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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to General Insurance Corporation of India Limited Q2 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Binay Sarda from Ernst & Young. Thank you, and over to you.
Thanks, Aman. Good morning to all the participants on the call, and thanks for joining this Q2 FY 2023 earnings call for General Insurance Corporation of India. Please note that we have mailed out the press release to everyone, and you can also see the results on our website, as well as it has been uploaded on the stock exchanges. In case if you have not received the same, you can write to us, and we'll be happy to send it over to you. Before we proceed with the call, let me remind you that the discussion may contain forward-looking statements that may involve known or unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors. It must be viewed in conjunction with our businesses that would cause future results performance or achievement to differ significantly from what is expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. To take us through the results of this quarter and answer our questions, we have with us the management of GIC represented by Mr. Devesh Srivastava, Chairman and Managing Director; and other top members of the management. We'll be starting the call with a brief overview of the quarter gone past and then we'll begin with the Q&A session. With that said, I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Devesh Srivastava. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Binay Ji. Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to announce the financial performance for the quarter ended September 30th, 2022. Coming to the results, the underwriting performance was impacted on the back of challenging external environment. However, we continue taking necessary measures to bring down the incurred claims ratio and improve our overall profitability. Also, it has been a constant endeavor to bring our combined ratio below [ 100% ], and we are continuously taking appropriate steps to achieve the same. Let me now take you through some of the key highlights of the financial performance. The gross premium income of the company was INR 8,100 crores for Q2 FY '23, as compared to INR 8,374 crores for Q2, FY '22. The investment income increased to INR 3,206 crores in Q2 FY '23, as compared to INR 2,669 crores in Q2 FY '22. Incurred claims ratio increased to 97.5% in Q2 FY '23, as compared to 92.2% in Q2, FY '22. Combined ratio in Q2 FY '23 stood -- reduced at 117.89% versus 122.19% for Q2, FY '22. The adjusted combined ratio by taking into consideration the policyholders' investment income, works out to 92.07% for H1, FY '23, as compared to 104.4% in H1, FY '22. Profit before tax increased to INR 2,461 crores in Q2, FY '23, as against INR 1,213 crores in Q2, FY '22. And profit after tax increased to INR 1,859 crores in Q2, FY '23, as against INR 1,010 crores in Q2 FY '22. Solvency ratio increased to 2.25%, as on 30/9/2022, as compared to 1.88% as on 30/9/2021. Net worth of the company, without fair value change account, increased to INR 26,625 crores on 30/9/2022, as against INR 22,691 crores as on 30/9/2021. Net worth of the company, including fair value change account, increased to INR 59,203 crores on 30/9/2022, as against INR 55,088 crores, as on 30/9/2021. On the premium breakup, domestic premium for H1, FY '23 is INR 13,422 crores and the international is INR 5,699 crores. The percentage split is domestic 70% and international 30%. There is a degrowth in the domestic premium by 14%, while the international book has decreased by 19%. We continue to strive to bring down the combined ratio and remain confident of improved performance going forward in the coming quarters. Having given the highlights, we will now open the floor for questions from the interested parties. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Avinash from Emkay Global.
So 2 questions. The first one is on international business. I mean you have been speaking for many years that this should improve and you have the reason to be geographically diversified and hence the overseas business. But the record suggests that this business since the listing, the international business continues to be a drag on overall profitability, particularly, I mean, if we sort of include kind of overly [ up-looking ] channel business that we get from overseas of course, we have higher commission costs there as well. And of course, probably in those markets, we don't have the understanding -- standing, which you have in a domestic, where you are kind of the leader by a margin. So overseas business continue to be remain a drag, and that, of course, is evident even now that [indiscernible] I would say that, okay, very, very strong improvement Y-o-Y in terms of underwriting as far as domestic business is concerned, but overseas business remains a challenge. So what sort of a thought process there and what is sort of a realistic outlook there that, okay, if that business make sense? Or is it, I mean, good enough for you to be just in India because I mean India itself is geographically well diversified country. So I mean, there is not really [ as such thing ] concentration risks [ as such ]. So that's one question that, okay, what is the situation there and what's the realistic outlook on foreign business? That's one. Second is on your rating, that AM Best, probably, if I recall correct, it has downgraded the outlook from stable to negative probably [ with some ] comment around the auditor's observation. So if you can just clarify on that?
Avinash, to take your question on international business, yes, I do agree that international business has not been doing well in the earlier quarters, but there is a reason behind it. There have been hurricanes and other acts of God, which have actually impacted all reinsurers in the globe. We are not the only ones. But first, let us try to understand why does the insurer do international business in the first place, otherwise, you could easily have had a German reinsurer doing only German business and the U.K. reinsurer doing only U.K. business. The basic tenet of reinsurance is spread. As I always say, spread essentially as a thumb rule is that the premiums from America will offset your claims from Australia. In our own case, in GIC, we are doing business with over 160 countries and why do we do that because of the spread. You [ do mention ] about our [ clout ] and our muscle in the domestic market. Yes, we can write pretty much the entire domestic market. We have our clout there. But then it will make our portfolio very, very volatile. The reason why we do international business and have a long-term vision of making it [ 50%/50% ] that means 50% domestic and 50% foreign is that we need spread, which is a basic tenet of reinsurance. Now in the international business, we have seen these losses coming, which has also resulted in the market hardening. Now the 1st January renewals are almost at the doorstep and we have seen a distinct hardening in the market. Of course, the proof of the pudding will finally emerge in the 1st of January itself. But till then, we are seeing these trends emerge, and this is going to impact us very positively, as we get a higher premium for the same exposure. So this is something that is now ongoing. Second point, you raised about the rating [ bit ]. The outlook was primarily because of an audit qualification that we had on our 31st March balance sheet in which the statutory auditors had mentioned that the figures are not ascertainable, which as you see in this 30th September balance sheet, which they have pretty much diluted because they also understood that it is not such a sweeping statement that will be made that figures are not ascertainable, our figures are pretty much there. They have all been reconciled and booked and that is a continuous process, which is also in sync with the trade of reinsurance because here everything functions with a lag. The direct insurance companies and the reinsurers always have a lag. And that is why the figures also tend to follow that plan, which was the reason for the qualification, which now stands considerably diluted.
So just again, a follow-up on the first one. Again, I do appreciate the need of a wide geographic diversification, and that's why I mean, your reinsurance business is typically global in nature I understand. I understand there have been some challenges. But here, a couple of points again, vis-a-vis, if I compare you versus the top 5 whether say German, Swiss or Americans, the [ reinsurer ]. The point is that okay -- the -- considering the cost of acquisition that you have materially higher in overseas market versus domestic, it means that you are not getting the prices correct? Because I mean, if I were to look starting from 2017 to now, we are in FY '23, almost versus last 6 year, continuously, the overseas business has been running, if I recall correctly, [ 120% ] plus combined this year. That is not the case if I were to use the other peers, who are kind of globally diversified. So it means that, I mean, yes, for the kind of acquisition cost, you incur to source this overseas business, the pricing is not coming right for you, as compared to others. So how are you going to solve, even if market hardens, so others will also see improvement, you will see some improvement, but the performance or combined ratio gap between you versus the other global peers will remain still wide. So I mean that is what my question is that, okay, why in that kind of the gap existing. I mean, how can we expect to be competitive in the overseas market?
Sure, Avinash. I mean to answer your question again, you start [ through ] the year 2017. I mean these last 5 years have exactly been the worst 5 years possibly in the history of reinsurance. So it is a sheer coincidence, but that's how it is. And secondly, being a subscription market, we are not really at a disadvantage. But to give you a deeper insight, I'll request the General Manager, Mr. Hitesh Joshi to come in here.
Avinash, the first thing I think of probably you can readily recognize from the figures that there is a clear degrowth in the international gross premium figures. And I think that growth is fairly substantial. Secondly, this growth is not fully apparent even if the premium is flat for international, there is -- in real terms, there is a degrowth because there is exchange rate depreciation. So I mean, I'm also essentially responding to your first question, where you said what are we doing about international? There is a distinct degrowth, and that degrowth is not fully apparent because of depreciation. Coming to the deductions, I don't think that we are at a disadvantage, [ yes, sir ] already mentioned, that it is a subscription market. So deductions are same for usually all the participants on a given placement. If you compare it with India, I think probably the comparison with India is not appropriate. Reinsurance is essentially intermediary-driven business, globally, and it will continue to be so due to the peculiar circumstances of delayed opening of the market and broker share -- now -- I mean, brokers are given a bigger role over last -- opening up during last couple of decades. So the broker role is under evolution. Once the broker role fully evolves, probably one can expect that even domestic market, intermediary cost will match international cost to a fairly high degree. Does it answer?
Partly, sir. I mean, just my -- I mean, my concern was -- I mean your overseas combined ratio you vis-a-vis the -- say, Munich, Swiss, or Hannover over the last 5 years, 10 years, the gap is substantial and I think where I need sort of [ facts ].
Okay. Let me tell you one more thing. The point is, it is not absolutely -- it's not at all correct to compare us with the Hannover and all these biggies because there is a fundamental difference in the portfolio composition. I think this has been discussed in earlier earnings call also and one-to-one call -- one-to-one discussions and group meetings with the investors that their portfolios is essentially driven by the developed market economies, where there is no investment income, and there is a better price adequacy, better sophistication in rating. So say, what we essentially need to see is that for any biggie, what is their percentage composition or portfolio from South Asia? GIC book is predominantly Asia and Africa. So the dynamics of Asian-African rating will impact us more than they would be impacted.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital.
Sir, you alluded to the point that, that there is substantial rate hardening in the overseas market probably happening in Jan 2022 -- '23 sorry. Sir, just wanted to understand what kind of price hardening you are going to witness from the initial discussions what you have with the customers?
There is a confluence of factors and almost all -- each of the factors is pointing to a very significant hardening. And incidentally, at the same time, the alternative capital is withdrawing. So by and large, if you see the kind of press probably they are avoiding mentioning a particular rate in terms of hardening because when there is a very significant hardening, there will be tricks and what do you say, structuring and all kinds of tools will be deployed by the buyers and brokers to reduce the cost. So if -- at the risk of getting it wrong, if I have to put a figure, the industry participants are putting the hardening between say, 25% to 50%. But the real hardening will be reduced. Real hardening will be less because the buyers will end up retaining more, they will structure the program differently and all tools, which are available to retain the risk more and reduce the cost will be deployed.
Okay. But sir, even if I assume that some portion of restructuring will happen in the contract either by higher ratings and/or -- or higher deductible, then it should be easy to [indiscernible] this 25% to 50% will trickle down to at least 15% to 25% when it comes to real signing of the contract?
I would believe that it should be between 25% to 50% only on a risk-adjusted basis. What is not written by them is outside the industry. But the hardening will be to this extent. Buying less, they will reduce their incremental budget. But the hardening has to be essentially between 25% and 50%.
Sir, assume it is somewhere in between like -- like [ 30 percentage ] [indiscernible] and given we -- our combined is almost closer to [ 125 to 130 ] in the overseas business in 1H FY '22 -- '23 and assume same amount of cat events happen next year also. Sir, with this kind of a price hike on risk injected basis you believe that we might be at 100% combined next year [ for the overseas ] business assuming -- assuming same amount of cat, what you have witnessed today happens next year too?
I think one can expect that, but I would not like to endorse it fully.
Fair point. And sir, can you actually quantify the amount of cat losses you witnessed both in domestic and overseas market in the current quarter? Because I believe that is one of the reasons why you have higher combined in the current quarter compared to previous quarter. So if you can quantify the exact loss, how much you have incurred both in overseas and domestic market?
For hurricane Ian, we have provided $50 million. For typhoon Josie and there is one more typhoon, we have provided $20 million. There is also another cyclone, Fiona, we have provided something like $15 million.
Sir, I mean, cat event is closer to the -- overseas cat events is closer to $85 million to $90 million. That's the way I need to understand, right, all categories put together.
Correct. Correct.
Okay. And domestic, sir, I mean, given Bangalore floods were there and so and so forth, so any provisioning there, mid?
Domestic, there is some results strengthening done for the agri for previous years. Otherwise, current underwriting year for agri is going better than what is reflected in the figures.
Yes. The reason I'm asking, sir, is that if I look at motor -- motor combined for the domestic business, it has substantially deteriorated, actually, it is substantially higher even compared to 1Q. Sir, so just wondering, is it because of the floods situation, which played out during the second quarter.
I don't think that will be so meaningful. We are also further dipping -- I mean, we are further drilling into -- I mean, digging into the components, but essentially, it is obligatory.
See Sanketh, in our motor portfolio -- domestic motor portfolio, a large part of it, very, very large part of it is on obligatory cessions. Now with the motor OD premiums seeing a southward trend, the incurred claims for the current motor portfolio in the industry is running at 130 plus, which is getting reflected in our book as well.
Got it. And second fundamental question what I have is, sir, is the future of crop business. See, honestly, I think this is the last year of the contract, which was entered in 2020, 3 years is getting over. So I don't know, there is an indication that the entire structure of the contract will get changed from next Kharif onwards. So -- and if it moves towards 80-20 rule or on bid formula rule -- 80-110, sorry, rule -- bid formula rule, then should we -- is it safe to assume that crop as a business for you potentially can become 0 going ahead, at least domestic crop, PMFBY, at least?
No, what will become 0?
Domestic business, it becomes all 80-110.
No, I think they will still need to -- for the purpose of solvency and better risk management, they will continue to buy. The degree of reinsurance required will of course go down, but it will not vanish.
No, you might get obligatory part, sir. Other than the obligatory part, I mean 80-110, if there is no reinsurance costs, there is no external cost for the primary companies. Do you see a reason for a primary company to come and reinsure with you still if it is 80-110 rule?
Some of them still do. Some of them still buy cover, so some of -- I mean reinsurance is still...
All are buying it.
Most are buying it.
Okay. But I'm asking a hypothetical question. But I think every -- as our country moves to 80-110 rule, I assume few people still buy the cover, potential size, assuming the same area get -- the yielding -- yield of the crop is similar compared to what it is today, then what -- to what extent the premium could fall?
Sanketh, see, crop insurance is something that really requires a very high degree of reinsurance. So even if you're talking about the hypothetical case in which the entire country moves to a 80-110, which is, I mean, highly, highly, highly improbable if you ask us. The point will remain that the numbers are so large that reinsurance will still be sought. And therefore, if you feel that the premiums of reinsurance on crop are going to become 0 at a future date, I really wouldn't subscribe to that view.
Okay. No, my point was that you did almost domestic crop last year of -- sorry, last year -- you did entire crop of last year almost of INR 79 crores, INR 100 crores or INR 8,000 crores. So that number if it remains same in the current year, with 80-110 rule that INR 8,000 crores can potentially become maybe INR 1,000 crore or INR 2,000 crore or it's -- definitely, it will not remain as big as it was in FY '22, that's the whole point I was asking.
Sanketh, even now, if you see the domestic, it is still INR 3,000 crores for that 30/9 result that we have published. It is still INR 3,000 crores.
Okay. Exactly, sir. Fair point. And another data-keeping question which I have is, sir, we have -- our investment yield in the current quarter was on the higher side. Can you break down the entire investment income of -- into capital gains, dividends and interest income, and if you can tell us how to see the investment income in subsequent second half?
Sanketh, just break up your question again. You want the investment income broken up?
Q2 standalone, dividend, interest, capital gains.
Interest, capital gain and dividend. Probably, if you can give the breakup, it will be useful, sir.
Q2 standalone.
For Q2 standalone, right?
Yes.
I'm Chandra here. So this income that we have on investments, about INR 2,100 crores is from interest and INR 600-odd crores is from dividend and the profit on the sale of securities is another INR 2,000 crores, so rounding off kind of. So that's the breakup.
Okay. But this number you are saying, is it for 1H, right, ma'am, or you are saying it for second quarter?
For as on date, half year.
For 6 months, right? Okay. Yes. Got it, ma'am. And finally, sir, what is regulator thinking on obligatory part? It has been reduced from 5 to 4. Do you see this number to come down to 3 to gradually almost 0, I mean, given you might be having an active discussion with the regulator, if you can give the thought process on how current regulator is looking or current Chairman is looking at the obligatory business?
See, Sanketh, obligatory was a huge number, almost 30% once upon a time. It has come down. Going forward, obviously, obligatory will become 0 one fine day, but that fine day is not yet here upon us. It is something that the data is contemplating, and final decision rests with the Government of India.
The next question is from the line of Deepika Mundra from JPMorgan.
Most of my questions have been answered. However, if I just look at your segmented disclosure, the fire segment, there seems to be a significant amount of underwriting loss that's potentially because of the cat events, but could you give us a sense as to how much of the fire portfolio is domestic versus international, and in both, what is the type of pricing action or price hardening that you're seeing?
Ma'am, the breakup is something I'll give you in a moment but before that, see, international portfolio, we have already spoken about it that the hurricane, especially Hurricane Ian has played a very major part in further hardening of the market. And as my colleague mentioned, we have also provided very generously for it. For Hurricane Ian, we have provided almost $50 million. Now your second question was also about the domestic rates. Now the domestic rates have -- GIC has already put in place the IIB rates for cessions to GIC treaties, which has held pretty well and that has seen that the rates have not only stabilized, but the market has stabilized to a very great extent, and that has helped the market get out to something that's more realistic in terms of rates. Otherwise, it was really going down south before that. So that step taken by GIC has helped the Indian in non-life insurance market in a very big way, I would say. And as for the breakup is, approximate would be how much is that? 57% is domestic and the balance 43% is the foreign.
In terms of the premium?
In terms of the premium, the total gross premium for fire, which is about INR 6,800-odd crores is 57-43.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Anupam Jain, as an individual investor.
I just wanted to understand what is the trend right now that is panning out in general insurance industry?
Anupam, if you talk about the trends, then it is a very large brush you want me to paint the canvas with. Let me try and tell you my thoughts about it. See, first start with the process that what is the raw material that we deal with. For us, the raw material clearly is risks because we are the risk managers, and where are those risks coming from, when industries and individuals identify those risks and then want to mitigate it. In our case, we have seen that, let's say a decade or maybe a decade and a half ago, there was no such post as a Chief Risk Officer in any company. Today, no company worth its salt can afford not to have a Chief Risk Manager. And what is the job of a Chief Risk Manager? To go around identifying risks and then ensure that they are mitigated. So for us, the raw material, the feed, is now coming in copious quantities. That is a very healthy trend. And then I'll give you one more example, the COVID. See, insurance has always been a push product, but COVID ensured that what decades of advertisement could not do for the non-life insurance industry, COVID did that. It put the purchase of our health insurance cover as something mandatory or almost something to be very seriously considered in every household, that, yes, this was, I mean, an expenditure that is worthwhile. So as we go forward, we are seeing more and more trend of people wanting to buy insurance as a good -- as a product to maintain their lifestyle, which for us is a very good sign. COVID is just a green shoot, but going forward, it's a very good sign for us. So by that if you talk about these trends, the trends are very good as far as the raw material, the feed, the income that is stable to us as penetration grows. The second thing I spoke about earlier was the hardening of the market, which is you could say an icing on the cake.
Yes. When this hardening could be like change, when the general trend could be basically the reinsurance market is kind of facing headwinds in developed market basically would?
See, these trends normally last 3 to 5 years. It is not something that is a switch that can be switched on and switched off. There are a lot of factors that go into hardening. As my colleague mentioned earlier as well, hardening comes from a variety of factors, which includes the inflation that the West is seeing, which includes the way the dollar is moving, and many other such factors. COVID, of course, has been a factor to that as well, and of course, the...
Yes. But we're definitely not in U.S. markets or any developed markets per se.
No, we are. As we have said that 30% of our book is the international book, 70% is domestic currently.
Yes, but you said Asia, Africa, did I hear something wrong? Asia majorly...
Yes, that is where our footprint is very deep and very strong.
Yes. So you are also in USA. So like you are also in developed market also, you are not only in Asia and Africa majorly?
Not at all, not at all. Pretty much. When we say that we've provided for Hurricane Ian, which hit the Florida coast, we provided a $50 million reserve for it, which shows you how much we are entrenched in the U.S. market.
Okay. And second question would be on investment income. So like, you gave a breakup of like INR 6,000-odd crores for H1. So for H2, will that be sustainable also?
Can you please repeat? I didn't get it very clearly.
Yes. You gave a breakup of INR 6,000 crore on H1 basis.
Yes.
Will that be sustainable on H2 basis also?
We expect...
Can we see that panning out?
Yes, sir. We expect it to continue because the current interest rate regime is supporting our investment income.
So we can go on an upward trajectory maybe?
Yes.
Okay. And other question would be, how is the underwriting losses that you are going to get panned out? How is that going to -- like from 1 year or 2, I think so, there is a change in shift that we are avoiding to underwriting businesses that we don't want to do, how is that going to pan out for GIC very specifically?
Anupam, I'm not very clear. You're saying that what are we trying to avoid?
Yes. Basically, we are trying to avoid the kind of business that we don't want to do.
Yes, that's correct.
Yes. So what is the trend on that?
So that is a trend that continues. See, it is not again something that irreversible. When you are set out on a path to get your combined at 100% or as close to 100% or below 100% as possible, you set for yourself certain goals and then you work assiduously towards it, exactly what we are doing. So the portfolio pruning, trying to get better risk returns is something that's ongoing.
Yes. But can you quantify your time line, maybe?
I think it is-- it will be a different answer in terms of the different segments. Say, for example, motor domestic, we will have a different take and motor foreign will have a different take. Similarly, for, say, fire, we have kind of presently price adequacy because of IIB, but fire foreign is a totally different ball game. So taking the holistic view, I think whatever pruning we have done during last 2 years plus, we can say that we have probably reached a point where we are happy with where we are and there cannot be -- there will not be most likely in every significant pruning of portfolio. Now probably, we are very close to the U-turn, and now, we'll be focusing on profitable growth.
The next question is from the line of Deepak Sonawane from Haitong Securities.
I have 2 questions. First is on the provision that we have created as of June that was around INR 160 crore for our legacy equity portfolio, right, for negative mark to market. So have we done some kind of reversal in this quarter, again this provisioning?
Just a moment.
Just a moment. Just hold on.
Yes. Sure, sir.
Can you please repeat the question because I'm not clear?
I mean last quarter, you stated that we have created around INR 160 crore provisioning against a negative mark-to-market on equity portfolio that has been lying with us, I mean since last 3 or 4 years. So coming to this quarter, have you reversed any of this amount?
No, we are maintaining a similar provision, maybe a couple of crores more. But the INR 1,600 crores is the same provision.
I don't think we can reverse it, it's continuous. Once it is done, it is done. It can only increase, it can't go down.
There is no significant change in that. The provision remains the same.
Okay. And my second question is in our hail portfolio, we have reported kind of a very good underwriting performance in Q2, but I could see that, is this underwriting performance has been because of a kind of lag effect that we witnessed every time, I mean the claim that has been reported intimated by direct insurers to us?
Deepak, the combined, which is how we measure our performance has come down from 138% last year September to 112% now. Obviously, that last year was pretty much COVID-affected.
[Operator Instructions] We have the follow-up question from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital.
I just wanted to understand the future tax rate because we paid -- we had 30% tax rate in Q1, now, we have 24% and honestly, the marginal tax rate for the country if you don't take any benefits, it's 25.2%. So I just wanted to understand how much of MAT Credit is leftover and when we will move to 25.2% and how you see for the full year the tax rate to be?
For the current year, basically, we have already moved to the lower rate. So currently, if we see that this is coming around 25.168%, so we have taken full benefit of MAT last year itself. So current rate is basically 25%. It's coming because of 22% rate and the surcharge and fees.
Okay. So for the full year, we can expect that number to be around 25-ish, right?
Yes. It will be around 25% because of 22% is the rate, 2% is the surcharge and 1.68% is something around -- 1.68% is fees.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference back to the management for the closing remarks. Thank you, and over to you.
Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for your interest. As we had stated earlier and we continue to maintain that stand that we are on a path of getting our entire business on a much more stronger footing that endeavor has continued and shall continue in the future as well. The market is offering us a lot of good opportunities as we see them coming, and we hope to do even better as we move forward. Thanks again, and goodbye, everyone. Have a lovely day ahead.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of General Insurance Corporation of India, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.