Adler Group SA
XETRA:ADJ
Earnings Call Analysis
Summary
Q3-2023
Adler Group exhibited robust performance amidst a challenging German real estate market. Despite a market slowdown due to recession fears and increased interest rates, the company managed to close significant deals. Notably, it disposed of roughly 700 units in Berlin's Wasserstadt portfolio, as well as two development projects, cumulatively contributing to around EUR 530 million in proceeds. This agility in asset liquidation underpins Adler's strategy to focus on Berlin-centric holdings with limited development exposure. Financially, Adler has secured new financing, paid off significant debts, and confirmed negative FFO from rental activity at EUR 7 million, with a like-for-like rental growth of 2.4%. The year-end net rental income guidance remains unchanged, hoping to balance Q4 rental growth against Q3 sales losses. The company's cash reserves stand at EUR 432 million, positioning it well to meet operational demands and debt obligations.
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Good morning, and thank you all for joining us today. My name is Gundolf Moritz, and I'm heading Financial Communications for Adler Group. With me are Thierry Beaudemoulin, CEO; and Thomas Echelmeyer, CFO, who will guide you through today's presentation. At the end of the presentation, we have reserved time for a Q&A session to answer any questions you may have. Please note that this call will be recorded and made available on the company's website after the call. I would now like to hand over to Thierry. Thierry, please go ahead.
Thank you, Gundolf. First of all, I would like to thank everybody for joining us here today. I would like to start today's presentation with a brief update on our strategy as well as an update on the considerable progress achieved within any of our 5 strategic pillars. Before I do so, please allow me to put our accelerated progress in context. Over the past month, the German real estate market continued to be more adverse than expected. Transaction volume and price were impacted by prediction about a deeper-than-anticipated recession, 2 additional rate hike and a continued restraint sentiment among market participants. Against this background, I'm convinced it's fair to say that we performed remarkably. We are very proud that we have successfully closed the sale of c.700 units, Berlin-based Wasserstadt rental portfolio at close to book value, which is a highly recognizable achievements of the team involved. In addition to that, we have disposed a development project Staytion - Forum Pankow located in Berlin and the development of Mannheim No. 1, in of course, the City of Mannheim. The just mentioned 3 projects contributed to gross proceeds of around EUR 530 million year-to-date, representing a significant portion of the total transaction market volume in Germany of around EUR 5 billion so far. The sale of Wasserstadt and the 2 development projects show our ability to continue disposing assets and generating liquidity despite adverse market condition. And we will further progress, however, at a lower pace than originally expected due to the adverse market conditions. Further, we are continuing our transition to concentrate our portfolio to Berlin with limited development exposure. To do so, we are reoffering our NRW portfolio to the market, and we'll continue to execute orderly disposal of our Wasserstadt portfolio and development project in the short and medium term. To accelerate the process, we have mandated market-leading broker for all our major development project. We have largely finished all committed CapEx on development project. Other sizable CapEx commitment have been put on hold in line with what we have previously communicated. Obviously, it goes without saying we will continue maintenance and relating CapEx where necessary in order to keep our assets in marketable conditions. We successfully addressed all our financial obligations due in '23, secured new financing in a very challenging financial market environment and ensured sufficient liquidity for the group. As a result of execution, we have successfully placed EUR 191 million senior secured notes to refinance the EUR 165 million convertible bond and EUR 24.5 million of promissory note, both at Adler Group, which were due in November '23. With that, and the repayment of Benrather Gärten promissory note in the amount of EUR 50.5 million, we have no remaining maturity in 2023. Following the completion of the disposal mentioned, we have repaid circa EUR 270 million debt of associated secured debt year-to-date. The squeeze-out process and delisting of ADLER Real Estate AG has been completed in October, in line with the announced simplification of our corporate structure. As a consequence, we have also discontinued our external reporting. As mentioned, during the last year 2023 result presentation, the sales process of our stake in BCP has been initiated and is currently ongoing. Concerning Consus, we would like to mention that we fulfill our legal obligation with concluding the ordinary AGM for full year 2021. We are delighted that yesterday, the General Meeting of Shareholders has appointed AVEGA Revision as auditor of the stand-alone and consolidated financial statement for the year '22 and '23 for Adler Group S.A. The long-lasting search for an auditor has first ended. As we stated earlier, the audit will be in the form of component audit with 3 other firms auditing the large sub-area of the group.
Among this firm, Rödl & Partner has commenced their work as auditor of Adler Real Estate in July 2023. With the impartment of this respected audit firm, we are well positioned to be able to publish group audited financial statements for '22 and '23 until September 2024 as planned. We will keep you up to date on any relevant development.
Let's move on Page 6. For this, I hand over to Thomas.
Thank you, Thierry. And also from my side, a very warm welcome to everyone here on the call. In addition to the progress made on our 5 strategic pillars, we also completed the financial restructuring plan. Please allow me to refresh and update you on recent events in this respect. In April, the High Court of Justice of England and Wales sanctioned the restructuring plan and the amendment of the terms and conditions of our notes were implemented and continued to apply. The New Money funding has been fully drawn in 3 tranches for a total amount of EUR 937 million to repay the EUR 500 million Adler Real Estate 2023 bond, to tender the EUR 300 million Adler Real Estate 2024 bond and to provide additional liquidity of EUR 80 million for Consus and the remainder to be used for the payment of the restructuring fees of circa EUR 57 million. On the back of the commission up to the appeal from the Court of Appeal, 3 days of hearing took place between 23 and 25 of October. It is expected that a decision from the court will be communicated soon and we will update you on the resulting next steps accordingly. Finally, as already mentioned, the AGM has appointed AVEGA Revision as auditor of the stand-alone and consolidated financial statements for the years 2022 and 2023. Now moving on to the Q3 2023 highlights on Slide 8 and back to Thierry.
Thanks, Thomas. Our residential portfolio continued to show strong operational performance in the third quarter 2023, supported by solid underlying rental fundamental. The like-for-like rental growth in the first 9 months has been plus 2.4% year-on-year. Average rents stood at EUR 7.39 per square meter per month at the end of September, which represents an increase of EUR 0.50 or 2.1% year-over-year when adjusting last figures for Wasserstadt rental. Vacancy remained at low levels, standing at 1.6% at the end of Q3, reflecting the high quality of our assets and our strong Berlin home base. On valuation, due to the absence of a portfolio appraisal in Q3, the fair value of our portfolio has not changed compared to the half year figure. Our [indiscernible] are currently progressing with the full year '23 valuation on which we will inform you with the publication of the full year '23 figures. Moving to our financial performance on the back of the decreased size of the yielding portfolio, the disposal of the remaining part of the Eastern portfolio to Velero/KKR and the Waypoint portfolio, the Leipzig portfolio sell at BCP level at the end of '22 and the sale of the Wasserstadt portfolio in the third quarter of '23, net rental income came in at EUR 160 million compared to EUR 187 million in the first 9 months of '22. As at the same time, interest expenses rose with the restructuring effort, FFO from rental activity was negative for the first time with minus EUR 7 million compared to EUR 68 million in the same period of '22. This corresponds to FFO 1 purchase of minus EUR 0.05 versus EUR 0.58 in '22. On NRI guidance, we confirm our previously communicated range for the full year 2023. We expect that the shortfall from the sale of “Wasserstadt” rental will be offset by corresponding rental growth in the remaining portfolio in Q4. EPRA NPAs stood at EUR 1.1 billion or EUR 7.27 per share at the end of the third quarter of '23 compared to EUR 1.3 billion or EUR 0.0876 per share at the half year stage, the movement that was mainly driven by the higher noncash interest expenses resulting from the New Money funding. Compared to Q2 2023 EPRA LTV increased by 1.4 percentage points to 89.1%. Weighted average cost of the debt was 5.7 at the end of September, 0.2 percentage points more than at the half-year stage. Obviously, this is driven by the costs incurred by the New Money funding that has been drawn on 26th April this year and a number of refinancing at the property level. We had EUR 432 million cash in our balance sheet at the end of the third quarter, excluding cash LNP. This is more than EUR 200 million more than 1 quarter ago, resulting mainly from the proceeds from the disposal in Q3. With this liquidity position, we will be able to continue our operating activity as well as servicing our debt obligation. In that regard, and I say earlier, we are proud that we were able to dispose a 700 units, Berlin-based yielding portfolio of “Wasserstadt” close to book value during the third quarter. In total, and including “Mannheim with Forum Pankow, the volume of disposed GAV contributed roughly EUR 530 million year-to-date. The sales of these 3 projects respectively resulted in net proceeds totaling circa EUR 200 million absolute payment of circa EUR 236 million of associated debt. Since the beginning of the year, we have repaid debt associated with sales in total of around EUR 270 million. Despite the sale of 2 development projects, it is fair to say that against the backdrop of a substantially more difficult market environment, progress on the disposal of development project is not as fast as we would have liked it to be. Further worth to mention is our progress we made in the completion of development projects forward selling condo and the realization of respective milestone payment. Regardless of the adverse market condition, we will continue our efforts to reduce our development exposure further. In particular, we expect to close the Offenbach project in the first half of 2024. In addition to our efforts to dispose development project, we are also working on the sale of different yielding portfolio. Our NRW portfolio more commonly referred to as cosmopolitan portfolio has been recently reoffered to the market and the sale of our stake in BCP is currently ongoing. Please join me on Page 10 to update you on our operational performance. Following the disposal of 700 units of the “Wasserstadt” portfolio, we have currently more than 25,000 rental units in our portfolio. 8,000 of these are located in Berlin, the German capital. As you can see from the slide, the value of our portfolio has decreased revaluation and disposal from EUR 5.2 billion at the beginning of the year to EUR 4.4 billion at the end of September, which translates into an average fair value of EUR 2,597 per square meters. 90% of our GAV of our portfolio, EUR 3.8 billion in absolute figures relates to our assets in Berlin. Let's move on to the next page. In the course of the first 9 months, the like-for-like fair value decreased by 8.4%, which was mainly driven by our midyear revaluation in June '23 and has been adjusted for the sale of the “Wasserstadt” portfolio. As mentioned before, the value of our low-yielding Berlin portfolio has been impacted most by the new interest rate environment in which we find ourselves. This results in the 8.9% negative revaluation compared negative 5.2% evaluation for the remainder of our portfolio. For Q4, we anticipate this direction of travel to continue albeit at a slower pace and foresee a valuation decline in the magnitude of a low to mid-single-digit percentage number. Following the 8.4% decrease in fair value and 2.4% increase in rent year-to-date, where we mechanically increased yield. Regardless, the historical discrepancy between Berlin and the rest of Germany continue to persist as we observe significantly lower yield in our capital. 0.3 percentage point increase to 3.1% at the end of the first quarter for our Berlin-based portfolio compared to 2.8% at the end of last year. And in addition to that, rental yield for the remainder of the portfolio has increased by 0.3 percentage points as well as 5.2% versus 4.9% as per full year 2022. Please join me on Page 12 to discuss our rental growth in more detail. At the end of the third quarter, we have realized a total like-for-like rental growth of 2.4% compared to 2% a year ago. There are a number of factors impacting our retail growth, 8.1% decline originated from new vacancy. This constrained unit that were rented a year ago, but they are -- that are currently vacant. 2.2% increase related to vacancy reduction to last year, of which 1.5% seems from unit where CapEx were exerted [indiscernible]. 0.2 rental growth come from relating at market rent without any effect of CapEx investment. And finally, 1.8% is attributable to indexation of existing contracts. All in all, if we exclude the effect of new vacancy, we could say that rental growth would have been 4.2%, which will be in line with what peers have shown to date. Regardless, disposal has also an effect. Our average rent was EUR 7.39 per square meter per month at the end of Q3, 2.2% lower compared to the [indiscernible] figure of EUR 7.56 a year ago. If we adjust this for the “Wasserstadt” portfolio in order to get an NBS comparison, average rent would have been EUR 7.24 1 year ago. First, we note an increase of EUR 0.15 or 2.1%. Let's continue on Page 13, where we take a look at anticipated rent increase for Q4. For the last quarter of '23, we anticipate a total rent increase of approximately 2.9% based on rent increase that have already been announced to our tenants. This should lead to an implied total rental growth of 4.7% to 5% for the full year '23. The rental growth for Q4 can be split into plus 3.1% for our Berlin portfolio and 2.3% for other portfolio in Germany. This rental growth estimation translates into a total estimated annual rental income in the amount of EUR 133 million at the end of the year, of which, EUR 101 million would relate to Adler Group and EUR 52 million to ADLER Real Estate AG. All in all, this underpins the high quality of renal growth potential of our portfolio. I would now like to hand over to Thomas, who will update you on our financial performance on Page 15.
At the end of the third quarter of 2023, we had a portfolio of yielding assets worth approx. EUR 4.4 billion and development projects with a GAV of approximately EUR 1.6 billion coming to a total GAV of EUR 6 billion. This does not exclude the portfolio of BCP, which is considered the assets and liabilities held for sale as we intend and anticipate the sale of the 63% stake in BCP, held by our subsidiary Adler Real Estate. In the absence of portfolio appraisals, GAV has been impacted in Q3 by disposals only. The sale of the Berlin-based “Wasserstadt” portfolio, the disposal of Staytion - Forum Pankow and development projects in “Mannheim No. 1, which is closed in October 2023. The disposals also had an effect on the EPRA LTV, which you will see on the next page. The EPRA LTV of the group increased to 89.1% compared to 87.8% at the end of last quarter. It is mostly explained by: first, the increased interest expenses, both paid and accrued over Q3 2023 following the restructuring plan. Second, development CapEx mostly related to product sales and condominium projects, which cannot be activated. And third, the disposal of the Wasserstadt portfolio and development project Staytion - Forum Pankow increased the EPRA LTV given the impact of the deconsolidation of both minority interest and associated debt. Positive impact on LTV was related to, first, the refinancing activities at BCP and the redemption of [indiscernible] following the disposal of the Leipzig portfolio and other miscellaneous items. Please allow me to remind you that the EPRA LTV deviate from the covenant LTV definition in our bonds. This covenant is severely listed and will be tested for the tough time on 31 of December 2024. With this, let's move to Page 17. Following the repayment of Adler Group's convertible, the promissory note had the loan from Benrather Gärten all 2023 maturities have been addressed. In addition, we secured new financing in a very challenging market environment and ensured sufficient liquidity for the group, more specifically on the repayments. On the 29th of September 2023, Adler Group has placed EUR 191 million of new payments in kind senior secured EUR 1.5 million notes in order to refinance the existing EUR 165 million convertible bond and the promissory note, which both were set to mature in November. The new notes accrual payment in kind interest of 21% annually, which clearly is an elevated level. These levels are not those which we expect to see in the 2024 refinancing of secured bank loans as we have constructive dialogues with banks to achieve more realistic grades on the first-lien basis. Please note that due to the settlement of the transaction in October, you won't see the accounting effect of the new financing in the Q3 accounts. On August 9, 2023, BCP completed an exchange offer for its bonds, in which the company repaid EUR 97.1 billion of par value of the bonds in exchange for EUR 53.2 million of par value of bonds and EUR 53.4 million in cash. The difference between the par value we paid and the actual cost incurred can be easily explained. In addition to some transaction costs, the main portion is due to the FX losses. As the euro Israeli Shekel exchange rate increased between the moment of entering into the hedging contract and the actual day of the exchange offer, a loss occurred.
Besides the repayment of the Adler Group convertible bond and the promissory notes in November, we have also repaid maturities linked to the disposal of the Wasserstadt portfolio and Staytion - Forum Pankow in the total amount of EUR 236 million and Benrather Gärten Schuldscheine in the amount of EUR 50.5 million, which is at a discount of 7.9% to par value. Let's continue on Page 18 to talk about the debt KPIs. During the third quarter, our gross debt position decreased with nearly EUR 300 million to roughly EUR 6.5 billion. The lower gross debt position mainly results from the repayment of debt related to the disposal of Wasserstadt portfolio and Staytion - Forum Pankow in the amount of EUR 236 million. As regards of the improved restructuring plan, we have a fully secured financing structure, of which, 29% related to secured bank debt with the remaining primarily related to the restructuring. You can find more details on the digital security there on the right-hand side of this slide. When it comes to the cost of debt, the weighted average cost of debt has slightly increased to 5.7% compared to 5.5% as per Q2 2023. Our total debt position has been fixed and hedged with an average maturity of 2.9 years. The detailed maturity schedule is shown on the next page. Until November 2023, we have successfully refinanced the Adler Group convertible bonds and promissory notes with EUR 191 million new payment in kind secured 1.5 lien notes and repayment of Benrather Gärten Schuldscheine in the amount of EUR 50.5 million with 8% discount below par. With these repayments, we have covered all maturities for 2023. Looking at the 2024 maturities. The majority of the maturities consist of bank debt and the interest rates to be prolonged or covered through capital refinancing measures including additional disposals. In short, we do not expect any major challenges in 2024 as far as refinancing is concerned. Let's turn to cash next page. We have a cash position of EUR 432 million at the end of Q3 2023, which is higher than the EUR 231 million we held at the end of Q2 due to the proceeds from the sale of the Wasserstadt portfolio and development project Staytion - Forum Pankow.
Please let me remind you that the EUR 432 million exclude EUR 61 million of cash at a BCP level, which is classified as asset held for sale at group level. With that, we would get to a position of EUR 493 million cash at hand by 30th of September 2023. There have been several factors affecting the cash position during the third quarter of 2023. Total cash inflow from the sale of unit assets of EUR 744 million, mainly related to the sale of Wasserstadt portfolio. In addition to that, we had also a positive inflow of approx. EUR 30 million, resulting from the sale of Staytion - Forum Pankow project. The positive cash flow result from attracting additional bank debt, which is part of the WBR/Melet refinancing in an amount of EUR 56 million. BCP has repaid half the shareholder loan in an amount of EUR 75 million with an additional EUR 10 million from the participation in the sale of BCP's largest portfolio. With the asset sales, we have also repaid EUR 236 million associated secured debt during Q3. Reminder of the total debt repayments of EUR 19 million related to among others amortizations. And finally, we spent EUR 39 million in CapEx, which relates to the ongoing development projects at the company level. The remaining net cash outflow of EUR 39 million, mainly related to restructuring and other advisory fees, taxes and smaller items grouped under other. Thierry, now back to you.
Thanks, Thomas. We would like to end this presentation with some concluding remarks and recap that we think were the most important milestone. Above all, we successfully addressed all of our 2023 refinancing requirement and accumulated cash position of EUR 432 million to continue with our plan in 2024. In further detail. AVEGA Revision has been appointed by the general meeting of the shareholders as auditor of the stand-alone and consolidated financial statement for the year '23 and -- '22 and '23, which leave us well positioned to be able to publish audited financial statements for the whole group within the announced time frame. The squeeze-out process and delisting of Adler Real Estate was completed. External reporting was discontinued accordingly. Despite adverse market condition, we have successfully disposed the Wasserstadt portfolio at book value and 2 development projects at expected price. With the disposal, we were in the position to reduce our total interest bearing debt by nearly EUR 300 million and improve our liquidity position to EUR 432 million. Operational KPI has further improved in Q3, and we can confirm our NRI guidance for the full year 2023. With that, we would like to conclude the presentation and open the floor for any questions you may have. Thank you for your attention. Gundolf, over to you for the Q&A.
Yes. Thank you, Thierry. Yes, please, Anna, you can open the line for Q&A, please.
[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Felix Wolfgang from Sarria.
Thank you for the results presentation today. It seems to look like they are possibly becoming a bit more stable. Can I ask when you sell assets, when you sell, say, your Leipzig portfolio or, say, any other assets, and the headline figure that you communicate is somewhere near par. In general, how large is the component in such a transaction that is exchanged in cash or otherwise, say, taking other debt on day 1? It tends to be a sort of uncertain proportion that is subject to a variety of conditions subsequent and future performance. Are we talking 10%, 15% there? Or what should I assume?
Thank you for the question. so I will answer in principle. So for the yielding asset, there is no post-closing condition. So 100% of the price is paid. For the debt, it depends on the position of the lenders, the duration of the financing. But of course, most of the financing that are maturing at a lower cost. So for instance, in Wasserstadt, we have transferred the financing, which was attractive, which has the lowest to sell at book value. And it's also smaller transaction of yielding assets, we have not been able to transfer the financing and then the sales price achieved was slightly different. It remarks development, they are more likely some milestone to be done post closing, but we are trying to limit that as much as possible. So for instance, in the Mannheim No. 1, which has been disposed, we have 5% remaining to be paid based on additional success of letting, which we have negotiated further timing post closing to do it. But in '22, we tried to close and be paid immediately.
Okay. So if I understood most of such transactions these days in Germany to include a certain contingent amount, be it that maybe the cash travels first but has to be repaid later or more likely doesn't travel first. And there is a sort of component of the transaction there that is -- that will be paid later. That is not -- if you take a yielding transaction like the Leipzig portfolio, for instance, that is not part of such a transaction?
So no, just to clarify. So when we announced closing, we announced the cash to begin. When it's yielding asset, 100% is paid at closing, it's very unlikely that we have post-closing element. On development, in specific case, for instance, like“ Mannheim No. 1, we may have further payment, but then this is a very small portion of the total price because our policy, when we announced the closing, we communicate on the cash, which is almost 100% of the purchase price. So we -- so this is what we are doing. Of course, we have still from the past, some forward sales, which are development, which have been sell upon completion, for instance, in Quartier Hoym in Dresden, where we have this kind of payment by say -- but this is coming from the past, and this is not what we are doing for the current sale we have announced. So out of the EUR 530 million we have announced, except Mannheim No. 1 where a few percentage are still open, 100% has been cash out at closing.
Okay, that's very good. I have only 2 more questions. One is on the ESG CapEx. ESG tends to drive CapEx quite a bit these days. And I was wondering if you going forward or any increased CapEx requirements either in your NRW portfolio or in Berlin and what those requirements would be to achieve the growth that you're looking at? And yes, that's question number one. And I'm not sure I entirely understood your refinancing at BRAC level. If you could perhaps just tell me one more time the ins and outs during the quarter?
So on ESG, so we have an ongoing plan with our current CapEx measure, which amount in full year basis between EUR 15 and EUR 20 per square meters. So part of our ESG transition is including in the budget. But of course, as some measure of ESG are taken a bit more time, we have also to assess timing on sales. For instance, when a portfolio is for sale, we are doing short-term ESG measure, which can be completed before the end of the year. And then for more long-term measures, this is something we are discussing with the buyer to present what is forecasted for the coming years, and we'll do that. But let's say, it's a 15 to 20 years plan. So there is no immediate impact. But of course, all our CapEx activity is flagged toward energy efficiency and toward improving the ESG rating of our asset. I can -- so Thomas will answer on BCP.
On the BCP, what you are asking, Wolfgang, BCP, we paid EUR 97 million of bonds of par value and in exchange for they paid in cash, EUR 53.4 million. And for EUR 53.2 million of par bonds have been exchanged. So the difference between these 2 numbers relates to the exchange rate losses. There are some colligation costs, obviously an exchange rate losses between euro and Israeli Shekel.
The next question comes from [indiscernible] from Barclays.
It's [indiscernible] from Barclays. Three questions, but very quick. Offenbach, long closing, what's the main driver of the fact that along closing is required into H1 2024? And the second question is, do you -- could you give us an idea of how much you're paying for new bank financing in terms of overall cost of financing and for how long? And third, you mentioned sales ongoing for the BCP stake. I guess, the marketing process is ongoing? Or do you already have talks around it in concrete? And is it a strata transaction as we are seeing in real estate? Or is it just the sale of the stake? Sorry, there's too many questions.
On Offenbach, let's say, in general, in development projects, which have already been started and where you have different parts with residential commercial the buyer need to team up with 1 or 2 developers, one for residential, one for commercial and then to align the investor, they need also to align with the city, which has to confirm the transfer of the building permit. So all these elements in the context where we are today with uncertainty about the future evolution of the price for new build housing. And also for rate, interest rate is taking more time. So that's what we are seeing. So we are still working, and we expect to close in the first half of the year once, let's say, buyer would have completed the different step there. In regard to BCP, yes, we are in marketing stage. We are -- we have NDA sign, and we have potential interested part in looking to do [indiscernible]. So we are selling a stake of our 63%. But of course, in the environment of market where we are today, buyer are also looking at the underlying portfolio of the company and taking time to assess the opportunity for them.
Then [indiscernible] on your second question, which you have on new bank financing. You see our presentation on Page 35, where the maturities are in June 2024, December 2024. We are in discussions, obviously, with our banks. And clearly, the interest environment has changed in the last year, as we all know. So that means we expect, of course, higher interest costs than we had before. But currently, I cannot say what the amount will be exactly. But we can estimate we have 4% more and then putting the margin on top. So we end up with 5%, 6%, if I would assume from today's standpoint of view. And from the maturity, what we are looking for is at least 2 years prolongation, but this has to be adjusted again with respect to our sales plans.
Gentlemen, so far there are no more questions.
Well, thank you to have joined us today for our quarterly presentation, and we look forward to see you in the -- at the end of the first quarter to update you on the full year results. Thank you, and I wish you all a good day.