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Thank you, operator. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to our Q3 and 9 months 2020 results conference call. My name is Stephan Gramkow. And here with me today, I have our CFO, Martin Mildner; and my colleague, Dominic Grossman. Martin Mildner will first take you through the Q3 presentation, and we are happy to answer any questions afterwards. Martin, please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you, Stephan. It's a pleasure for me to welcome all of you to our 9 months results, analyst and investor webcast. As my colleague already mentioned, and as you probably already heard, I took over the responsibility as the group CFO from Frank Krause, this in effect as of the first of October 2020. We'd like to thank Frank for his work during the last 5 years. And we -- not only we, as a company, but also, I personally wish him all the best for his next business opportunity. So therefore, it means that this will be my first webcast, and I do not have to mention that this is a very exciting moment for me to guide you through our figures and latest developments of United Internet. But before I will start with presenting the 9-month figures to you, please let me state in advance that it was a pleasure for me to have already the opportunity to meet some of you, even not in person, but at least through a video conference 2 weeks ago. For all of you who were so far not able to meet me, please allow me to give you a brief background of my professional career to date. So I started in 1998, so already more than 22 years ago with KPMG as a lawyer and a certified tax adviser, advising clients on legal and tax-related transactions like M&A, IPOs, grease-outs, corporate restructuring and so on. But after the which has ordered the legal separation of the consulting and auditing business, in 2004, I joined one of the biggest law firms in Germany as an equity partner. But in 2007, I decided to switch over from the consulting business to go in-house within the auto group located in Hamburg, which is not only the number 2 e-commerce group in Germany after Amazon, but it's also one of the leading receivable management debt collection companies in Europe as well as the second biggest B2C parcel distribution company in Germany, France and U.K. Within the auto group, I had several responsibilities, such as heading the strategic M&A department, the real estate department, tax and legal department as well as being responsible, for example, for the compliance management system. So therefore, many of these former responsibilities are similar to my new responsibility within the United Internet. Besides these more operational related things, I was also a member of the Board in some of the most important portfolio companies within the auto group, where my task for me as a member of the company's Board was, and again, it is quite similar within -- now in the United Internet group, to work closely together with the management of the group companies, not only on the development of their strategic road map, but also on the financial aspects. For example, and I assume most of you know this company quite well, I was a Board member of [indiscernible] Logistics, who is delivering parcels from nearly all e-commerce companies in Europe to your home. Another example was my position as the shareholders representative with About You, one of the fastest-growing e-commerce companies in Europe, which are established together with the outstanding management of About You in 2013. We worked strongly together on the growth path during the following years, already 4 years later, in 2017, you probably know About You took the bestseller group from the Danish billionaire, Anders Povlsen as an investor on board. And with this transaction, we created the first unique one in Hamburg with a valuation above EUR 1 billion. And it's not a secret that there are rumors in the market that About You shall go public in the near future. Having said this, I think the decision of Ralph Dommermuth to take me on board as the new CFO of the United Internet group was driven by my broad experience in running and consolidating a group where several companies and brands are under 1 joint umbrella. So I think this was more than enough about myself and my former position. Let's switch over to the 9-month results of the United Internet Group. Before I will go into each segment of the group, let us start on Slide 3 with an overview of the most relevant KPIs of the group as of the September 30, 2020, which means the figures for the first 9 months of our fiscal year. So our revenues for the first 9 months reached EUR 3.985 billion, which leads to an increase of 3.4%. Please let me state already at this point that even if we announced last Thursday evening, an official reduction of our revenue forecast for the entire year from approximately 4% to approximately 3%, we have to say that the 3.4% growth is more than we expected at the beginning of this fiscal year, where we gave only an outlook of reaching the same level of revenues as we reached it last year, but I will come to our new outlook later on. Our EBITDA for the first 9 months is EUR 896.4 million, therefore, 5% below the 9 months in 2019. If you consider and we take out a positive onetime effect in 2019 due to the sale of a smaller book company, the decrease would not be 5%, but only 2.8% year-on-year. Moreover, in the first 9 months, the EBITDA was heavily impacted by a series of different effects, which are listed in the bottom of Slide 3. If you adjust the EBITDA by these effects, the comparable EBITDA did not decrease, but increased by 4.8% year-on-year. I will not mention every single effect, but I'd like to highlight 2 effects for you. On the one hand, the nearly EUR 20 million impact due to the corona pandemic; and on the other hand, the impact of EUR 35.4 million due to the situation already described in detail by Markus Huhn in the webcast of 1&1 Drillisch. The latter mentioned impact was the reason for our announcement in the last week of September 2020, where we announced a reduced forecast with respect to the reduction of the EBITDA from EUR 1.266 to EUR 1.180 billion in 2020. The hit in the EBITDA due to the before mentioned effects has consequently also had subsequent impact on the EBIT as well as on the earnings per share. The EBIT for the 9 -- for the first 9 months is EUR 541.6 million, and therefore, 7.8 below the EBIT of the first 9 months in 2019. The earnings per share before PPA and before the impairment of Tele Columbus is EUR 1.68, and therefore, 1.5% before -- below the first 9 months of 2019. So let's come first to the segment access. And I will start with Consumer Access, which is, as you know, related to the business of 1&1 Drillisch. In fact, that Markus Huhn from 1&1 Drillisch said in his webcast already this morning, some minutes ago, I will focus only on our key elements. During the first 9 months, there was an increase of 370,000 mobile Internet contracts coming from EUR 9.99 million at the end of 2019 up to 10.36 million contracts at the end of September 2020. On the other hand, we saw a small decrease of 20,000 broadband connection contracts coming from 4.34 million at the end of 2019 and 4.32 million contracts at the end of September 2020. If you have a look at the revenues of the segment, Consumer Access, for the first 9 months in 2020, we can consider that the most relevant service revenues increased by 2.6% to EUR 2,275.7 million (sic) [ EUR 2,257.7 million ], and are, therefore, in line with the announcement outlook of 1&1 Drillisch, even if there was -- even if there are a shortfall in the revenues in the range of EUR 16.4 million, due to the missing non-EU roaming fees. Please note that the reported revenues of the Consumer Access segment for the first 9 months in 2020 are in total, EUR 2.793 billion, which represents an increase of 3.1% compared to the 9 months revenues in 2019. Even if this growth is still much more than originally announced at the end of 2019 it is not in line with the updated outlook in August 2020, where 1&1 Drillisch announced for the entire year 2020, an increase of approximately 4% compared to 2019. This shortfall is driven by the low-margin hardware revenues, which on the one hand, increased in the first 9 months by 5.1% to EUR 535.1 million; but on the other hand, we saw a lower growth in the third quarter 2020, and we assume that this lower growth will continue in the fourth quarter as well. This development was the reason for 1&1 Drillisch to announce last Thursday, a new outlook for the year 2020 with a revenue growth of approximately 3% instead of approximately 4%, but they confirm the service revenue still in the range of approximately 2% to 3% as well. If you have a look on Slide 7, you can see that the EBITDA of Consumer Access decreased in the first 9 months by 9.8% to EUR 485.6 million, but you can see as well that the EBITDA is highly influenced by a number of effects. Without these effects, the EBITDA would not be reduced, but be increased by 3.6%. As already mentioned earlier, particularly, there are 2 issues which has a deep impact on the EBITDA and which we like to highlight. First of all, an impact of more than EUR 17 million caused by the coronavirus pandemic; and secondly, an impact of EUR 35.4 million with respect to the invoice of Telefónica Germany in connection with the services under the MBA, MVNO contract for the period after June 30, 2020. I do not have to repeat that 1&1 Drillisch is of the strong opinion that the invoices are not in line either with the contract nor with the commitment of Telefónica vis-à-vis the European Commission. So let's switch over to the segment, Business Access, which is related to the business of [indiscernible]. The core business areas, which are B2B and wholesale are growing by 7.4% in the first 9 months. As you know, there are still some remaining mass market services within which are part of the still ongoing migration of these customers to 1&1 Drillisch. These services are intentionally declining, so that the overall revenues for the first 9 months only increased by 4% from EUR 352.5 to EUR 366.6 million. The EBITDA of the segment, Business Access ,was growing by 8.9% to EUR 114.3 million with a great 31.2% EBITDA margin. If you only count the core area of B2B and wholesale, the growth rate for the first 9 months would be 13.5%. So we are now coming to the segment applications, and we will start with Business Applications, which represent the business of 1&1 IONOS. IONOS increased its customer contracts in the first 9 months by 230,000 contracts. They have now 8.38 million contracts in total, nearly half of it coming from domestic business and the other half is coming from abroad. If you take a look on the revenues, we see a growth rate of 6.2% and total revenues of EUR 707.3 million for the first 9 months in 2020. Also with respect to the EBITDA, we see not only a good growing EBITDA of 7.5% to EUR 245.6 million in the first 9 months compared to the first 9 months of 2019, but also a very high and attractive EBITDA margin of 36%, even with marketing expenses of EUR 63.2 million in the first 9 months of 2020. So let's come to our last segment, Consumer Applications, which represent our Mail & Media business, especially with the strong brands, we have DE and GMX. Within consumer applications, we count more than 41 million accounts, whereof approximately 39 million are free accounts and 2.35 million are pay accounts. Of these 41 million accounts, more than 26 million accounts are linked to mobile usage, which could increase in the first month -- in the first 9 months by 1.5 million accounts. In fact that there was a significant decline in the online advertising business due to the coronavirus pandemic, the reduction in online marketing spending has direct impact on the revenues of consumer applications. So therefore, the revenues in the first 9 months decreased by 2% to EUR 180.9 million due to the corona related revenue losses compared to the previous year. Keeping these revenue losses beside, the revenue in the first 9 months would increase by 4.6% and shows us that we are on a very good rate with respect to the implementation of the revised business model of Mail & Media. We see nearly the same picture with respect to the EBITDA due to the fact that the pandemic related revenue losses will also lead to a nearly similar reduction of the EBITDA, so that the EBITDA is minus 1.6% for the first 9 months compared with the first 9 months in 2019. However, and compared with our companies in the same -- and with other companies in the same market, we think that the EBITDA of consumer application for the first 9 months is still on a good level with EUR 69.5 million and still with a strong EBITDA margin of 38.4%. If we exclude the pandemic effect, the EBITDA for the first 9 months would be increased by 3.5%. So let's go to page -- to Slide 17, where we summarized a few more KPIs as of September 30, 2020. First of all, I'd like to draw your attention to the CapEx, which is influenced by the prepayment of EUR 165 million in connection with the prolongation of the MBA MVNO contract with Telefónica. This prepayment is a onetime payment agreed under the MBA contract and the payment is linked to a period of 5 years. Secondly, I'd like to mention that our free cash flow in the third quarter. On the one hand, our free cash flow in the third quarter is influenced by the prepayment of EUR 165 million, which will reduce our free cash flow in the third quarter. Whereas, on the other hand, the delayed invoiced by Telefónica, which Markus Huhn already explained, leads also to a movement of the cash out from the third quarter to the fourth quarter. Last, but not least, I'd like to give you already a most likely forecast for the free cash flow of the fourth quarter 2020, which will probably become slightly negative due to free extraordinary items in the fourth quarter. First of all, the mentioned payment of the delayed invoice will be payable, not in Q3, but in Q4. Second, one of our promissory loan notes, so [indiscernible], will become due in December. And third, the regular annual payment for the 5G license will become due in December 2020 as well. So then we are coming to the outlook 2020. And there, I can mostly refer to our announcement last Thursday, where we said that our revenues expected rather with the growth subject to a similarly restrained demand trend in the hardware business in Q4. So we now expect a revenue growth of approximately 3% instead of 4%, which we announced in August. However, I'd like to mention again what I said at the beginning, that at the beginning of the year 2020, we announced only stable and not growing business. So therefore, I think even a revenue growth of 3% in this crucial situation of the pandemic is a good result. With respect to the EBITDA, we announced that we do not see any impact of the declining hardware business in Q4, which do not have any impact on the EBITDA. So that we are of the opinion that the EBITDA is still on the same level as we announced it in August 2020. So that is still EUR 1.180 million after EUR 1.266 million in the previous year. I thank you for this, and now we are coming to the Q&A.
Our first question is from Christian Fangmann, HSBC.
I have a question on Versatel. We have seen in the earlier part of the year, really some IT projects being stopped, some customers not really wanting anybody on their premise to get some installments. What's the current status? So are you catching up on those in Q4? So it is kind of the full year more or less on a normalized basis from -- versus your own expectations. And -- or is some of that actually postponed or delayed into early 2021? And can you give us a rough idea in terms of the outlook for Versatel in 2021 in terms of the revenue and EBITDA growth that you are currently foreseeing, at least roughly speaking. Are there further acceleration plans or not?
Christian, it's Stephan. So maybe on Versatel, first. So we have seen some catch-up effects for -- in the third quarter, where you can see also -- you can also see that in the coronavirus effect, which is now already smaller in Q3. Maybe a comment on Q4. As you might remember, we had, in the last couple of years, we always had the strongest quarter in Q4, where we -- because we had in the past, a very strong project business. That is now a bit more evenly spread over the course of the year. And for 2021, it's a bit too early to say. We are happy with the progress on Versatel, as you might have seen, there's the first time, double-digit growth. So hopefully, we can also see some further progress in the next year.
Our next question is from [ Yuni Sulana ] of Goldman Sachs
Firstly, on business applications. You've seen some quite strong top line growth, taking advantage of the COVID-19 pandemic. But potentially, could you give us some color on how much runway you have on the cross-sell opportunity that you see, given that you are really delivering revenue growth over and above the customer growth that you're seeing? And secondly, on Drillisch. Drillisch stated on the call earlier that they were exploring fixed wholesale opportunities with many players, including Tele Columbus. Is it fair to suggest that given you're invested in Tele Columbus, you wouldn't want them to monetize that infrastructure asset, given you seek to be a fixed wholesaler down the road potentially? Yes, just those two. Any color would be great.
Hi, it's Stefan. So on business applications, as you rightly said, so we have seen some good performance in the second quarter already. We had 120,000 net additions. So that has really peaked in the second quarter. Now 60,000 in Q3 is also a very good performance, given not where we're coming from. Regarding the products. So we have both good -- we have both seen good growth on the -- in our what we call [ audio gap ] products, domains websites. But we have also seen some good performance. People are asking for virtual private servers and for other cloud products. So it's really across the board, not just for 1 product. Even if we also -- and that was something we have mentioned in the second quarter, we have also seen a lot of SMBs starting with an entry offer being on a discount for this year. So this is why the full revenue growth is maybe not fully reflected in our current numbers. And then with regards to your second question, wholesale Tele Columbus. As you might remember, that's something we have been asked for a long time. We are happy that Tele Columbus seems to be now a bit more open to do a wholesale. But there wasn't anything we signed yet.
Our next question is from Mr. Bluestone, Crédit Suisse.
I just had a question on business apps. You had an acceleration in revenue growth, but EBITDA growth slowed because I guess you had, in particular, quite a tough comp when it came to marketing expenses. Could you maybe just comment a little bit about how you're currently looking at balancing growth versus margin in that business? Are you sort of generally willing to invest a bit more at the expense of margin to drive further accelerations in growth from the current sort of 6% that you've delivered? Or is this really the run rate we should currently be thinking about for the top line growth?
Thanks, Jakob. So as you rightly said, so the third quarter last year was a pretty tough comp because that was where -- the quarter where we spent -- our marketing spendings have been the lowest over the course of the last year. So going forward, we will try to balance growth and profitability. And the headline message, which is profitable growth, hasn't changed. Nevertheless, as you can see in our marketing expenses, we already spent, and that was something we started with the rebranding from 1&1 to IONOS, beginning of 2019 that we are happy to invest a bit more into marketing in absolute terms, but also as a percentage of sales. And so the one-off marketing expenses, which were linked to the rebranding, so that has started to fade out in the first quarter. So we -- the marketing spending you're currently seeing is just normal marketing, which -- partially for going for new customers, but also for the rebranding.
Our next question is from Martin Jungfleisch, Kepler Cheuvreux.
I guess, 2 questions from my side, please. First one is on the fiber business and the second one is on business applications. The first one on your fiber business, or Versatel. Your margin is now at around 31% in the segment. Could you provide some color what your target margins in this segment are and what drivers you see to reach that target margin? And then the second one is on business applications. Can you comment a bit what markets have performed better or worse in the third quarter, and how you would rate the competitive environment in this segment? So have you seen some pure application based players such as Shopify or [ Swicks ] being more successful in the quarter. That is it for my side.
Thank you, Martin. Maybe on your first question, FTTH, there's no target margin, but as you rightly said, we have seen something increase in the margin over the course of 2019 and 2020, which is the result of better scale. We also invested in the path, a lot into digitalization to get our network maps from printed paper to databases. And the result is what you can see in our margin improvement, but there's no clear target for the margin, but we are happy with the success so far. And then on your second question, competitive environment and also where -- which we have been in the market where we're growing a lot. Maybe first on the market. So Germany was strong. And then the other markets, where we were pretty good were Spain and the Netherlands. And I think our third place was the U.K., but there was -- this may be also interesting to hear, there was no market where we lost customers in the last 9 months. And maybe on the competitive environment, I think competition is maybe not the most important thing, it's more to get people on board. And we have seen a lot of SMBs asking for advice because maybe they have to close their retail store in the first lockdown, and then that was for them, the trigger point to ask for, I don't know, an additional shop maybe or any other digitalization where they need some help. And it's more about getting people on board, show them how to set up a website and what they can do online. And not so much the competitive environment.
Our next question is from Ulrich Rathe at Jefferies.
I also ask about the free accounts. They usually come sort of in big spurts and then they sort of peter out a bit. And then the spurts come through, and that happens usually in the fourth quarter. So I'm wondering why did this happen in the third quarter? And could you please explain the comment in the prepared remarks and sort of EUR 26 million linked to mobile. What exactly does that mean? To Drillisch mobile or just to mobile usage that you register when you sort of see people logging in, you're seeing they're actually doing that on a mobile device? And then what consequences does this have for your business? The second question, I mean, Stephan, you answered it to some extent, you said the marketing level, marketing spend level that you now have in the Business Applications business is sort of at normal levels. I mean just to confirm, with that, did you mean the third quarter? Or did you mean year-to-date? Because in the first quarter, obviously, it was almost twice as much as it is now in the third quarter. So what is a normal level of marketing spend on an annual sort of average? I understand there is some seasonality there, but does it include the first quarter or you really talked about the third quarter only?
Thanks, Ulrich. Maybe we'll start with your last question. So we -- in the full year 2019, we spent around EUR 97 million for marketing. So for this year, that might be a little bit less than last year. And for the fourth quarter, I would say, it's comparable to last year, and last year, we spent EUR 26 million in total, which was EUR 22 million normal marketing and EUR 4 million one-off. Yes? So for this year, you can assume something like, the same in the -- for the fourth quarter. Then mobile usage. If I understand your question correct. So here, we are referring to that people use the app because you can -- when you check your e-mail accounts, you can do it via desktop or via the app. And this EUR 26 million was for the year.
Okay. And why did the third quarter see this very high peak of free account intake, which is usually -- it's a fourth quarter sort of story for you?
I think this is a result from a slightly different usage. Because we count -- every month we count the free accounts from 0. And we only count them as a customer, when they really actively use their e-mail account. Otherwise, they are not counted, which means if a lot of people are not traveling because maybe they do not spend their summer holidays abroad, and they are at home or in the home office, and they are more often check their e-mails, so then there are more active accounts we can count. So that this is why the third quarter might have been a little bit different compared to the last years.
Our next question is from James Ratzer, New Street Research.
Martin, I've got 2 questions, please, about the kind of corporate structure of United Internet. Firstly, would just love to get your thoughts on having the free float outstanding in Drillisch. I mean, especially given how the shares have traded since the change in guidance compared to, I think, what your longer-term optimism about building out a 5G network. I was wondering what you saw as the benefits of having the Drillisch free float still in the market? And secondly, from a corporate structure point of view, again, just interested in your understanding on keeping Versatel within the United Internet Group rather than actually having that transferred into Drillisch? Wouldn't there be some synergy benefits from merging Versatel with 1&1 Drillisch.
Thank you for your question. And with respect to your first question, how we will think about the free float and Drillisch. I think we have a lot of things going on within our group. So we have the 5G discussion around the network and the negotiations with Telefónica. We have on the application side, of course, the question how we will go on with Warburg Pincus on the IONOS business. So there are a lot of different things we have to do in the next months and years for -- from the business side. So therefore, this is our main focus at the moment. So of course, the free float is always a discussion, it's always a question. But currently, we are really focusing on our business issues, and then we will see how we will go on. And with respect to your second question on Versatel. I think Markus Huhn already mentioned that Versatel is, of course, a key part of the network establishment for Drillisch. But of course, there is a clear link between both companies. But I do not know whether this always means that you have to put it into the -- under 1 umbrella of Drillisch company. I think every possibility is in the ballpark. And therefore, more or less the same answer, we will see how things will develop. And so it's one of the same company of the United Internet Group. And of course, it's a clear link to Drillisch. So I do not see any issue, whether it's on the left hand or on the right hand of our group. But clearly, it is a core competence for establishing the network. And therefore, there's a close relationship between both companies. And whether this will lead at the end of the day for a deeper integration or not, I think this is something which we have to see in the future.
Could I ask just as a follow-up on that second point, I mean, do you think there could be additional financial synergies from combining Versatel more deeply with Drillisch? Or are those, do you feel, already being captured through your controlling stake in Drillisch?
It's a good question, but I think this is also depending a little bit about how we will work on the establishment of the network. And the -- this is something for the next months, and of course, also maybe for the next years to see really what is -- how the network will look like and how both companies will work together from the operational side, but also from the financial side of the synergies and so on. So I would say it's too early to make a clear statement on this.
Our next question is from Polo Tang, UBS.
So just a few quick ones. Can you clarify where your stake in Drillisch stands today? So is it still at 75.1%? And the second question is really just about a potential IPO of your business applications unit. So is the plan or the thinking still to maybe IPO in 2021 or are there other options? And my final question would be, are there any circumstances where you would not proceed with a fourth mobile network build?
So let me start with the easy question. Our stake in Drillisch did not change. It's still 75%. So we did not acquire any shares. We did not sold any shares . So it's stable. Your second question regarding the IPO or potential IPO of IONOS. I think this question was raised already a lot of times in the past. And we always said that we are thinking opportunities together with Warburg Pincus. And currently, we see a good moment, of course, in the market for an IPO. The IPO windows are really good. But on the other hand, we see also a clear potential in the business of IONOS to grow it before thinking about any structuring issues. And if you look especially at the cloud business of IONOS, I think this is a really high-margin business with a lot of growth potential. And we also see also in the corona pandemic, a movement to more cloud driven demand from the customers. So therefore, from our point of view, we really will investigate in detail whether now it's already the right moment or not. But as I said, we are always flexible and open for different opportunities and different solutions. And therefore, we would not deny the one and the other solutions. So also the same answer as before. I think currently, the answer is too early -- to give you the right answers too early. And we are now together with Warburg Pincus and looking really for the right way for the application business, whether it's already the right time for an IPO or whether we should use the momentum for increasing the really big growing business in the cloud segment.
And the network build? Are there any circumstances where you would not proceed?
I missed this because this is clearly something which was already discussed in the call with Markus Huhn from 1&1 Drillisch. I can only repeat what he said and what Mr. Dommermuth is always saying. I think we clearly see the commitment from -- the demand from the European Commission that there should be another mobile operator, and we see a clear way to create a good new 5G network in a virtual way. So therefore, I would say there is no sign that we will not develop this network. The question is only how and when.
[Operator Instructions] We haven't received further questions. I will hand back to the speakers.
Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for attending our call today. Please do not hesitate to get in touch if you have any follow-up questions. Have a nice day. Stay safe, and goodbye.