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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to H. G. Infra Engineering Limited Q1 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishav Das from Pareto Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning, everyone. This is Rishav Das from Pareto Capital. We represent Investor Relations for H. G. Infra Engineering Limited. On behalf of H. G. Infra, I welcome you all to our Q1 FY '22 earnings conference call. I have with me from the management, Mr. Harendra Singh, Chairman and Managing Director; and Mr. Rajeev Mishra, Chief Financial Officer. We will have brief opening remarks from the management followed by the Q&A session. Please note that certain statements made during this call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results or projections to differ materially from these statements. H. G. Infra will not be in any way responsible for any action taken based on such statements and undertakes no obligation to publicly update these forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances. I would now hand over the call to Harendra Singh for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Good morning, everyone. I hope all of you and your families are keeping safe and healthy. I am proud of the exceptional performance our team has continued to deliver this quarter. Despite challenges of COVID resurgence, we have continued to maintain our momentum and witnessed strong execution in all our major projects. During the quarter, we reported revenue of INR 911 crores compared to the INR 298 crores last year, which we majorly -- which was majorly impacted by the lockdown and the restriction during the last year. Our profitability and margins continue to remain robust with EBITDA at INR 148.5 crores with a margin of 15.3% (sic) [ 16.3% ], while PAT stood at INR 88.9 crores with an all-time high margin of 9.8%. We have achieved significant milestones in several of our projects, which helped drive growth in this quarter, following the progress we have made in the HAM projects. In our first HAM project of Rajiv chowk, we have completed around 87% of the project. In the Narnaul Bypass HAM project also, we have made considerable progress during this quarter, having completed 75%. We have completed around 72% of our Rewari-Ateli HAM project. And our Rewari Bypass HAM project, we have completed around 19% since the last quarter. For the rest 3 HAM projects, we are in process of financial closure. In Khammam-Devarapalle Package 1 and 2, we have received the [indiscernible] for all these 3 projects from some of the banks, and our proposal are in expedition for the final sanction with them. For Raipur Vishakhapatnam, we have recently received the letter of acceptance. We are sure to conclude the financial closure for all these projects within the time line of agreements, and expect to receive the budget for rest 3 HAM projects by quarter 4 of this financial year. Let me now brief you on progress of our key EPC projects that are -- we have a strong execution going on Delhi Vadodara Package 4 and have completed over 75%. In DV Package 8, we have made good progress and have completed around 30%. In DV 9 Package, we have completed around 25%. In Hapur Morradabad EPC contract, we have completed close to 60%. In the Mancherial project of Adani, we have contributed 30%. In our -- all 3 projects of [indiscernible] street highway projects, namely [indiscernible]. They are also in the final stage of completion. We have completed about 85% to 95% in view of these 3 projects. We have applied [ PCOD ] for these projects. And expected to get -- receive the same very shortly. Our order book stood at INR 6,143 crores as of 30 June 2021. Please note that we have received a new order -- new EPC order in the month of July 21, which is not a part of this particular order book. This new EPC project is in Delhi, which includes the development of a 6-lane urban extension road from NH 1 to Karala-Kanjhawala Road, and have already costed INR 1,393 crores. Our efforts to strengthen our balance sheet continue to remain our focus. Total gross debt as on 30 June 2021 on a stand-alone basis stood at INR 308 crores. This includes working capital debt of INR 83 crores. Term loans plus current maturity at INR 225 crores. Cash and bank balance on a standalone basis stood at INR 150 crores. Our consolidated debt stood at INR 867 crores, which includes the project loans of INR 560 crores. Cash and bank balance on consolidated level stood at INR 263 crore. Coming to the outlook and the guidance, we have time and again demonstrated our strong execution capabilities. In the last call, we have given the guidance of INR 3,200 crores of revenue and INR 500 crores-plus EBITDA during this 2021 -- '21, '22, sorry. Given the strong performance in this quarter, we are confident of overachieving this target. In addition to the execution, our focus continues to be on winning the project -- winning all projects. As mentioned earlier, our goal is to achieve INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores of order inflow in this financial year, with 10% of the outstanding order coming from new sectors such as railways, airports and water. That is all from my side. I will now request the moderator to open the call for questions and answers. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.
Congratulations, very good set of numbers. Sir, just want to get a sense on the way you see FY '21 number in terms of revenues now because I think when I look at the order backlog, including the new order that you won in Q1, so meaning you have INR 7,400-odd crores. But I mean I think in your opening remarks, you said the 3 new hybrid HAM would take some time to start contributing. So which essentially means we have only around 5,500, 5,600, which is where we would be able to book numbers for the time being. So do you see any risk to your guidance in terms of, let's say, I mean, if these 3 projects are slightly delayed in terms of getting appointed dates in place, could there be a situation wherein we are able to going to meet the guidance that we've given in terms of top line? And what is the comfort level in terms of book-to-bill that you would like to have, given the fact that hybrids generally take some time to kind of start contributing? And that will be my first question.
See, the order, which -- if we take a part this particular recently EPC order. This is about INR 104 crores. Out of that, we are having -- or under execution. We've taken also INR 900 crores of HAM that can be taken out. So under execution are about INR 4,300 crores. So after this INR 4,300 crores, if we look forward for the 3 quarters, we believe that the execution of about 2,300-plus would not be a big challenge out of that. Because they are at a very, say, at one stage of that progress is going on. And we could produce almost INR 400 crores, has been admitted in DV for 8, 9 during this quarter. And these all 3 -- 4 HAMs that has produced almost INR 260 crores during this quarter. So it is very much visible that INR 3,200 crore-plus is not a big channel. Even if we didn't receive any further development in the -- as far as the advantages for the all 3 HAM. As well as I would just like to add on that this recently awarded EPC, where the letter of acceptance is already issued by authorities. There, the land availability is more than 90%. The land has been in position of NHAI. We expect by November or December the land will be in our position. We will be able to start the project, and our project would be taken for the EPC as well. So I don't see much of a challenge as this order to bill ratio, what you are saying. Definitely, it has been technically improved with this new award. But again, as we are targeting from INR 5,000 to INR 6,000 of new order addition during the current year, either HAM or EPC or other sectors. So we believe that would -- say order to bill or say that range is 3.2. That range would be quite possible.
Sure. And sir, second question, I think last call, you'd given us a sense that Hapur would be done within this year. You said the time in FY '22. Are we on track? Because it still is almost around 50-odd percent, which is pending for execution and the pace that we saw in Q1 looks like, I mean, it could take slightly longer than our initial expectations?
So earlier, it was expected by November or December, we would be able to complete as per the -- say, 30-month duration of the project. But we believe that it is going to extend by 4 months. By March '22, we would be able to complete because of some certain [ CS ] being awarded during this execution. So 100-odd crore [ CS ] being, say, in addition to the additional scope. So but -- it is more or less 95% project will be completed by March.
Sure. And just one last from my side on hybrid annuities monetization, given the fact that I think it seems -- I mean we would be able to have [ PCOD ] for 3 of our projects, at least, by the COD itself because 2 of these -- all these projects are more than 70% complete now. Any progress on asset monetization or any buyers in place now or any negotiation that you would -- haven't share with us?
I think there is not much of a significant progress, which I could just tell you right now. But definitely, 3 of the investors, they are keenly working on it. They are working on the technical details of these projects, all 3, which we'll likely to complete within this calendar year. So with that, and again, one of the inventors again interested, taking on call on these projects. We believe that it will take time because of the COVID, the second wave. Not much of the things, say, went on very fast. But we believe that within next 6 to 8 months, we would be having a very positive outlook on this particular monetization of all 3, 4 HAM projects.
Our next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.
Yes. And congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, my first question is given the fact that out of 61 billion of order book, roughly 39 billion where the institutional is happening at this point of time. So roughly 22 billion where work is not happening. So does it mean -- so all the supply will reach FY '22, we will have the growth on the base of FY '22, it will be difficult to achieve in FY '23.
No, not like that. It was explained earlier as well. It is almost, if you see, 4,300 -- out of 4,300 is when we execute it. So roughly about 2,300. So we will be bringing some INR 2,000 crores of these projects, which is -- which would be balanced if we achieve 3,200. And apart from that, it's a recently awarded EPC, which we expect by November, it would be started or December next. And the order date, if not that, is going to be delayed much, definitely due to 2, 3 months of this COVID impact in Telangana and Andhra. Not much of a land position was there. But ultimately, now that things are moving very fast, we expect that for the Andhra Pradesh project, that is Raipur Vishakhapatnam corridor, we expect that by January or February, we will be getting the [indiscernible]. Balance 2 will be within this year or same as by April. So with that, the entire execution will be there for the next year. Even if you take -- do not take any new orders for the [indiscernible], we do not expect those accounting rate.
Understood, sir. Sir, my second question is on the opportunity basket available in the water segment and HAM. How do you see the basket looking at this point of time?
As everybody is aware of JJM, Jal Jeevan Mission. And this is the primary focus for the government, that by 2024 there would be, say, the potable water to every household is the highest priority of the government. So there's a lot of opportunity in the government of Rajasthan, only there are almost INR 8,000-odd crores of projects. They are likely to be awarded within this year or next year. So there is a big opportunity coming in the water. And as well as if you see in railways, things would be moving now onwards as the DPR at the advanced stage. So we expect that in the high-speed network, not many opportunities will be coming on.
And how the HAM opportunity looking like at this point of time, sir?
Definitely, they have already given the indication that in this financial year, they would be awarding more than what they awarded last year. So more than 4,500 kilometers, and equivalent to about, say, 2 lakh crores of projects. Mostly, they have indicated that most of those projects, 65% to 70% will be on high model. But they are on track. And I think by next year and next year, [indiscernible] around the pipeline that they will be targeting to award those projects as well.
And sir, lastly, on the margins, EBITDA margin. Do you see any risk to the margin in FY '22, given the input division pressures?
No. No. As we have seen in quarter 1, we had, say, all-time high, 15.3% EBITDA margin that we could achieve. And then -- that's well on track, even despite of a bit of resurgence of COVID and we got impacted about INR 100 crores of top line impacted because of that. But even with that, we could make this good number of 16.3%. So it is all possible there would be not a big impact on the margins, and it will be -- we can very well expect some 15% to 15.5% range.
We'll take our next question from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking.
Sir, just if you can help us with the debtors and unbilled breakup that you typically do for -- especially from Adani IRB and some of the key projects, it would be helpful, sir.
See, Adani and IRB, if you compare with our March '21 number, it has been reduced by almost INR 45 crores, both of these private payers. But altogether, the debtor there increased by almost INR 130 crores during this particular quarter if you compare with March numbers, and just primarily because of some deliverable -- or EPC projects for NHAI, which we have received the payment during the month of July only.
Okay. Sir, can you give the absolute number just for the record for Adani and IRB, how much is outstanding debtors and unbilled?
Adani is approximately INR 49 crores, and IRB is about INR 172 crores.
INR 172 crores. Right. So last time, I think it was about 160-odd, right? 138 plus 20.
Right. Quite right. At IRB, we executed about INR 141 crores during this quarter, and almost we have received the payment in that range, INR 125 crores. That's the payment exactly, and we are not -- as I say, there are not any substantial delay in both of these private players.
And sir, what would be the total mobilization advances as of the end of the quarter?
That has been reduced by INR 40-odd crores. Earlier, it was from INR 310 crores, now it is INR 267 crores.
Right. And sir, lastly, we have been doing some subcontracting for Adani, IRB, et cetera. So are we open to taking up more projects? Or we are targeting only the HAM and EPC projects from NHAI?
No. Since we are already having many more projects in the prime contractor as per EPC or your total of HAMs. And we have increased the guidance that earlier we were looking at about 25% HAM. Now with the government peer focus that they would be awarding 70% or 65% range. We have increased our -- that again, 40% of our HAM on the company level and some EPC mix of that. We do not see much of a, say, logic going ahead with a subcontractor for Adani or IRB or any other private players. But definitely, we are not ruling out that in case of any good project from Adani, especially coming on our way, we will be taking call on it.
Because the experience is good, then why not, I mean that's...
Well, of course, we are not ruling out. That's why I'm saying I am not ruling out.
Your next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital.
Congrats on a great performance in the [ ForEx ] line. Sir, 2 questions from my side. So first, I just wanted to understand the guidance that we are giving of around INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores, is it basically predominantly made up of road projects? Or are you charging some other external issue also in that?
No. No. We are targeting the other 3 sectors. As I already indicated that the water, railway and the railroad. Definitely, we would be taking all about -- it's roughly similar, about 10% of the balance order book by the end of this year. That should be from these 3 sectors, other than the highways.
Sir, and assuming that's around INR 500 crores to INR 800 crores of orders should be expected in that -- in those segments. The remaining, we expect from [indiscernible]
Sorry, I couldn't get your voice.
I'm so sorry, is this okay? Yes. So what I'm trying to say is that, so basically, we're expecting INR 500 crores to INR 800 crores of orders from the other segments. The remaining will still be from the road segment. Am I right?
Yes.
Right. And in that, as you answered to Ashish's question, if there are opportunities in terms of subcontracting for other private players, so let's say, there is this huge infra expressway, which is coming up in the state of UP on a BOT basis, if it gets bid by players who are open to subcontracting, you would be open to taking a close position there?
Of course, the project which where we will be looking forward, they should have a good potential of margin. And the client, of course, should be the one where we are in a good rapport with them.
Right. Sure. Great to hear that, sir. So just one last question. So basically, it's a basic math that we are doing, and I think other guys are also trying to get to the same point. We have a current order book of, let's say, around INR 6,100 crores. We are expecting a total order inflow of around INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores for the full year. Taking out the ordering positive already, we assumed that, let's say, we will get another INR 4,000 crores in the next 9 months in this year. You are guiding for an execution of around INR 3,200 crores of top line, at least in this year. So that would leave us with an order book of, let's say, around INR 7,800 crores to INR 8,000 of order book at the end of FY '22, which given that we will be able to do another -- we will be able to do INR 3,200 crores of top line, we would still be in the range of 2.3, 2.4x book to sales. So I think for us to be able to give the kind of visibility that we want of a 20% kind of a CAGR for the next 2 to 3 years, we probably need to be a kind of a leap in terms of the order inflow, either from, let's say, the road segment or some other segments. Road segment, we know that the competition is increasing a lot. We've seen like 35 players in the EPC segment and all. So going forward, are we going to get aggressive investment in Jal Jeevan Mission and other segments so that at least we could reach a comfortable -- I mean is there a target that the management has in mind that, okay, we probably need to reach a level of 2.5 or 3x so that it provides us a good comfort in terms of revenue growth position for the next 2 to 3 years time. I'm not asking for a immediate year. This year, I think we are very well placed for INR 3,200 crores of top line. But beyond that, on a sustainable basis, what is our strategy in that?
I think on a sustainable basis, which is a reasonable cover of about 20%, that growth is quite visible, and that is possible. Last 3 years, we did with 22% CAGR. And then now if you are talking of the order book. This is right now, if you take into this EPC -- recently, our EPC is INR 70 crores to INR 150 crores of balance order book, which is under execution -- which would be under execution. So it's projected, as I already discussed. So with that, it gives a figure which is -- we will execute from 2,300 during the year. And with that, some 5,000 would be the balance order with this recent order -- recently awarded order. Now coming back, that we are almost -- say, given the guidance, that INR 5,000-odd crores of new additions would be taken on apart from of these orders, so with that, it gives the visibility, the 5,000 plus 5,000, which is normally coming and ranging from 9,000 to 10,000 of real absolute EPC number. If you're talking about -- if you take one from 5,000 HAM or 4,000 HAM, that EPC would be 85% of that number. So with that, about 9,000 to 10,000 range. It gives a clear, clear indication that we would be having some 3x the, say, the number with the -- of the balance orders. That, again, '22, '23, it gives a clear visibility. And going on with the addition of the new 3 -- 2 to 3 sectors which we are talking of, that we would be very keen on taking those calls that we will be diversifying. And within next 2, 3 years, we will be taking some project to 25% of orders from the sectors other than the highway. And now talking of the revenue, say, the bottom line or the aggressions. If that -- but the mix of our HAM and EPC and something of the subcontract or say, the other sectors, it's all possible that we will be -- continue maintaining this particular profit margins.
Sure. But actually, my bad. I think I misunderstood. You mean that we are looking for INR 5,000 crores of incremental orders over and above what we've already received this year, right?
Correct. Because last year, it was the backlog, it remained -- what was the backlog last year. We need to make up within this year. And we are okay with it. I think it is not a big number, which is possible. But we'll look into the positive environment, as announced.
Right. Sure. So I think I missed that part. I thought you're talking INR 5,000 crores, INR 6,000 crores for the full year order book guidance, but it is over and above what you already received. Great to hear that. Sir, just one last question from my side in terms of HAM. We right now have around 7 HAM projects in which our total equity requirement would be somewhere INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores. What number are we comfortable with in terms of either number of HAM projects or in terms of the total equity commitment, assuming that -- I mean you're, of course, trying for selling these assets to a player. Those deals will happen as and they are. But what is the kind of number that are we comfortable with in terms of our equity commitment to HAM projects, which is the project...
See, with the existing HAM, which you say, having all 3 new HAMs which are like to be started and the earlier one, where around about INR 90 crores of [ PCT ] is the balance. So total all together is coming at about some 50, that range. So with that, within a period of next 2 years, this 450. If you see the internal accruals, the cash accrual, which we will be looking at this particular year only, it would be coming at about [ INR 375-odd crores ]. And with that, if we have the clear visibility this year only, we would be in a sufficient cash surplus. And next year onwards, again, if you add on some new HAM projects, 3 to 4, we will be able to maintain that balance from our internal accruals only. And even if we could not monetize the existing 3 or 4 HAMs, that would all be possible. We do not see much of the challenge. And even I can just add on to that, sir, we have -- last year, also the enabling of this QIP being down for INR 200 crores. Now again, we are proposing in the AGM from INR 200 crores to INR 300 crores. So that's looking into that strengthening of the balance sheet. Wherever, if any point of time, if we can raise the money, we would be in a position to raise that INR 300 crores.
We'll take our next question from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Capital.
Just a couple of questions. So your -- I understand that you are very comfortable with the pipeline that is there in terms of the many sectors which you are targeting. But let's say, given that the size of orders which you need [indiscernible]
Sorry, your voice is breaking.
[Operator Instructions]
Yes. Is this better now?
Yes, we can hear you.
Yes. So sir, just one question, firstly, on the margin trajectory which you see, given that you have -- you also need significant order inflows. And so there's quite a few other companies listening in, at least, and along with the other -- understanding that is competition. But -- so in that context, do you see a need for -- or maybe do you see a risk to your margin trajectory going forward as you keep bidding for more orders aggressively in the various sectors?
The answer was -- your question was typically -- I could not sense you.
In case of your competition, how do you see margins?
No, I think it's almost a year or so, which we are talking that the aggression is going very high from last year when they use [indiscernible]. But we are not seeing the -- possibly dried up. We are having the same numbers in our orders. Again, the margins, of course, we are selective, and we are taking call on those projects only, which can yield this range of margin. So we are not going to compromise on the margin.
Okay. Okay. And how do you see the same thing, when you say, when you go to the other sectors, which are, let's say, water and railways? Do you see a risk to the working capital cycle in that case? Because working on the cycle right now is very, very attractive, I believe it so. Do you see a risk that, that will go up?
No. We don't see because we're 50% funded, 50% state-funded. The state, they are also getting those one aligned with the various -- the World Bank or say, ADB or international banks. So this is not -- would not be a big challenge because their focus is that, that we need to provide that, and the project is always devised that they will be providing the funds right on time. So we do not see much of a stretch. We want to take 10% to 15% of these as our other sector projects, where you're talking about railway level or this water sector.
Okay. Okay. And just, sir, one question. If you can just detail the equity commitment, which you will do in this year and the next couple of years for the existing HAM that you have?
Yes. I already explained that about INR 450-odd crores for these all 7 HAMs. That is -- I think the INR 375 odd crores of cash accrual possible during the year. If we see to the incremental working capital requirement even, which we -- but if you just set up both the numbers during the next 2 years, we would be in a position to have a surplus of about INR 200 crores if we do not take any further more HAMs. And if we are going to take new HAMs, again, it is a quite possibility that from the company's profit and accruals, we will be in a position to [ default ].
Sir, what I was asking, sir, what is the actual amount we'll invest in this year and the next couple of years for the existing? And just the number, if you can just say...
I already given that during the particular -- this particular year, not more than INR 150-odd crores would be required for these HAMs. If you are talking about all 4 under operations, under execution in the next 3 -- where the project is near committed. So with that INR 150-odd crores during the year and with the possibility that we would be having surplus of INR 100-odd crore plus, INR 150-odd crores for the next year. With that 150, the total requirement, 450, you can net out [indiscernible] INR 300-odd crores. We have the requirement of 200 will be required in these 3 further HAMs for the year '22, '23. So there -- I think it gives a clear visibility, we would be in a position to fund these HAMs.
Our next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
Congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, initially, I have a few bookkeeping questions. If you can give me the details of the unbilled revenue, the mobilization advance, the retention money? And what is your gross block and receivables there on?
The receivables, I already given that, it's about INR 590 crores, which has been increment of about INR 135-odd crores, but the INR 135-odd crores increment is mainly from NHAI and a few from SPV. Retention, there is an increment of about INR 25-odd crores during this year because the retention where we could not receive the retention as we are approaching the completion in all these HAMs as well as EPC projects. So we would be able to get these retentions by, say, in quarter 3 or quarter 4. It will be, again, coming to that range where we have seen in last '21. We have INR 200-odd crore of retention. And then if you look to the -- for the third one. This is, again, the drop of about INR 42-odd crores from the mobilization advance of March number. Now it's coming at about INR 267 crores. And again, if I -- if you see this trend of decreasing mobilization advance by next 2, 3 quarters, which entire mobilization advance would be in the range of about INR 50 crores, INR 70 crores, and we will be taking on further as mobilization advance for this newly awarded EPC only. And bill has gone down by about INR 17 crores from the March number. It is now coming at [ INR 246 crores ].
And sir, on the [indiscernible], sir, do you spend like what is the CapEx guidance for this year and any CapEx than in Q1.
Gross log has been increased because of the loan. If you can see the loan, they have increased. We increased asset by INR 29-odd crore during this first quarter.
And what is your target, sir, for the full year?
So not more than INR 70-odd crores, not more than that.
INR 70 crores CapEx for full year. Okay.
Even if you include this INR 30-odd crore, if you include for the last 3 quarters, INR 40 crores.
INR 40 crores. Okay. And sir, on the land acquisition status, obviously, we have received 3 HAM projects under Q4. So -- and last quarter, you said land stays like 20%, 25% available. So what is the current status? And when can we expect the area? You said probably in Q4. So what is the land status now?
Andhra Pradesh, this Raipur-Visakhapatnam project, there is a good portion of land that is government land only. So there, most -- 50% of the land is immediately available. So that, again, given the indication that by January, we will be able to start this project. It's quite possible. In this project, it is a very advanced stage. And if you're talking about Khammam-Devarapalle Package 1 and 2 in Telangana, they're again -- it's not that, say, a big number. But again, these things are moving on. We believe that by end of this financial year, we would be in a position to take at least [indiscernible] one of the projects. And second would be [indiscernible].
Okay. So right now, we are seeing the same 30%, 40% of land available, right? And sir, on the Rajasthan Project, so what is the status now of receivable and everything? The last time -- last quarter was a good -- we had almost done everything. So now some [indiscernible] INR 20 crores and from the sale pending. So what is your current status now, sir?
Not much of our receivable is left out. It's only -- we have received some INR 9 crores during the month of July. And in first quarter, we could not receive any single penny from these projects. But again, it's not a big number, which is left out. It's about INR 37-odd crores. It is likely that within this quarter or say next -- in quarter 3, we will be able to receive. And only the work which is left out would be only debt in the supplementary agreement, which is not a big number. It's about INR 75-odd crores, which will be down over a period of next 1.5 years. So if there's a budget, we want to be challenged, I think.
Okay. So earlier, it was only INR 75 crore of supplementary work.
Correct.
And sir, on the last quarter, we have given the execution targets for FY '22. Like HAM projects, we completed 100%. The 4 HAM projects will compete 90% output. Obviously, you said there are [indiscernible], sir. So can you just say what is the internal target for completion for these projects? I believe Package 4, 8 and 9. Then the output today, the Adani project, and the 4 HAM project, what is the total what we expected to complete by end of this year?
By the end of this year, very clear the deliverable. Package 4 would be completed by December. That is very clear. And if we are talking about 3 HAMs, which I've already indicated that all will be completed by December. If you look into the HAM 4, where we would be completing from 65% by March and balance would be completed in next, say, 6 months in the forthcoming, say, in year '23. And if you're looking then to the Package 8 and 9, we have already progressed well. This is about 25% and 30%, which we have already achieved by March. We expect that about the, say, almost 70% would be the stage where we'll be completing these projects. Adani project or Mancherial, we're -- though they are a bit of a delay because of land availability and the management and the COVID reason. But again, we are focusing well in that and, say, March, we would be in a position to complete from 80% to 85% in that project.
And Raipur probably will complete 100% by...
I think 90% to 95%. Yes, we would be able to achieve this, in theory, by March. Because only 90%, we'll -- you will get EPC only.
And sir, on the latest, the new EPC order which we got our [ LDND ]. And how much revenue we can book this year? And you said, we can start in December and -- by November, December. Has any...
It's a very clear hypothetical assumption that we would be able to start. And definitely, the land is available even more than 90% because this project was initially conceptualized by DV, and they are having entire land in their positions, now being -- and due to NHAI. So with that, we -- but we are not counting on these numbers that any of the top lines or any of the execution possible in Andhra Pradesh or HAM projects or this daily budget, we are not counting on those numbers.
So we're just giving guidance based on the existing order, but [indiscernible] new NHAI EPC project. Right, sir?
That is correct. So any addition from this [ EPC ] execution would be in addition to what we already gave you, INR 3,200 crores.
Our next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Yes. First of all, congratulations on great set of numbers. Most of the questions has been answered. A couple of things, just to understand. First, sir, when we are saying that we have increased our QIP or the limits from INR 200 crores to INR 300 crores. So what can trigger to go for it? Is it that we can get more HAM projects that require equity commitment and that may lead to going for a QIP? Or what's the trigger that can lead to our equity raising?
Equity raising is earlier. Also last year, we already have that enabling clause of raising INR 200-odd crores. So one is that within the year, we could not raise, and it's not what's required in the company. Now, again, we are taking that call, that 200 to 300, and we are increasing the range of that particular raising of funds, from that to 300. Again, typically not required as of now. But as we are already sensing that the government is focusing more on the volume of the HAM project, we look forward that, in any case, we need to raise the fund as far as the equity part of -- and we would be in a position to raise that fund and just have that equity commitment or any of the working capital commitments at the company level.
Okay. But for this year, at least, we are not seeing -- or is it possible? So I'm trying to understand, let's say, if we are targeting INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 of new inflows. And let's say, everything comes in the HAM form. That will trigger equity raising. So that's -- I'm trying -- or is it that the monetization, if it gets delayed, so that will trigger the equity raising?
Yes, you are right. It's not that it's a doubt. It's basically a kind of a preparation, which we are ready to take on call on if we are on a HAM project where the profit margins are really good. And like if you are taking all or any such that the monetization is not possible and the provision is not possible during the year, so we are preparing for that. So we don't rule out raising the fund during the year or the next year.
Okay. Okay. Got it. And in terms of the debt level, which has slightly gone up. So now previously, we were looking at close to 2.7 -- INR 270 crores to INR 300-odd crores by year-end. So that guidance remains the same.
I think this is the same number, which we already guided and that it truly comes, ranging from this 252, 280, that range, to maximum 300. So it's not that they're fairly giving a point of time in any month. It can be in that range because we have added this INR 30-odd crores of new CapEx loan being added in this quarter only, in the month of June only. But that is all stable, and that is all right on track.
Okay. And in terms of the fund, on fund base limits, what we did last time, it is the same or any plan to increase that?
No. No. Already banks have announced their portion, and one new bank has been added, that to [indiscernible] INR 40 crores of joint documentation, which is likely we are going to sign in the month of September. And we would be having surplus of about that. Right now, it is almost -- the utilized limit is about INR 900-odd crore. I said, to be very precise, INR 850-odd crores. So we will be in a very comfortable position with that signing of this document.
Okay. And in terms of the -- just coming to the opportunity side once again. So just trying to understand in the sense that the new orders that we are looking at railway, water, and then in terms of that INR 500 crores to INR 800 crores. But in terms of the HAM, currently, right now, we are looking at [ INR 2,000 crores ] to INR 3,000-odd crores or a possibility that, as you're saying, NHAI would be having a 65%-plus awarding in the HAM. So we can go for a INR 3,000 crore to INR 4,000 crore HAM also this year.
There, we can have a precise numbers that we have indicated that roughly the order book balance, which we are running in an execution pace is about, say, almost, almost, we would be able to complete all these 4 HAM projects, if we could that. Then the organized order book of that totally as a number, it's totally 40%, that range we are looking at. So whatever we execute very fast in the HAM, even if we execute very fast, we will take on that call that the balance can be maintained in that range.
Okay. And any bids that we have already done, and I'm still not open if you can highlight that.
Yes. Sure. I think in railways, we have already bidded this call about [ INR 300-odd crores ]. And in the highways, we have already bidded an EPC that is in the range of about INR 3,500-odd crores, with results aren't yet available. Even more than that, I think I have missed one of the projects, it is INR 4,500 crores. And with that, in HAM, again, there's about INR 6,000-odd crores of projects we have already bidded, with the results aren't yet available.
So this INR 6,500 crores, is it 4, 5 projects or only 3, 4 projects?
Yes, this is [indiscernible] but I'd say 6 projects. I think, 6 or 4 projects.
Our next question is from the line of [ Drew Benrashka ] from [ Monarch AI ].
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. My questions have been answered, so thank you so much.
Our next question is from the line of [ Zed ] from ValueQuest.
I just have one question. So sir, if we look at the recent 2, 3 quarters, we are reporting very good set of numbers. So I just want to understand that what is driving this growth.
What is?
What is driving this kind of number? What is driving this kind of growth?
So, it's a kind of a preparation, which we had, say, almost at the company level, we have done. And that is not a surprise, which is an incremental number going on quarter-on-quarter basis from that range of 14% to the 16-point something percent. So it's not that typically what these 2, 3 quarters is a surprise. It's all sort of [ sounded ]. Definitely, we have left if you are running on that pace.
Our next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
Harendra-ji, first, congratulations on a very good set of numbers...
Thank you, Parikshit-ji.
Levering growth and maintaining the balance sheet health. So my first question is on the overall qualification. So what's your stand-alone qualification on water and railway projects?
Water, definitely, we are not -- that big number is real. The qualification is there. Though we did a subcontract with the [ chairman ], but those qualifications are not counted as -- but we are eligible for only INR 50-odd crores. But we have already gone into alliance with one of the contractor in the south, and we have bidded for [ policy ] of a small-sized project. It is INR 150-odd crore of 3, 4 projects at [ Aisan ]. And part of that if you are talking about the airport and railway. There, again, the qualification is almost in the range of INR 1,000-odd crores. We bidded for [ Gujarat ] airport as well for INR 1,000 crores. We could not really -- again, in railways, we saw qualification of the similar type. There is any of such typical requirement with key components like track linking. And so they are along the MOU for that track linking and electrification. So with that, we are qualified for that.
See, sir, water, we have INR 150 crores for a single project in JV. Or these 3, 4 projects, put together, [ INR 100 crores, INR 150 crores ]?
No. These are single project of 3 different projects. Single project was INR 125 crores to INR 150 crores that we are bidding.
So about INR 450 crores, INR 500 crores [indiscernible] bidding in water.
Sorry. What's the question?
About each project is about INR 150 crores, you bid for an EPC...
It's not the a very small-sized project, which we already bidded. This -- what I'm talking about INR 8,000-odd crores of [ BPR ]. We're at advanced stage at the moment. We expect that they are bidding and their tendering would be by Q3 and Q4, they will be awarded. So we are looking forward in those big projects as an opportunity.
No. No. Sir, I was asking on the JV, the JV which we have formed with a southern company. So that will make you eligible to bid for what size of projects on...
150 -- typically, 150 to 200. That's -- not more than that.
Okay. Okay. Second question is now on the southern side. We have sizable order book put together on the HAM. So what has been done there to strengthen the teams on the ground? So how have you built the leadership there with that coming out to be quite a sizable kind of order backlog? And even from the ordering perspective, more than the longer term, like segments that these geographies [indiscernible] base.
There are 2, say, typical areas where we have strengthened. One is the size of the project. Once we have -- it has gone from that small range of INR 250-odd crores to more than 700, 800, 1,500. So that really requires, say, dynamic personnel, a person at the project as the project manager. We are already having that. Once we complete any project, like if we are completing these 3 major projects of 4 even, like Rewari 1, 2 Packages, Gurgaon-Sohna and the Delhi Vadodara Package 4 by this calendar year. So we are having this available -- readily available in its entirety. They can be mobilized. And we have already done that very fast in this newly awarded Delhi project. They've already seen it there. Now we are at a very advanced state of mobilization there. And again, I'll tell you, this came up [indiscernible]. We are at the very advanced stage. We already deployed our team. So that is the one part where this trending being done. Typically, where the team is aggressively on to -- those are just for the mobilization to execution. And second part remains that CapEx, what has been there. And this was kind of a utilization or transform the mobilization of these resources from once we complete and we submitted. That's scientifically being done in proper way. So even we take on some more than INR 4,000 crores to INR 5,000-odd crores of project during this calendar year -- this financial year even. We will be in a position. But as soon as they would be in a, say, stage of start commencement, we would be able to complete the Delhi Vadodara Package 8, 9 and the Hapur.
Okay. So next question is on the 3 projects, which are in advanced stages of completion. So that -- so just wanted to know your sense on -- put together all these 4 projects will have about INR 350 crores of equity investment. So by this year-end or maybe early next year, how much of this equity can come back to us as monetization? Do you think large part of these 4 projects, at least 3 projects will get monetized and we'll get about anywhere from INR 250 crores to INR 300 crores of equity back?
Typically, it's about INR 300 crores of equity, which is we called on one-to-one in these 3 HAM projects. But we are not counting out those numbers since not much of the development was visible because of the COVID and the second wave. And again, that's advanced stage of discussion. One more [indiscernible] is interested. But we do not expect much of a, let's say, single transaction in this financial year. But definitely, in the next financial year, once we complete and we may receive first annuities by end of the first quarter of next financial year in these 3 HAMs. So by that time, we will be able to monetize this.
Okay, sir. But just one clarification on, let's say, when you start building -- when you start receiving the annuities. So how does the -- so just clarity now on the GST part because balance 50% should come as annuity. So the GST will be paid by NHAI now. And also on the interest part, which NHAI will pay, will there be a GST component on that?
With the GST, given the very, say, clear indication that they are not taking finance, is not going to give decision. GST is exempted, basically. This is all well cleared. Now what exactly NHAI is going to do just -- they are working on the impact. Actual impact was typically 2% to 2.5% in their indications. And all the developers and all the concessionaires there stay because most of them are getting their weekly payments. So they have been affected. But NHAI is not considered in the GST payments. So I think within a week time, this guideline [indiscernible] guidelines are going to be issued from NHAI regarding the GST impact, how they are going to pay. There is -- definitely, they have agreed [indiscernible] GST impact is there. That's going to be it.
Okay. Last question on the equity balance, equity to be invested. You said about INR 450 crores is to invested and out of which INR 150 crores will be invested in FY '22, INR 200 crores in FY '23 and about INR 100 crores in FY '24. So is it right? Is it correct, sir?
Correct. Correct. Quite right.
And INR 90 crores is pending in the balance for under construction projects.
That's already considering INR 150 crores, 90 plus 50 to 60 here.
Our next question is from the line of [ Dipen Shah ], an individual investor.
So most of my questions have been answered. I had a couple of questions on the margin side. Sir, we all know that there has been an increase in competition in HAM as well as in EPC projects. Now we have been able to maintain margins at about 16%, 16.5%, and this is also in a quarter where there was a INR 100 crores impact because of COVID. So if you could just help us understand like what are the couple of levers which the company is employing on a more sustainable and structural basis, because of which it is very confident of maintaining this 16%, 16.5% margin. And in the first quarter, if there was no COVID, would the margins have been in the range of over 17%?
You cannot just quantify the number what we have lost and what would be the number where the bottom line has been impacted. But definitely, there were few factors. One is the commodity prices all-time high. So that is one of the picture where the margin is affected. Not that big, 0.2%, 0.3% is really the number which we have seen. And if you're talking on the -- what strategies we have formulated or devised internally, it's only they are good having. And also, design team is there. The bidding team is very consciously bidding towards those projects. We are not much of the -- carrying not much of aggression. Definitely, it is required for acquiring new project. But it's not that. Based on calculation, we are taking risk taking. And the design optimization and again, the logistics, which we usually track out to while the mobilization of our resources and the deployment of resources intelligently being done. So these are the key parameters which has helped us maintaining this margin. We believe that we would be taking all this in the forthcoming project schedule.
Okay. And the second question was that we have achieved about INR 900-odd crore revenue in the first quarter. We are talking about -- having about INR 2,300 crores additional revenues, which we are very confident on. We have an order execution. We have projects which are about INR 4,000-odd crores, which are currently under execution. So in the next 3 quarters, is there any chance that we can actually overshoot this INR 2,300 crores to INR 2,500 crores of execution and maybe reach a revenue of INR 3,500-odd crores? I'm just making a guess on that.
Yes, sure. I think if there is no third wave already, then many of these, say, areas they are concerned. We believe that we would surpass that number.
Our next question is from the line of Charanjit Singh from DSP Mutual Fund.
Yes. Congratulations on good set of numbers. So one is on this diversification, [indiscernible] water and railways. If you can highlight what the kind of margin expectation is there in these businesses. And secondly, in terms of next 2 to 3 years, overall mix, what will you like to expect of roads versus these? That's my first question.
The only -- say, given the guidance that we would be taking all those other sector process where the margins are all there. And in fact, not doing very aggressively for take on these opportunities, sacrificing on our existing margin. So that is all the impact. And what was your second pointer?
In terms of mix, what is the mix you want to carve in the next 2 to 3 years on roads versus water and railways?
We are looking at to look into this particular -- especially if you look into this financial year, we aim at adding, honestly, 10% of the orders for these 3 sectors. And going further in next 2, 3 years by end of, say, '24 or '25, we look forward that about 25% of the orders should be a part from the highway.
Okay. And sir, in water projects, specially, if you can highlight more in terms of the nature of the projects which you are taking and how we are trying to know make sure that less is less, sir, because...
I think we have already -- already we have worked in this kind of a project. We are the only pipeline, and water storage tanks have been developed. And only the pipeline laying is there, providing water to, say, a household. So these are the typical same nature. We have -- doesn't carry much of a risk and the very plain simple project where much of the CapEx is not even required.
Okay. So what is the general execution time frame you'll see for these railways and water tanks which you are intending to do all this?
Execution? Execution?
Execution time frame, like how long is the execution of [indiscernible] for these projects?
It's normally coming at about 18 months to 36 months, depending on the size of the project.
Our next question is from the line of Abhineet Anand from Emkay Global.
My first question is, over the last few years, what has been your success rate in the EPC and HAM projects?
Success rate. So if you compare all last 3 years, we cannot average out because in the last year, it was very low, if you look into the numbers, which we have bidded versus what we have won within the project. And then the big track ratio usually is about, say, 4% in the last year, if you see that. But earlier, it was 10% to 12%, that range. In HAM, of course, definitely, last year, if you look to the EPC, one is the EPC. There was no trajectory during the last year, we put one. But prior to that, we had bidded for almost 40-odd thousand crores, and we got 10% of the bid price ratio in the year '19, '20.
So fair to assume that pre-FY '21, where you didn't do any EPC, your success rate was around 10%.
For this half year, '21?
For '21. Say, '21, you haven't...
'21 -- or with -- in EPC. I'm talking about HAM. Only 4% were there.
Yes. So '21 was 4% in HAM. EPC, we couldn't win. But I'm saying prior to '21, which is, let's assume, '20 and '19, our EPC success rate was 10%, all right.
Correct.
And so just on the -- what you look from the market, what is the opportunity size for this year that NHAI is looking out for having an EPC separately? Very broad numbers will work.
Roughly, you can estimate about 1.25 lakh crore of HAM and about, say, INR 50,000-odd crores of EPC. Let's say, EPC, 50,000 to 20,000 might be a huge call.
Okay. So EPC, you are saying 50,000-odd and 1.25 lakh of HAM.
Right.
Okay. Okay. My second is on diversification. You did mention the participant [indiscernible] on the water side. If what projects we're looking for very plain and simple projects with low risk, right, wouldn't that imply low margins as well?
No, not a big size, where we are expecting that if we are adding [ INR 200 crores ] of order from water or railways or any other sector. It doesn't gain -- we are maintaining the visibility that whatever bottom line for the margins, they are all intact while we are taking, say, bidding in these kinds of, say, diversified projects.
Okay. And when you guided for this 10% of orders in the non-highway, this is for inflows and not the book you are talking about, right? Incremental for the year, 10% will be from non-highways.
Right.
Our next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
Yes. Sir, just one question on the bid pipeline which you highlighted that we [indiscernible] we have bidded about [ INR 1,400 crores], EPC; INR 4,500 crores for projects in NHAI; and INR 6,000 crores of HAM. Sir, I just wanted to understand in which region are these projects we have bidded for, especially the state? And for railway, how many projects. And HAM, how many projects?
Typically, these things are -- they're all spread across mostly north, Gujarat, Kashmir, Punjab and Delhi. And say a few of them are light railways. And one more, obviously, of the HAMs are from Maharashtra even. So it's a mix, basically, spread across India.
So basically, sir, railway is only one project. Right, sir?
This is 4%, basically. All together, INR 1,300-odd crores.
And EPC, you said 4 projects, INR 4,500 crores. For HAM, how many projects, sir?
It's almost, I think, 5 to 6 projects for INR 6,000 crores.
Sir, on the qualification part, you said for airports and railways you can qualify to bid independently for projects above the INR 1,000 crores. Right, sir?
Yes. To be very specific, if we do not have any, say, kind of a qualification linkage where the terminal building or electrification or such things being added. So then I think we are highly qualified to bid for the Gujarat airport. So this is the -- the government has already indicated who has service expertise in a similar kind of nature of the project. So they would be splitting those activity, say, into 2 parts. One is -- again, in railways, they are splitting those activities, so again, track linking and the electrification being awarded in a separate tender.
Okay. So you're doing the sale part that is what we find.
Yes.
And sir, on the water, you said only INR 150 crore you can build for in JV with the southern player. But sir, we had already bidded for a larger project in the past, which we did not get the LOA.
It was one of the arrangements being done last year when we bidded for a larger size. It was INR 450 crores. But this year, we are not having those, say, typically those kind of projects right now to be bidded. But we are having those joint venture alliance for water sector, where 400 to 700 or even whatever size is there, we will be able to bid.
Of course, and even we can bid for 400 to 700 crores. Right?
If it's a joint venture, it is quite possible we can bid.
Our next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Yes. Sir, what is the inventory number as on June?
It is INR 186 crores.
INR 186 crores. And trade receivable, you said, including the retention, it would be around INR 835-odd crores.
No. No. Trade receivable, if you're talking, it's 590 plus 220 to 246. Almost the same. Yes.
Okay. And then the trade payable?
Trade payable is roughly 500.
Okay. And sir, equity, the total for 4 HAM existing -- ongoing was INR 369-odd crores, and we have already invested close to INR 267 crores, so INR 101-odd crores is remaining. I'm just calculating, is there any change in that number? Or...
It is likely to get reduced by INR 10 crores -- INR 10-odd crores.
Is it possible to give a project-wise equity required for the existing project?
Shravan, we can give to you later online. I'm not having really where the INR 10 crores is exactly being saved. I think it's the number. But roughly, I'm indicating it about INR 90-odd crore, which would be funded. Our equity requirement is there for DSM, for HAM.
Okay. Okay. No issues. And in the remaining, the new 3 HAM project, when we are saying INR 150-odd crores to be invested this year, so the INR 90 crores when we will be investing in existing? And remaining INR 60-odd crores, this would be in the Telangana Package 1 or it would be in the both the packages, Telangana?
On the package which we are visualizing, where we will be able to get the contract rate. We are taking on that particular project only.
Okay. But both the Telangana project, we are not expecting any equity commitment this year, at least.
So unless, we received the contract, we cannot have. The expectation is that by March, if we are going to get it in April, it will be required. It will take another 1 month or 2 months once we receive the quantity, then only the equity requirement would be there. By that time, EPC mobilization to design, to move everything. It's on the EPC part. Nothing to be done in the SPV.
That was the last question. I now hand over the floor back to Mr. Harendra Singh for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone, for your participation in our quarter 1 FY '22 earnings call. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with Pareto Capital or feel free to get in touch with us. We look forward to interacting with you in the next quarter. Stay safe. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of H.G. Infra Engineering Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.