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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '20 Earning Conference Call of H.G. Infra Engineering Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Harendra Singh, Chairman and Managing Director, H.G. Infra. Thank you, and over to you, sir. ]
Good morning, everyone. I welcome you all to our earnings conference call of quarter 3 and 9 months FY '20. I have with me on the call Mr. Rajeev Mishra, our CFO; and Pooja from Pareto Capital, our IR adviser.Let me first start with quarterly financial performance. During the quarter, we reported a 4.1% year-on-year growth in revenue at INR 573 crores. The revenue for the corresponding period for the last quarter stood at INR 550 crore. This quarter, our execution was impacted by a complete construction ban in the NCR region for 40 days due to Supreme Court order on pollution issue. The EBITDA margin stood at INR 88 crore in Q3 FY '20, was up by 9.4% as compared to INR 80 crores in Q3 FY '19. EBITDA margin grew from 14.6% in Q3 FY '19 to FY -- to 15.4% in Q3 FY '20.Profit before tax grew at higher rate of 13.7% year-on-year to INR 59 crores. Profit after tax for Q3 FY '20 stood at INR 41.5 crore, up 17.8% year-on-year as compared to INR 35.2 crore in the corresponding period of previous year. PAT margin grew from 6.4% in Q3 FY '19 to 7.2% in Q3 FY '20.Now coming to the 9 months financial performance. Total revenue for 9 months FY '20 stood at INR 1,573 crore, an increase of 10% year-on-year as compared to INR 1,429 crores in 9 months FY '19. EBITDA stood at INR 240 crore, growth of 14.8% as compared to the same period last year. EBITDA margin in 9 months FY '20 improved to 15.3%. Last year, it was 14.7%. Net profit after tax stood at INR 114 crore for 9 months FY '20 as compared to INR 86.8 crore during the same period last year, with a growth of 32% and the PAT margin of 9 months FY '20 stood at 7.3%.Regarding the order inflow and the order book, it gives me a great pleasure to share you that in month of December '19, the company received a HAM order of INR 532 crore. This project involved construction of Rewari bypass as a feeder route in Rewari district with a design length of 14.4 kilometers. This project is in close proximity in continuation to Rewari-Ateli Highway that we are already executing in Haryana. We will thus have an advantage of logistics and resource deployment, thereby leading to timely and efficient mobilization. Taking this new order, our order book stood at INR 6,159 crore as on 31st December, 2019. Out of the total order book, 68% are EPC contracts, 32% are HAM projects. In terms of statewide breakup, 32% is from Haryana, followed by 26% in Rajasthan, 17% in Uttar Pradesh, 15% in Telangana, 6% in Maharashtra and 3% in Goa.Let me now give you a status of some of the projects under execution. Even after the construction ban, I'm glad to share that we have completed approx 40% of Rajiv chowk HAM project, near the Gurgaon-Soha project. The execution on Hapur-Moradabad EPC contract is also progressing well, and we have completed close to 14% of the work. After receiving the appointed date of Delhi-Vadodara project on 10th of December 2019, we have completed close to 7% in that project.We recently received appointed date of Rewari-Ateli HAM project. We are already fully mobilized there and have started execution aggressively. This project should see a meaningful execution in the fourth quarter. All the MoRTH projects in the state of Maharashtra are nearing completion as we have completed more than 85% of the work there. COD in these projects is expected in this quarter only, in this fourth quarter.Chittorgarh project of TPL, Tata Projects, is also nearing completion. Coming to the projects where we are yet to start our execution. In the Narnaul Bypass HAM project, we already are in possession of about [ 75% ] land. We have submitted financial closure documents to NHAI, so with both FC and land aligned, we expect to get the appointed date of this project very soon.In Adani Telangana project, the resource mobilization and all the preconstruction activities are in full swing. Appointed date is expected by end of this year, means somewhere in the month of March 2020. For the Goa airport, the Supreme Court has lifted the suspension and EC has been granted on 20th of Jan. We will be signing the contract agreement within next few months, and it will be started very soon.Coming to the outlook and the guidance. We are looking forward to a very robust fourth quarter, given most of our high-value projects, including Delhi-Vadodara, Hapur-Moradabad, Gurgaon-Soha, Rewari-Ateli are already under [ verification ]. In addition, Narnaul Bypass would start execution in this quarter only. This gives us confidence to achieve our revenue guidance of approximately INR 2,350 crore to INR 2,400 crore in FY '20. Also, we are targeting additional order inflow of INR 2,000 crores to INR 2,500 crores in this year, which will help us in the ending of the year with INR 7,500 crore to INR 8,000 crore order book with a good visibility for next 2 years.Our focus continues to be on profitable growth, and we have achieved the sustained increase in the margins. We have been very selective in bidding for the projects where the real profitability is available there, not compromising on our margin, and we will be continuing to do so.That is all from my side. I will now request the moderator to open the call for the question-and-answers. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from the line of Mayank Goel from SBICAP Securities.
Had couple of questions. The first one, how is the competition in bidding scenario right now in the projects recently awarded? We saw some 12, 13 participants in EPC and lesser in HAM, and there were some foreign players also on projects. So what is the scenario right now? And what will be your strategy going forward while participating in bids?
Definitely, we saw very, say, high aggression in all the bids of EPC as well as HAM. There were quite a, say, selective bidders only. But going forward, as with the appetite that we have seen that the foreign players already taken some 3 to 4 projects and where we have bidded, already we have bidded for almost INR 8,000 crore plus projects as well on an EPC basis. We look forward that we will be having a fair chance to get these projects where the profit margins are intact.
So these INR 8,000 crore of projects where you have participated, it will be opened in the coming months? Or these are the projects which have already been opened?
No, no, no. They are yet to be open. They're within, say, the first week of February, we are expecting some INR 4,000 crores of projects. The bid opening is awaited. And then, therefore, within next 10 days, more, say, ballots will be opened.
Okay. So the INR 2,000 crore and INR 2,500 crore of additional orders which we are targeting, would mostly come from these bids that we are participant in.
Yes. Further to that, say, there are quite a few bids, which we are looking at about INR 15,000 crore of bids that we are looking to bid in the month of February and March. The bids have already been called. They are all on EPC and few on HAM.
Okay. Okay. Sir nextly, is the work on Maharashtra MoRTH projects going slow? Because in third quarter, we did just INR 78 crores against the first quarter run rate of almost INR 200 crores. And we still have some INR 360 crore pending in order book, which we are targeting to complete by March '20 itself. So is there some...
To clarify the present status, see, we have completed the entire stretch where the land was handed over to us. And that -- with that, there was a clear instructions now given from the ministry, wherever the land is not available if the project is completed more than 90%, they are going to issue the COD. So the balance work, which we see as of now is about INR 220 crore to INR 225 crore would be left out. And that would be completed in a separate supplementary agreement in all the projects and say, it would be done in the period of next 1 year, where the -- we would be there for O&M, during the O&M period. So to be very clear, that entire CPC growth, we would be able to execute, where the balance INR 225 crore will be left out, and it would be dealt in the supplementary agreement. But we will be getting the completion on all the projects.
Okay. Okay. And sir, last question from my side. Now post the NCR ban when -- where we have downturned our revenue guidance also. At the current guidance, we require some INR 750 crores, INR 800 crores of revenues in fourth quarter alone. And we understand that most of the big ticket size projects will be under execution. So can you help us with some major breakup in projects, like what can be the execution in NCR projects, and what will you be doing in other projects?
See, for this current quarter, the quarter 4, we are expecting some INR 115 crores to INR 120 crores of revenue from Gurgaon-Soha, some, say, INR 200 crores of revenue -- already we have done some INR 70 crores, additional INR 135 crores plus from Delhi-Vadodara Alwar project. In Hapur-Moradabad, we are expecting about INR 135 crore additional revenue in this particular quarter out of what we have already done, say, 14% we have already completed. And in Rewari-Ateli, that could be quite significant because in that project, we are, say, at a very comfortable stage and all the mobilization and the execution as well is going on at a really very fast pace. We again expect in Narnaul, say, in both of these HAM 2 and HAM 3, we expect about INR 165 crores of revenue. So that gives us visibility that in the NCR, we would be able to execute, say, more than INR 500 crores. And apart from that, Bhilwara and Chittor, IRB and Tata project and Jodhpur World Bank-funded project and the ministry-funded, say, MoRTH projects of Maharashtra maybe significantly contribute to enable us to target at least what we are looking at about INR 750 crores to INR 800 crores during the current quarter.
Next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Yes. Sir, in terms of the continuing on the project specific. So as you said, like, now all the projects -- big-ticket projects have started. Just wanted one thing. So now when the ban is over, maybe it is there in the night still. So the basic question is, will the top 8, 9 projects, are we able to complete on time. So most of the projects are having the 2-year execution period, whether it is Adani project because this will be contributing significantly in FY '21 revenue. So are we on target in terms of completing on time? And is there any issue in terms of any project in terms of the land-related issues?
No. As such, say, earlier, as I already said, that in the Maharashtra projects, quite a few stretches were not handed over just because that at the end of this year, we could not complete some INR 200 crores. But in these projects, there is -- having the typical, say, availability of land, all issue being sorted [indiscernible] prior to the appointed date, thus the appointed date was delayed in all 3 projects. So we are in a much, much, say, better position that we would be completing all these projects within the assigned period of 24 months.
Okay. Okay. And whatever the -- in terms of the projects that we have bidded INR 8,000 crore plus what we are targeting, INR 15,000 crore to be bidded, how much now we are comfortable or targeting in terms of getting HAM projects? So for this year also and next year also, whatever the inflow we are targeting, how much are we comfortable to get additional HAM projects?
See, as already indicated, that the total order size, which as of now is about [ 30% ] HAM projects. You will not want to be beyond that 30% of the HAM projects. Like for the current year, if we are looking at some INR 2,500 crores, we will be in a position to take HAM projects of about INR 800 crore to INR 1,000 crore size. And going further, we will be maintaining the same ratio.
Okay, okay. And in terms of the, sir, some date figures for the December? What is the gross debt, including the current maturities?
It's about INR 318 crores with total term loan, OD and total debt. This promoter debt has been increased by INR 9 crore in the quarter 3. Earlier, it was INR 44 crore. Now it is INR 53 crore.
Okay. And...
With the debt at that level -- at this level, we, again, look that by the quarter end, say, financial year-end, what we have already indicated is INR 275 crore would be the figure, which we are aiming at, at the end of this current financial year.
Okay. And sir, on the next year, the way that we have reduced the revenue guidance for next year, last time we said around INR 3,000, INR 3,100 crore revenue for FY '21. So are we also INR 100 crores, INR 200 crore, are we reducing the target for FY '20 earnings?
No, no, no. For FY '21, we are placed. We -- as of now, within next 2 months, we would be getting the appointed date on the balance project. With that, there will be clear visibility for the execution, which we already have indicated some INR 3,100 crores for the next year.
Okay, okay. And sir, in terms of the equity investment in the HAM, how much have we invested? And last time whatever we have guided, so are we on track in terms of equity investment in HAM? Or is there any change?
No. No. Say, I will just clarify that. Already in HAM 1, say, Gurgaon-Soha, we have INR 41.5 crores due already inducted. In HAM 2, the Rewari-Ateli project, we have already, say, given -- say, INR 38 crore [ equity inducted]. And now for this financial year in HAM 1, we would be requiring just INR 10 crores. And for HAM 2, we would be requiring, say, 0 -- for this financial year it would be 0. And in HAM 3, we would be requiring some INR 55 crores of equity for this financial year, where we are expecting the appointed date by, say, for mid-February from that. So with this INR 55 crores of equity would be inducted in all 3 HAMs during the financial year, this current financial year, balance 2 months. And going ahead to FY '21, some INR 20 crore will be required as a balanced equity for Gurgaon-Soha project, HAM 1. And Rewari-Ateli, HAM 2, we would be requiring the balance equity of INR 38 crores, and we'll be viewing the entire completion within next year. And HAM 3, we would be requiring the balance equity of INR 83 crores. And with that, INR 141 crores of equity would be required out of these 3 HAM projects during the FY '21.
Okay. Okay. And lastly, on the, sir, working capital, just trying to -- overall, it seems the way the data days has increased, [ debtor ] days has also increased. So how do we see that? And particularly, sir, what are these contract assets because that is -- seems to be increasing significantly. So how do we see at the end of this year and the next year?
Say, end of this year, this quarter, we have seen that infuse the project like Delhi-Vadodara or say, Rewari-Ateli, there has been revenue, which we could not build because, say, it will all be built by end of this January as a technical aspect. Number two is the contract assets are those only the big size contract assets that we have on our books. And regarding the cash and bank balance, we are having some INR 51 crores and INR 106 crores of FDR, with this INR 157 crores of cash and FDR balance against INR 96 crores, which we were having at the end of second quarter.
Okay. So overall, we don't see the working capital days to be rising from here? Or are we -- can see even reduction in working capital days by end of March?
No, no. I think they will be in a better control now onwards.
We take the next question from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
Congratulations on decent set of numbers.
Sir, I'm so sorry to interrupt. Requesting you to please speak a bit louder. Your audio is not very audible.
Okay. Sir, congratulations on decent set of numbers this quarter. So can you quantify what was the revenue loss due to the EC ban this quarter?
Revenue loss in this particular NCR -- due to the NCR construction ban, it has been some INR 75 crores to INR 80 crores in all the 3 projects we were already having. The 2 other projects we were having the project date then much earlier. At the Delhi-Vadodara, the project date was given on 10th of December. So by then, because of -- after 10th of December, there was a partial ban in the night hour. The only the day hour, 6 am to 6 pm, it was opened.
Okay. Any update on the Rajasthan project receivables and what is the amount, which is still pending? And what kind of budgets have been sanctioned by the government, so making the dues -- or say, payment of the dues?
See, with the first revision in the budget, it's earlier. During the quarter 3, we have received some INR 16 crores of, say, payment from these projects. And as a first cut, means there is a revision one and revision two. In revision one, they have given some INR 18 crores more, which would be paid to us by this, I think, month end within next 3 days or the first week of February. And again, there is a proposal of again sanctioning some INR 200 crore in this particular project, being they are taken on the highest priority by the CM because they are willing to continue these projects -- project, and they want that they all should be completed by month of June. So we expect that the revision 2 would be, say, by mid of February, it would be released.
What will be the total outstanding receivables here in this project?
As of now, it is about INR 210 crore.
INR 210 crores. And how much is the balance works to be completed here?
See, we have completed some INR 345 crore. Out of INR 340 crores, say, it was INR 596 crore and some almost INR 80 crores, INR 90 crores of the project, which we are not viewing to be completed by June. Balance was already completed.
So how much -- so you're saying, how much is the...
See, INR 151 odd crore would be completed within next 5 months.
Okay. So by the time this project gets completed, how much will be the pending receivables then? Because right now, it's INR 210 crores you're saying and you may receive INR 200 crores. That goes away. But then you have to execute the balance work. So what will be the pending receivables?
See, government, again, as I said, they are having a very serious and keen concern on these -- progress on these projects. They have allocated some INR 450 crores in these World Bank-funded projects, which we are running off as 3 projects, and additional one project is there of INR 250 crore size which is under execution by another contractor. So for that, they have provided entire funding for the next financial year. So we do not foresee much of the stress like we had in this current financial year in these projects.
By June, you will complete the entire work and now there won't be any payment outstanding by that time?
By the time, not, definitely, not.
Okay. Okay. Sir, just on the banking environment right now. So what kind of -- any improvement you are seeing in terms of like more lenders willing to lend for the HAM projects, both on the private and PSU side? And also on the downselling of the HAM debt, so any improvements there? If you can highlight that.
Yes, sure. There is a, say, positive improvement as far as PSU, mainly you have seen that they have -- they are very keen on taking and there it's not only underwriting, they are also keen on downsell, say, portion of the project. I have seen the interest for PSU, which was not seen earlier. Other than that, I think, private payers are also taking all the additional funding that they've already taken off the fund that the HAM 4 that we are already about to receive the letter of acceptance. Post that, they are very keen on funding that particular project.
It will be -- in PSU, it will be primarily led by SBI or other banks also now coming back?
No, no, no. Other banks, I'm talking of other banks, not only SBI, I'm talking about other PSUs. There are almost 5-odd PSUs we are in touch, and we have -- they have given the positive indication to it.
Okay. Sir, on the ordering side, so this year, how much ordering you're expecting NHAI to complete with like by FY '20 then?
Still as per, say, the last week, we had, say, a detailed review being done by our investors. And there, it has been indicated some INR 60,000 crore plus projects, which are, say, to be bidded within next 2 months.
60 -- how much, INR 60,000 crores?
INR 60,000 crores, 6-0.
Okay. And what will be the mix of HAM and EPC here?
Yes. Obviously, it's about -- it's almost 50% is there. EPC, though they are at about INR 25,000 crores, but they are -- not many projects are there, which, in the NCR and Haryana, I see many of the projects in Rajasthan, the Himachal, Punjab.
Okay. Okay. So -- because I think NHAI has already awarded close to INR 23,000 crores by December. So another INR 50,000 crores means that they'll end up there at somewhere around INR 70,000 crores to INR 80,000 crore.
That's right.
Okay. Okay, sir. Just last one last thing. And on the -- you said that you won't be taking new HAM projects because of the maintaining that mix of 30-70. So are you -- and the kind of competitive intensity we are seeing in the EPC segment. So are you willing to take more subcontracting projects from developers like Adani or IRB or any other developer?
See, as of now, we don't see further because we are not tied up for any of the projects.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Viral Shah from Prabhudas Lilladher.
Sir, first of all, there is a difference in...
Mr. Shah, requesting you to please speak a bit louder, sir.
Hello? This is better? Hello?
Yes, sir. You my please go ahead.
Yes. Sir, we have seen that there is difference between your standalone and consol numbers. What is the difference pertaining to? Because when you look at revenue, there is a loss and at the profitability level that is also a loss, close to INR 8 crores, sir.
See, there are 2 major reasons. One is the Tata Projects JV. This Tata Projects JV earlier, we were having the arrangements with the profit and loss, the loss was not borne by H.G. in any case. And the profit sharing was there, but it has been later discussed that the profit and share marks, both sides, we would not be going ahead with. So it -- and so with that, there is an impact of about INR 3.5 crores, the loss. Yes. So another is the subsidiary, what we'll say, SPV, where because of the, say, front -- see, what we have executed in Gurgaon-Soha project earlier would -- where we have received, say, much more revenue rather than what we are executed in the quarter 3. So there is a difference of about INR 3 crores to INR 4 crores. So on the consol figure, you will be seeing that there is a negative.
Yes. So this will be reversed, right, in fourth quarter, sir?
Yes. Obviously, not for Tata Projects, I think for SPV, it would be reversed.
For SPV, it would be reversed. So this fourth quarter for Tata Projects is -- would continue? Or it is almost...
No, no. Still about INR 75 crores of work is left out, which is under progress because the work size has been increased from INR 483 crores to INR 550 crores.
Okay. Fair enough, sir. Sir, secondly, I just missed the opening remarks. So what will be your bid pipeline be for EPC and HAM put together for...
We are targeting to bid almost INR 15,000 crores to INR 20,000 crores -- INR 18,000 crores worth of projects, mainly as an EPC and some 3, 4 projects on the HAM basis.
Okay. 3, 4 projects on HAM basis as well?
For bidding. That is the bidding pipeline that we are seeing.
And out of this INR 15,000 crores to INR 18,000 crores, sir, any key projects which you would have liked to highlight where we would be keen on bidding?
Yes. Again, the same as in Delhi-Vadodara, much of -- say, almost 6-odd projects are left out to be bidded. And in NCR, few of the EPC projects are there in Haryana as well. Those are all EPC, and UP -- election part of UP. So these are all the projects which we are looking at in the EPC mode. And in HAM, again, 1 or 2, they are in different places in Gujarat, Haryana and Telangana even.
Fair enough, sir. And lastly, sir, on the CapEx front, what is the CapEx number for 9 months and for the full year?
So we have added some, say, INR 32 crores of new CapEx and the [ locked up ] which has been difficult, we have sold some INR 18 crores during this quarter and during the entire 9 months. So it has been increased by effectively by INR 14 crores. Earlier, the gross level INR 610 crores, now it has been increased to INR 624 crores.
Okay. And what is the plan for the full year FY '20?
As I said earlier, not, say, much of the CapEx will be added and only INR 15 crore to INR 20 crore would be added.
For the fourth quarter?
For the fourth quarter. Yes.
Next question is from the line of Amber Singhania from Asian Markets Securities.
Just one clarification I wanted on our Narnaul HAM project, last...
Mr. Singhania, I'm so sorry to interrupt. Requesting you to please speak a bit louder, sir.
Is it better now? Yes. Sir, so Narnaul project, last quarter con-call also, you mentioned that 75% of land is already acquired. And right now, also the status is same as 75%. So just wanted to understand where exactly the further acquisition of land is delayed on that part?
So as far as acquisition is concerned, the availability of land is 75%. But because of construction ban in that particular period of time, the people those who have not handed over the land at that particular time, they have sold the crop in that particular grace period. So because of that, it has been delayed. Now we see that by 15th of February or by end of February, that all crops will be, say, harvested. So then we are much hopeful that unless and until the entire land is not phased, construction cannot be started. We do not see much of a sense taking the appointed date. So that is how it has been delayed.
So in a month's time, we should be able to get the CD?
So the harvest...
What is...
Yes, the harvesting plan is now, say, first week of February onwards, the harvesting would be started.
Okay. And sir, what is the land acquisition status in HAM 4, which we have got recently?
Again, these all 3 projects, because they're all in the single alignment, so you have package, 2, 3 and 4. So in this project as well, there is at a very advanced stage. And we see further -- if everything is there, within 5 months we will be getting the appointed date.
Okay. Okay. Secondly, sir, what is the status of reappointment of someone for -- the appointment for someone in the place of Mr. Raja Dutta? Have we finalized someone or the place is still vacant on that part?
So as such, whatever operation systems and everything because with -- we are having all department heads working in their different position, they are all working well. It's not very, say, smooth, we are required to appoint somebody. But again, we are having, say, as sir had already told, that we have established some regional operation, NCR, Gurgaon. So that has helped us. So there we are empowering that we believe in the decentralization, we are empowering that location and we will be getting the better results. So it doesn't -- say, as of now, there's no -- very soon, we do not require anyone.
Okay. Okay. Fine. And sir, just lastly, I missed the guidance for the next year, which you mentioned. Can you just repeat that?
For the next year, means 2021? We've...
Yes.
We are better placed with all the projects getting there and funded by the end of this financial year. We are in the position to execute some INR 3,100 crores as already guided.
Okay. And CapEx guidance, sir, for next year?
Again, not much of the CapEx. It's a INR 51-odd crore every year.
Fine. Sir, just one last question. Apart from this INR 141 crore, which you will be requiring for equity of HAM 1, 2, 3. Roughly, how much you will be needing for HAM 4 approximately? And by what way we are planning to fund these equity infusion in FY '21?
For FY '21, out of these 3 HAM, we have -- we will be requiring INR 141 crores. And for HAM 4, it would be INR 40 crores, INR 65 crores of equity, which will be required. Again, it would be in 2 tranche because in the year FY '21, it will be some INR 35-odd crores and balance would be required in FY '22.
And all will be from internal accruals, sir, entire INR 175 crore?
Yes, as such we do not see much of the stress as far as the entire -- looking into the entire cash accruals with the risk -- the requirement for the EPC for the next year.
Next question is from the line of Jitendra Rushi from Bank of Baroda Capital.
Sir, on the equity front, as you said for Gurgaon-Soha, we have already invested INR 41 crores, but last time it was more of INR 50 crore what I -- when we met in December. So it is -- is it same number or it has come [ down ]?
Broader -- I mean, the number is very clear, it is INR 41.5 crores to be clear. I think it was -- by mistake it was unheard or communicated.
Okay. And sir, on the Narnaul project, we were supposed to invest INR 95 crore upfront as per the last call. And now, you said we have to...
So to clarify this, there is the total requirement of INR 138 crore, which we see as such it would be in the form of IDC and INR 95 crore will be equity, okay?INR 43 crore is what we are expecting. That's okay. This is the long-term money which can be -- promoter can use, promoter can lend into SPV directly. But as of now, I have taken that entire equity which we require as of INR 138 crores and INR 95 crores plus INR 43 crores from the company side, but we have got the, say, alternate option that it would be funded, INR 43 crores, which will be required till the end of completion. You cannot take it out. So there can be the promoter fund, even it can be inducted like that.
Okay. So promoter can increase further equity, that is what...
Yes. That INR 43 crore, we are having the, say, leverage that we wouldn't require this particular amount from the company side as the equity.
So any reasons -- what is the reason behind that? Like, you don't need -- you need less equity and then if you need more equity, you will put it from your pocket. So any reason why it is so?
No. No. See, as per the SBI lending, what -- they have given the sanction, but I'm talking of -- for that reason.
Okay. So you mean to say, total out of INR 138 crores, actually you need only INR 95 crore. And if at all you need more equity, it will be ported through promoter as a sub-debt, the parent will invest more. You could say that?
Yes.
Yes. Okay. And yes, and sir, on the CapEx, I just missed out. You said INR 30 crore of CapEx has been done so far and you'll be doing additional INR 15 crore to INR 20 crore of CapEx in Q4. Right, sir?
Yes. Quite right. We have added INR 32 crore. We have sold INR 18 crore during the current year. So net addition is INR 14 crore. And further, we would be adding some INR 25 crore.
INR 20 crore, INR 25 crore, Q4. Okay. And sir, last question on the Rajasthan project. Obviously, you said that, that INR 100 crore of work will still remain and you will get the supplementary agreement, which you will execute next year. Right, sir?
Well, this I'm talking about, not in the -- there are 2 kinds, say, one is Maharashtra projects. We are almost INR 220 crores of the project would be left out. That would be dealt in the supplementary agreement. That is handed over to us. That is the Maharashtra project. And these projects, so the Rajasthan projects, almost INR 80 crores, INR 85 crores of the projects are there, where the land is still not there. So we are looking at completion of about INR 525 crore out of INR 596 crore.
Okay. So then you will not -- remaining depending on the land?
Depending upon the land at the end of this June, when we complete the entire scope, which is given to us, and post that if it has been handed over, then it would be completed. Otherwise, it could be dealt in the supplementary agreement.
So basically, by June end, we should be receiving -- by June, July, you should be receiving all the receivables also, pending receivables?
Yes. Yes. Yes. That we are looking for the quarter.
Okay, okay. And sir, the interest cost was a bit high sequentially. So it is because of the bidding which we have participated, resulted in high finance charge? Or any other reason behind that?
So no, the reason as you have seen, all 3 HAMs, we are having a uniform EPC contract as from the SPVs. And HAM 2 and HAM 3, we are having those interest costs back to back, say, loaded to EPC. On HAM 1, we were not having that, say, in the agreement. Now we are having the similar format for the all HAMs. So that -- for that reason, some INR 2.7 crores of interest which was incurred by an SPV, we are getting the mobilization advance from NHAI, that has been now debited to H. G. account.
Okay. So now going forward, that will happen to the parent only? It will not go to...
That is, yes, yes, yes. And again, it would be all stable like INR 11 crore to INR 12 crore per quarter.
Okay. So you mean to say, in Q4, we can see the cost coming down 11% to 12% -- INR 11 crore to INR 12 crore, and that could be the run rate. So what could -- what is the mobilization advance outstanding in the books as of now? And what is the interest charged by NHAI on mobilization advance?
Mobilization, the interest as a percentage, they are charging from 8.3% to 8.4%, I think, and the mobilization advance outstanding is INR 133 crores.
Okay. And do we see this going up because of the new projects coming up?
Yes, obviously, because in all the 2 HAMs, the balance that we would be taking the mobilization advance from SPV. Say, for Delhi-Vadodara project, we are having some balanced mobilization advance to be taken from NHAI.
We take the next question from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC securities.
What is the NWC days as of third Q -- 3Q FY '20?
Net working capital?
Yes, days, yes.
Yes, that is the same as in 58 days, coming about 58 days because the debtor, they have been increased, but the same with creditors has been increased. So there is not much of an impact in the net working capital.
And by the year-end FY '20, we are expecting a similar kind of number?
Rather, for net working capital, it will be the same. But the debtor days would likely, let's say, are going to be decreased, say, by 7 to 10 days.
Okay. So reduce -- you will basically reduce your creditors?
Yes.
Okay. So just I did not understand quite about that consolidated -- why the loss is coming. So if you can just explain that. You mentioned about the Tata JV, there was some loss. What was that loss for?
No, no. Say -- but there were no loss. Basically, earlier, we were having the NGT ban, when it was like entire loss -- say, whatever loss would be there, it would be not debited to H. G. account. So we will be not accountable for. There was a -- profit sharing was there, but later on, it has been agreed that whatever profit sharing that we have because we pay -- just -- JV is with not for any profit sharing. So basically, it has now been modified that the entire loss and profit, so we would not be accountable, and we would not be benefited with the profit. So whatever profit we have posted earlier, that has been written off, it [ will be revised ].
So what is exactly this JV doing then? I mean, this is executing that project, right?
Basically, the project is having this typical kind of a tie up that we are getting this particular project from TPL just because we have entered into this JV, say, enabling TPL to qualify for the EPC projects from NHAI.
But is this JV executing any project directly for NHAI?
No. None.
So -- but then why is this profit or loss coming? Is it just because of the cost? Because there's no revenue booking here. So is it like...
No. No. Just to clarify this, with Tata Reality, they have given this EPC contract to JV. This JV is going to qualify because TPL was not having any qualification way for NHAI to approve as a EPC contractor. For that reason, it was a JV being formed. And for -- our intention was that we would be getting this particular project from TPL based on the JV what -- which we have done.
But as of now, is this JV executing any project?
No. This is the only one which they are doing.
That is the only one, right? So -- and we are not bidding directly for any other NHAI project through this JV?
No, no. Not at all. No.
Just for getting projects from TPL directly, and TPL gets the HAM or the beauty project, and then this JV gets that EPC work from there, and then we execute it, right? That is the only purpose of this JV?
This particular JV being formed was with this Tata Realty, this Udaipur-Chittor project only. The specific reason was that they are not qualifying for the -- as a EPC contractor because they are to be approved by NHAI. So they were not in a position to get it approved.
Okay, okay. So entire profit and loss on this project execution of Gulabpura will come through this JV, and then we'll get our share of profits from there, right?
No, no, no. For this particular TPL and H. G. JV, they have given us the subcontract to HGINFRA, which is INR 483 crore. Now it has been increased to INR 550 crore, okay? So for us, it's only the subcontracting work which we are doing as we do for IRB. Like for IRB, if it'd been an SPV, being given work to MRM, so we are getting work from MRM, here we are getting work from JV.
Okay. Okay. And you are billing the entire work through the JV, and JV is making payment, and they're retaining some margins -- the JV is retaining some margins?
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
Okay. And some minimum -- minimal margins, I'm saying, very less margins there.
Very less margins [ as classified ].
We take the next question from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking.
Yes. Just a question on the debt. You said the debt number was INR 318 crores. That includes the promoter debt? Or that is...
Yes, that includes the promoter debt of INR 53 crores. Yes.
Okay. Sure. Yes, that's the only clarification I wanted.
Next question is from the line of Rita Tahilramani from Invesco Mutual Fund.
Could you please help us with the status of the Adani EPC project as of now?
This project, which we are at a very advanced stage of mobilization, we already established some pressures, all entire plants and everything is done. And the design is in progress. All preconstruction activities are shaping up. And the financial closure documents by Adani, they have already submitted to NHAI under, I think, scrutiny. We expect -- because the land and there are some wildlife, which is in that particular project. There is about 3.5 kilometer wildlife, so there the permission is awaited. So we expect that by end of March, it is -- it would all be done. Because unless and until we are getting the permission from the forest, we would be not be taking the any appointed date further.
So you're saying by March, we will receive the appointment date?
Correct.
Okay. Okay. And what are the terms of agreement for the HAM 2 project with the lenders?
Sorry?
So what's your terms of agreement for the second HAM project with the lenders, which we've recently received the appointment date?
[indiscernible], this is the same as we had with the earlier first HAM project, so 50% equity already done. Now we will be getting the funding in the form of [ loan for days of funded ] as we require. And going further, during the course of execution, we will be putting more equity of 50%, which is balance.
Okay. Okay. In terms of -- what's your target for gross debt for FY '20?
Target for?
Gross debt for FY '20.
So as I said earlier, it was -- it is INR 275 crore, including the promoter debt.
INR 275 crores, sorry?
Yes, INR 275 crores.
And that -- the amount will remain for FY '20 also? That is your target for FY '20, ending the gross debt also?
By FY '21?
By FY '20 end, Q4 end.
For Q4 end, it is INR 275 crores, including the promoter debt.
Okay. Okay. What is the current cost of debt?
Roughly, it's OD as well as term loan, roughly it is coming at about 9.5%.
9.5%. And last question, we mentioned that we've done a sale of INR 18 crores in terms of CapEx when you had mentioned. Yes, so what is the accounting for it? How have we accounted for it?
Whatever we acquire, means whatever we purchase and whatever we sell, so INR 18 crore of those of the CapEx, which really, as far as age is concerned, we are having the policy, if any of the equipment achieve any, say, working hours or years, we normally sell them out. So this is INR 18 crores of equipment that we have sold. Gross block -- particularly, the gross block has been increased by only INR 14 crores.
Next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. [Operator Instructions]
Yes. Sir, last time, we said, we adopted the new tax rate. So this time, the tax rate was 30.2% and for the 9 months also it is 28.8%. So is it fair to assume that by end of this year, we would be having a 25.6%, which is the new tax rate and that would be the going forward?
Tax rate, would -- it would be same, 25.1%.
Yes. So whatever the adjustment has to happen, it will be in the fourth quarter because till 9 months, we are having a slightly higher tax rate of 28.3%?
Yes. By end of this year, you would be having the entire done, what was required has been done.
Okay. Okay. And sir, what is the retention money as on December?
It is INR 155 crores.
Pardon, INR 135 crores?
INR 155 crores.
INR 155 crores. How much additional mobilization advance is still pending out of all the projects? Let's assume by end of March, we get all the appointed dates, then how much mobilization we can expect to draw?
We are eligible to get the mobilization of about, say, in early budget of INR 95 crores. And in both the HAM projects, it's about INR 120 crores. And in DV balance is about, say, INR 48 crores. So those, it should be somewhere -- depending upon the working capital limits, our entitlement, our eligibility would come in at about more than INR 270 crore.
Okay. Okay. And sir, lastly, sir, you said for the fourth HAM, the equity required is INR 55 crore. But if I look at the -- for 3 projects, sir, normal -- our equity is relatively on the higher side closer to 14% kind of a -- 13.5%, 14% of EPC, if I just look at in that angle. So don't you think the equity required would be in the range of INR 70 crore to INR 75 crore versus the INR 55 crore you are saying?
Equity requirements for this...
The last HAM project that we received, the Rewari Bypass.
Rewari Bypass. [indiscernible] INR 65 crores projects. And not the INR 55 crores, it's INR 65 crores.
Sorry, sir. I didn't get.
It's 6-5, INR 65 crores, which will be required for...
INR 65 crores, INR 65 crores, okay. Okay. Okay. That's it from my side.
Next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
So what is the total promoter debt outstanding right now? And how are we accounting the interest on that?
No, we are not charging any interest. It's a secured loan without the interest. It's INR 53 crores at the end of this quarter.
Is there a possibility that in coming few quarters, you may have to start doing that book accounting of the interest, and there could be some reversals?
No, no. I think, rather, we would not going ahead with charging of interest. It would be either whenever the cash flow permits us, we would be taking that money out.
Okay. But why would you give interest-free loan to the company?
For no reason.
Okay. Okay. Sir, just on this gross block sales of, say, INR 18-odd crores which you mentioned, so how much would be the gains you would have recognized in the P&L?
I think, it is not very significant. It might be -- I'm not having a clear idea, but not very significant. It might be some INR 20 lakh to INR 30 lakh, not more than that.
Okay. Just lastly, on the tax part. So sir, you're saying by this year-end, we have -- will come -- the effective tax rate will be 25% only, 25.17%, right?
Yes.
So there won't be a much of tax provisioning in the last quarter because first 9 months, we have like 28% already?
Yes. Correct.
We take the next question from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking.
Yes. My question got answered.
Next question is from the line of Rachit Kamath from Anand Rathi.
Sir, actually, I just wanted to know, there was INR 60 crores that were seen, there was a change in scope in this quarter. So just wanted to understand which project did we have this change in scope?
Sorry?
It would seem that there is a INR 59 crores change in scope. Sir, there was this INR 59 crores [ difference that was there ] in the order backlog when you calculated it.
And the order backlog. It's a change in scope basically.
Yes, it would seem it was a change in scope. So just wanted to know if we had any change in scope work.
Yes, I'm not getting you.
Change of scope. [indiscernible].
So you're what talking -- you are talking of which project?
No, sir. I'm asking which project.
[Foreign Language].
I'm not getting. The INR 59 crore, you're talking, INR 59 crores, is it? In receivables?
Okay. So basically, sir, our opening backlog last quarter was around INR 5,700 crores. And in this quarter, we had around, including the alarm, we had somewhere around INR 1,010 crores, INR 1,011 crores kind of an inflow, right?And we executed somewhere around INR 474 crores? Hello?
Your voice is not audible. Can you please speak clear.
Sir, I'll do one thing. I'll get back to you off-line somewhere else. I'll talk with your IR. My second question actually pertains to -- you were -- when you had come for the site visit, we've spoken that you're looking at some other power projects and railway projects in Maharashtra.
So we are looking ahead for railway projects in Maharashtra. You're quite right. We would be bidding in the month of February.
Okay. So that's also there included in that INR 15,000 crores -- INR 4,000 crores of bids that are opening up in this February quarter, February month?
No. What he was talking about early INR 15,000 crores, new bids was completely on the road projects. And what you're asking about the power and the railway projects new, it will be completely out of that. So that is not included in terms from the bidding point of view.
Okay. Sir, FY '21, what will be inflow guidance?
FY '20 inflow?
'21 inflow, what are we looking at?
Again, INR 4,000 crores plus.
INR 4,000 crores plus. Okay. That was the last one.
Okay, thank you.
We take the next question from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital.
On just this one, railway projects that you mentioned recently, which projects are coming up for bidding in railways? And what you would be looking at doing?
See, there are 2 projects in the state of Maharashtra in the Nanded district, and these are all new line to be laid, where the earth well formation and blanketing and bridges work is there. This is civil work basically. Now it's almost INR 500 crore, INR 600 crore each.
INR 500 crore. And this would be awarded by?
RVNL.
RVNL. Okay. Okay. Okay. INR 500 crores, INR 600 crores each?
Yes.
Okay. Okay, sure. Got it. And sir, what would be the EPC value of this Rewari Bypass project?
Rewari Bypass, somewhere INR 400 crores.
INR 400 crores?
Yes.
We take the next question from the line of Jitendra Rushi from Bank of Baroda.
Yes, sir. Just wanted to check on the fund limit and nonfund limit. Last time, you shared you're looking for increasing the fund limit and nonfund limit. Can you just highlight on the same, sir?
No, we have almost increased INR 110 crores of nonfund base limit during this quarter. And by the year-end, we are looking at some addition of more than INR 150 crore to it.
Sir, what is the...
So total by end of this financial year, it would be -- nonfunded would be somewhere INR 900 crores plus/minus INR 10 crores, INR 15 crores and funded would be INR 125 crores.
Okay. So you mean to say that INR 900 crores plus INR 150 crores and INR 125 crores would be the fund limit, if I'm right?
Yes. So altogether, they would be coming in at about, say, INR 1,050 crores.
And sir, as of now, what is the limit? It's INR 900 crores, right, sir?
As of now, the total limit is INR 900 crores, the funded and nonfunded.
Total limit is INR 900 crores. Okay. And what would be the breakup as of now between fund and nonfund?
It's INR 115 crores as funded and remaining is nonfund.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Harendra Singh for his closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone, for your participation in our Q3 9-month FY '20 earnings call. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with Pareto Capital Advisors or feel free to get in touch with us. We look forward to interacting with you in the next quarter. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. [ On behalf of H.G. Infra Engineering, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines. ]