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Intrinsic Value is all-important and is the only logical way to evaluate the relative attractiveness of investments and businesses.
Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and welcome to the IRCTC Q4 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Dolat Capital. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Ryan. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Dolat Capital, we welcome you all to the Q4 and 12 months of fiscal '22 conference call of IRCTC Limited. I take this opportunity to welcome the management of IRCTC represented by Shrimati Rajni Hasija-ji, who is the MD of the company. And Mr. Ajit Kumar-ji, is Director, Finance and CFO of the company.
And now I would like to hand the conference over to IRCTC management to take the proceedings forward. Over to you, please.
Good afternoon, everyone. I hope you and your dear ones are in good health and spirits. I welcome you all to this con call to discuss the performance of your company that is IRCTC Limited for the quarter and the year ended 31st March, 2022. Yesterday, the company had announced our audited financial results for the fourth quarter and year ended on 31st March 2022, and the same has also been disclosed on both the stock exchanges. Please allow me to share with you a brief overview about quarter 4 of fiscal '22 and the results of our company. Following this, our Director Finance who is the CFO of the company too -- we'll provide the details in performance of our business segments, both [indiscernible] after which we shall be having a question of answer session.
I begin with a brief view of the salient feature of our results, which you must have seen by now already rather. In the last quarter of the previous financial year, IRCTC has been able to once again demonstrate its reselling business model. Though the impact of the wave 3 of the COVID-19 was there, we were a little lucky as the impact of the last wave was as not that dangerous at the second wave was.
Q4 financial year '22 revenue was at INR 691 crores and we saw growth -- strong growth of 28% quarter-on-quarter. That is the consecutive quarter and more than doubled on year-over-year given that the base quarter had the impact of pandemic. The most important factor is that the revenue for the quarter 4 is just 3.5% lower than the pre-COVID level. It means we are really going to -- we are very near to the pre-COVID levels maybe this year.
In quarter 4 of the financial year '22, the Catering segment has been the main driver on the quarter-over-quarter revenue growth. As you would be aware, that difference in the profitability, our business segment, the change in the business mix resulting in EBITDA margin coming to 40% -- nearly 40% versus 42.8% year-over-year and 51.7% as quarter-over-quarter.
However, the absolute EBITDA of INR 277.3 crores was in line with rather very much in line with INR 279 crores in the quarter 3 of the previous financial year. Net profit before the exceptional items for the quarter 4 of the previous financial year came at INR 218 crores versus INR 209 crores in the quarter 3 of fiscal -- financial year '22 and INR 107 crores in the quarter 4 of financial year '21.
For the year financial year '22, revenue came to INR 1,880 crores. That is INR 1,880 crores, which grew nearly by 1.4 into year over year, given that the financial year '21 had much severe impact of the pandemic as compared to the current year, the year past. EBITDA margin came to 46.8% versus 24.3% year-over-year and the net profit before the exceptional items came to INR [ 667.7 ] crores versus INR 150.5 crores year-over-year.
Importantly, the financial year '22, net profit crossed the '19, '20 mark of INR 528 crores also. So it is a very good news to all the investors. The Board of Directors have recommended final dividend to that is INR 1.5 per share, subject to shareholders' approval is going to be -- which we would be taking in our AGM. That was the total dividend per share is INR 3.5 because it is too we have declared as an interim dividend earlier.
As I have shared earlier that for the emergence of another wave of infections, the travel and hospitality industry can look forward for a much better financial year '23 and beyond. IRCTC's business segment, Catering, packaging water. Importantly, Tourism can also look up to a better performance in such an industry environment as the things are now on a gradual improvement.
I shall now hand over the call to my colleague and the Director Finance and CFO of the company, Shri. Ajit Kumar, to brief you on the financial and segmental performance of the company. Thank you very much.
Good afternoon, everybody. I hope you all to be in a good health. I will first give a brief overview about the Q4 FY '22 results, post which we shall have the question and answer session. This Q4 FY '22 revenue saw another quarter of strong improvement both on quarter over quarter and year-over-year basis. The revenue of INR 691 crores, grew by 27% quarter-over-quarter and by 104% year-over-year.
Given that Catering segment, which has relatively lower margins, that has saw the sharp increase in its revenue share and the overall EBITDA margin 40.1% versus 42.8% year-over-year and 51% quarter-over-quarter. However, we have been able to maintain the absolute EBITDA almost at Q3 FY '22 level.
Now the business segments of the company, the number 1 is the Internet Ticketing segment that has demonstrated its resilience amid impact of third wave of infections and revenue for the quarter was at INR 292.8 crores, growing by 42.4% year-over-year and declined by 6.4% quarter-over-quarter due to lower ticketing volumes. However, absolute EBITDA saw slight growth, that is quarter-over-quarter and EBIT margin came at 91.5% versus 84.8% quarter-over-quarter and 53.3% year-over-year.
The Catering segment, that has saw a sharp increase in revenue at INR 266.2 crores and grew by 1.5% quarter-over-quarter and just [indiscernible] see year-over-year, this enabled the segment to further improve its EBITDA margin to 9.4% versus 5.5% quarter-over-quarter and loss on y-o-y basis.
The sale of Catering segment to overall revenue increased to 38.5% in the fourth quarter versus 19.4% in third quarter and 19.9% in fourth quarter of FY '21. Now given that a relatively lower margin, the overall margin has been moderate in fourth quarter of FY '22.
The real need this in the quarter 4, revenue of INR 51.9 crores or by 4% growth quarter-over-quarter, reported EBITDA loss came at INR 24.3 crores, but it is mainly due to the impact of that 15% railway share on profit of the previous year that is an amounting to INR 27.13 crores was remitted back to railways. So that is the main reason.
But for further years, it will be -- I mean, good margin will be there. Tourism segment that saw a growth of 10.1% quarter-over-quarter to INR 80.1 crores importantly to continue to trim its losses and has almost was at breakeven EBIT level. The bank balances and net worth of the company as on 31st March 2022 is INR 172 crores and INR 1,884 crores respectively.
That's the end of the opening remarks. Now we can stright move to the question and answer session.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from the line of Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital.
Congratulations on very strong numbers. My first question is related to the significant revenue traction in the Catering business. In our earnings call on 9 February said, we have not done assessment about the Catering contract. But with the end of the quarter, we were able to see significant jump in revenues. So if you could explain what led to this massive increase and how many contracts have normalized to potential revised rates on the pricing?
Well, I can be proud of my team, if I say so, because when the cooked food started, it is only -- it started in the month of November. But could we made effective gradually till December. But from January to March, we saw a certain jump because the fast tendering process being followed by IRCTC. We have a lot of powers were delegated to the juniors.
If you ask me that how many tenders were finalized, so it is -- the number is going to be in thousands, because initially, the tenders were given for the shorter period than for 6 months. And now again, we are going to start the process. So many -- the cooked food start was the main reason and increasing the footfall at the station so that the static unit can also be revived was also the reason.
If you -- I give you the numbers, if you recall my earlier earning con call, where I used to give the numbers of the trains, where IRCTC was providing the Catering services. That was 417 only, but we were not actually -- we were not actually doing the TSV train. As now, IRCTC has taken up heavily on the TSV train and more than 70 trains brought under the ambit of contracting, out of which 596 tenders have already been placed and rest tenders are in finalization stage.
So it is a hard teamwork of the Catering department and the tendering department that has resulted in this mobile Catering increase in jumps. Similarly, the city Catering also picked up very well because the footfall has gone up and our formula was like that. Once the footfall fits up, the license fee will also be restored to the previous level. So this could be the reason Mr. Jain.
Okay. That's quite helpful. Other than that, in the -- so now when we see this Catering revenue, can we say that the full quarter benefit has come into this number or March revenues are significantly higher than...
It still is less because the process was gradual. It is only -- I said we started picking a money in the month of January. But even then the old trains were not there. Like 150 trains under the TSV section would be completing their awarding in this month. So it is only in the month of July. And it is a continuous cycle, few trains end up their contract early [indiscernible] cycle, it is a continuous process. But the complete process, maybe we are hopeful that we'll be able to complete by June end, if not June end, at least July 1 week, we'll be able to finish the entire process.
Okay. Okay. Understood. And moving to the next segment, which is on this [ 2S ] side. As on the website, we can see that for 2S, we are not able to able to book the ticket beyond 30th of June. So is that the last period beyond which we will not be booking tickets on the 2S category?
This is for the guideline issued by Ministry of Railways and different for each train actually. So I cannot -- I will not be able to comment very specific about it. But I can tell you that in the quarter 3, our daily average ticket was nearly 13.69 lakhs and now it is around 12.87. So the impact is not much as we have seen. And when -- in '19/'20, when pre-COVID level, it was only 8.25 lakh tickets per day. But still there is a more than 50% jump as we see the pre-COVID level.
So maybe the end of June, you say it may drop to -- may by a few more thousands, because over a period of time, IRCTC has been able to gain the confidence of the people and where the unreserved ticketing is? There is unreserved ticketing. We can't help it.
Right. So 12.87 lakh is daily for this quarter? That is what you shared?
Exactly. Quarter 4, the average has been 12.87 lakh only.
Okay. Okay. And on the Rail Neer business, we saw this significant charge, which was for the railway profit share that we gave of around 270 million, can you share more input in terms of what this charge is and what could be the recurring nature of this?
See, IRCTC was supposed to share the profit on all the departmental Catering segment. And initially, all the plants, I think, till 2009, all the plants were running in the departmental thing. And we were, in any case, because you get a captive audience in the railway station, and we don't Rail Neer in the other sectors. So the clientele is being brought to IRCTC by Ministry of Railways. So some sharing was to be done which was part of the MOU signed in the year 2007 between IRCTC and Ministry of Railways.
CFO in his beginning statement has also mentioned and given the figures of the amount. If we calculate it from 2007 to 2021, the revenue that IRCTC has received from the package drinking water business is nearly INR 1,200 crores or so. And profit margins was nearly, I think, INR 180 crores or so.
So IRCTC, technically speaking, deducting all the payments towards the Indian Railways and compensating the losses in the departmental Catering came out with a figure of INR 24.46 crores, out of which INR 2 crores was to be adjusted -- is to be adjusted, and it is subject to the reconciliation with the railways, for which Ministry of Railway has set invoiced, so we had to pay that. And for the rest of the -- now, I think the year, it is going to be a regular feature, and we would be sharing nearly 15% of the profit of the railway segment with the Indian Railways as far as the MOU signed between us.
So now -- can we say that this 15% is the net [ new ] charge which has come to us, which was not applicable to last year?
It was to be made applicable, but could not be made applicable because of the reconciliation process, which got over. It's happening on both the sides. Now, it got over, reconciliation process could be completed -- so that is why these were due on IRCTC, which were paid. But railway segment will continue to be a profitable business. And the profit from the railway segment will be there. It is only the 15% of the profit may go there, which would be compensated by, I think, with the upcoming new more plants.
So -- right. So now, hence forth, whatever will be the, let's say, FY '23, if we make INR 100 crores of profit, 15% before paying tax will be paid to government towards the -- their share.
Their share. [indiscernible] Clientele is there, ticket is -- has been -- we got a captive clientele. Otherwise, I've to...
I can understand the rationale. I'm just trying to understand the mathematics. So 15% of PBT is what we will share with them.
Yes.
Okay. Not 15% of revenue and other line. Is it 15% of PBT or PAT whatever?
Yes, yes.
Okay. And just last 1 question from my side. Any input we can share on the other income side, why we saw a significant jump in that?
As usual, Internet Ticketing has been the major contributor. And the 70% of your earnings has come from there. You're earning on all the [indiscernible], conveniency and the non-conveniency both have gone up. So like conveniency has contributed to nearly INR 694 crores, which is -- and non-conveniency resources have been -- have contributed to nearly INR 267 crores leaving apart and advertisement revenue has also gone up -- has nearly matched the pre-COVID level, although it has not crossed, but our iPay, the payment gateway has crossed the previous year level, the pre-COVID too and put together, we could earn, I think, nearly more than INR 1,000 crores from the Internet Ticketing segment alone.
So this could be a main contributor. The activity in the Tourism front has also gone up. In fact, it took off only in the month of February, the impact of the COVID was still there in the month of January. Gradually, our trains are also picking up. And our all kind of a Tourism is now back on track, as I told earlier also. So I think put together, with the main contributor as Internet Ticketing, all sectors are contributing, the Rail Neer is also contributing to the revenue. So the sale of the Rail Neer also gone.
INR 35 to INR 36 crores.
Our SBI credit card has also contributed INR 33 crores. So...
UH right. My question was more from the other income, on operating income, which jumped from INR 16 crores to INR 25 crores in this quarter. Is there anything very specific or this is the new run rate?
Only for [indiscernible, EMD and tender.
Since we could finalize many tender and could do the reconciliation process, could complete the reconciliation process of many vendors also. So this could be for future of security or [ EMD ] recovery. It is that income only because we finalize the -- and more tender, the income is more.
Our next question comes from the line of Jinesh Joshi with Prabhudas Lilladher Pvt. Ltd.
I have a question on the catering side. Expect the news reports, which were published some time back, it would stated that Indian Railway had decided to take over the responsibility of setting up for food plazas and fast food units from us in certain zones, citing delays from our end. So what is the latest development on the side if you can please.
We were really fortunate to handle the situation because most of our tenders were in process. Not even for the single unit, the tendering process for all the unit was in process and at the advanced stage of tendering. So as of now, not even a single food plaza has been handed over to -- back to railways, rather, what was with the IRCTC, Indian Railway Stations Development corporation, that food plaza has been now handed over back to IRCTC. So it has not impacted us much.
And as far as the tendering is concerned, it is a continuous process. Contractor complete their contract period. Again, it is given on the contract, COVID -- during COVID, many of the -- our partners, service partners have taken exit because there was no footfall at the stations. So there was no revenue potential for them. They took on to the exit. Security was also forfeited, et cetera, as per the rule. But fortunately, our advanced tendering stage and everything, the intention behind that letter could be that ministry wanted to ensure the passenger services, which we could do to restore in a very short time. And we were already doing -- in process of doing.
Sure. And ma'am, secondly, if I look at our Internet Ticketing segment, it reported an EBIT margin of about 91.5% in Q2, which is higher than what we have been reporting in the recent past. So is there any element of one-off here? And secondly, I would also like to know what is our progress on our IT modernization CapEx plan? What is the total sum, which we have earmarked and how much will we intend to spend in FY '23?
Revenue from the Internet Ticketing segment has been very good. It has been more because 1 factor was-- since you had a 1 more class, 2S, which was contributing nearly 36% of the total ticketing. And secondly, the overall ticketing, there is a gradual shift of the people from the off-line ticketing to online ticketing. So our average has also gone up. In spite of the fact that the trains were again made [ undissolved ], we didn't see the prospective jump.
If you compare my pre-COVID level figures of the Internet Ticketing segment, the average ticket booking per day was nearly 8.25 lakhs per day. Now in this quarter, in the last quarter, we could have 12.87 lakh tickets in a day. So 50% increase alone is not because of that. It is also because of the efforts taken by IRCTC in gaining the confidence and there is a transition of offline mode -- from offline mode to online mode.
Secondly, the -- it is not only the convenience fee. It is the other earnings of the Internet Ticketing, like the agent charges, the mobile app integration charges, the PMC charges, all have gone up. We have introduced more and more partners and given a flexible policy. And similarly, the payment gateway charges share has also gone up, because the number of transactions has gone up, so it has also gone up.
Then our marketing and advertisement income has nearly matched the pre-COVID level, although the industry is -- could come up only in the last quarter. In spite of the fact, we could match the figures. Had this been 9 months been with us, it could have really done wonders. And our payment gateway and SBI Card has also -- we have done much better than the pre-COVID level also. So all these sectors have contributed together in giving a good figure for Internet Ticketing.
My question was on the margin side. But nonetheless, I'll take that later. If you can just answer that part with respect to CapEx plan, how much do we intend to...
Sorry. I missed that. The CapEx we had earlier planned INR 100 crores. And we are still -- many of the items have been tendered -- the tenders are on. And we are also working parallelly on the DR side, for which the testing with the various partners have already been initiated. So our CapEx will around maybe -- will be around nearly INR 80 crores to INR 90 crores this year.
Sure. One last question from my side. I think some time back, the Indian Railways had and decided to cancel a few passenger trains to allow for rapid moment of coal inventory to arrest the power shortages prevailing across the country. So basically, my question is what proportion of our capacity was impacted due to this move? And currently, are we back to full capacity?
No, no impact, because generally, the cancellation is nearly 19%. It remains the same. Similarly, the refund is nearly 18%. So it's just remains the same. We have not noticed any impact of this movement.
[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of Madhu [indiscernible] with MAXPRO.
I have a few housekeeping questions. One is pertaining to this 2S. In the fourth quarter, out of the average or the total Internet Ticketing revenue of INR 268 crores, what was contributed by 2S, if you could specify? .
36%.
Even in fourth quarter?
Yes.
Okay. Both in terms of volume and value or there must be a difference?
In terms of volume only -- value wise, the 2S is very cheap.
Exactly. So value-wise, what would it be in terms of value?
I'm not having the value-wise figure readily available with me. .
INR 100 crores.
And I cannot give this figure on the basis of approximation, actually. So I don't have this value figure. I can only give you the number of tickets as of now.
Okay. And in this INR 268 crore, what was the convenience -- non-convenience breakup for fourth quarter?
The total revenue from the non-conveniency resources was not INR 267 crores, it is actually INR 337 crores.
That is for the full year, ma'am.
Yes.
I think you're asking about the quarter.
Sorry, quarter is around INR 98 crores, quarter 4 was INR 98 crores, out of which my contribution from the Asian business was INR 17 crores. And from a loyalty program and fee generation and few other things was around INR 75 crores. And advertisement was nearly INR 11 crores, and my payment gateway contributed nearly INR 12 crores and put together INR 98.7 crores in the quarter 4.
Okay. And ma'am, my other question is on the Catering side, as you mentioned that you're going to reach pre-COVID by June end. Is there any other contracts with the railways on the Catering side also where you could have some revenue sharing or anything of that sort on a future date?
In addition to Catering, we have been given additional work of a retiring room upgradation. Earlier, that was confined to a few stations. Now it has been more -- and it has been given on a pan-India kind of a thing. So we have started working on that. So this is going to be an additional revenue growth this year. The more tender we award, the more license is going to be there for the retiring room upgradation. Similarly, for more executive launches, the way we launch, we will be adding more and more license fee also. In Catering, while mobile Catering will be able to match up, few during pandemic, unfortunately, many of our contractors have exited from static Catering business because the footfall at the stations have gone down. So we are trying to revive and bring back all the contracts in position and award all the contracts. In fact, many of them have been awarded also, they are in process of permissions.
So you can foresee a jump or some good increase as far as the Catering revenue in this static Catering from retiring room, which has added in the Catering revenue only and from the executive lounges also.
Ma'am, my question was, is there any revenue sharing with the ministry on the Catering also?
We already share as far as the mobile Catering is concerned. No new sharing has come up. The old trend is there. In mobile we continue to share 40% as we were doing on the pre-COVID level or now. Even in the departmental in the Rail Neer business, we would be sharing only 15%. And even in the retiring room also, some sharing is there. So the sharing will be there -- as per the MOU signed between Ministry of Railways and IRCTC.
Yes, that's what I would kind of trying to find out from you ma'am that in the mobile, you share 40%, in the static, how much do you share with the railway?
40%.
And in this new business ventures like retiring room and...
Again 40%.
All 40%?
But in the catering, 40% and in the retiring room also again 40%.
Okay. So the ballpark...
But in Rail Neer, it is 15% of the profit.
All PBT. So 40% of catering PBT to be shared with railway and 15% of Rail Neer PBT to be shared with railway, right?
Put together, correct?
Yes. And ma'am, on my last question, if I may. What was the contribution of the [ pages ] in the quarter? And is it under the Tourism segment that you put it under?
Yes. We put it under the Tourism segment, though we have requested not to put it in the Tourism segment, but -- we need to be -- in 1 minute. Yes. It has contributed in the entire financial year, INR 54 crores and in the last quarter, INR 21.35 crores.
What is the kind of EBITDA? Or has it broken even? Any idea on -- any color on that? .
Well -- we are, I think, some -- the train initially in the month of January were not done well because of the COVID apprehension. It is only in the February, March, we could do. So there in the last quarter that as of now, the train has shown an operating loss of nearly INR 4 crores. So which we will be recovering this year, this financial year because now the bookings have gone up.
Our next question comes from the line of [ Ian Bira ], an investor.
Congratulations, ma'am, on the excellent set of numbers. I have a question regarding the average realization part ticket for this quarter. And my second question is the EBITDA levels for the Internet Ticketing segment for this quarter?
The average ticket size -- nearly, I think it is nearly 38,000 crores, which we realized from -- for Ministry of Railways, 38,000 crores. And the total number of our tickets that we issued was around 41 crores. So...
41 crores for this year, right, for this financial year?
The 41.74 crore ticket was showed by IRCTC this year. And we realized for Government of India, Ministry of Railways around say 38,000 crores and number of passengers that we booked was 73.43 crores. So it is nearly INR 16.6 per ticket.
Okay, ma'am which is INR 16.6 per ticket is the average realization.
Average realization.
Okay. And then the EBITDA levels in this particular Internet Ticketing segment is relatively high, as you said. So can you give us the figure around it was I think it...
Nearly 90%.
Okay. Okay. And then another question is that in the segment -- 2S segment, you said that it contributed 36% of the revenues. I also would like to hear from you the contribution, respective contribution from the sleeper class, that is non-AC class and 3AC, 2AC?
I think, it's 37% in the last quarter.
37% sleeper class. Okay. And for the AC classes, is the rest.
I think AC is not exactly -- I can give you the figure like this. We have a first AC class that contains first class and first class and there's another EA put together nearly not even 1%. Second AC is 4.2%. Third AC is 17.7%, Chair Car is 4.1%. And there's another class 3E and [indiscernible] put together 2.3%. You got it, sir?
Hello. I think there is some disconnection.
Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] with SBI Global Trade Bank.
Madam, what is the capacity utilization of [indiscernible]?
Capacity now is nearly, I think -- we call it occupancy level. That is another term. So now we are running more than 70%.
And at what level it will breakeven? .
Breakeven happens at I'd say more than 75%.
Okay. So we are very near to it. So can we...
Very near, very near.
Happen in this June quarter?
Hopefully, we are able to achieve this quarter.
Okay. One more question on the Catering side. When this Catering started from November onwards, it were license given at the old rate. And I believe that the license revision as per the new rates was to happen sometime in this quarter, or something. So have we already done that? And any reflection of that in the March quarter?
[indiscernible] has started. We have only nearly completing the phase. So maybe you may see the effect of that in the June end.
So we'll get it from November onwards averaging in the June quarter.
Yes, sir.
Yes.
Our next question comes from the line of [ Mayank ], an investor. Mr. Mayank, your line is unmuted, please go ahead Okay. The next question comes from the line of Omprakash Kavadi with Spark Capital.
Yes. One question on trade payables. When I look at the balance sheet, the FY '21 ending trade payables has been restated. So as per the previous financials, it was INR 180 crores. Now in this Q4 results, I think that INR 180 crores has restated to some INR 580-odd crores. So what is leading to this restatement in trade payables?
Previously, we have not taken the trade payables [indiscernible] Catering your licensee with data other like [indiscernible] we are transferring to [indiscernible].
I would like Ajit to answer this, Director Finance will answer this.
It is only the debtors, which we have transferred to in different heads because earlier it was not showing the proper. So now we have trade payable. Hello?
So going forward, the current classification would hold, right? .
No, this current classification is now correct. So therefore, I mean the old 1 is...
This is on the advise of the secretary auditor.
Our next question comes from the line of Ajit, an Investor.
What is the average that ticket booking in the [indiscernible]?
In the previous quarter, sir, I just mentioned 12.87 lakhs tickets in a day.
Yes. I mean currently, what is the [Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language]
What is the average of May and April?
[Foreign Language] Sorry, I'm not carrying actual figure. Before I go, I'll give the April figure also. You can get it from the Internet Ticketing also.
Okay, 1 more question, ma'am.
It will nearly 13 lakhs, because it is a peak season. I told -- we have already been telling continuously that April, May are the peak season for us. It has been rather more than the average booking also. [Foreign Language].
One more question, ma'am, in the third quarter, we have profit in Rail Neer. But in this quarter, we mentioned a loss and what is the reason for this?
The reason is that the work of a Rail Nee, we started in the year 2002 onwards. And -- but some of -- we and -- IRCTC and Ministry of Railways, in the year 2007 had signed and MOU that for various businesses, we are -- where railways also contributing in the business, some profit sharing has to be ensured to the railway.
As for that MOU, the corporate sharing for the release was to be insured. But for it, some reconciliation also happen, which earlier did not happen, now has happened. So that reconciliation for the last 15 years has been done. So -- and the 15-year money has been transferred, it is 15% of the PBT that we have given subject to the -- again, to the reconciliation with the railways, though we have completed a major chunk of that. And hence for 15% of the net profit -- the profit, PBT in the Rail Neer segment will be shared with the railways also.
Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible], an investor.
Yes, ma'am. You have said that for this financial year '21, '22, the non-convenience fee has gone up to INR 337 crores. So there are some components of this non-convenience fee. There is a loyalty program. So can you elaborate on the loyalty program?
Loyalty program we have with the SBI Card, and now we have for the Bank of Baroda Card also. This card -- SBI Card is working with us since year 2007 or 2008. So when we sell some card, the value of the card is for initial first fee is INR 500, there we get around INR 403 is with the IRCTC for selling the card. And in the forthcoming year, some share in the annual maintenance fees that bank charges from the customer is shared with the IRCTC. So whatever that happens through IRCTC platform we share. So in that segment, we have already shared, we already earned in this financial year, nearly INR 37 crores.
Okay. And the advertisement revenue for this financial year, madam, any figure for the advertisement revenue?
INR 33 crores, and we have nearly matched the pre-COVID level, that is in pre-COVID level, this revenue was INR 34 crores. Now we have got INR 33 crores. But put together, non-convenience resources earning in the pre-COVID that was in '19, '20, it was INR 231 crores. No, it is INR 337 crores. So you can see that we have crossed the levels of the pre-COVID also in the non-convenience fee.
Ma'am, can you give a breakup of this INR 337 crores. I want to know just the major component advertisement is INR 33 crores?
I will give you, sir. I will give you only major hedge. [Foreign Language]
Yes. These are...
First is the agent business. And in the agent business, the -- we -- when agent tie up with us, we take some fee, in that section, we have earned around INR 173 crores, right? And in the payment gateway business also, where we do a lot of integration, individual integration. There we have earned around INR 56 crores -- nearly INR 56 crores.
And then from our marketing expense, it is INR 33 crores and loyalty program INR 37 crores, I've told you just now.
Yes, yes, yes.
You see our payment gateway was INR 36 crores. But if [Foreign Language] crores.
iPay has been contributing...
Yes, yes, sir. In '19/'20, iPay contributed around INR 23 crores. This year, it has contributed INR 36 crores.
So going by the trend in this non-convenience fee, I think the guidance for the next 2, 3 years is quite lucrative, maybe a 15%, 20% growth in the non-convenience fee segment as well.
Even -- why we should not [indiscernible more, I would say like this, because intention is to retain the -- retaining business and simultaneously increase the non-convenience fee resources so that -- because a stage will come. We have already achieved nearly 82% of the booking.
Yes, yes, yes.
10% to 12% booking is going to be off-line always. Maybe there is a increment in the booking is going to be maybe 1% or 2% every year. So our dependency on the convenience fee has to be shifted, that business will be with us, but we have to explore the other resources also that is what we are doing. And we have been able to do also. And there is a good jump. We have noticed this -- nearly INR 100 crores jump is there.
Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] with Earthwise India.
What I wanted to know is that the current ticket issued per day is about 12.87. Do you see this number growing substantially any time soon?
See in the month of April, because of the season, temporarily, it has gone up to more than 13 lakhs. In May also, I'm pretty sure -- today, I've not taken the figures. It is going to be nearly the same. But I think the second is not going to be there in the reserve segment, some decrease may be noticed. But after June, 30th June, the things are going to settle. So we will come to know as far as my experience in this industry, in this work of ticketing goes, in any case, it will be much more than the pre-COVID level, which was only 8.25 crores because there has been a transition of a customer from the offline mode to online mode. And the increase may not be as drastic as we have seen during the COVID period because we have already achieved a very high level and reach up to the level of 82% of the total ticketing is happening through internet only.
And the total [indiscernible] is about 16 crores -- 16 lakhs per day, is it around 16 lakhs?
Online plus offline.
Online and offline percentage is around 82% and 18%. 82% is online and 18% is offline as of now.
And in terms of your segment margin, if you could give me an idea of what happened? The number seems to be at the high 92%. Can we expect this to be some kind of a normalized number? Or is it a one-off event?
This could be because of the excess booking that you have achieved, one. Since [indiscernible] so your payment gateway charges automatically goes up because more transactions have happened. If more transactions have happened so you lead regeneration also goes up. You have more people online, so your loyalty program goes up. It is all related work in a cascading manner, sir. So once you have good [ booking ], the things start rolling after that, and we start cashing everything pertaining to that. The advertisement revenue also goes up because you are more [ fetched ], and more -- your own payment gateway is used by many. So it is all correlated with the booking and with each other. It revolves around the center.
And if you don't mind me asking another question. In terms of Tourism and travel, do you see this number to be in the market and in the [indiscernible] public have opened up, do you see this number increasing any substantially since we have holidays too?
People have started holidaying, inbound is not picking up that well, it is -- not the outbound also. It is a domestic [ prison ], which is taking off very, very even all our packages towards Char Dham. Earlier, we were doing only by air, now we are -- we are going to start with the bus service also. So all -- there's so much demand in the domestic segment that we also have to change our strategy to meet the requirements. And trains, et cetera, is already running, but people want to have now some break.
Maybe the COVID fear gradually has gone or going away. So people are coming out a lot. Our Maharaja is going to be on track soon. And Golden Chariot, which we acquired from -- not acquired, rather we have taken our operation from Karnataka State Tourism Development Corporation. That is also going to be on track soon. Our Buddhist train will also be there. We are also coming up with the new Bharat Gaurav and going to operate our first Ramayana, which would be linked in 2 countries, India and Nepal. So and all our air packages are doing well, our air booking is also -- we are doing well. So things are now started improving from February onwards as far as the Tourism is concerned, but actual results have been seen only in the month of April, not in the month of March.
And in terms of margins, international or inbound or outbound..
We see 10% margin, but there are a few products where we have crossed the margins of 20% also. So there are a few products because when the demand is more, we also try to play with margins. But when the demand is less, we also try to reduce our margins. So it depends on the product to product. But we never charge less than 10%, that is for sure.
Our next question comes from the line of [ Rattan Juneja ] with Core Value Technologies Private Limited.
My question is about on Internet Ticketing. So what is the percentage of unreserved tickets to total tickets for Indian Railways? And what change do you expect? And second question relating to Internet Ticketing is, do you see any change in pricing, increase of change -- increase in prices for your convenience fee going in the future -- couple of years?
I will answer your second question first. We don't foresee any change in the pricing of convenience fee that we are charging from our customer as of now. But you can't stop -- but as far as the percentage of the unreserved segment is concerned, it is [ spread ], the 7% of the total inventory available I'm telling you from my experience and which I have worked in the railways. Total, I think 7% of the inventory is only reserved. But the revenue from the reserve segment is much more than the unreserved, that is the thing I've learned in the railways that I can quote you, but the exact figures you can see on the India Railways portal.
So you mean to say 93% is unreserved tickets in India?
In unreserved also, there are further segments, Suburban, non Suburban. So there are many segments. For that, you need to see the Indian Railway portal, sir. I can only tell you about the reserve per segment.
Give you over a period of -- over a period in the long term, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, do you see this change coming that people -- that unreserved percentages will start coming down?
Given an option to our customers, if the facilities are available and confirmed the travel is also ensured why people will not get them converted to the reserve. When the unreserved who were not there during the COVID period, people were traveling in the reserve as reserve segment. So over a period of time, if the transition is happening, well, am not a travel forecaster. But given an option, given an option to a person, the person would certainly like to travel in the confirmed kind of a setup rather than uncertain setup.
So there is an opportunity of conversion?
So there looks an opportunity. If unreserved trains get converted into reserve, there is an opportunity for us. Since it has -- it has been on the other side, we lost some chunk of that, not the fully, but still we are much ahead of the COVID level -- pre-COVID level. And side by side, Indian Railways have also started introducing many new trains with a modern technology and modern coaches. So when these -- such kind of facilities are available, people would like to try that also.
Okay. So my other question was relating to -- you had launched bus ticketing. So I have not heard or read what is the status of the bus ticketing business that we are getting into. Also, you had mentioned that there are -- the hotel aggregation business is -- there was a lot of tie-ups that were happening with a lot of hotels, what is the status of that business? .
In the bus ticketing, we have not only tied up the redBus and the AbhiBus, we have also tied up with the real state Tourism development [indiscernible] SETCs as driving. Several states we have tied up, and we are also booking this buses. Bus booking has gone up after this. How much is it has gone up. I get you the figure before we close.
The revenue from the bus booking is INR 6 lakhs per day. [Foreign Language]
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question of the day. Now I would like to hand over the conference to our management.
Well, thank you very much all the investors for patience hearing. And I hope we have been able to clear all your doubts and able to address any query. In case of any further queries, you may also send this to our relationship officer who can also send you -- send a reply through e-mail. However, I'm also available around the clock where all the queries of you can be answered.
So staying with IRCTC is a good proposition as it was earlier. So we have -- we can wish each other a very good luck for the coming year, and lets hope that the wave of the previous year has been very kind to us. The upcoming year will also be. Thank you very much, investors. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Dolat Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.