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Okay. Let's start with the conference call. So welcome to the conference call of Krones. Krones made a very good start to the 2023 financial year. That was the headline of our press release in the morning. Now we want to present you the figures and more details about the first quarter 2023 and give you also the possibility to ask questions. I think you are very familiar with teams and had no [indiscernible] questions. [Operator Instructions] As mentioned after the presentation, I have Christoph Klenk; and Uta Anders, we have the possibility to ask questions. I think you are also familiar how to -- how we handle the Q&A session. So send me just a short e-mail, I will then hand over to you. So let's start with the presentation. I think we are all interested in the details and explanations about the figures. So I will hand over to Mr. Christoph Klenk. Christoph, the floor is yours.
Olaf, thank you very much, and a warm welcome to all of you this afternoon in the name of Uta and myself. So we are running through the numbers and let me say, the facts for Q1. And let me say one thing before I can say we are both very happy with the numbers we see. And this is true for our whole team since Q1 was really excellent. And if we look to the whole year, I would say, with the fundamental we have right now, after Q1, we are very convinced to achieve our targets for 2023.
If I look to that, we had both intensive travels over the last 2 weeks around the world and did speak a lot to customers. So even I would say the fundament of Krones being a close partner for our customers is very good at the moment, which gives in the long perspective even for the pipeline, a good fundament. What I believe this is well important. What is not so clear in the presentation is we are going to hire people around the world on various subjects and even this is going well.
So we are, at this morning, an intensive meeting with our HR folks globally, and we are quite surprised how good we are doing in getting the people on board we need. So that's in those times, a bit of a surprise to be honest, that this is going so well and it's other compliment we can have as an organization. Yes, these are the good news. Last but not least, I have to say we are still struggling with the supply chain.
This is our day-to-day headache we have. And even for that, we had a meeting this morning. So we are well prepared, and we might talk about that later on. But as we did in the past quite well with that, we are able to handle the supply chain even in case it's difficult and transfer orders into revenue. So that's the basic messages I wanted to send in the beginning before we run in the numbers.
Now just briefly, here are the highlights. We will talk about anything in the coming slides. And those are the basic figures which you know. So I'm jumping over that. And the next thing I want to talk a bit deeper is the order intake, which you have seen is, again, on a very good level for Q1. We are at EUR 1.5 billion roughly, which is, from our point of view, a very good thing.
Why is that? Because we had a lot of catch-up effects in the past from COVID-19 then we had, of course, some demands because of the long deliveries, which have been excellent ordinary brought in. But I would say the Q1 represents, let me say, a new structure because there is no catch-up demand anymore to -- on a large extent. And customers are more used to the long delivery times. So they are getting back into a normal ordering cycle.
And this is something which I think is remarkable on the Q1 order intake. Of course, we have a positive book-to-bill ratio, and we do believe that will be kept for the whole year, which is another important message I want to say [indiscernible], and we believe Q2 will be maybe not on the level you see right now because Q2 is -- has a big offer seasonality in usually. And it seems to be that in many cases, we are returning to kind of the seasonality we have seen over the, let me say, normal years between 2015 and 2020.
So some of that might come back. But nevertheless, we still see Q2 good and strong in order intake. And even more important, we see the mid- and long-term pipeline as well filled well. So this is something good. The negative side of the coin is that we are at the moment facing quite long delivery times at 75 weeks plus, which might kill as the one or the other order because some of our competitors might be a bit better on delivery times than we are.
So that's the perspective roughly on the order intake and the backlog. I don't have to explain with the good order intake has again rose compared to last year, which gives us in terms of planning for 2023 and 2024 [ great ] security. Now just one look on our products and how they perform in the market, I would say bottling and packaging is still doing extremely well. You see our global market position. You know that from the Capital Market Day, so that's all going well.
Two things I want to remark in PET, where, for a long time, the #1. But in Can lines, we are by far the #1 in 2022, which gave us a new position into that. And Aseptic lines have been regaining market share significantly, in particular in North America, some in Asia and now the last area where we have really to gain market share back is in China. So this is doing well. On processing, we are gaining even market share and trust into our aseptic solutions on the processing side. So more is going together with our aseptic fillers and customers relying more on our product.
And I have to mention here the acquisition of Ampco Pumps, which we did recently, we have informed you about that. And this is, from our point of view, an excellent add-on to our component business. and giving further financial stability, of course, to the segment of processing. Intralogistics is growing as well. And two good things there. Asia, we are gaining momentum there. In particular, India, we had very good order intake.
And second, we have introduced a new order picking system, which is as well something which attracted the markets with the just recently hold exhibitions. Now on -- if I'm able to -- here we go. Markets, you know that slide are extremely okay. I just said during lunch with a very large customer on a global perspective, a discussion on the beverage market. So they are seeing the scenario the same as we see it, good potential for the future. So markets are performing well.
Now a short look into our sustainability transformation and performance program. I don't want to jump deep into it. I want to keep it short, even in case we could talk hours about that. But we wanted to keep you informed. And many of the things we have written here are easily to access somewhere else, so I don't want to spend too much time on it. We are getting good steps forward in reducing its Scope 1 and 2 our CO2 emission. I would say, energy and media reduction in our Scope 3 at our customers is gaining every day more momentum. And I would say this is the biggest area where we believe the order intake will be driven in the future that all our customers are looking for reducing CO2 footprint, water consumption, name it.
And this will be a big innovation driver for us that we are gaining markets in the future. The third column, circular economy, and there we talk in particular about plastic littering, we are strengthening our recycling business. And one important thing for us, we are just doing a carve out of the whole business, which is still integrated as an independent company. We have aligned with new facilities. We are pulling the team together so that they can perform more as an independent company even outside of the beverage industry, which is important.
So those are the key messages into it. I could even refer on sustainable food, but for the time being, I think that's sufficient. And I have really to ask about your feedback in this regard, how deep we should go into and you might be able to talk to that with that regard to Olaf that we have an understanding how deep do you want to have the reporting on it. We have some numbers here that you see how we do reduce the Scope 1 and 2 emissions.
You see that in the middle of the slide, in 2023, we are, let me say, below the target we have set for CO2 reduction. So we are in line with the past for 2030. So all fine with that. And we could talk about ours about the program we have in place. And last but not least, here are our ratings. This is one of maybe not so satisfying things here because our ambition level is much higher than you see it here in the ratings. And this is something we work hard that we get on the ratings better.
Maybe we have overlooked some of the things which are important for those giving the ratings and the one just to make one example where we have been surprised for one of those we have gone step down just because we had not in [indiscernible] in transferred all our documentation in the local language. So that was one of the big reasons why we didn't get a step forward. That sounds strange. You are surprised by such feedback. But nevertheless, we have to take them and work on them that we get next time they are better performance.
So our point is we have a much higher ambition level and you're going to see that in the future. So last but not least, before I hand over to Uta and she will start with the revenue, just a few on our regions, how the markets have been performing. And #1, of course, I have to name North America, which is really still outstanding, doing extremely well and a lot is driven by the conversion from [ hot fill ] products, like Gatorade into aseptic that has been a big momentum. And in addition to I mean we told you for many, many years that the U.S. has most probably the most out-aged machinery equipment and line equipment. So this pays now back since a lot of customers have already invested and get their costs down, others have to do the same thing in order to compete with the cost level.
So that's the driving factor in North America. Asia, I have to mention because they picked up again. So they were the latest coming out of COVID-19. They are doing well, and you see that in the numbers.
Number three, I want to name China, which is a bit underperforming, but you might see that coming back over the year because order intake last year has been good. Even life cycle business is good in China and percentages is coming back more at the end of the year. So just to make it short, that's -- let me say, rough [indiscernible] I wanted to give in the beginning and over to Uta. Uta, it's your turn now.
Good afternoon, also from my side. I will continue -- or I will start with more explanation on revenue development. I mean, as you can see, with EUR 1.199 billion, we had a very, very strong quarter, a very strong quarter 1. We were above quarter 1, 2022 by EUR 212 million, 21.4%. And as you can also see and what we have written, this was the highest quarter ever Krones has achieved, and this was also higher than quarter 4, 2022.
Why did we realize that? I mean we started with a very high backlog. We already had outlined that our segments increased, as you will see with a very strong core. We -- as also in the previous quarters, continuous execution of our projects despite of the ongoing bottlenecks. And that's also important to mention, we had a very strong [ March ] also because of the very -- a lot of working days we had in March.
And we are above guidance if we look on a quarter-over-quarter comparison and -- but we believe that this is where the seasonal, and we'll come back to that later. EBITDA also here, strong development, 9.6%, EUR 114.9 million in the quarter and increased by 32% in comparison to last year's first quarter. And you can also see that from a margin perspective, we were higher than last year Q1 by 0.8 percentage points. And we were also higher than Q4 2022 and also, obviously higher, than Q4 in total.
Reasons being for that volume, of course, good utilization. I mean, we are not yet at the 100%, but we continue to be very good utilized, but also effectiveness of the price increases, which covers then the increases in material costs. With 9.6%, we are within the guidance we have given for the fiscal year 9% to 10%. Continuing with EBT. Also here, logically strong performance, EUR 83 million for the quarter, 6.9% higher than quarter 1 2022, as you can see by 51.7%, but also on a margin perspective, much higher.
Reasons are those I already gave for EBITDA on top of that because of our very good cash situation, but also because of the rising interest rates, we had a much better interest reside in Q1 '23 than we had in Q1 '22. Continuing on with personnel and material expense as the main categories of our profit and loss statement. Starting with personnel costs, you can see 29.7%, EUR 354 million. And with the 29.7% below the 30%, which is important for us, also about the range we had last fiscal year, for the whole fiscal year.
Overall, we have an increase. I mean Christoph already mentioned that we are successful in hiring people. And if we compare it on a quarter-over-quarter comparison, we have an average about 1,000 employees more, which accounts for a large portion of the increase in overall cost, but we also have included some parts of the tariff increases we will face in 2023. Material cost, EUR 589 million as an absolute volume. Of course, it increased significantly because volume increased. And you can see that 49.5%, we are about what we had already last year, 49.7% for the whole fiscal year. And that despite of the fact that we had higher new machine equipment in general. And it also shows that the effectiveness of the first price increases we did.
I already gave a first glimpse on employees in total. Looking at 31st of March, you see that Krones employees or employed 17,500 people. This is an increase by 336 in comparison to December 2022 or 2.0%. And as we already stated for 2022 as a full fiscal year, we have an overproportional increase outside of Germany. Here, we increased by 249 employees or 3.5%. And within Germany, Krones AG and other entities, our increase was below 1%.
Where did we increase this 336 people? Hungary, more than 100 to continue building up here to be able to deliver as forecasted as service technician to support our global service network, our LCS business, but also to be able to install our lines. Digital community, strong increase and also in the region in general, North America, South America or more or less all regions. After information on Krones as a total, I will continue with the three segments and start with the core filling and packaging technology.
I mean, as you can see, with [ 1.004 billion ] very strong quarter, EUR 179 million in addition compared to Q1 2022, which is 21.7% and which is clearly above the guidance we have given for the full year, not for the quarter, for the full year of 7% to 9%. And as it's also stated, revenue growth is driven primarily by new equipment sales, but we also had strong LCS business.
EBITDA, EUR 103 million, 10.3%. We are above last year in absolute values, but also in percentage points. We are above last year's quarter 1, but we are also above last year's 2022 as a total. We are within the guidance we have given 9% to 11% EBITDA margin. And the reasons I mentioned for the group in general, apply also here, I mean, volume good utilization effectiveness of the price increases, but also that what we already mentioned for the whole fiscal year 2022 that we were -- that the structural measures we have implemented are successful.
Process technology as our second or next segment. We have a revenue increase by EUR 12 million, which is 12% to EUR 110 million. This is slightly if you look on a quarter-over-quarter comparison, this is slightly below the guidance, but we believe this is seasonal and will come back to the guidance in January at you can see that the EBITDA margin and the EBITDA has a total value of EUR 7.1 million or 6.5% was strong and was stronger than last year and also last year quarter 1, but also stronger than last year as a full year. And also here a good utilization of the backlog or good utilization, good backlog and also discipline in pricing as well as cost are the reasons.
Last but not least, intralogistics, also here, EUR 24 million increase of revenue to EUR 85 million, 33%. We have a low base this quarter 1 2022 and looking at EBITDA, EUR 4.6 million as a total, higher in absolute terms as last year. If you look at the margin perspective, we are at 5.4%, which is about last year. And we all have in mind that the second half of the fiscal year is always the stronger one for intralogistics, and that's why we are slightly below the guidance.
So far for earnings, I want to continue with equity and liquidity. And yes, earnings translate into equity as we can see on the right part of the graph, you see that Krones increased equity by EUR 60 million to EUR 1.658 billion. That is an increase by 3.7%. On the other hand, our total of assets and liabilities to our balance sheet then increased by 4.9%, which leads to the fact that our equity ratio decreased slightly to 37.9%. But looking at it in absolute terms, we still have a very strong equity position.
Continuing on with cash and liquidity reserves. Cash, you see that we have a cash position as of end of March of EUR 645 million. If you compare it with December '22, you will notice that we have EUR 30 million less cash. So EUR 675 million last year, and we will come to that later in free cash flow explanations. Used credit lines are the [ same ] EUR 5 million; free credit lines, still strong, EUR 868 million, but also slightly lower than December '22.
And taking all together with EUR 1.513 billion, we have a strong liquidity. We have strong liquidity reserves, and this enables us to develop Krones further, but also to buy Ampco, for instance. Continuing on with working capital. I mean if we look at an average working capital over the last 4 quarters, you see that 17.9% in 2023, a further decrease in comparison to what we had in '22, but also in '23.
So as an average over the 4 quarters each. And you can see on the right side, where this is coming from. I mean, it's still driven by the highly received prepayments coming from the high order intake we have generated over the last month. It's now 23.1% so 1.7 percentage points higher than December. You see that inventory increased further slightly in percentage, 15.2, so 0.5 percentage points higher. And it's the same story as we had in the last quarter. We continue to slightly increase safety stock to be able to deliver payer base. This is also more -- it's decreasing slightly if we look at on a percentage, 15.6%. If you look at it on an absolute value, it's about the value we had also December '22. But as our average revenue is increasing, the ratio decreases. And receivables, you can clearly see that our business is picking up even more and more, 39.8% of revenue over the last 12 months, so 2.5 percentage points higher.
On an absolute value, you do not see this on this page. I mean Krones carried end of March, [ EUR 716 million ] working capital, which was an increase in comparison to December '22 by EUR 122 million. And this is exactly now coming also to the free cash flow development of Q1. This is the main driver that we have a negative free cash flow, but let me start with the top first of all. I mean, you see the very strong earnings also in comparison to 2022 and increase other noncash changes about the same as last year. And then you see the minus EUR 121.8 million. The number I just mentioned was the increase of working capital up to [ EUR 716 million ]. and other assets and liabilities, that's mainly among other things, mainly tax payments we also did in the first quarter. So we're taking all that together, Cash flow from operating activities is positive 13.7. But if you compare it to last year, it's about [ EUR 90 million ] because of the -- mainly by the effect of working capital. Continuing on to free cash flow, CapEx, EUR 35 million stronger than last year.
I mean this is also driven by some catch-up effects we had from 2022, but in general, we are strongly investing to develop our company further. Free cash flow, minus 21. If you recall the discussion we also had for Q4, where we already said also looking at the whole fiscal year, we expect a negative free cash flow. I will come to an outlook for the fiscal year in a second. And then together with finance activities, which is mainly leases, you see the net change in cash, which I have outlined earlier already by EUR 30 million from EUR 675 million to EUR 645 million. It's important for us to frame free cash flow on a longer multiyear perspective. And that's why also, as we did in Q4, we have shown here also '22 and '21. '22 was close to EUR 400 million free cash flow before M&A. That was a cash conversion rate of 213. In '21, it was 158. That's why we already, at that time, said that we expect negative free cash flow in 2023. That's also true for what we see right now. And for what we see right now, we expect a negative free cash flow in the upper two-digit figure. And it is, as already mentioned, because of the fact that we are consuming the cash for building the machines, delivering the machines where we have gotten prepayments for mainly last fiscal year, but it's also important for us to look at next year already. We have not yet done a full estimate for '24. But what we have done is we have taken all information we have from a growth perspective on the market and also have taken our MTP assumptions and taken altogether and also assuming -- not only assuming, but working on strong working capital management, we believe that 2024 will be positive and again and will not only be positive but will be positive on a normalized level, and that's what we also want to show with the very right bar. Last but not least from my side, return on capital employed. As our [ additional ] since 2 years key figure, 17.8%. I mean we had a strong EBIT, which is mainly driving the return on capital employed. And our capital employed as an average, did not change significantly compared to last year. That's why we have 17.8% and this is slightly above the guidance we have given of 15% to 17%. So far from my side.
Thank you, Uta. And just to the outlook, nothing surprising here. I mean we stay with all the statements we have made and in particular, on the growth side, we said already in the last call that we expect to be also on the -- on a good side rather than on the lower side. So it should be at around 10%, what we estimate at the moment. EBITDA margin guidance, we don't change and you have seen where we are after [ 3 ] months. So there should be some indication how we run the year, and ROCE is more or less the same statement. I mean what I can say, I said that earlier, we are, I would say, quite convinced that 2023 is working according to the guidance we have given with the facts we know today, it should be basically okay. Let me say, the only careful thing you hear in my voice is because of the experience of the last 3 years that things can happen, nobody has actually expected. That's the only thing why you see some -- maybe some not 100%. But all the facts we know, I would say, yes, we are going to do that. And I don't think we need to jump deeper into it. Just one more slide as you see how we do the guidance on the segments here, no surprises. I would say the only thing I have to mention is most probably intralogistics because you have seen that the EBITDA after Q1 was lower than the guidance, but we do see that this is catching up until the end of the year. It has a lot of seasonality in and it has, of course, product mix issues in which we don't see at the end of the year. All the rest, I would say, is in accordance with the guidance we have given. So first of all, here are the key takeaways as the last slide, but I don't think we have to do that once more. So I would say, thanks for listening, and we are now up to the questions you are going to have.
Thanks to Uta, Christoph for the details. So let's start the Q&A session. As you know, sent me a short e-mail or raise your hand and then I will hand over to you, and you can unmute your individual line. So I have the first question from the UBS, Sven Weier. Sven Weier, you are the first [indiscernible] your questions, please.
So the first one is really following up on what you said on order intake. The second quarter the pipeline, you said that's what we had in Q1. I mean, it strikes me as this will be a year where the order intake will be again above EUR 5 billion, probably not down more than 10%. Is that a fair assessment on what you see currently and what you summarized earlier?
Yes. I would say when we have explained why we went to, let me say, the lower order intake in the previous meetings. But for the time being, yes, we see it around EUR 5 billion. That's something we can assume.
And meanwhile we think, again, a bit about the investment drivers, right? I mean we discussed that plenty of times and you outlined this again what's driving the investment. I mean, of course, we also currently have a debate around who is actually driving inflation and the food and beverage industry is the foremost candidates. I mean what sales sense on how you might benefit from that? I mean I guess, nobody would assume that the beverage company buys a machine if they don't need it to, but I guess, what's your feeling? How much are these companies at the moment also willing to invest into higher spec, things that they would maybe normally be more saving on? And what's the [indiscernible] the willingness to spend up also on things that they normally don't buy?
My perception, and then I have to be very honest with that, my perception is close to zero. Why is that? I mean we see that orders -- the decision-making process is much longer than we have seen in the past and the [ thoroughful ] consideration whether the investment is bringing the payback has been never as tough as it is right now. And I have not seen one customer saying, okay, because of the, let me say, good pricing level, we might see in some markets because I would say only maybe 30% of our markets have the effect you just said. I would say the greater area of our markets do have the opposite perspective. And I said it earlier, I was together with one of the large U.S. customers this morning. . They are preparing actually for exactly the opposite. Their projection is, investments are now to be considered on how can we offer the market significant lower prices? And once the U.S. might jump into, let me say, more severe economical challenges than today with what cost level I can serve the markets that the consumer is still buying the product. So it's exactly the opposite. And this is actually true for North America and for most of our customers in Europe. I would say those taking advantage of the whole situation are the supermarket chains. It's not necessarily those supplying to the supermarket chains. And we see exactly the same thing in Europe. I mean, we have seen the toughest battle ever gaining from the bottlers, orders from the big supermarket chains. And usually, we have then [ 10 quotes ] out for the same -- for the same order because nobody knows who gets the order from one of these big supermarket chains. And I would say the prices in the past was maybe 3 to 6 months before they ordered.
Now it's 9 months because they are so careful. So I wouldn't see anything driven by, let me say, the market opportunity that they can get more money on something at the moment. They don't think that short. And second, we have 75 weeks of delivery time, which is painful, which allows them for the season at the moment of '25 to get a product from us into [ really ] production, if nothing special is arranged. And I would say with that perspective, everybody is quite careful.
Okay. That's interesting. And the final question I just had was because we just [ started ] the lead times. Basically, I understand you sold out until the end of Q3 2024. Is that right?
Yes. Correct.
And how does that differ in the divisions? I mean that's an average, right? If there's stock differences in the individual products?
Yes. I mean I would say it's more differs into product categories. If you want to have, let me say, a returnable filling line, this you still can get. I would say, the highest peak we have on PET lines where we are sold out. And if you look to the accordingly processing equipment, water treatment, mixes, UHTs processing, that is very much related to that. So we are in the same condition there. Some products on a single machine base or an intralogistics or in processing for some products, we have still space to deliver maybe in 12 months, but the majority is really that long.
The next ones are coming from Sebastian Growe from BNP Paribas.
It's quickly following on to Sven's questions around the demand side. So I would even say it's stretching order until it's '25 probably when it comes to your visibility. So the question that I have, and that's also going back to what clearly is discussed in equity markets. So simply how sustainable is this sort of demand? Because there's a lot of fear that at some point in time, this strong demand is likely to roll over. So if you could just share with us if the sort of market has simply found a new normal, which is settling than at this EUR 5 billion mark to put this number. And then we need to think of service adding another EUR 1 billion. So to what extent are you simply prepared to become a EUR 6 billion revenue company and probably what is the not too distant future?
I mean, first of all, what I can really share with you who is the fear that this might come up, and this is actually our biggest question, what do we do at the moment? We have a huge program in place like we did 2 years ago. that we have, let me say, on a very structural base discussions with the [indiscernible] levels of our customers because we want to understand their investment [ scheme ] on one side, what are the different categories? And how do they estimate the markets on a global base or if they are -- have a certain size, which is bigger on the domestic side? It's not yet fully done, I have really to say because we expect to have final results by end of Q2. But what we can say is that -- I mean, we don't have to misinterpret that. A proportion of that high order intake is coming from pricing. Don't misinterpret that. I mean we are saying crystal clear the proportion of it.
So that's one factor. And I would say this might stay to the level because we don't -- and we can argue that with the customers that we see no decrease in pricing because of the material cost we see for the next -- if we can predict that the next 12 to 18 months, quite stable. So that's [ one thing ]. But what is the investment scheme behind that? I said one thing earlier when we Sven Weier was asking everybody is looking for leaner cost structures. And since we have a lot of installed older equipment, I mean what we found out during the pandemic is that customers are running much longer on their lines than previously. And this actually hinders them getting on lower cost structure. So one big investment scheme, and this is going around the world is cost structure. And the second one is sustainability. And we usually look only on the CO2 emission, but for most of our customers, water consumption is the key issue.
The big breweries- if we talk to a big brewery in Mexico, it's the main discussion about what is the water consumption of it? And this is true for many countries in Africa and in Asia. So water consumption, let me say, sustainability use at all is a big issue. I look to North America, the aseptic order intake we have at the moment is driven by converting high weight PET bottles with [ hot fill ] into low weight or lower weight PET bottles with aseptic filling. So it's about sustainability. The second scheme. And again, since our customers taking their sustainability targets very serious. We believe this is a mid- and long-term investment scheme. And then I would say, markets are still consuming more. That's because of all the things we explained in the past, population is growing [ urbanization ] is going to be bigger.
And yes, they have less money to spend because of the circumstances. And again, this drives our customers to have lower cost structures. So there is even consumption going up in many markets and the demand is going up with that in volume, and we need lower cost structures that they can address it. And I would say this is the overall investment scheme we see around the world. I hope that answers your question.
Maybe just one quick follow-on to this, and then I have one question around the sales target. If you look at the pricing impact that you mentioned has, obviously, quite a significant impact on the order intake increase. Where do we stand? So kind of if you accumulate it like a 15% level or so as opposed to where we came from, if we take the EUR 4 billion as a yardstick, then 15% or so is kind of related to price? Would that be a fair statement? And then clearly the other question to it, is how much of that have we seen already? And how much is still coming through?
Yes. I think let me put it this way. I mean, we have done two official price increases on, let me say, the new machine base and just take them very simple as around 4%. Each one -- and one was a bit higher. And then we did a couple of nitty gritty things into that. So it's roughly 10% on the new machines. Just over the course of the -- I mean the first one was in August 2021. When you look from the cost coming there to today, and we have done some minor adjustments in addition, and that's why I'm coming even in case if you add those two up, are lower than 10, it's around 10% we see. Then we have life cycle where we have a different pricing where we are, let me say, every 3 to 6 months doing a pricing, which would be in a comparable range a bit lower, not so high.
And on intralogistics and processing we do any case-by-case pricing with the anticipation of the material costs in the future once the orders are executed. So that's actually the level we have. And we are going to see in the revenues 2023, around 25% to 30% of the growth is in pricing. So just to make it easy, if we grow EUR 100 million, it would be around EUR 30 million out of pricing.
Okay. And if I then take your prior statements, by the word, and that would mean that we still have leftover for '24, which is probably another 30% plus or so from pricing, right, of anything that you might broaden?
Good question. Yes, there is, of course, left over a good proportion of the pricing into 2024 at least for the new machines of that [ proportion ].
Understood. If we then move on to sales and just very quickly. So on that 8% to 11% growth corridor that you said EUR 4.6 billion, EUR 4.7 billion, you start the year with [ 1.2 ]. So obviously, what if I can take it very, very hard by just calculating what it means in terms of what is left a slowdown -- a slowdown that we haven't really seen before, a slowdown, which would also not necessarily easy to be squared up with what you say in terms of improving supply chain. So what's your thinking simply what I'm misunderstanding eventually?
Yes. Don't underestimate for us how much it counts, how many working days a month has. And March was by far the strongest month in the year. So every day is counting. And every day, we are generating revenue. So don't underestimate that. And then we start pretty good into the new year, where we had a good basis already where we already had, let me say, some start-ups, which we could utilize for the revenues in Q1. And I would say then another thing happened. We had quite good parts supply by the end of the year, which we could utilize in Q1. But unfortunately, and this is really something which was surprising us that the part supply was slipping a bit of our suppliers. This is now justified again. So we are back on track with that. And with the look on that and the working days we see in Q2 and in Q3, I mean, that's a relatively easy estimate why we are not as high in the quarters as we have been in the first one. We do believe that we are in good shape to what we said, the 10% growth. And let's see how the part supply is going because this is really essential. And it has so various aspects. It's not one supplier, it's many suppliers. It's not this supplier only for one region, there's another supplier for another region. So this is quite complex. And if that goes right, when there's certainly some potential up, but it's too early really to say that.
Okay. And then the very last one for me, given that you have the orders stretching out so far, is there any sort of potential pitfalls, risks that go along with it because of this very, very long sort of from order taking to ultimately on the revenue execution?
I mean most probably, that's [ Uta and mine ] every day question mark we have what kind of risk could be in there. But I mean, if we look back over the last 12 months or 18 months dealing with, let me say, maybe material costs, which is going out of the frame, not anticipated personnel cost increase I think whatever we can see what -- as of today and have really a very careful look into that. I would say we can't see the surprises.
I have some -- Mr. Benjamin Thielmann from Bernberg have some questions. So Benjamin, your questions, please?
Actually, most of my questions were already answered by the questions before. So maybe I just have 1 or 2 questions left. First question to Mr. Klenk, I think you already answered it somewhere in between current lead times are at roughly 75 weeks. Is that correct?
Yes.
Okay. And you mentioned at the beginning that this might be a little bit higher compared to your peers about what numbers are we speaking here? When you mentioned that 75 weeks is a phase above your peers? Are they currently at 70, 65 weeks? Or is there a significant difference?
I can't answer that really in that manner because we see some projects where they are promised better delivery times, and this might be because they have [indiscernible] slot free maybe where they can offer it. I would say they are maybe 2 or 3 months better than we are, so 10 to 12 weeks what we can estimate, but it's not so clearly to be seen. And I would say some of those orders we lose are has most probably more to do with good slots they can utilize for something relatively quick, which might be not the average. But in average, I would count they're up to 2 to 3 months better than we are.
I'm looking at my e-mail folder for new questioners, but -- and also if somebody wants to raise his hands in the teams channel. Yes, I got Peter, Peter Rothenaicher from the Baader Bank. Peter, your questions, please?
Coming also to this point, when you are now taking projects for 2025. So we all know for the current year, okay, we have the agreements regarding wages. But for 2024 and 2025, to what extent are you able now to calculate in further significant wage increases? Is this reflected then in higher prices which you have to demand and for these projects, which will be executed in 2025?
I mean, as you said, for 2023 we already know the impacts and have done also covered, and we also believe that what we have currently in the backlog and the assumptions we are taking, we are covered for 2024. I mean when it comes from material costs, we also see, I mean, a slight decrease in the market. That's something we are also counting on -- so I mean, with all we can see right now, we believe we are covered, and we are also considering increases in cost.
Yes. I mean as we always did. We have, in the meantime, a very good routine to say every 4 weeks, we look in the, let me say, the long-term possible developments and reflect them into our pricing. Decisions are not yet made because I would say we are still at end of Q1 for 2024 with [indiscernible] delivery. So that gives us a bit of room since the Chairman, let me say, [indiscernible] until end of September 2024. So I would say this is certainly a next consideration with [ Uta ] and I have where we have to look into and make sure that we are aligned with what might come up.
Okay. Then regarding your recently announced acquisition in the U.S. So it's now in the component business with pumps. If I think back some years ago, there was already a topic that you did intend to increase your own production of components also for external sales. What is your situation here? So how big is the share of component sales to external partners? And with the new acquisition, what is the split then of components, pumps you would use by yourself? And what is the external sales?
Okay. First of the existing business. So today, we have around 25% sales to the external in the component -- existing component business compared to what we are going to use ourselves into our projects. And this is growing year-by-year because we have, of course, our sales structure organized the way that we are gaining for our customers on an independent base. And of course, our aftermarket business is growing as well because with the installed base, we do there now for what, something like 13 years the installed base is quite nice. And if -- with the acquisition of Ampco, the pumps, I would say that's a relatively small proportion, which we are going to take from them into our products. I would say, between 5% and 8%, something like that is the ratio we are going to take ourselves so that will give a bit of a momentum to them. Because up to now, we buy close to 0, but this is something we are going to change.
But I would say the bigger proportion for us, and this is really interesting, the sales channels they have, this will enable our existing component business, much more to be transferred to those markets where Ampco is strong. So of course, we wanted to buy components because of nice profitability, no secret. But the second thing we bought is sales know-how in channels for components and access to those channels. So if you look to the, let me say, the synergies we are taking, they are very strong in the Americas and have there the ability to go into the sales channels. We are strong in Europe, not so strong in Asia, to be honest. But Europe, we can utilize our sales channels to take their products, which have been not strong. So I would say that was a perfect fit for us, and we believe that we have together really good chances to grow the one or the other business stronger than on a stand-alone basis.
Okay. And in which segments will Ampco be found within the core business or process technology?
I would say you see them to some extent in our [ fillers ] to a very small extent, you will see them mainly in processing. But since there are -- let me say, they have a very wide customer range, so they're even outside of the beverage industry. They are in pharmaceuticals. They're in healthcare. They are in offshore business. So they are in various businesses. So you see them everywhere actually.
And when can we expect that [indiscernible].
You mean do we see them in the segment?
In the segment.
In the Processing segment.
And do you then expect or target to expand this kind of acquisitions to get even stronger than in the components business with [ further ] acquisitions.
Yes, that was the big plan for the last 8 years already, but it failed because we didn't find somebody really reasonable to buy. I mean we have been very lucky that this went out with Ampco, it was a very long journey, I have to say. We got that accomplished. Yes, in case there would be an option out there, we would do that, yes.
Possibly also in Asia?
Yes, of course, we are not limited in terms of reaches.
I see also now Daniel Gleim from Stifel. Daniel, your questions, please.
Can you hear me well?
Yes.
Yes. I was a little bit late to call. So apologies if I repeat something you already answered. I've seen on your slide, on the order intake that you have commented that there's a good order situation for '23, but you expect it to be below the unusual amount of '22. And I was wondering whether we could narrow that guidance a little bit. So maybe you could scale your expectation for '23 orders maybe with a book-to-bill or if you compare it to the 2021 level, that would be rather helpful.
The book-to-bill ratio above 1 for 2023. And most probably I said it's more diplomatic, but I would say we see it closer to EUR 5 billion rather than EUR 4.8 billion, which we have given as, let me say, as a rough number for what we believe to see. Yes. So I would say what we see is that the pipeline is good. I mean, first quarter was much better than expected. Q2 looks good as well, might be not at the same level as Q1, but certainly above the average target in the quarter. So I see -- we see it and together closer to the EUR 5 billion and are still optimistic that the year is going to perform quite well.
Maybe qualitatively, maybe you can explain a little bit what you're seeing on the customer front. If we think about small versus large customers where do we stand in the investment cycle? What I'm trying to get my head around is how long can this boom, I would call it actually last? And how do you see your delivery times narrowing down the road. So if you think it may be beyond '23, maybe you can share your thoughts on that front as well.
I mean, I said it earlier, so we are clarifying that around the world at the moment to talk to our customers to figure out the mid- and long-term perspective. But what we hear up to now is that the investment schemes are basically coming down to two things: Number one is sustainability; and second, cost structures. All of our customers see actually are afraid of downswing in the markets and pressure on consumer pricing. And that's the reason why they're looking so strong into cost reduction programs. And I would say those having good cash flows are utilizing that at the moment against those being not so strong. So we see that in particular, when customers are smaller and having -- let me say, smaller markets that those being in good shape in terms of free cash flow and their financial status that are going to invest and outperform most probably those who are not able to invest that strong. We see change in the landscape, of course, towards the bigger ones because usually withstand the cash flows are better and the financial stability is higher. So this is how I would judge that. But again, these are the two driving factors beyond, let me say, 2023 and 2024. Now delivery times is an issue for us. Number one, I said it earlier, competition might be 2 to 3 months better than we are, but this is not our big concern. Our big concern is that customers are hesitating with that long view on what they have to order that they cannot really could predict the future and what investment would be good for them or not. So lead times are an issue. And this is one of the most important points we're working on. So we have considered ourselves what would be the optimum lead time in terms our customers can still plan and have a reasonable visibility and for us because we don't believe that what we had in the past 4 to 6 months is the right one.
We believe more of the 8 to 10 months because everybody gives that more security, more cost optimized. So our biggest point is, how can we get in the fastest way down to that shorter delivery times without increasing our headcount, like [ how ] that in case we see a downswing that we have not too many people on board and have to act like we did in '20 and 2021. So that's -- let me say, where we are with that. But lead times are an issue, and this is one -- the one giving us at the moment despite material supply, the biggest headache.
One last question on the material supply. Can you give us a hint of what product category or what kind of subcomponents saw decline in availability that you mentioned earlier? Was this electronic components controller or what are we looking at?
I can give it to you by [ partner ] because that's the everyday thing we do. Just joking. Because that's really something we look into supply by supplier, category by category and in particular, our electrical components are the big issue. This, we have built down to any supplier from the big to the small one. And the thing is, they are doing much better than mid of last year, but then it was a downswing after Q1 because I think that I believe now everything is okay, and they went out of this, I would call it, emergency management and went back to their usual routine, which led to the case that I would say, their supply chain didn't work, again, not the right way. So we have been let down a bit in Q1. I have to be honest, that's really a pity for us. But I would say on a day-to-day basis, we can manage it. Still, we are not on the level we need. And I mean maybe Olaf has said that to many of you, at the moment, we are utilizing our supply chain by 90% plus just because of that case, we still wait to get and its electric components, electric components, electrical components, electrical components. We still wait to get those to catch up with the problems we had in the past where we have still to close gaps. And second, that we can hopefully build machines then together again and finalize them the way we want to do that things are getting, again, flawless into the market.
I'm looking at my channels. I don't see any mails regarding questions. We're also running that we have a 1-hour call here. I don't see any hand raising. So perhaps, Christoph, no further questions from the audience. Perhaps your final -- or some final words about...
I think Uta gets the final word.
I think we all see that it was a very good quarter for us. And I personally, of course, I'm also quite happy to start with such a quarter. I mean, market development continues to be strong. We talked about quarter 2 already. If you want to find something which maybe is a bit negative, of course, that's for all of us free cash flow. And this is also what we are discussing internally a lot. How can we make sure that it is just a onetime thing and how can we also limit it. But overall, we believe that this was a very good strong -- a very good quarter and that we believe in the guidance and confirm it.
Yes. Yes. Thanks to both. Thanks to you all that you give us a chance to present our figures of the first quarter. So next conference call will be beginning 1st of August. Yes, and then have a good day still these next interesting figures. Thanks a lot, and goodbye.
Have a nice weekend. Bye.