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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call of IRCTC hosted by Dolat Capital. [Operator Instructions] [Audio Gap]
EBITDA grew at 7% quarter-over-quarter, and EBITDA margin came to at 35.5% versus 37.8% in the second quarter of 2023. This is mostly due to the increase in the share of our catering business in the revenue from the operations which I shall be deliberating in the catering section. As I have shared earlier, with the headwinds of the pandemic behind and hopefully, the travel and hospitality industry is now looking forward for a much better financial year '23 and beyond. IRCTC's business segments can also look up to further improved performance in the change industry environment.
Let me now move to the business segments of the company. First is the Internet ticketing segment, which continued to demonstrate its resilience, and revenue for the quarter was nearly INR 300 crores and largely unchanged quarter-over-quarter. Despite the decline in the 2 ways reserve ticket booking, the year-over-year decline was just 3.8% on a year-over-year basis. The segment has shown its resiliency yet again. As regards the profitability is concerned, with quarter 3 business. And EBIT margins now coming at 84.2% versus unchanged over quarter-over-quarter basis and 84.8% on a year-over-year basis.
Let me just discuss about the catering segment, after slight quarter-over-quarter decline in the second quarter of this financial year, we got back to the quarter-over-quarter growth and revenue from this segment has come to INR 394 crores lower implying the growth of 17.9% quarter-over-quarter through though on a year-on-year basis, it grew at a rate of 2.8%. Also, the revenue for the catering segment is well ahead of our quarterly run rate in pre-COVID. EBIT margin for the segment came to 10.7% versus 10.6% on quarter-over-quarter and 5.5% on year-over-year.
Rail Neer, our packaged drinking water segment has seen the third quarter of this financial year revenue coming at INR 75.1 crore, which implies a growth of 4.3% on a quarter-over-quarter basis and year-over-basis growth is nearly 50%. That was a COVID impacted year. EBIT margins from this segment saw a good improvement this year to 11.8% versus 7.5% quarter-over-quarter basis and 10.1% on a year-over-year basis.
Tourism segment. In this quarter, quarter 3 of this financial year, the revenue share came to around INR 147.8 crore which implies a growth of 49% on quarter-over-quarter basis and a strong growth of more than 100% on a year-over-year basis. Importantly, the segment EBIT margin saw a sharp turnaround to Green On 10.8% versus a loss about 5.5% on quarter-over-quarter basis and 10.1% on a year-on-year basis. That is after pandemic.
For quarter 3 of this financial year, the network and the cash and the bank balances of the company remains at INR 2,494 crore and INR 2,133 crore, respectively at the end of this quarter. So that brings me to end of my opening remarks, where I have given you a brief highlight of the financial figures. We can now move to the question-answer session, please. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Deep Shah from B&K Securities.
Thanks for the opportunities. I wanted to understand a bit more on the catering segment. What is making these margins remain flat despite having record numbers, and how should we think about the margin trajectory or the pricing power that we have? That would be my first question.
See in catering, we have 3 segments, one is the mobile segment, another is the Static segment, another is e-Catering segment. In the mobile segment, we carry 2 types of things. One is the RSD train, that is Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Duronto, Vande Bharat, Gatimaan, et cetera, they fall in 1 category. These are the prepaid trains. And in these prepaid trains, our margins are very, very less. We only get the turnover less of the profit margins. That is why you will find, and you might have noticed that not many trains are being inaugurated on the prepaid format now. So you are getting more of a turnover, but less of the profit margin because entire revenue, which is -- our margins are not -- are nearly, I think, nearly only 10% in the catering. That gives the overall momentum, brings overall momentum to the catering business is nearly around 11% to 12% only if we add income from the other resources.
Ma'am, as a follow-up to this, could you give some update on this new initiative in catering that we had launched about having third-party providers deliver meals to the seats. I think that was with a much better margin, maybe 12% directly to us without any OpEx. Could you give some update on that? How has that been shaping up?
I would like to correct you, Deep, that the margins in the e-Catering segment are 15%, not the 12%, and this business is growing at a rapid pace. In the third quarter, we have nearly achieved on an average of a 40,000 meals a day as compared to our pre-COVID level also, we have surpassed all the pre-COVID levels also. Number of patrons have gone up from 310 to 327, vendors have also gone up. Aggregators have also been added, number of the food aggregators in the vendors have also gone up. We have also tied up with our B2C agents. That is MMT, Ixigo, Paytm, Goibibo, Railofy, et cetera. All these have contributed. Very recently, we have launched -- our first phase is the WhatsApp booking which is going to contribute further. As social media has become now a bay, a very important bay for tendering the online businesses. So we have taken a lead and for the first time we started working with Whatsapp and brought in the catering segment, so that our margin in this segment can improve.
[Operator Instructions] We have our next question from the line of Jinesh Joshi from Prabhudas Liladher.
I have a question on the catering segment. If I remember correctly, in the last quarter, our [PSV] and pantry car each was roughly generating [indiscernible] respectively. And you had also highlighted that a tender percent [indiscernible] was in pipeline. So what is the progress here in terms of tendering, and any plans to expand our pantry car [indiscernible]? And also as a follow-up, I think post the tariff hike which has happened in the catering segment, the consumer had an option to opt out of the meals. And there has been a considerable time since we have taken the price hike. So what kind of trend are you seeing with your the opt-out rate higher or lower?
First, I'll be answering your first question, Jinesh-ji. What is -- how many -- if there is improvement in the number of our trains? Yes, tendering process has gone further, not only the new trains, and trains which have been added recently in the Vande Bharat series. We have been able to award all the contracts. But in the all the trains, there's pantry cars are there, all those train contracts have been awarded. Now we will be going ahead with the -- we have also gone ahead far ahead in the [PSV] direction also where the catering cars are also not there.
In that segment, we have already awarded nearly 752 tenders. And out of that many -- most of the trains have commissioned their business. 84 LOA have been awarded, but the commencement has to take place because they have to deposit the security, et cetera. So you can say total train segment in the train side vending would be 836. And the trains with 452, when last time, in the last quarter, the train number was 440. Now this is 452. The trains with the pantry car. And the trains where the pantry car is not there, that is around 752. This makes the total numbers nearly 1,200 for these trains. Any train which is offered to IRCTC is awarded immediately because every train is a revenue with or without pantry car.
Then answer to your second question, that opt-out -- first question, that was your first question, second question was about the sales assessment. Sales assessment exercise has been completed. It is being consolidated because the impact is very varied in one go. In one go in the peak season more impact as we see, while in the other one, some impact has been seen. So some consolidation, and we are getting that audit done. Then we would be raising the invoice if required depending upon the thing because peak period we have completed. And now the nonpeak period is also almost done at various -- in the various trains. We are consolidating and maybe in the last quarter when we are concluding our financial results, we'll be giving you the entire information.
Then the opt-out percentage. The opt-out percentage varies from train to train. This opt-out percentage earlier was 10, then it rose to 20, now in few trains, it is 20 and few trains, it is still less. It all depends on the service level. When the service level in the train is good, then that percentage becomes less. But when the people look for more variety and the distances are long, people may opt. But if the e-catering option enroute is not available, so our effort is to convert this opt out percentage to the e-Catering. That is what we are doing. Because WhatsApp is available, that is why we have gone for the WhatsApp kind of a booking also so that we are in position to garner the loss revenue, which has gone out of our hands because of the opting out..
My second question is with respect to the privatization opportunity that call for running some 150 trains on 100 routes, which were identified. So is there any fresh update on that? I thought of asking this question because currently a lot of Vande Bharat stop is being rolled out. And just wanted to get a sense if this could lead to any further delay in that privatization plan.
The privatization was going to happen at the railway's end. Railway at that time had decided, then we had participated also. But we had almost won that tender. But that award was not concluded because the participation was low. After that, there is no bid floating or no tender document has been floated so I am not in a position to comment upon that. In case railway decides to float the tender, IRCTC is in readiness and our analysis may have to be updated a bit in the current scenario because many new trains are coming up, but catering for those trains is coming to IRCTC only, so we are gaining on both trains also.
One last bookkeeping question, what was the convenience revenue and number of the ticket books for the quarter?
The number of ticket books, surprisingly, we were earlier anticipating that would be going away with the 2 ways category, our overall booking will go down. But it is nearly the train. Our average booking in the year 2021 was 11.45 lakhs tickets. Now it is average booking of the last 3 quarters has been 11.89 tickets up. It is nearly the same. Though in the first quarter, it was a little more; then the second quarter, it went down; third quarter, it went down. So some impact of the second has been there. And our convenience fee has contributed nearly 67% of the revenue in the Internet ticketing segment and non-convenience fee resources have contributed to 33%. If you ask me the quarter this total revenue of the 9 months in the Internet ticketing, non-convenience fees was INR 604 crores. And from non-convenience fee, it has been INR 307 crores, putting together the total revenue from this segment has been INR 911 crores. And the profitability margin in the Internet ticketing segment has contributed at the same rate, highest ever margin revenue seen in this. And I think your last question was, can you please repeat?
The number of tickets booked you gave us the average number for the first 9 months, but if you can just give the absolute quantum for this quarter.
Q3 segment is 11.3. 11.3 lakh tickets.
We have our next question from the line of Shivam Kumar, an individual investor.
My question is regarding tourism sector that its margin is around 9%. Where do you see the future margin?
Yes. You might have noticed that IRCTC has launched the Bharat Gaurav Series. So in that series, we have already taken 8 weeks, 2 days we had already with that. So that gives the total inventory of 10 weeks. These are the theme-based rakes, which are going to be designed especially but earlier when we used to launch a route at times, we had difficulty in getting the rolling stock. So now we are in readiness and we have a -- tourism, a rolling stock which is customized through the tourist needs. So each rake can run as a -- minimum, it can run up to 240 days minimum. Maximum, it can go to 300 days also in a year.
So if you normally -- when we were doing Bharat Darshan and other trains, put together, we were not running more than 150 trains in a year. With these rakes, we would be running more than 300 trains in a year, rather more. We would be adding more. Many new circuits we are going to launch. We have already experimented few and you will find the new circuits in the pipeline. So that is going to give you an additional revenue of nearly INR 200 crores if everything goes right in the tourism sector and nothing adverse happens because hospitality is a very sensitive sector. And tourism is the worst affected. Anything goes wrong, your booking goes down. If everything goes right, then tourism has a bright future, not only the total revenue in this segment is going to rise, but the margins are also going to improve.
My second question is regarding railway. Any plan of increasing the price of bottle as when it was last revised also?
We have found some increase in the production cost of the Rail Neer because of the increase on the PET cost. That is the preform cost has gone up. So we are examining this. We are not yet sure how it is going to take forward. We are trying to make up with the increased volumes. Our plant is ready, anytime it can be commissioned. Simhadri is also ready, anytime it can be commissioned. Final bottle all licensing, petty licensing work is pending. We had thought of launching both of them in the month of January. But somehow, some licensing work is still pending. So we would be doing, trying to compete within this month or by March, we will be launching both. So we would be gaining by increasing the production. But the increase in the pricing, yes, we are working on, we are still examining. We'll let you know very soon.
And my last question is regarding the overall margin. Where do you see it stabilizing in FY '24 as it is consequently declining in last 7 quarters.
Last quarter, in 1 quarter, we are contributing nearly if you see the past quarter, the total revenue. And each quarter is giving nearly INR 850 crores. In the first quarter of this financial year, we had the revenue from the operations, revenue from all resources have been nearly INR 852 crores. In the second quarter, it was INR 805 crores. In the third quarter, it is INR 948 crores. Of course, this includes the taxation, this includes the interest part of it also.
So the next quarter is also going to be the same because the number of our trains is going to increase only. But our profile -- business profile is going to change because our contribution from the catering segment in the revenue portion is going to be higher than the Internet ticketing. If you ask me percentage contribution, the percentage contribution of the catering is going to increase and going to be nearly the pre-COVID levels. At that time, the catering was contributing nearly 45% of the revenue. And that revenue has a lower EBIT margin as compared to Internet ticketing. So overall, we may not be impacted and things are very good and very rosy. But our revenue pattern will change, our profitability pattern will change. But overall, we'll be a gainer. It looks good so far.
Pre-COVID margin was 37%, but it has come down now at 35% also.
Because catering business and the Internet ticketing business cannot be compared. That expenditure -- the Internet ticketing has less of a expenditure and catering has more -- a little more expenditure. You have to do monitoring, you have to provide all the kind of services. Manpower cost is also involved. So margin in that segment is nearly 12% only, 11% to 12%. And there it was 82%. If the revenue in that segment will rise, so certainly, overall impact will not be there, but the margin will be partially affected. But overall gain in the quarter will be there. That is what I said.
We have our next question from the line of Dhaval Doshi from IDBI Capital.
So I just have just 1 question on depreciation. If we look at it on a Q-o-Q perspective, it has reduced significantly. So just wanted to understand the reason behind it.
This was because we have done some provisioning.We had to do provisioning on advice of our auditors and accounting team. Excess provisioning for the depreciation had to be done.
And this provisioning was with respect to?
Some excess provisioning was done in the previous quarter that had to be reversed in the third quarter. So that is why it has changed.
Fourth quarter will be...
Fourth quarter will be okay.
And second question, in the notes in the financials, we have mentioned that this is an increase in catering tariff for the post and pre-paid trains, so if you could just give us some color as to when do we expect this to be received and what is the quantum of this?
Sales assessment is an exercise, which has been completed. We are concluding the results. So maybe in the next quarter, you will get all the results. It is a very big exercise. We have to do every train wise and all the needs. Most of the trains that we have completed, and we are going to publish the results soon, and the impact on the revenue also and the license fee.
We have our next question from the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital.
My question pertains to the tourism business. Can you share where this growth is largely coming from? Is it the tour package side where we have seen it? And do we expect this similar momentum in Q4 and more so in the holiday season in Q1?
It is going to be more, Rahul, because one is, the pandemic impact is over, right? Secondly, we have taken a peak of the train, which is again going to contribute in the next financial year because most of the trains will be put into operation either in the March end or the first week of April, or second week of April. So next year is going to be very good for the tourism. We got -- the increase in the revenue in this quarter has been because election trains went up. Many tourist trains, we run, we also run the [indiscernible] train. And we did well in the air packages also. And even in the luxury segment also, we have done very, very well. So Bharat Gaurav is a new fleet that we are adding to. And that fleet we have taken 10 rakes. Earlier, we were running only 100 to 150 trains in a year. Now we would be running nearly 300 trains. So you can see the impact that our revenue in this segment is going to be -- to achieve different sites.
And you said 300 trains now versus what was the previous number?
150 only. We are going to double our trains. Mass tourism is going to double.
And for Tejas, if you could share the operating metrics in terms of the revenues and profits of this Tejas during the quarter?
Tejas has done very well in this quarter because the festival season was also there and continue to do well. The overall revenue from the Tejas in this financial year, that is a total of 3 quarters comes out to be INR 115 crores and expenses have been nearly INR 98.61 crores. So the overall contribution of the Tejas is nearly INR 17.06 crores to the revenue.
Sure. And on the Rail Neer side, can you share the number of bottles produced during this quarter and previous quarter? And what we could do here to drive the business given that at the time of IPO, we said we are just doing 40%, 45% of the total demand. And now we have the capacity. But yes, the growth has happened. But where it could go once we improve the distribution of the current output that we have across regions?
The Rail Neer production, all plant utilization was running fine that's much better than just after pandemic. In fact, if you see the capacity utilization of all the plants, average is nearly 75%. And in spite of the fact that December, January, we have less of a demand. Now in the January also, we are running the plant at a capacity of nearly 70%, which used to be now 30%. We are storing the water to make the requirement of the summer also. We just stored water up to 6 months. All water will go by March.
If you ask me the total production that we have done, it is near 24 crores of bottles we have produced so far in this financial year. So we have done well in the Rail Neer segment because of the increase in the production cost, because of the preform rates, the margins have reduced, have been affected adversely in the Rail Neer segment. But we are still examining it. Now they have reduced in this quarter. Now the preform sizes have reduced in this quarter. So we will see the impact and the margin in segment will also improve. The new plants are ready, Rahul-ji. The plants will be ready, 2 of them will be commissioned within this financial year. We are waiting for 1 more license for both of them. So once they are ready, we are going to commission that.
Sure. And lastly, on the ticketing business, if you could give more input in terms of UPI mix right now and AC, non-AC mix, and any further breakup on the non-convenience part of the business?
Certainly. In Internet ticketing, the average booking has been nearly 11.89 tickets a day, and our revenue in this segment is INR 600 crores. This is more or less same. And the pattern in all the 3 quarters has been nearly same. That is INR 200 crores from the Internet ticketing. In spite of the fact that the 2 ways is not there. It has been the same. And our revenue from the non-convenience revenue forces has increased a bit. Whatever we have lost in the second time, that is being compensated by the non-convenience fee resources. As I mentioned in my earlier concall that we are going to increase that revenue to the maximum to the extent possible.
In the next 2 years, we'll have to bring this percentage, which is now 33% of the total Internet ticketing revenue to nearly 50%. Because 82% of the ticketing you have already got it and some increase you can anticipate, of course, because Internet circulation is still happening in the country. So we need to focus our resources on the non-convenience fee. That is 1 part of it. When we -- how many transactions are happening, what is the share of the UPI, it is nearly 32% UPI is happening 32%. And Second is booking is really the same in last 5 months, that is ranging between 12% to 13%. And your sleeper class is contributing the maximum. As of now, it is nearly, I think, 44%, followed by third AC which is 26.8% and nearly 13% is your second, and second AC is 6%. Like that the rest all is very meager. So and the phase which we are operating is nearly 3,500 where we are providing the bookings.
We have a next question from the line of Rohit Bahirwani from Vijit Global Securities.
My question is we had applied for a license of payment aggregator with RBI Payment. What is the status on that?
That is still being done. We have received some observations, so we'll let you know soon about this. But our revenue from the payment gateway as of PG, it has gone up. And if you see that, let me give you the exact figure. Total revenue from the iPay has been -- the total -- the net revenue to IRCTC earnings has been nearly, I think, INR 11.5 crores in the last 3 months. And our total revenue from -- which is contributing to the revenue also of the company has also gone up by a good number of margins. But till the time we were planning to open an aggregator. We had applied. We have received certain observations. Maybe we may have to do some changes in the company itself to get that license as our entire business will be impacted.
So any dates on that? By when we can expect that to be completed?
We don't know. We are applying to the third agency and people take 1 year to get it. So we have just started in that after we got the changes. We have received certain observations, we may have to do certain changes. However, over this in the first quarter, iPay contributed to INR 16 crores in the first quarter. Second quarter, INR 15 crores. In the third quarter, it was nearly INR 20 crores. So total contribution to the revenue has been nearly INR 51 crores. So by the end of this year, it will be nearly INR 80 crores. And the net profitability margin will be INR 12 crores. We are satisfied with the PG revenue till the time we get the license.
We'll take a question from the line of Pugas Manoharan an individual investor.
Like in the social media and in all the TVs, right? What we are hearing is the people are moving out left and right, right? So I just want to check on the listing that we have, flight, madam. I see like all the flights are booked and the rates are huge. So how are we doing in flight ticket booking and also OTAs, madam, how much revenue that will contribute to our ticketing with respect to hotels and flights?
So far in these -- put together in the -- all the 3 quarters, we have been able to -- we have done booking of INR 100 crores. And the segment that we have booked is nearly, I think, 14 lakhs or so. So bookings have gone up as compared we have achieved the pre-COVID level. And the corporate ticketing also we have done well. If you ask me the net margins left with IRCTC, it is nearly I think INR 14 crores approximately. INR 14 crores margins left with IRCTC.
Although we have also increased our fees in this segment, we have now achieved that level but the pricing is very high. And let's see, let's hope for the good. But our booking in this segment is now on the incremental side.
So how are faring with respect to competition, madam. Say, for example, if you give or throw a NIM rate, redBus in case of bus booking or EaseMyTrip in case of flight side, how complete we are? Are we like the least pricing or we are at par with them? Like how are we placed there madam in terms of competition?
That may not be an appropriate comparison I must say because they are not into the railway tourism. They are only in the train booking. We do mass tourism also. If you ask me the OTAs work, OTA has 4 types of books. One is the rail booking, another is the air booking, then is the bus booking and then is the other cab, et cetera, booking. And that just as the tour packages. As far as the tour segments are concerned, we are there in the all the segments. But inventory, it is not my own inventory. If you ask MakeMyTrip, they own redBus. If you ask -- take Confirmtkt, they have their own fleet of buses. What we do, we have tied up in the case of bus booking, we have tied up with the various state governments. We are tied with the AbhiBus. We have tied with the - tied up with your redBus also.
We are getting inventory through them only. But we have done well in the bus. And nearly one -- our net margin without much effort. And providing the last mile connectivity has been INR 1.1 crores approximately, we have earned. Total revenue that we contributed was nearly, I think, INR 42.64 crores -- INR 4.26 crores in the -- from October in the last quarter. So comparing myself with the MMT and that segment, the kind of a promotion they do, if I can spend that much expenditure, I may also get it. I think my balance sheet is not right, I will not comment on other.
Last question, madam. So is it like anything that we can evaluate this through a market share, total bookings, right, on the flights or whatever, right? And anything that we have. Is that like our market share is increasing that way you can see? Or that is also wrong assumption or wrong comparison?
It is very different, not a very -- I would not say the -- apple cannot be compared with oranges. We are going in a wrong direction. Every OTA has its own strength, like MMT has a strength in the air. While the other -- Yatra has a strength in the hotel. So I have a strength in mass tourism. So that's where I have a strength, where I'm more functionally capable, so we have started focusing in that in the markets, and we are bringing more and more trains. And we are trying to get nearly INR 250 crores as a revenue from that segment from the train movement.
Air booking is kind of -- we are OTA, we provide. We need to grow, I don't disagree with that. But at the same time, we have to see that all aspects are looked into. And so far we have a tie-up, we are also going to revise our tender conditions and see what best we can do in this direction. But focusing only on the bus and air may not be appropriate because we are a mass tourism leader. We have to see the masses.
Okay, sounds good, madam. And the last question, catering, madam. We said actually before we are speaking to one of the food aggregators, right? We have our own food aggregators, things that we are planning, right? Is that anything finalized or any update here, madam?
Yes, we are still working on that. We have started tieing up with many of the B2C partners, gradually. We are opening one by one. I mean our lead is increasing. We are increasing the number of station and the number of bookings. And the impact is also seen, we have recently opened a booking along with the WhatsApp. That is only as of now one-way communication, within 15 days, a 2-way communication will also going to happen. So we are taking all steps so that our booking in this form gets increased.
We'll take the last question from the line of Shivam Kumar, an individual investor.
My question is regarding the last quarter occupancy of IRCTC tour packages.
Last quarter, propensity of tour packages.
Yes, ma'am.
That has been good. That is why the revenue has been good.
How much occupancy? Suppose we have tour package for 100 people.
In air, we make a tour package of not more than 40, otherwise, the rates of the air will increase. So generally, we are able to sell all the inventories. And our rail tour package, for example, for Mumbai is doing excellent. Vaishno Devi package is also doing excellent. Few packages do very, very good. Fee packages where we don't get good response. We don't lose anything in that. We are not able to sell all the inventory. There are days when the days are bad, and the market is not conducive, we are not able to fill the entire inventory. But we don't lose in the rail tour packages. If the money gets revolved in the circuit, we release the berth 3 days ahead, so that the berth are released to the common public.
Thank you. I would now like to hand over the call to the management for closing comments. Over to you, ma'am.
Thank you very much to all the investors. You might have noticed that we have also declared a dividend which is -- so for the highest dividend. Interim dividend declared by IRCTC, that is INR 3.8 per share. And it is nearly 175% of the share capital. Hope that will bestow your confidence in IRCTC.
The company has just come out of the COVID, Things in the tourisms are getting improved. Our business lines are making -- showing certain modulation, so is our earnings pattern. But let me assure you on behalf of this company, that company continues to be a very good option to invest in. And the returns on this company are improving. And we are going to contribute -- we are going -- looking forward for a better Q4 and the entire financial year. Wishing you all the best, and requesting all of you to bestow your confidence in IRCTC as you have been doing in the past. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Dolat Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.