 1.3 billion of capital invested in 16 projects across Europe.
Corporate Finance had described as a seasonally normal quarter. The important takeaways are that when we exclude the wind-down cost of our divested markets, we show an underlying profit improvement of SEK 20 million year-over-year. And as mentioned, we see great potential to grow and expand our remaining 5 markets where we have a strong position and relevant synergies across the group.
So on Page 7, we discuss investment management in a bit more detail. As seen, we show a strong growth of 23% annually since the inception of Investment Management. And year-on-year, assets under management grew by SEK 17 billion. The growth continues to drive increased fixed fee income, our key underlying investment management metrics. Last 12 months, tax fees grew by 14% and ended over SEK 700 million. Our last 12-month variable fees were SEK 360 million compared to SEK 459 million for the previous period. The decrease, however, is not related to the underlying performance of the business. This is always a -- as the name suggests, a variable metric. But the underlying performance of the business remains strong. But in 2021, in the comparable period, we divested Catella Asset Management brands. We sold Grand Central and had a very significant performance fee in the Dutch residential portfolio Panta Rhei. So like-for-like, this will always go a little bit up and down, but underlying normal variable fees were very strong.
Investment Management continues to be the main growth engine of Catella, and we successfully raised new capital and launched new sustainability focused funds and Asset Management Mandate.
On Page 8, let's look a little bit deeper into AUM growth in Investment Management. Of the SEK 17 billion in AUM growth, a large portion stems from inflows to our modern residential fund with particular interest in sustainable assets. Notably, we show strong inflows into Catella [Indiscernible] and our dark green residential fund, Catella European Residential III. Looking ahead, we have over SEK 12 billion of unlevered committed capital, ready to be deployed into our funds through property acquisitions and developments.
On Page 9, look at the P&L for investment management. Here, we are pleased to report a 16% revenue increase year-over-year, which is mainly driven by the growth in property funds and increasing fixed fee revenue. As seen, the growth in managed assets doesn't notably increase our cost base, which supports expanding margins and improves the scalability of the business model. We continue to have a broad and diversified fund offering for our clients, which continues to generate capital inflows. And again, I'll repeat myself, but it's important, especially funds with a clear sustainability agenda.
On Page 11, we have an overview of principal investments. We continue to invest into a diversified portfolio of projects and different asset classes across Europe. The total portfolio consists of 16 projects in 6 European countries, which continue to progress according to expectations. Out of the 16, 12 are ongoing projects and 4 are in predevelopment stages. In addition to these, Catella has also provided bridge financing in the U.K., enabling the acquisition of shopping center prior to Catella APAM securing third-party financing. That financing shows how we can deploy our capital as an enabler for larger asset management mandate and structures. I'd say that's another growing part of our strategy, and we're very proud and happy that we secured a couple of these transactions in the U.K.
At the quarter end, we had SEK 1.3 billion of capital invested, which is close to our target of SEK 1.5 billion invested in investment projects on a rolling basis. The projects sold to date have generated an average IRR of around 50%, which is, of course, well above our long-term target of 20%. I wouldn't expect 50% forever, but it's a very, very good start, and we have a nice pipeline of projects for this year.
Total income or principal investment was SEK 262 million in the quarter, of which SEK 233 million related to the sales of the Norrköping assets. Other revenues related to the development companies Catella Logistic Europe and Catella Project Management [Indiscernible] as of the first quarter included in Principal Investment. They have, as you have -- as we pointed out before, assets coming up for sale later on in the year and into the coming years.
Operating profit for the area and principal investments amounted to SEK 98 million, which the sales for Norrköping generated even well, SEK 102 million or SEK 106 million when included interest income.
So on Page 12, a little bit more about principal investment. Look at the project. As mentioned, we added about SEK 200 million in investments during the quarter, taking total invested capital to SEK 1.3 billion. And when looking at the number of projects to be completed, 2022 will be and as we've communicated before, something of a harvesting year for principal investment, with 7 projects expected to be finalized from divested during the year. The investor interest for our project continues to be strong and shows the value of the assets we develop. And more importantly, the importance and the value of having platforms, creating a pipeline of projects across asset classes and markets.
Looking ahead, we continue to see a solid pipeline of opportunities fulfilling our IRR requirements. But we are naturally very closely monitoring the construction cost inflation and interest rates at the moment. It's not the easy of the market, but we have a solid business model, and we will not change our underwriting requirements to keep the investment flow going. We will keep finding the right opportunities with our very experienced and local partners. It's a challenging market, but challenging markets are also full of opportunity.
Principal Investment is not a list of one-off significant profit, although we had a significant one in the first quarter. But it is a growth platform for partnerships and continuous investments that meet our return requirements.
On Page 14, we turn to Corporate Finance. Of the total transaction volumes and revenues in the quarter, France, Finland and Sweden were the main contributors, continuing a strong track record. And as discussed, we decided to wind down our corporate finance operations in Germany and divest our stake in the operations in the Baltics. Expected restructuring cost of SEK 17 million were recognized in the quarter. But excluding those bottom line, the bottom line would have been shown an improvement of SEK 20 million year-over-year. And as I mentioned earlier, we should see our margins improve here after focusing our markets here in Corporate Finance.
So with a more focused corporate finance, we can now concentrate on growing our market share in these remaining 5 countries, and also increased collaboration and synergies across the group, as well as growing our debt advisory offering. When it comes to debt advisory, we had no revenues during the quarter, but we are -- we've had a few large transactions in the prior couple of quarters, and we are noticing an increased demand from clients due to the tighter credit markets and refinancing.
So I will now hand over to our CFO, Mattias Brodin, to cover the financial summary, beginning on Page 16.
Thank you, Christoffer. And let me briefly cover the financial summary, focus on below the headline items. As Catella already mentioned, the strong quarterly operating profit was driven by investment management and principal investments sale mortgage setting, leading to solid operating profit of SEK 111 million corresponding to a margin of 90% on group left. I would like to draw your attention to the line deducted results from noncontrolling operations.
According to IFRS accounting standards, police consolidated all the income from companies where Catella has controlling interest. In order to disclose the profit related to Catella shareholders, the noncontrolling share is deducted on this line. An example can be seen in this quarter, where all of the income from the sale of -- was recognized and the profit attributable to noncontrolling interest was the doctor. As a result, this takes Principal Investments operating profit to SEK 98 million.
Turning to the financial net, with a large positive outcome last year, which was driven by the divestment of Catella's management funds, which had a positive effect of SEK 130 million. During this quarter, we made a revaluation of our runoff loan portfolio, which resulted in a negative effect amounting to SEK 19 million. We're taking this nonrecurring items into a channel actual earnings per share increased by SEK 1.56 year-on-year.
Continuing to Page 17, where we look at the financial and liquidity position. Catella continues to have a strong balance sheet and equity ratio supporting our future growth plans, both in new investments and for potential M&A activities. Total assets increased by SEK 1 billion to nearly SEK 5.7 billion. The increase is related to additional and new investments in Principal Investments.
The liquidity at the end of the quarter amounted to SEK 1.5 billion and the past year's increased utilization of excess cash has taken us through a more efficient balance sheet position going forward.
That was all regarding Catella's financials, and back to you, Christoffer.
Thank you, Mattias. It's pretty exciting earnings per share development. So -- before opening up for Q&A, I would like to briefly summarize the quarter from our perspective on the last slide #19. So we have again shown during the quarter that we have a continued strong momentum in investment management with significant opportunities for continued growth with over SEK 12 billion in unlevered committed capital. We're encouraged by the strong investor interest in our sustainability-focused funds and excited of the launch of our second article non-classified dark green fund, Elithis Towers. And to further grow and leverage our synergies in Corporate Finance, we made the decision to exit Germany and the Baltics. And we can now wholeheartedly focus on increasing our market shares in the remaining 5 markets and develop our debt advisory offering on a Pan-European level.
After the quarter ended, we entered into an agreement to purchase the majority of the Polish real estate investment and development management company, WPP. To mention, Poland is a key market for us, and looking ahead, we can see significant investment management synergies and principal investment opportunities by bringing the highly skilled team into Catella family.
And as a final point, and with successful sale of the first development project in Principal Investments Infrahubs portfolio and have an additional 7 projects in the segment expected to be completed and divested during 2022.
So with that, I would like to thank you all very much for listening and open up for questions.
[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Patrik Brattelius from ABG.
A couple of questions from my part. If I start off with Principal Investments, can you talk a little bit about how the interest looks for the remaining Infrahubs projects in comparison to the Norrköping project, please? And also, if you can talk a little bit about the likelihood of the purchaser of the Norrköping project for the remaining Infrahubs projects? Have you have that buyer, for example, done any due diligence on the remaining Infrahubs projects?
Patrik, those are very complex questions because we simply cannot disclose any of that information. What I can say, of course, is that -- the interest in the portfolio continues to be very strong. We are -- one of the assets is already completed and one is very close to completion. I'm not saying sales completion, I mean construction completion. And we have a decent list of seaters that are assessing these properties as we speak. So we feel very strong and very positive about them. As far as the buyer of the house, I think they were very happy what they have purchased. And I'm sure they're -- on their part, assessing their options going forward, but how they think I should not speculate them. But -- the interest is strong. I think it's all about controlling land in the right position and having a first-class product and really about -- a lot about the tenant quality.
For us, it's real, real high credit worthiness of tenants in today's market is critical. And with logistics, it's about the location and the sustainability of the assets, coupled with high automation. That's what makes it really attractive. Today's market is about having first-class assets, and we truly believe we have that portfolio.
Okay. I understand you can't share too much details in negotiations. Then if we move on to -- you mentioned that Kaktus is the biggest project on the divestment list for 2022. Can you please share with us what is the latest when it comes to status here and where you're at? And what is the next step?
Sure. We have -- we're set to complete the construction of the residential portion towards the end of the summer. There will be couple of commercial parts of the complex that will take longer to fit out for -- as you know, commercial tenants have very specific requirements that means that you have the tailor built certain parts of the building. But where we are today is towards the sort of -- the final stretch of construction of the residential towers. Preparation for the whole sort of commercial areas and the plaza and the green areas and walk bridges. It's a pretty significant complex project.
The units, the residential units are renting well. And we're in the middle of that process. We had a really, really strong interest upfront that always tails off a little bit. And now as we enter into the summer is where I think the real uptake will come, tenant. A lot of these units are single units and rather small, and most of those tenants don't have families or pets and things to move around. So their lead time is pretty short. So even though we've seen great interest so far, it's hard to make a call until we get a little bit closer to the middle of the summer, I would say.
But again, the signs are good, and the commercial leases, those negotiations are progressing really well. And we have some really exciting partners that we hope to be able to announce and bring into the building. And the sale then is pretty imminent in the process of launching it. So we have started the sort of soft marketing of this asset, and we can't really talk about how that process is being run because all potential buyers want to remain anonymous, and we don't have a huge open process. But rental activity is good. Commercial activities seems strong, and the sales process will be an exciting journey, let's say, over the summer.
Sounds exciting. Can't wait to hear more news about it. Then a little bit more perhaps critical question. But you mentioned the higher interest rates leads to a more challenging market for you. Can you elaborate on that, please, on how you see the higher interest rates impact your different operational segments more in detail?
Well, I have to say, first of all, what impact us and other investors most right now is uncertainty. Inflation, as you know, has popped up, not increased, has popped up. Whether that is systemic and long term or very much a short-term pop from supply chain disruption, et cetera, is hard to tell. We don't know. We're not -- I'm not a macroeconomic expert, but we do have them in the company. And it's the uncertainty more than anything. Of course, rising interest rate affect our borrowing costs a little bit, but that's not the biggest impact. I think the bigger impact is something that we don't know yet, and that is how it will affect yield -- investor yield requirements in the future. So interest rates and inflation combined just makes it more important for us to be prudent, to have very, very clear and tight underwriting standards, which is something that we always do. And it might be even more important today.
One additional impact that we are assessing and evaluating today is how strict on the 20% IRR requirement can we be? Because we look at it from an aggregated long-term perspective. And as you can see, short term, we delivered 50%. Can 17% in today's environment for a limited period of time be acceptable? We probably think so. But these are daily assessments, and we look at our all our development portfolios and our asset base to assess what we need to do with them. Uncertainty is probably more than anything.
I understand. I continue on with 2 more questions. If you look at official data that is available through your home page, you can see that Catella European Residential seems -- show an improvement result compared to last year. What can you say about that in regards to performance fee ahead of Q2?
What I can say is that the fund performance is public, which means that you can easily do that math yourself. We shouldn't announce any official numbers before we release our second quarter results. But -- yes, the performance has been exceptional. And there will be, as it was last year and the year before, a material performance fee in the -- in our April results. So yes, we know the amount, but we don't disclose it, but you can do the math yourself, which I'm sure you already have. It's a material amount of which then we have to deduct some for partner profit sharing and long-term incentive plans and for -- at least a partial tax deduction on that as well. So -- but it's going to be a material amount in the second quarter absolutely. And it's significantly higher than last year.
Sounds good. And the last -- question is regard to Corporate Finance. You're closing the German and the Baltics, and you talked about increasing profitability. Can you talk about how you visualize the long-term sustainable operational margin within this segment?
We don't offer forecasts in our profitability. But if you think about -- we, I think in last year, in 2021 and the year before in 2020 had -- and these are going to be round numbers, and if you want the exact numbers, Mattias and I can get back to you. We had -- I would say around SEK 50 million losses in those 2 platforms for those 2 years. That is EBIT that a loss that we don't share with our partners as the majority owner. Partner share in the upside, not on the downside, and it's also not tax deductible against our profits in other countries. So if you extrapolate the majority and the percentage, and on a net tax basis, you can imagine what that does to our bottom line and our tax rate.
So looking forward, just taking those losses off the table, lift the entire segment and our -- and reduces our overall tax rate, which is something that we have to, to allow us to invest in the other platform. We have 5 very strong markets that all have particular strength and very strong market positions in the respective countries. And all work closely with all other Catella businesses, help our funds, help our direct investments, help our asset management, and that's what we want to do. And the same thing goes for investing maybe in small platforms or senior recruitment and debt advisory cost across Europe. That's where we want to put the money rather than funding losses on an after-tax basis.
The next question comes from Jesper Von Koch from Redeye.
Congrats to another strong quarter. So let's start with Investment Management. So despite not having like any significant exit fees or performance fees in Q1, you still managed to reach an EBIT margin of 20%, showing that the scalability is kicking in. So could you just talk about your platform in terms of scalability, for instance, like how much larger is your German operations for Investment Management? I guess the Krim organization in relation to that of other like smaller market?
Yes. I think if you talk about our major platforms. So Catella Residential Investment Management and Catella Real Estate AG and Catella APAM, which are our 3 largest Investment Management platforms. And again, this is going to be round numbers. That is -- that adds up to a little bit over 200 employees in total count. You have -- someone gives me the exact numbers. So we have 246 in total, and those 3 probably add up to a bit north of 200, I think.
Look, you clearly have to add resources and people when you increase the number of mandates and you increase the number of assets. But you don't really have to add all technology, offices and other sort of overhead and infrastructure.
So what we add are asset manager, acquisition managers, what we're focusing on today is really getting people with development and sustainability conversion skills and technological skills, which is critical in today's market. But it really is about human resources and human capital. And the rest of the infrastructure, we're still in the same offices. We still have the same infrastructure. We still have the same systems. Of course, we have to upgrade some other standards. But that scalability is very noticeable. The platforms are there. We just have to add some people. And again, adding people is also scalable.
You don't need one for one for every asset, of course. And the bigger you get, the more sort of oversight -- the less oversight people compared to the number of assets we have and we're regulated funds and that back office infrastructure is already in place. And we have a KBG operations in Munich, where [Indiscernible] regulated, that is very expensive infrastructure, which we already have, and we don't have to add to it. So I think that's the bigger -- our big platforms get, the better it is, of course, for us.
So -- it's a good place to be. Now it's time to really look at what we need to invest in, in the coming years when we have sustainability so on top of the agenda. And that's what we're working on right now to figure out what are the next product. What do our investors want, what do they need and to make sure that we invest in the right areas. So it's an exciting time.
I appreciate the color. So moving on to Principal Investment. So comparing your target over SEK 1.5 billion invested in principal investments to what where we are right now, there is less than SEK 300 million more to invest. The team, as you will divest several of your projects in 2022, it seems that you will be somewhat overcapitalized. So what are your plans to do with the available cash?
Plans are to invest on great future projects. So we can obviously disclose and report on intended divestment. We can't obviously disclose our pipeline of projects. But we have an interesting pipeline of projects in front of us. Of course, with the divestments we have in 2022, there will be a lot of capital. Clearly, there's going to be, I mean, a reinvestment need. And as I noted before, we talked about Poland earlier.
We placed some of that capital in a modest amount, but still in a strategic geographic expansion of existing investment management platform that gives us the opportunity to deploy capital and principal investments as this company has strong development background. So hopefully, there will be some projects in Poland to talk about. We have -- at least now we have a partner that we're working with to identify those opportunities. We have some other clearly in the pipeline in other countries as well. But that's what we do. That's what we try to do every day and keep identifying the right local opportunities with local partners. But yes, it's exciting. We're going to free up a lot of capital and have the opportunity to place it into additionally a great project, the one that we're selling today.
All right. So regarding your project Düssel-Terrassen, regarding your [Indiscernible].
Sorry, sorry, I couldn't hear part of that question?
All right. Regarding your project Düssel-Terrassen, do you own the land or is it just the building right? And is everything already paid like to a fixed price, regarding like the land?
That's a multi-facet question [Indiscernible] We -- I'm not sure exactly what we have the right to disclose. But we have a series of right and very little capital invested to date, if I put it that way. So it's more of a zoning triggered option situation. But I think if you want to go through each phase there in detail, we should do it in a separate meeting because we have a local team presence to make sure that we don't say anything we shouldn't.
All right. Good. And we'll take that another time. Okay. And then also regarding like -- obviously, there are higher prices on raw material right now. But like in what way does this impact your project?
It impacted materially in the ones we are -- where we are not fully secured with fixed contracts and where we are in full scale development. We have, over the last few weeks, gone through every single asset in development, both in principal investments and in every single fund that we own to assess the risk, to assess any exposure. And I would say we're in a fortunate position to have been good in our selection of construction partners and securing a lot of fixed contracts.
There are some, of course, like everyone in the market. You have some variable exposure. But as it relates to the size of our portfolio, I feel at least today, pretty good about it. We have, obviously, they've gone through hundreds of assets -- and there are very few that I would say has material risk. Now there will be price increases like for everyone else in the market. But the ones that we are completing, if you look at them this year, the vast majority of that is on fixed price construction contracts. And a lot of those materials are already acquired at prices that we are aware of.
Now good thing is also a lot of our development portfolio, as you pointed out, Düssel-Terrassen, Seestadt several others are in pre-development stage, which means that we are not committed to specific contracts, and we're not exposed to the supply chain issues at the moment. Who knows where they will be in 6 months, but it's unlikely that the disruption is permanent. So -- but it's clearly -- it's something we work with every day on every single project. But I think for the foreseeable future, we're clearly in a manageable position.
Good. Also maybe in Principal Investments, [Indiscernible] Principal Investments with a typical, like owning stake of about 40% to 50% as well as the smaller co-investments, which are like much smaller share of the total product. There are 2 questions around this. How large are typically [Indiscernible] investments versus principal investments? And do you see like a risk of diluting your IRR co-investments could become like a bigger part?
No. I almost think the contrary, that's a little bit speculation, but co-investment is going to be a bigger, we hope, in a more important part of our strategy. And we can take the last 2 ones that we've made in the U.K., as an example, which is providing critical capital. And therefore a credibility in the market towards our end investors of being able to secure an asset where we have an opportunity act fast and secure a great project, and we know we are going to have someone invest in this mandate, a club or a group or a fund. So to be able to do this, I think, opens up so much strength in our respective asset management businesses that it actually is a positive.
Some of these are going to be short term, which means that we will go in and own an asset, maybe seed the asset or will bridge finance it, which means that we control the return on a pretty tight and short-term basis, which maybe we'll turn the capital a little quicker than we do in other areas. But this is all about showing ability to our investors. It's about showing alignment and in certain cases, it is about securing assets to enable us to have these mandates.
So if you look at the IRR, you should also look at not only the equity or the debt shareholder loans that are invested, but also the return that we get from these mandates, from these funds, from the fees that we generate in our other businesses. We don't report that as part of the IRR, but it clearly is a benefit and a kicker to these types of investments. And something that we want to do more of that is something that we are assessing at the moment. How many and what type of resources do we need, both here in Stockholm and across Europe to make sure that we have enough flow. Because right now, myself and our leadership team probably are bottlenecks in because we haven't done a lot of this in the past, and we're building up that organization. But this is really important because it creates AUM and it creates investor interest and it creates a number of fees on top of the IRR. So I look at it as a very positive development.
And I also -- yes, so I'll get back to that as well. And we have co-investments that are -- have been as small as a couple of hundred thousand euros. And the biggest are up to what about the SEK 100 million in the sort of the last couple of investments that we made.
All right. Nice. So moving on to Corporate Finance. If you could just perhaps elaborate on the dynamics between the different segments in Corporate Finance, like, for instance, could debt advisory be more resilient when other segments are not and vice versa, just your thoughts on that.
Yes. I think we are -- and that's why we are -- as you know, we're entrepreneurial and opportunistic. We have skills and competence in-house, and we want to increase it. I think that advisory even debt funds in the future, we'll have a more prominent place than it has because it's been -- I wouldn't say easy, but it's been relatively easy to finance over the last few years. It's been a strong market. There's been a lot of capital. Banks and other vendors have been open. Today, the credit spread and have widened the loss and the credit markets has tightened somewhat, which means that having expertise in that area is going to be even more important.
And again, it's about not only the product in and of itself being able to secure large debt advisory mandates across Europe, it's providing and helping synergies across the group. If we are trying to develop assets or setting up a mandate or let's call it, a value-add or opportunistic investor, having debt advisory and an understanding of the entire balance sheet can only strengthen our position. And the fact that we have people now across Catella who are experts in this field gives us even more credibility. And if you combine the fact that we can co-invest with equity, and advice on the debt side of the balance sheet, I think we're in a very good position. So of course, it's a separate product, but it does provide us with a lot of opportunities and leverage. And as it relates to the cyclicality and the others, we have a -- we take our biggest market, we've been among the top 2, 3 advisers in Sweden for a long time in France, which is our largest revenue market. We have sell side, buy side specialists in residential and in valuations.
Those are all on different cycles, which provides a bit of diversification and recurring revenues, frankly. And the same goes if you look at all across Europe, different skill sets. But we want to broaden that. You're absolutely right that if you are very focused on a particular type of brokerage activity, yes, you're extremely subject to market transaction volume. And we don't want to be in that position. I think we have skill sets across a lot of different type of advisory, which I think at least in the coming couple of years, it's going to be increasingly important.
Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions. Dear speakers, back to you.
Well, with that, I think if there are no more questions, we'll wrap up. That's about just in time for 11:00, so that's perfect. We thank everyone so much for listening, and we look forward to speaking with you again in our next quarterly reports. Thank you, and everyone, have a great day and a wonderful weekend.