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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to H.G. Infra Engineering Limited Q4 and FY '21 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishav Das from Pareto Capital. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Das.
Good morning, everyone. This is Rishav Das from Pareto Capital. We represent Investor Relations for H. G. Infra Engineering Limited. On behalf of H.G. Infra, I welcome you all to our Q4 and FY '21 earnings conference call. I have with me from the management, Mr. Harendra Singh, Chairman and Managing Director; and Mr. Rajeev Mishra, Chief Financial Officer. We will have brief opening remarks from the management, followed by the Q&A session. Please note that certain statements made during this call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results or [indiscernible] to differ materially from these statements. H.G. Infra will not be in any way responsible for any action taken based on such statements and undertakes no obligation to publicly update these forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances. I would now hand over the call to Harendraji for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I welcome you all to our earnings conference call for Q4 and FY '21. I hope all of you are -- and your families are keeping safe and healthy. I'm pleased to convey the exceptional performance of our team who has delivered with their committed will to achieve the highest ever recorded revenue in this quarter 4. Despite a challenging year for all of us, we have been able to maintain our momentum and strong efficiency, which has led to a complete rebound in execution post the tough initial quarters. Through our relentless focus, we managed to recover the deficit in the last 2 quarters and achieved our goal of surpassing last year's performance. We ended the year with INR 2,527 crores of a stand-alone revenue compared to INR 2,196 crores last year, a growth of 15%. Our focus continues to be on maintaining profitability and in line of that, EBITDA stood at INR 411 crores while EBITDA margin in FY '21 improved and stood at 16.2% as compared to 15.6% in FY '20. Our PAT for the year stood at INR 211 crores, up by 27% year-on-year. During the quarter 4 of FY '21, on a stand-alone basis, we reported revenues of INR 1,028 crores compared to INR 623 crores in Q4 FY '20, a growth of 65% year-on-year. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 167 crores compared to INR 101 crores in Q4 FY '20, a growth of 64% year-on-year. EBITDA margin remained stable at 16.2%. The profit after tax for Q4 FY '21 grew at a higher rate of 90% year-on-year as PAT stood at INR 98 crores, a margin of 9.5%. We started Q4 with our entire order book for execution that led to the strong performance. This year, we completed the MoRTH projects in Maharashtra. There has been a significant milestone achieved in many other projects. We have made a substantial progress in our first-hand projects of Rajiv chowk Gurgaon-Sohna. We have completed around 82% of the project. In the Narnual Bypass HAM project also we have made a considerable progress as we completed 65%. We have completed around 62% in our Rewari Ateli HAM project. The strong obligation on Delhi Vadodara Pkg-4, that is EPC project, also contributed to our performance, and we have completed close to 62%. In Hapur Morradabad IRB EPC project, we have completed close to 50% of the work. Our -- these 3 projects of Rajasthan, namely Banar-Bhopalgarh, Bhawi-Pipar and Jodhpur-Marwar are also in the final stage of completion, and we expect to move for PCOD in these projects very shortly within 3 months. Of the projects that we started in the end of quarter 3 and quarter 4, in D-V Package 8, we have received appointed date on 7th November 2020, and we have completed around 18%. In D-V Package 9, which we received appointed date on 18 December 2020, we have completed around 11%. Our Rewari Bypass HAM project, for which we received financial closure and appointed date on 15 Jan 2021, we have started with a good pace of execution and have completed around 20%. I'm happy to announce that during the year we have won 4 new orders for a total order inflow of INR 1,933 crores EPC value. We have received 2 HAM projects in Telangana. These includes construction of 4-lane access controlled new greenfield highway sections of among Khammam-Devarapalle Package 1 worth INR 590 crores and Package 2 worth INR 486 crores. Another HAM project we won is in Andhra Pradesh for INR 767 crores. Project is for development of 6-lane road under Raipur-Visakhapatnam Economic Corridor. We also won a very small NTPC order of Mancherial project for INR 90 crores. Taking above orders, our order book stands at INR 7,040 crores -- 7-0-4-0 crores as on 31 March 2020. Out of the total order book, 59% are EPC contract and 41% are HAM projects. We are now spread across 6 states. Breakup is as follows: 8% from Rajasthan, 28% from Telangana, 11% from Andhra Pradesh, 10% from Haryana, 10% from Uttar Pradesh and 3% from Maharashtra. Our efforts to strengthen our balance sheet continue to remain our focus. We have managed to further reduce the debt levels. Our total gross debt as on 31st March 2021 on a stand-alone basis stood at INR 289 crores. This includes working capital debt of INR 57 crores, term loans plus current maturity of INR 232 crores. We have paid off the balance unsecured loan amounts from promoters and a cash balance -- cash and bank balance on stand-alone level stood at INR 258 crores. Our consolidated debt stood at INR 771 crores, which includes project loans of INR 482 crores, cash and bank balance on consol level stood at INR 253 crores. Our working capital has seen good improvements. The total return, excluding retention, which stood at INR 644 crores in March '20, has come down to INR 544 crores in '21, effectively bringing down the debtor days from 91 days to 79 days, thereby improving our net working capital efficiency to 33 days. Our strong execution and profit margins that has helped generated steady cash flow for the company. As of March '21, our cash flow from operations stood at INR 527 crores. Coming to the outlook and the guidance. With the government push on infrastructure development, we see higher potential on infra spending and awarding activity. The last financial year has seen tremendous awarding activity by NHAI with 4,800 kilometers of road projects awarded during the year and with a strong pipeline for the year ahead. We continue to see good traction in road construction opportunities going forward. Additionally, we will continue to look at opportunities beyond road sectors in sectors like railways, water, metro and airports to diversify our order book. India's infrastructure plans in these sectors are well defined and there is a lot of project scope available. In this effort, we would further strengthen -- we have -- sorry, we have further strengthened our business development team with the induction of senior resources who have vast experience in these sectors. Our focus is to explore and tap into these new sector opportunities that will contribute to the top line of our business in the coming years. Talking of the opportunities into account, we aim in targeting order inflow of INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores in this financial year with 10% of the outstanding order book in -- for the new sectors. In terms of execution, we expect to continue the strong execution that we witnessed in Q4. Though there were minor challenges imposed by the second wave of COVID in terms of labor availability, Q1 of FY '22, we expect to return to normalcy soon. We aim to continue growing steadily and strategically with a growth of around 25% to 30% for the next year, driven by the better operational and financial excellence while maintaining strong margins, a target of INR 500 crores plus EBITDA. That is all from my side. I will now request the moderator to open the call for question and answer. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital Advisors.
Congratulations on a fantastic set of numbers. There are 2 questions from my side. Sir, we maintained EBITDA margin of 16% which was quite commendable. Do you think the EBITDA margin will be difficult to maintain because of heightened competition, especially in the -- by the end of the Q4 FY '21 in the NHAI bid. That's the first question. And second, sir, when do you expect to get the appointed date for the 3 road assets which you won in Q4 FY '21? And what is the progress on land acquisition on those assets?
Sure. Your first question remains that the 16% EBITDA margin with the aggressive intensity and competitiveness in the bidding that we have seen in Q3 and Q4 of FY '21, it's a bit challenging, but the only thing is that we, as always, remained focused on acquiring orders which, say, do have the good profit margins and the yield is the same as we believe in the overall -- period last 2, 3 years. So in maintaining that discipline, we always have been very cautious and selective in taking on projects. That has been visible so we could get a target of about INR 3,500 crores to INR 4,000 crores of new order, which was supposed to be added as a target in the last financial year, but that is almost INR 2,000 crores added. So that is just because we were not that aggressive and we believe with the opportunities -- in highway and, apart from that, other sectors also, we are having good opportunities which are available as the bidding pipeline is there. There is a strong pipeline that government has given the indication, NHAI officials have given the indication. So with that, we expect that we would be able to acquire new orders with that margin only. And your second question remains that appointed date -- expectations of appointed date with land acquisition status. In these 3 projects, we have already, say, established our land acquisition team along with the association and the coordination with NHAI and other officials. Right now, it is about 28% possession is there and about 56% of the projects there having 3A done, 3D is in advanced stage. But we expect it will take not less than -- I think as we have seen in the earlier projects as well not less than 8 to 9 months period. In January, or say February, [indiscernible], we would be receiving the appointed date.
The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital Markets.
Sir, first of all, congratulations to the entire team for a great set of numbers. Yes. Sir, first, it's good that you have revised and upgraded the revenue guidance on a higher base, that's a good thing. Just wanted a couple of things. First, when we are saying INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores order inflow, and it's a good that now we are diversifying into water, airport, railway, how much out of this INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores from the HAM? And how much do you expect that it would be coming in the first half or everything mostly in the third and fourth quarter would be coming? So that's the first thing. And the second one is on the recent 3 HAM, how much equity we are expecting to be invested? So it will be around 14% of the BPC that would be closer to my calculation is around INR 350 crores. So will the number would be same? And how are we going to invest in FY '22 and '23?
Yes, sure. So your first question remains so that with what exactly is the component of INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores new order book during the financial year. We expect that, say, overall HAM -- right now, we are having about 41% of the order book, which is remaining as a HAM projects are concerned. And out of that, the earlier 4 HAMs, which are under execution that are on the advanced stage, we believe that almost out of that all will be completed by the year-end because 3 are at a very advanced stage and also expect Rewari Bypass would be completed by the time if -- 90% would be completed by that time. So almost 14% of these order book -- this total entire book is HAM projects, all 4 HAM projects, and we expect that 13% or 14% would be consumed during the year -- executed during the year. And the second part remains what exactly should be the makeup of INR 5,000 crores to INR 7,000 crores. If we are expecting some INR 1,000 crores of orders from the new 4 -- 3, 4 sectors as primarily more focused on the railway and, of course, airport. So that is the one where we believe that at INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores order additions, we will be excess of INR 1,000. We would expect -- we are again expecting some INR 2,000 crores to INR 3,000 crores of new HAM projects which would give a fair that balance of the EPC to HAM in this entire portfolio, which we believe that within the year we see INR 3,200 crores, that would be a balance of EPC on HAM gives the quite a reasonable percentage. As far as -- we said that these 2 or 3 -- sorry, 3 new orders, the equity requirement remains definitely, you are right, it is coming about INR 355 crores. It's very indicative basically. That's coming about INR 355 crores. And the total liquidity requirement for the earlier 4 HAM projects during the current year as a commitment, it would be coming at about INR 87 crores. And out of this, in FY '23, INR 21 crores would be only which would be required for the only 4 HAM projects. And for all 3 new projects, we expect that with the appointed date and everything in place in Q4 that we believe that INR 100-crore-odd equity would be required for this current financial year as we project some INR 175 crores in the FY '23, so next year, and some INR 80 crore balance in FY '24.
Okay. So when we are saying our business we couldn't [indiscernible] So in terms of monetization we started by what's the...
Hello? Sir, your voice is breaking. Can you come in a better reception area, please?
Is it fine now?
A little better.
Yes. So sir, I was saying that in terms of the monetization, is there any plan that we can expect by end of this year, we can see some monetization because both combining to put together 7 HAM projects now we will be having INR 750-odd crores equity invested. And when we are targeting another INR 2,000 crores to INR 3,000 crores, so another INR 350 more crores to be invested, so what's the way to look at in terms of the monetization?
Yes, sure. Definitely, it's on the cards and it's on the higher priority. We are not going to pay and continue with any asset for a long period, and that process has already been initiated. And now that is an area where there already -- it has been approached to the investors and we are having, say, 1 or 2 calls done. We expect during the financial year once we would be in a position that in Q2 and Q3 we will be completing both the projects. All 3 since -- all the projects -- these projects will definitely be monetized during this financial year as we expect and as soon as we complete Rewari Package 4 because we are in discussion with all the 4 packages, all the 4 projects of HAM, which are in execution. So that is on the highest card that within the financial year to monetize at least 3 and then as soon as we complete any of the further HAM projects we would be in that phase only.
Okay. And lastly, sir, in terms of now how much are we looking at the CapEx for this year? And how do we perceive the debt levels by end of this year? And in terms of the working capital, will it remain at the current level or can we see some improvement further in the working capital?
See, the working capital which is about -- at about 30 -- net of working capital is at about 33 days, that is a significant improvement that we have seen. And we could foresee a bit of improvement, but not that significant because it's a fairly reasonable level. And we are talking of that what exactly would be the -- your first question remains as net...
CapEx and debt level.
For this particular year, we have planned for addition of INR 75 crores to INR 80 crores of new equipment and of course, about INR 35 crores to INR 40 crores of -- as a [indiscernible] would be disposed off because that is a process which we have followed that any equipment with an age of about 5 to 7 or 10 years with [indiscernible] classification of those equipments, we normally dispose them off. Like last year, we added -- the equipment which were added about INR 90 crores, but we disposed 36 -- INR 97 crores was the addition and INR 36 crores was disposed. So net addition remains INR 61 crores is the gross [indiscernible] in the CapEx last year. So this year, again the loan liabilities which are at current maturity which would be paid INR 62 crores. So the total debt would be coming at about this range only INR 270 crores to INR 300 crores with the incremental working capital [indiscernible] requirement.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
Congratulations on an exceptional set of numbers and all-round improvement in growth and cash flows. I have first question on, sir, if I see your net working capital and according to my calculation, reduced from 104 days to 71 days in FY '21. And if I take it on a base of 4Q revenue comes down to 44 days. So I just wanted to understand, during this quarter, I mean, what were the significant items which has moved it? So obviously, there were pain points like Rajasthan and one of your clients who was like delaying payments. So has that been sorted out? What will be the balance receivables there if you can touch upon that? And also, on the current debtors, if you can give a breakup of third-party debtors and SPV debtors? That was my first question.
Sure. See the debtor movement which we have seen that in the current year the debtor, which has been reduced by INR 190 crores effectively was INR 150 crores, including if we see INR 35 crores increment in the security deposit retention money. So that is a reduction. As of now, it's INR 455 crores -- it's INR 455 crores, earlier it was INR 643 crores. So the breakup of this particular debtor remains. But if you are talking of Rajasthan project, where the significant improvement has been there, we have seen almost entire amount which was -- which we did -- which was payable last year and which we did this year. We almost paid -- it's just of INR 28 crore as a debtor and INR 25 crore as unbilled, say, revenue, which is balance INR 53 crores. And we believe that in this quarter 1 or quarter -- maximum by quarter 2 we'll be paid off -- we would be receiving this particular amount because we're having the budget submitted now. SPV remains the debtor of INR 79 crores, all 4 SPV, that is INR 79 crores as of Q4 balance. On NHAI, all 4 projects -- 3 projects, basically, these are all D-V projects, that is INR 82 crores; Adani that is a Telangana project, which INR 67 crores; and IRB stood at INR 138 crores, that is INR 138 crores as a debtor, whereas some INR 20 crores is the unbilled part. And Maharashtra and other projects remains -- Maharashtra is INR 30 crores. Some CES approval are pending in Maharashtra project still. So this is INR 35 crores as an unbilled portion. So this is all as a debtor and unbilled part of it.
Okay. Second question was, sir, on the order book, what is the total eligibility of taking the mobilization advance? And how much is as of now -- as of March end is in the balance sheet -- outstanding there in the balance sheet?
So as far as mobilization advance, we are having INR 264 crores of mobilization advance. So some, say, material advance and other secured advances all there. So that is project advance basically. It's coming at INR 323 crores as a total advance. As earlier in the March '20 it was INR 216 crores. See, during the entire year of execution, we expect that almost some INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores would be left out as would not be recovered that range some INR 75 crores, remaining all will be recovered during the course of execution in this financial year.
And having taken all the advances do you think the...
No, no, no. We still have the balance of about INR 100 crores, which is hope available, which we can apply for the mobilization advance. In the current execution, we have the projects which we are talking of Delhi-Vadodara Package 8 and 9 is still which we can take.
And lastly, sir, any significant advance came in fourth quarter? So what was the advances that you availed in fourth quarter of financial year '20?
Fourth quarter, we received INR 62 crores as an advance. It was in Package 9, which we received appointed date in December 2020.
Okay. Once again, congratulations on a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking Limited.
Sir, just one thing that I wanted to check is that you did say that we have added senior persons to our execution team to really get into newer areas and all. If you can just talk a little bit more about that. What is the details of the senior persons added.
Definitely in the last year 2021, we tried and we bid for many of the railway projects and a few of the water supply, just 1 or 2. But majorly, it is basically an R&D required and at least back-office support is very much required for taking on opportunities in other sectors if we are talking of 3, 4 sectors we have. And they are the big -- say government always given the indication that if you are talking about JJM in water sector, then the -- if you are talking of this railway projects, if you are having 2030 draft that a high speed network being developed. And there are a few more opportunities coming on in a metro where the Tier 2 cities [indiscernible]. So we really want that good team to be there, but we have added 5 good resources, and they are all having the good experience as far as doing this business -- business development and R&D sort of. So this is all about that we have integrated the teams. We have strengthened the team of the business development by adding those people. And we believe that in this current year we would be more focused taking on opportunities in these sectors.
Got it. Sir I'm assuming these 5 resources we are talking about is on the technical side, more on the project execution?
Obviously, technical.
Got it. Sir, also, just wanted to check on Gulabpura-Chittorgarh, what is the remaining order book there? What has been the execution in Q4?
It's almost done, just a INR 20 crore of unbilled revenue which I told that with IRB, it is there, that the finance bill and another bills -- approvals are there. But ultimately, it is the entirely completed. And it has been completed just we are showing the balance -- order balance in Bhilwara that project. So just because of the reason because that project was having that INR 600 crores something project size but concluded at about INR 500 crores. So there is a saving of about INR 141 crores as far as IRB is concerned.
Sir, as far as HG is concerned, our scope -- remaining scope is there, we have some unbilled left.
Sorry?
Sir, as far as HG is concerned, there is no order book remaining…
Yes, yes. Because we are -- there was some negative scope and a few could not be executed because of land acquisition. So that is -- our scope is now completed.
Got it. And lastly, in Maharashtra MoRTH, as we have not seen -- I mean we have seen a relatively slower progress. And also in Adani project, we have seen relatively slower progress as compared to the other projects. So any particular issues there?
I think for Adani project, there is not a major issue as such because there are 4 railway ROBs to be constructed. Their approval they took a bit of a time. But we executed some INR 110 crores in Q4 in Adani project. And apart from Maharashtra in the entire year, it was INR 69 crores being executed in FY '20-'21 and in Q4 it was INR 20 crores. Now the balance for the quarter which is left out is mainly in the deferred portion, we are saying -- adding a few of the projects which is the land acquisition status. There's some INR 200 crore order project, say, order left out. And that will be very gradually and very, say, it would be executed.
Right. Sir, just coming back to the Adani project, there you think FY '22, you will see a good progress in execution or it is likely to remain a little sluggish?
No, I think we believe that almost 85%, 90% would be completed by March.
Next question is from the line of Viral Shah from Prabhudas Lilladher.
Yes, congratulations on a great set of numbers and hope the entire H. G. family is safe and fine. Sir, 2 questions from my end. What is the bid pipeline in terms of road looking like and other verticals when you talk about? So where are we in terms of bidding for achieving this INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores of our initial guidance?
See, right now, whatever orders which were already were supposed to be awarded by NHAI, so definitely, they are always, say, almost in quarter 1, they were all supposed to be awarded. There's almost INR 45,000 crores to INR 50,000 crores of orders with NHAI as left out stock of last year. And the NHAI again given the indication that they believe and they expect that some 4,500 or 4,800 kilometers to be awarded in this year as well. And again, in next year, they are targeting [indiscernible] new projects which are at the DPR stage, they would be targeted. And then apart from highway, I think it's not that will be Q3 and Q4 would be the -- during this year when the awarding would be done. I think within Q2 we expect -- this would have been done in Q1 had lockdown and this COVID second wave would have not affected. And then Q3 and Q4, but again, the project, as we have seen in NHAI, these are all stages which we have seen from 2015 almost when Bharatmala 1 and 2 were declared and thereupon some DPR land acquisition that it took almost 2 years -- 2, 3 years before -- prior to awarding. That is, again, happening in this railway, and we have seen in even water supply sector in Rajasthan even almost INR 20,000-odd crores worth of projects which are at the DPR stage, they would be all awarded during this and next financial year. So, with that, a lot of good opportunities would be there, but definitely, they will be coming as a bidding -- at the bidding stage would be coming in gradually and a phased manner.
Fair enough, sir. Sir secondly, we have been consistently reporting consolidated EBITDA margin of around 18% and a standalone of around 16%. Sir, do we expect this margin to continue, that is first? And is there any one-off during the quarter for the margin?
See, margin to continue, definitely with that, we have already done that prior -- if any bidding to be done, that margin should be impacted at that level. And again, we are having all verticals, all departments having the accountability and responsibility to just optimize all the budgeted number if we have estimated at the prebidding stage the [indiscernible] is the productivity in all the components. But with that only we have seen that if you have planned to bid any project with a margin of about, say, 14%, 15%, if we end up with 17%, 18%. So that is whole intent behind that -- our people are working behind it and just looking at, say, opportunity where the operational efficiency can be there. So this is the [ worst ] part where the margins -- we look forward it would be all intact and there is a fair chance that it's incrementum is not that big number, but that is -- definitely there is a fair chance to increment. And what is your second question, I could not remember.
Is there any one-off in the margin per se for the quarter in terms of [indiscernible]
No, no provisioning has been done in this quarter.
No. And lastly, sir, the O&M income of around INR 150 crores to INR 200 crores which we were booking, that has been completed or that has gone [indiscernible]
No, no, no. It's still with running project and also completed project. The completed project is about INR 100 crores of revenue, which is expected in the next 3 years. And again, in total entire period of 5 years that is coming at about INR 125-odd crores.
And this is per year, right, or it is over a period?
No, no. It's spread. Basically, it's spreaded in years. This year, we are looking at about, say, INR 30 crores O&M revenue, next year it would be INR 35 crores.
The next question is from the line of Rita Tahilramani from Invesco Mutual Fund.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, firstly, on -- what is the 3G land acquisition status for the new projects?
3G?
3G, yes.
No, not yet. I think the possession of 3G is not done, but at the 3D stage even the people have offered or, say, we have taken the possession of about 23%, 24% of the land where the survey activity is going on.
23%, 24% on 3D?
Yes. But at the 3D stage only because the award at 3G means compensation been given. But that compensation is not yet given, but at the 3D stage we were because -- in anticipation because the land is going to be taken in any case by NHAI. So usually, it happens with all the field owners or the owners. They usually offer their land whatever is the stage right now because we are not going to crop right now in this cropping season -- this Kharif season.
And sir, second question is how much is the land owner -- the labor availability currently?
See, right now, it's depending upon the project to project. With the NCR, say, if you are talking about Gurgaon-Sohna, definitely about 50% affected. But on an overall average, it is about 70% to 75% availability of labor across all the projects.
And sir, despite a small -- certain amount of challenges in terms of labor availability, are you confident on the 25% to 30% revenue growth guidance?
See, it all is -- I think it's a temporary phase and people who are going -- who have gone back at Holi, they have not turned back, and that is the one reason. Now again, the second part is because they have learned to live within these conditions. So they are coming back. It's not that they are just reluctant going back to work. They are coming -- see, people left but they are coming as well. That, again, we are looking at the bit of about 10%, 15%, which we were expecting in Q1. But we do not see as entire INR 5,000 crores of orders, they are under execution, more than INR 5,000 crores. So we do not expect much of the turbulence in the coming phases in the Q2 and Q3, Q4. And as we have seen last year as well Q3 and Q4 yielded, almost 16 -- INR 1,700 crores [indiscernible]. INR 1,700 crores, INR 1,800 crores means majority of the execution has been done in 6 months only.
Sir, lastly, what would be your debt guidance for FY '22?
We have seen that the debt is -- normally there is not with term debt. It's not only a working capital and debtor. So we expect that the new CapEx addition, which we, I would say, some INR 64 crores of commitment as a term debt to be repaid during this financial year. So that is a range of INR 270 crores, INR 280 crores or INR 300 crores, that is a number. So that would be the reasonable range which will be continued.
The next question is from the line of [ Dhruv ] from Monarch AIF.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Yes. Sir, my question is, as we are seeing this commodity impact as well as global, so from our sector perspective, how do you see this inflation impacting? Are margins on a HAM versus EPC project basis?
No. I think in both the models, if you're talking of HAM and EPC, this price escalation, it is contractual. We are covered with the negative or positive inflation. So that is how we have covered, but we have seen the difference between what -- we are compared internally, the difference between till October what exactly was the price variation versus the hit on the commodities to October to March. But we have not seen a significant big number change. It's only 0.1% of 0.2%, and that is one of a big number. And it's a temporary phase basically. Even if it continues, so that is not going to impact margins significantly.
Okay. So that is good to hear. And sir -- just to confirm, you said that INR 355 crores will be our equity requirement for the HAM, right?
For the upcoming 3 HAMs, yes.
For the upcoming 3 HAMs?
Yes. For the running 3 HAMs or already we are running with 4 HAMs about INR 107 crores which is left out which is out of that INR 87 crores planned during the current year, say FY '21-'22 and remaining, say, INR 20 crores would be from a Rewari Bypass it would be next year.
Okay. And this INR 355 crores will majorly for the new projects, that will come majorly in FY '23, not that much in FY [indiscernible]
Yes. We have taken on record that if any case, by, say, January or February we received the appointed date and entire in our land acquisition. So by that time, because we were total normal course of about 6 to 8 months, which we believe to take the possession, establish ourselves, design the project and financial closure is to be done. So by the time, if we expect INR 100-odd crores, we have looked that say INR 100-odd crores would be the most optimistic requirement if we take on the appointed date in January or February.
Okay. So this INR 100 crores will be for the new projects?
Correct.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, sir. And do you see any impact of your raw material or any manpower issues that could impact your execution in the first quarter of FY '22?
No, I have already just explained that it's not a big dip in the -- we expect that a big dip in the execution. But we have seen that in quarter 1 would be a bit impacted earlier at a range that, I think it would be 10%, 15% drop in quarter 1. That would be -- we can make up very easily in Q3 and Q4, subsequently.
The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.
Congratulations on a very good set of numbers. Sir, most of my questions have already been answered. Just 2 from my side. So one was essentially, when I look at the order inflows for the year, all these 4 orders that you've added are in South, Telangana and Andhra, which are -- I mean when I look at our historical track record, I think you are strong holder of Central India and Northern India. So what made us go to -- beat this geography? I mean is it that I mean competitive intensity is on the higher side in North and Central, which is why you were required to go to South? And to continue to that, I think given the fact that we have only 1 project in South as of now, I mean Adani project, and the equipment bank would be keeping in mind only on 1 project as of now, so would you be required then to spend money to be able to scale up execution at these 3 new hybrids?
See, as far as concentrating ourselves into new orders in Telangana or Andhra in South, it's not that. During the entire year, I think in Q3, Q4, we did it for almost 45 -- almost INR 55,000 crores of project pan India. Earlier, we were all confined to 7-odd states where the bidding was done or we really bid. But now we have bidded in 15-odd state. So the 15-odd state means that if we are having the opportunity elsewhere and we have seen that Telangana being while working with staff as with Adani project, we have seen that this is a good state to work with as far as raw material, law and order and many things are concerned. So then we -- then Andhra and Telangana almost same demography, geographical condition altogether as far as -- so that is the call taken on the basis of one wants the experience first. So in Maharashtra, definitely in Central India, we have worked in 2013, '14 in that state and then the Vidarbha zone only. So that was the reason we took many orders in the later part. So it's not that, it's is just an event that happened means happened. It was very strategically planned and we focused on the margin. Though we have bidded in entire India of 15-odd states and the INR 50,000-odd crores that we could win over INR 2,500 crores orders. So it means that entire execution where the aggression was there we could not build a project there.
Got it. Sure. Sir, possible to share what was our success ratio in Telangana and Andhra versus North and Central India in terms of the number of projects that you've been involved?
No, I think, in Telangana, Andhra and -- because we have not bidded in Tamil Nadu, Kerala, but we have seen that we have bidded for almost INR 25,000 crores like Bangalore, Chennai was the major one which we bidded and other projects as well and biddings were there, but we could win only 10% in that INR 25,000 crores to INR 2,500 crores.
Sure. So does it mean, I mean, we bid for almost around INR 30,000 crores of orders in some of these other states and we couldn't get even a single project there? So does it mean the competitive intensity is on a higher side in Central and Northern India?
No, I think it's not that competitive intensity. It's only a case to case because you have seen that [indiscernible] taking on 5-odd projects and this is all Telangana and Andhra as well. So it doesn't matter. Refer to that, your specific question, this is just because of Southern India and North India mode of competition.
Okay, sure. And sir, Rajasthan project, I think you were supposed to finish that project, I mean, the balance work which was wherein, I mean, we already had ROW in place was supposed to be get done with [indiscernible]
No, no, no. Definitely, it is almost INR 100 crores apart from whatever we have done. We are going to receive some INR 60 crores -- or INR 55-odd crores, which we are already executed in the form of debtor and unbilled in the quarter 1 and quarter 2. Some INR 100 crores work is left out as a deferred portion and which we've already started. Few of the land is already awarded -- provided to us. That we believe within the next 15 months it will be completed.
[Foreign Language] proportion is still not available in terms of ROW, I mean, out of the...
Now entire portion, INR 105 crores that is the left out they have provided. And within next 12 -- because the major part is the ROB, 2 ROBs are there. So that will take at least 15 months from now.
Sure. Just one last, if I may. If you could share your receivable numbers for -- due from Tata and GVK, please?
GVK definitely entire, say, INR 18.3-some crores including retention, and that is all provided. That is all provided last year only. And in Tata, it is an unbilled portion of INR 27 crores. That is just because of a few GST and as we have completed this project on 13th of February this year only, we have received the completion. So now the things would be taken up as far as the entire POS and the GST. So we expect in quarter 2 we will be receiving this particular amount.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital Limited.
Congratulations on extremely good numbers. Sir, just a few questions on the bookkeeping side first. Sir, you said mobilization outstanding is around INR 265 crores as on March, right sir?
Mobilization advance, correct.
Yes. And sir, and another...
This is to mobilization advance and some client advance like we have taken some material advances, secured advance, that is, say, all together coming at INR 323 crores.
So this -- but you said INR 323 crores is -- out of it only INR 100 crores you have not taken and you have taken INR 223 crores, right sir?
No, no, no. I'm talking of as on -- in the books at 31st March 2021, it is INR 323 crores, not only this is the mobilization advance, INR 264 crores is the mobilization advance, okay, and the remaining part is some INR 60 crores is a part of the client say this is a secured advance or material advance.
Right. So any new mobilization advance expected now except for the 3 HAM projects?
See, we do -- we are having the opportunity to take INR 100-odd crores. But normally, we feel like in the month of, say, quarter 2, we believe that if we are at the stage we can add. Otherwise, all 3 HAM projects will be added.
And sir, on the retention and unbilled revenue, what is the number, sir?
The retention stood at INR 215 crores, which earlier was about INR 180 crores. That is a big number where we believe that with SPV retention as we complete the entire project that would be released some INR 45 crores in that. And Tata project we have completed, that is the one where we would be expecting. And once with D-V 4 project, Delhi-Vadodara Package 4, our labor retention is there. So once we complete these projects, then we will be receiving the retention at a significant -- we expect that it would be coming at INR 170 crores or INR 175 crores or INR 170 crores, INR 180 crores at the end of next year. And what you are talking about that second part is unbilled. Unbilled definitely coming about INR 255 crores as of now, all together. But then we expect that all the projects, which we have already completed like if you are talking of the Tata project, IRB and Maharashtra project [indiscernible] projects definitely. All running projects, we may have that unbilled, but remaining some INR 100 crores is expected to be received.
Sir, any arbitration on ongoing claims right now?
No, only just INR 11 crores of claim is there where arbitration is going on. That is with Agra Development Authority with the project which completed in 2016 though we have been awarded…
Which authority you said?
Agra Development Authority.
Agra. Okay. This is for road projects, sir?
That was the road project which we completed in 2016 and already awarded certain part of it, INR 7 crore has been awarded by them. But we are, again, proceeded in the INR 11 crores total infra claim that we are...
So you are yet to receive the claim of INR 11 crores.
Yes, yes, yes.
And sir, on the outstanding bid pipeline. So can you just throw some light on the outstanding bids as on date, sir?
I have just already spoken about it because in NHAI which were earlier supposed to be awarded in financial year '21 March, so they all have now...
I'm talking about what is the outstanding bid right now? Any projects you've bidded for and you're expecting any...
No, that is -- I think just the INR 8,000 crores of bids we have already bidded where the results are yet awaited.
These are NHAI projects?
These are NHAI projects and 2 railway projects.
And 2 railway project is how much, sir?
It's all mix, I think, INR 350-odd crores, it's coming at about INR 700 crores.
Okay. So INR 8,000 crores is NHAI and INR 700 crores is the railway. And sir, the NHAI mix of HAM and EPC or it's all HAM, sir? And state while if you can...
it's a mix of EPC. It's only 3 HAM and 5 EPC.
And which state, sir?
Himachal and UP and, I think, 1 or 2 -- I could not remember right now, Punjab, correct, 1 or 2 in Punjab.
Sir, you said GVK INR 18.3 crores, you have already written off, right sir?
That has been provided here.
Provided. Okay. And sir, on the execution front, so you've given a guidance of 25% to 30%. But the main execution will -- we are expecting to come from the HAM projects and the value-add projects. Any other [indiscernible]
No, I think -- it is all -- mix of all the projects we have seen in quarter 4, with the total contribution from all the projects, say, adding -- because 35% from HAM, 35%, 30% from D-V projects and Adani again, INR 110 crores and even IRB INR 190 crores. So that is the...
Hapur-Morradabad, when can you expect it to complete because we have done good work in Q4.
This financial year, it all will be completed. It's about INR 570 crores which is be left out. This entire would be completed. So we will be seeing a lot of -- say all the projects would be contributing to the execution in this financial year. It's not only EPC or SPV.
So this year order inflow is a key for our executions for the next couple of years?
Yes, of course. I think that is all -- regarding talking of the GVK which has been provided, but we have received some INR 7.5 crores last year, and we expect this entire amount would be received during the current year that they have already committed.
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Rushi. I will request you to come back in the question queue.The next question is from the line of Alok Deora from Yes Securities.
Congratulations on great numbers. Sir, just coming back to the previous question about the order inflow. So sir, you have guided for around INR 5,000 crores of order inflow. But even last year, if we see NHAI actually awarded around 4,800 kilometers and we managed to win order inflow of nearly INR 2,000 crores. So what gives us this confidence? Is there any downside risk to this number? Because you're talking about a similar NHAI awarding to happen in FY '22 as well. So if you could just elaborate on that.
No. I don't see anything, as already spoken earlier, that without compromising on the margins, if we during the entire year if we have bidded because the number of bids will be more we would be going across more states or like 15-odd states we are bidding -- we have been bidding. So as far as opportunity is concerned, NHAI is having definitely a strong bidding pipeline of about 4,500 kilometers this year as well. With that, most of the bids or aggression was a bit high last year whereabout you will see different unknown faces -- about 50% to 60% were the quite unknown faces.So there the NHAI -- they are people, they are also having the concern and they are also looking at the big challenge how the odd will be taken off. Then again, you do not see every time they would be coming on and just falling the -- maintaining that particular discipline. So with that, we are expecting that this year would be a decent year as far as competitive and aggression is concerned. With that, we are not targeting a very big number. The INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores means INR 5,000 crores from NHAI or highway activity, say, INR 1,000 crores from other sectors. So that is not a very big number with the upcoming opportunities.
Sure. No, I was just wondering because NHAI, what we understand is the similar number will be awarded or perhaps slightly lower, then we are expecting a significant jump. And competitive intensity what we understand is would be there for a while till the order books are full and some of the...
That is our sense. I have already given my sense. That definitely 50-odd percent of the project to mostly have be awarded to those faces -- those companies which are not having that strong background as far as execution and financial capabilities. So the NHAI is also having that, say, cause and concerns. We do not see that big competition this year.
The next question is from the line of [ Dipen Shah ], an individual investor.
Congrats for a very good set of numbers. Sir, most of the questions have been answered. Just a couple of questions regarding financials. Firstly, out of the guidance which you've given about INR 3,200 crores or INR 3,000-odd crores, what is the amount of revenues which you expect from the existing INR 5,000 crores of projects which are going on? And how much should be from the new orders which are yet to start?
We are not taking any assumptions for the new orders which are yet to start. We have already considered whatever INR 3,200 crores to -- INR 3,300 crores -- INR 3,200 crores number which would be executed in this INR 5,000 crores already under execution.
Okay. That's great. And in the opening remarks, did I hear you correctly saying that the EBITDA for the current year should be INR 500-odd crores?
Yes.
Sir, we have already done INR 470-odd crores in the current year. So...
You're wrong. I think it's INR 411 crores in this current year.
Okay. Okay. Maybe then I am mistaken.
Okay.
Right, sir. So INR 100 crores of EBITDA on revenue of whatever INR 3,200 crores, that's the guidance?
Correct.
The next question is from the line of [ S. K. Shetty ], an individual investor.
Sir, my question is related to the cash flow segment. Sir, do you think we can see an improvement in cash flow from operations in the coming years?
Yes, of course. I think that I have given indications with the unbilled portion of about INR 100 crores, which we expect, that would be realized in all these completed projects in this year. With that, I think there would be incremental operational cash flow will be better.
The next question is from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital Plc.
Congratulations, sir, on a very good performance. Sir, on the order inflow side, apart from the NHAI, railways, metro, airport projects that you've highlighted, would you also be exploring subcontracting work from some of our existing clients like IRB, Adani who've recently got sort of new road projects?
Yes, of course. See basically, it's not that we are ruling it out, but the only thing is that what exactly is this. We have executed some 25% in Adani project. And we expect that by this March end, it would be 85% to 90%. And the project which they have won this project in the vicinity, they are also offering us. And with that, with the exposure limited to that extent by, say, by September, October or November once they are going to be commenced by the time if we execute 60% into it, so it means that when limited exposure would be there, not big exposure on those 2 clients.
Okay. And margins will remain same, even in subcontracting?
Yes yes. That is a prime way to look into this because they are all -- both of them are having the HAM projects. And we believe that they are looking at their internal budget they will be looking at, we would be taking on call with the impact margin.
Got it. Also, sir, you already mentioned the equity requirement number, but if you could help me with project-wise total requirement invested as on FY '21 end and then balance in '22 and '23.
So you're talking about the total entire equity being deployed project wise?
Yes, right.
I think you can just write it out.
Yes. Sure, no problem.
The Gurgaon-Sohna which was the first HAM, only INR 7.3 crores is left out. Total requirement remains INR 72.9 crores and rest all has been done. Just INR 7.3 crores would be done within this year. In Rewari-Ateli, that is a HAM 2, that we have already, say, INR 53.2 crores has been done. And in this year, INR 23.3 crores is left out. Total requirement is INR 76.5 crores. And Narnaul-Ateli, that is on INR 101.1 crores already done, INR 37 crores is left out, which will be done during the year. So this is INR 138.1 crores. In Rewari Bypass, it is INR 41.4 crores already done and just INR 41 crores left out, which would be -- we are looking at some INR 20 crores in this year and INR 21 crores in the year '23 -- FY '23. So this is a total of -- breakup of about INR 87 crores required in this financial year out of the 4 HAMs and '21, which would be for the next year out of the fourth HAM.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
Harendraji, just a question on PQs. Sir, if you can give us [indiscernible] segment wise which you are targeting if you can please provide some insight on that.
The other sectors which we are looking at as a new orders?
Yes, yes.
So definitely, as we explained, this JJM and water supply the government which they are targeting by 2025, earlier it was 2024, that they would be providing the potable water to every household tap water is there. So there's a lot of opportunities are there, whereas in Rajasthan we have seen that only INR 8,000 crores being awarded last year and we are looking -- we are going ahead with some alliance with a strong player. That, again, we would be executing on a back-to-back basis. So this is the target which we are looking in the water supply as well as in MP and this state we are again looking into small possibilities. And apart from this if you are -- this is a high-speed network being planned, almost as the Expressway being planned in Bharatmala now this -- in railways they have planned the high-speed network also doubling of certain and electrification. But we have seen that we are not looking into electrification and transmission. But we are looking into those opportunities where the civil structure or civil construction is almost 70% to 80% like the highway in railway sector. And going ahead with the completion of -- on completion of this Gurgoan project, we would be having the qualification for doing this elevated portion. That is basic qualification required in metro or in any of those projects where high-speed network being planned, which we are talking of Ahmedabad to Mumbai where the elevated portion is really significant, where L&T won 3 projects. So these are few opportunities in sectors which we have seen that we will be having fair chances to pre-qualify.
And just one last on the [indiscernible] FY' 22, '23 -- '22, '23, '24 overall.
For '23, '24, what you're looking at?
'22, '23, '24 what will be total equity investment in HAM, overall, not project-wise, overall HAM?
See overall -- see in the existing HAM and, say, forthcoming, if you look forward, that INR 100 crores we have planned this year for this HAM, so it is coming at about INR 187 crores. So INR 187 crores is the tentative investment in the new 3 HAMs as well as existing one. If you take on any new 2, 3 HAMs, which already, say, INR 2,500 crores or 5 and, again, the same requirement of INR 355 crores would be there. We would look into that number and the left-out number of about, say, INR 255 crores in the earlier 3 HAMs, which we have right now taken on. So this would be INR 600 crores -- almost INR 600 crores. So this INR 600 crores would be '23, if there was INR 300-odd crores in '23 and some INR 300-odd-plus crores in '24 -- '23, '24 like that. In '22 it's INR 187 crores; '23, it's INR 300 crores; '24, it's INR 300 crores. And again, as far as monetization program is concerned that we are already targeting that as soon as we complete these projects by the next 6 months I think deal can be done.
So INR 187 crores investment in FY '22, it's INR 300 crores and INR 300 crores in '23 and '24 each. The total investment is around...
If we add some -- if we add on with INR 2,500 crores more HAM in this current financial year.
Okay. And then about INR 780-odd crores is the total investment in the next 3 years, '22, '23, '24?
Correct. Correct.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking Limited.
Yes. Sir, just 1 follow-up. When I look at the consolidated order book I mean those 2 accounts we have given that our outstanding order book is INR 7,677 crores. whereas our stand-alone order book, as you said, is around INR 7,040 crores, so what is the difference and will...
See. All the HAM SPVs, if you see on the consol base, our total order balance is as per NHAI being -- actually awarded in. And if you see to from SPV to EPC, it's almost a difference of about 18% to 15%. That is -- if we are INR 100 crores from -- as an SPV, if there is NHAI order and for EPC H.G. Infra would be having from INR 84 crores, INR 85 crores, that is a range, roughly I've given the guidance. So that is the difference.
So basically, we are not saying that this INR 700 crores can also kind of come back to HG in any form. It's just...
Not at all. Not at all.
So from HG stand-alone point of view, INR 7,040 crores is the number?
Right. Correct.
The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.
Sir, just 1 small bookkeeping question. Sir when I look at our order backlog, we have this component of almost around INR 440 crores reflected as others. Sir out of this INR 440 crores, I mean the number till last quarter used to be INR 100 crores, I am assuming you included that NTPC project here almost around INR 90 crores, INR 95-odd crores. So that would explain INR 200 crores. So what will explain the remaining INR 240 crores?
The remaining is INR 240 crores orders, balance orders.
I'm saying when I look at the order backlog the breakup that you gave on a project-by-project basis...
Yes. If you are seeing that most of the projects being captured and if you're talking about Rajasthan project, that is INR 105 crores [indiscernible] Maharashtra project MoRTH projects INR 224 crores. If you are seeing to the breakup, other this -- others because utility that as earlier as a part of our contract not being considered here in the amount, that utility is there. If you see that these all projects where we are running [indiscernible] project is there about INR 20 crores, which is left there. So these are all a few small sites which are added to the [indiscernible].
So did we receive any utility work orders this quarter?
Almost INR 120-odd crores of utility work is left out. This has been captured here.
The next question is from the line of [ Dhruv ] from Monarch AIF.
Yes. My question has been answered.
The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
Sir, just one question on the fund base and non-fund base limit and what is the utilization rate, sir?
Fund base and non-fund base limit, total, as of know, as the company is having, what are you talking about?
Yes. Yes. In general...
It's INR 1,120 crores.
Sorry, sir?
It's stand-alone only. We are having INR 1,120 crores of limit, which are already tied up, and we have a limit of the INR 1,540 crores with the additional exposure being target timeliness of about 6 months, it would be all done, whether joint documentation would be done. So out of INR 1,120 crores, INR 140 crores is the fund based where the utilization is almost INR 66 crores. And the remaining is non-fund base, which we are having some INR 811 crores to INR 810 crores to be very specific. That has been utilized. So almost INR 178 crores unutilized limit is available [indiscernible] bank guarantee on fund base. And some INR 85 crores in non-fund base. That is in the INR 1,120 crores already disbursed limit. If you're talking about the additional limit, that would be all other than that.
So from the INR 1,120 crores, now we are applied and it will go up to INR 1,540 crores?
INR 1,540 crores.
Okay, in a couple of months.
Correct.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Harendra Singh for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for participation in our quarter 4 and FY '21 earnings call. In case of project queries, you may get in touch with Pareto Capital or feel free to get in touch with us. We look forward to interacting with you in next quarter. Thank you all. Stay safe.
Thank you very much. On behalf of H.G. Infra Engineering Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.