DroneShield Ltd

ASX:DRO

Q4-2024 Earnings Call

[Oleg Vornik, executive]

My name is Oleg Vornik, and I'm the Chief Executive Officer of the business, and with me is Carla Balanco, our Chief Financial Officer and Joint Company Secretary.



Today, we'll talk about the summary of the 2024 results that we have released yesterday and talk about the outlook for the business. 2024 has marked a significant ongoing increase in the counter drone requirements all around the world as drones are used in all the conflict hotspots as well as starting to be used increasingly in civilian settings. So talking about counterterrorism and drones interfering with aircraft, for example.



We'll start by talking about the financials for the business and then turn to the underlying themes. So I'll turn to Carla.

[Carla Balanco, executive]

Thank you, Oleg. DroneShield's revenue reached a record $57.5 million in 2024, continuing our trend of year-on-year growth since its inception. Unlike 2023, which included a significant $33 million customer contract, the 2024 revenue was driven by smaller consistent customer contracts, highlighting a shift towards a more stable model.



For 2025, DroneShield is off to a strong start, having already recognized $18 million in revenue. Additionally, there is $34 million in revenue yet to be recognized, stemming from purchase orders that we've received but not yet delivered as well as deferred subscriptions and warranties. This sets the company up for another solid year.



DroneShield is continuing its focus on driving subscription revenue, which has seen a 100% increase from the prior year. DroneShield maintains a healthy cash balance of $250 million, which is being strategically invested to drive the development of our next-generation products and also the establishment of the necessary structures to operate a larger business.



Cash receipts for 2024 are in line with revenue, whilst during 2023, a significant portion of subscription and warranties were deferred to be recognized in future periods.



I'll hand over there to Oleg, to speak about the pipeline. Thanks.

[Oleg Vornik, executive]

Thanks, Carla. There is $1.2 billion in pipeline that the business currently maintains and that's across a range of geographies globally. U.S. continues to be a significant contributor and the primary driver of our pipeline. However, we are seeing increasing contributions from Asia Pacific and those are following our news have seen a $12 million sale that we have announced last month as well as other regions, for example, the roughly $8 million sale that we also announced in Europe last month.



There are increasing opportunities in Australia. We are quite excited about the LAM156, the counter drone program to be rolled out across Australian defense force bases in Australia and also overseas that DroneShield is participating in.



Last year, we took opportunity to significantly scale the size of the engineering capability of the business. We have grown roughly from about 90 staff at the end of '23 to approximately 275 staff today, including over 200 engineers across variety of hardware and software. Fundamentally, we are competing at the cutting edge of counter drone technology globally against a very challenging diversity. What we often say is that we do not consider other counter drone companies as our true competitors. The real competitors are the drone manufacturers, which are starting to put significantly complex technologies, specifically designed to avoid conventional counter drone detection and defeat, which is why it's really important to have substantial amount of ongoing research in the business.



The product does not have to be perfect. The analogy we use is a little bit like fence. People cut hold with fences, people climb fences, but they still deter well over 95% of potential issues. However, the key is to continue to drive the development and which is why we're seeing quarterly software updates and hardware refreshes every 2 or 3 years.



In addition to R&D, we are continuing to invest in our manufacturing capacity. All the products today are manufactured in Australia with 2 outsourced manufacturers around the country as well as our own manufacturing capacity in our headquarters, which account for about 10% to 20% of the total.



There are roughly 3 separate product families that we run, being the dismounted -- detection, dismounted defeat and on the move, which is now combined with the fixed-site or multisensor multi-mission capability. In the on-the-move family of products, we both integrate third-party equipment and also being integrated by other parties into their overall suite of equipment. We do a variety of really complex technologies, which link into our command and control system called DroneSentry-C2`, which bounds in a standard control room type environment as well as the tactical configuration, which is in a bomber tablet, and that is also expected to underpin our sales growth in the future years.



Today, the dismounted products correspond to majority of our sales. However, as we grow forward, especially with our drones in C-UxS platform being the backbone of our on-the-move fixed-side capability, we expect the on-the-move family to contribute significantly to the total, creating a more balanced diversification of our revenues together with the third-party systems like radars, cameras and also potentially kinetic feed solutions, noting our partnership with Epirus' high-power microwave solutions to have that diversified revenue base.



The next slide is around geographic contributions, which I briefly covered before. So U.S. is our key market, where we have approximately 20 people in Virginia and also using a number of third-party distributors in addition to direct third-party sales.



In the United Kingdom, we use a partnership with British Telecom, where we have already won a couple of contracts and looking forward to winning more transactions. So AUKUS, U.K., U.S., Australia lines is important in ongoing work there.



In Asia, we're seeing ongoing amount of work and essentially have a number of territorial conflicts and grey zone warfare between China and its neighbors, and we're working with a number of parties, including some very sizable opportunities. In fact, this is the area of probably the largest number of projects we have at the moment.



In Europe, we have now our own dedicated team on the ground, mostly based in Denmark, who are covering that market, and we are going to continue adding salespeople to this diverse region as obviously, geopolitics is continuing to drive increase in defense budgets as well as overall counter drone demand over there.



Australia is one of our 2 homes together with the U.S., and we will continue expanding with LAM156 as well as other opportunities in the region. In terms of other geographies, so we have now got boots on the ground in Mexico as well as in Emirates, and we'll continue being busy in those markets.



In Latin America, we're seeing significant use of drones across Mexico, Colombia and also going right up to the southern border of the U.S. And governments are seeking ways to effectively mitigate those issues fighting drug cartels. So we are providing support in that conflict or series of conflicts. And in UAE, so as those who have been following up for a while, remember, our first multimillion dollar sale back in 2018 actually came from Middle East, and now we're continuing to build up on that legacy, which is what our on-the-ground presence in the region is about, both selling directly and also seeking to partner with large integrators in the region.



And that completes our presentation. I'm looking at the questions, and I don't actually believe we have any, which is unusual for one of our webinars. So those that have questions as of the end, please feel free to e-mail us to investors@ droneshield.com, and we'll answer you best we can.



Actually, one quick question that we just received, which is how the U.S. tariffs on China impact DroneShield's supply chain. So because there are no -- we don't sell anything from China to the U.S. or anywhere else. So in that sense, we are not impacted by the tariffs.



Just to give you a sense of how DroneShield products are manufactured, there's approximately 75% to 80% of Australian content within our products. And then the rest, mostly around chips, batteries and so on will go to the U.S. for the supply.



And a couple of more questions coming through now. So I'll answer them now. The next one is, do we have an expected time frame to bring the company to profit?



We do not issue guidance. So I will answer you indirectly in a way that is hopefully constructive. The current cost base of the business is just a little bit north of $5 million a month. So this is essentially salaries and supporting R&D materials for close to 300 people-plus associated costs. The business has fairly significant gross margin, which is through basically highly differentiated nature of our products. And going forward, we would expect revenue to be significantly higher than what it was in '24. And you would have noticed that with the cost base as it was, we just had a small loss in '24. So at a high gross margin, even a relatively small increase in revenue would result in profitability. So I hope I answered the question the way that Michael was saying. Unfortunately, we don't give guidance because it's a nascent industry, and it's just a little too hard to forecast.



Next is the related question. Can we further explain the reason behind the $1 million loss?



So hopefully, I just mentioned, we have made a significant investment in capability of the business going from about 90 people to approximately 275, and this will grow to about, call it, 330 over the next several months, mostly around engineering but also operational sales capability. So that investment on what was only a small increase in revenue is what's been driving a $1 million loss.



Now if you think about the revenue, so what we're finding is that there were probably a number of reasons why the revenue was only a relatively small increase. But as the industry matures, what we're finding is the customers are essentially taking a little longer to issue contracts, but those contracts tend to be larger than what we've seen in the past, which is hopefully what that people are now seeing in the style of our releases where we're now regularly getting contract to sort of a $10 million benchmark. So we expect a lot of that sales momentum to start coming into 2025. And in fact, most importantly, you would have seen, as Carla started by saying, we have essentially either recognized or have received purchase orders for $52 million in revenue already just 2 months into the year compared to $57 million for the whole of 2024.



The next question is, when we say there are no direct competitors, do we compete with drone manufacturers?



Well, sorry, when we say there are no direct competitors, how do we view counter-drone suppliers like Dedrone, Anduril, etc. So at the back in the appendix, you see a page that has us compared to other counter-drone manufacturers and both Dedrone and Anduril are listed there. So Dedrone, we're finding is mostly playing in the non-military space. So that civilian area, which is still a very nascent area, which is also why we haven't really been going there. We generally find that going from military to civilian is easier than other way around because the expectations of quality are higher in the military space. The main thing you have to watch for is the price point, which is where modularity of our products comes in, where essentially so long as you can have a number of different products that you can have different price points and locate them at different points of the facility, etc., and meet the expectations of the customer and incorporate third-party products like cameras and radar and so on, which we're able to do, that should meet the requirements of the customers.



So now we are competing with Dedrone and other civilian suppliers in the emerging civilian market. So markets like airports, data centers, stadiums and so on. And as that market -- those markets mature, we expect them to become a significant contributor to our revenues. Anduril, so slightly different beast. Obviously, very large and fast-growing company. They're doing a lot more than just counter-drone. And for us, counter-drone is essentially our full-time job. So we would expect to either compete with them or have them as our customer depending on the situation. But what I would say is, the overlying theme with all of this is from day 1, we said that we want to be the overarching supplier in just about every situation. So for example, Anduril will not play in the civilian space, while we go into the civilian space as well.



We go geographically much wider than Anduril. In fact, we're finding most of our U.S. competitors tend to focus on just several niche markets and a lot of them have to do with the U.S. export compliance compared to the Australian export compliance. The process in Australia tend to be more streamlined. And so we're saying that we're doing a full range of detection and defeat, dismounted on the move fixed site, geographic diversification and also what we believe is one of the largest and the oldest counter-drone engineering teams in the world.



Now why does the time matter? When you're using artificial intelligence to detect and take down drones, you have to build very large data sets that support your artificial intelligence engines to basically accurately do the detection task. So when you're doing AI, actually writing algorithms is a relatively easy part. The much harder part is to having large, clean, well-tagged data sets. So that is where time is important. So your drones in the radio frequency background across Europe, Asia, U.S., Australia will all sound entirely different. So time in the market understanding customer requirements is not something that can be done overnight, and we're one of the oldest brand names in this industry.



And everything I mentioned, by the way, up to now are what you call technical differentiators. When you think about commercial differentiators, is having built our products in collaboration with our customers. So when you're working in defense and security, it's a little different to the consumer space. What we say is that customers don't tend to buy Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter planes off the Internet and then leave Google feedback. It's a close confidential collaboration with the manufacturer, and that's what we're seeing in the counter-drone space as well. And so those relationships then enable you to have the desired customer features inside of your products and then turn the customers buy into working with you over a multiyear period.



The next question is, what is the time frame of the Australian program? I believe that's reference to LAM156 that we mentioned has the tender closed, when do we expect the contract to be issued?



That information is confidential, so we can't comment, but you would see references to LAM156 in the press that this program is expected to commence rollout in the next year or 2.



The next question is, given the sales pipeline is tilting away from the U.S., what do we anticipate the revenue mix to be in FY '25, presumably geographically?



U.S. will continue to be a major contributor and will continue to grow. However, the point I was making earlier is that the other regions will also continue to grow significantly, most notably Asia Pacific, Europe and also Australia, of course. Although in Australia, the opportunity is a bit more binary, so specific to, for example, whether we win LAM156.



We believe there's going to be a more geographically balanced coverage. So in the past last year, we're looking at about 70% contribution from the U.S. and I think from memory, about maybe 10% from Australia and then 20% from everywhere else. This will be more balanced. It's difficult to say how much exactly, but that's exactly what we're seeking to achieve diversification across geographies and the product line-up.



The next question is around the engineering numbers. So having grown to about 200 engineers, how do we think about managing group productively and how much more staff are we budgeting to add to the organization?



So we're currently sitting at about 200 engineers out of approximately 275 people. We will grow to approximately, at this point, the expectation is to grow to approximately 330 total staff, that's globally, but most of the growth will be within Australia and most of the additional 50 or so staff will be engineering hires. We're very careful in terms of how we hire. It's very easy to drop standards, and we try to make sure that the new hires coming on are as good or better than the existing talent, and we search the market globally, not just in Australia in a number of ways as we seek to attract the world's best talent. Thankfully, Australia is a really good place to live. And at that point, we expect the -- if the point was in regards to the cost, we expect to probably sit somewhere between $5.5 million and $6 million in terms of the cash cost of the business all up before revenue per month.



In terms of how the engineering team is managed, I think the crisis management theory is that once you cross certain thresholds being something like 50, 100, 200, 300 people, the whole organizational structure tends to change. So we've been very cognizant of that in terms of how we do our internal communications, how we manage our road map and so on to make sure that we continue being productive, how we onboard people so to reach the peak productivity fastest. So there's a lot goes into this.



The next question is around, what is the mix of military versus non-military tenders in the sales pipeline?



Of the cuff, I would say, approximately 3/4 of the pipeline would correspond to military related, which to me is generally intelligence, border security and so on.



The next question is, would we ever consider a reverse stock split to increase share price and earnings per share to be in line with other stocks?



I think this is probably not, although these things are something that the Board is regularly considering. My view is that the focus of the business should be on underlying business performance as opposed to having distractions. And also -- and this is more of a philosophical point. I believe that reverse stock splits reduce liquidity. So that is not going to be necessarily a great for share price line-up.



The next question is, is the Trump administration going to have impact on our expected sales?



So I guess really between the lines of that question, that is what is the current status of Ukraine negotiations likely to mean for our business. Ukraine has actually been not a huge contributor to our recent sales. Interestingly, as U.S. is now becoming more uncertain in terms of the military aid to Ukraine, there is a significant potential of European governments stepping up depending on where those discussions go. And we're seeing that in our pipeline. But more generally, I don't think the global conflicts are going to go away.



As I was saying before, we're seeing fairly full on drone-based warfare in places like Mexico and Colombia. We're seeing a lot of tensions and a lot of it has drones underpinning it in the Asia Pacific region around China. So we don't believe that all of this will suddenly go away and the world continues to be geopolitically tense place for foreseeable future and drones will continue to be the choice of a lot of their technology, whether it's grays zone warfare or simply the choice of technology to conduct reconnaissance missions, to conduct payload delivery missions and with it the need for counter drone equipment. The genie is out of the bottle now, and I think it's pretty factual that drones are going to be the future of war. And so with it will be the need for counter-drone equipment.



The other thing is there's a big difference between traditional defense technologies. So we're talking guns, helmets and so on and drones and counter-drone equipment. So helmets and guns and other similar things existed since a very, very long time ago. So there's a real situation of those technologies. And yes, war drive demand for that. But as things ebb and flow, that demand can also case.



With drones and counter-drone, the market penetration for those technologies is timing. So even in the very likely case this world peaks tomorrow, military planners will be looking at Ukraine, Latin America, Middle East and Asia Pacific and saying, well, drones are clearly the choice of a strike and reconnaissance mechanism in the future. So we need a whole of drones and a whole of counter-drone equipment to stop adversary doing that. So I don't think demand for counter-drone equipment is going to reduce or in fact, stop accelerating anytime soon.



The next question is, have we built enough capacity in the manufacturing expansion to be able to satisfy short delivery times?



There's approximately $60 million in book value of inventory, which roughly corresponds to north of $200 million in sale value of the equipment that we have on the shelf. The equipment technically takes approximately 4 months to build and most of the lead times for our components, there is anywhere between 100 and 400 line items inside of most products that we make, working with dozens of different suppliers.



So as mentioned at the start of the presentation, there is -- so there is approximately $0.25 billion of book value -- sorry, sale value of the equipment. There is 4 months lead time for us to build more. Customers generally are happy to wait a period of time if there is a mega large order. And as mentioned upfront at the start of the presentation, there is about $500 million per annum of production capacity between us and the 2 outsourced manufacturers that we use. So we don't expect for that to be an issue, certainly in terms of getting to several hundred million of revenue per year.



The next question is, why does DroneShield not have any kinetic defeat systems?



So firstly, we do partner with Epirus that provides high-power microwaves, which basically try electrics in anything that moves towards them, which is a form of kinetic defeat. We also believe that kinetic defeat is an area of a lot of defense price. So you have the likes of [inaudible 29:22] with their CRS remote weapon station system that is used by a lot of the U.S. Army. So it's a global market leader in the remote weapon station capability. There are emerging laser solutions. And for example, there's a great Australian company called AIM Defence that we'll be seeking to work with at the right point. And generally, what we're finding is that because we're an integrator, a lot of our capability is driven by what our customers request. So far, we're finding that so defeat is actually a lot more ubiquitous. And also, like I said, there are plenty of people that make good hard to beat capabilities. So we didn't feel the need to go into them themselves.



I believe that the future for a business like ours will be to be the best in individual technologies that we can be, being radio frequency-based sensing, smart jamming and then for the rest, for us to be the best integrator that we can be. And that basically includes artificial intelligence powered sensor fusion, how you provide your analytics, how you talk to other management systems and so.



So I think the next question, I'll pass to Carla just to sit there and you guys listening to me. So the question is, can we provide a rundown of the intended R&D spend in FY '25 and how much of it is expected to be expensed?

[Carla Balanco, executive]

Okay. Great. So you would have noticed in our annual report that this year is the first time that we've been to the capitalization of our R&D, which has been a really good place for the business because previously, we weren't able to capitalize a lot of that R&D. So this year, we capitalized approximately $6 million of our R&D. And moving forward, we're looking to capitalize approximately 60% of the engineering salaries that are working on pure research and development of our next-generation products. So that will be a significant amount. We're looking to capitalize around $20 million in terms of R&D. So over the next year, more than that, but we're looking at around 60%, and that would be $20 million.

[Oleg Vornik, executive]

Great. Thank you, Carla. So going on with questions and there are plenty coming, which is great. Is Anduril a big competitor for LAM156 system integration part of tender? How likely is it to win the SIP? And what happens if DroneShield is not chosen for it? Thank you.



So there's very little we can talk about this as we bound by confidentiality. But I would say, we have a number of unique differentiators for the system integration partner. And we also believe that there are a number of opportunities for companies to participate in LAM156. So stay tuned.



The next question is, over the last few months, the investor noticed several large institutional investors take significant stakes in DroneShield. Does this change any part of how we operate or does it provide further opportunities potentially?



So, you would have noticed that most recently, we had Regal take a substantial just over 5% stake. And then we have one large index funds take position us in around December. That doesn't really change the way we operate. These are passive investors. Fundamentally, our focus is on continuing to drive the business and deliver best long-term outcomes.



Next question, can we speak to how long larger contracts may take to close after entering pipeline? That really depends on whether this is the first contract of its kind that the customer is looking to place with DroneShield or whether it's essentially the next step after a number of smaller contracts.



I would say, the short answer to the question is probably somewhere between 6 and 18 months. And whether it's closer to 6 or closer to 18 depends on the customer's own understanding of their internal processes. So most of the delays often happen on the customers' end as opposed to anything to do with us where the customer is figuring out, okay, this is the first time, which is usually what happens when the customer places a counter-drone order with us. This is the first time they place a counter-drone order, how do they go about paperwork, who is supposed to sign off, etc. Now the good news is once they've gone through it once, it's easier for them to do it again, but 6 to 18 months is the answer.



For our typical sales contracts today, what percentage of revenues are recurring?



If you define recurring as repeat customers, I would say well over 90% of our revenues are recurring. If you are defining recurring as SaaS, I mean, you've seen the SaaS stats where essentially a couple of million bucks over about $50 million-odd. So we're talking maybe 5%, but we expect it to continue to build up over time. And that relates to ongoing software.



Subscriptions, why as we launch new generations of products? The aim is to have every single product have software subscription. Today, not every product does, for example, DroneGun does not. And also, we'll be aiming to have multiple subscription products sitting over certain of our products, for example, DroneSentry.



In terms of the target for recurring revenues, which was a follow-on question from the same investor. So we stated in the past that we are seeking to have close to 50% from our revenues being recurring, and this is a combination of software subscriptions and long-term R&D contracts. Time frame is a little difficult to tell, but anticipating in the next 5 years.



The next question is related to what we covered before. How do we explain approximately $60 million in operating expenses being approximately $5 million or so a month?



So you're looking at around 300 people. You're looking at R&D expenses such as any core chamber, number of R&D parts for hardware and software for the sales, you're looking at participation at a number of global conferences, demos and so on. So that's basically what's driving the number.



The next question is around the civilian sector. So given it lags behind the military industry, are we seeing an uptick in civilian-related projects such as stadium protection, data centers, airports and so on? And can we provide a breakdown of percentage between the current pipeline in the military versus civilian projects?



So yes, we are seeing an uptick in those projects. A lot of it will be legislation focused. So today, around the world, including both U.S. and Australia, there is a fair amount of, let's call it, friction in the legislation where there is a general understanding that it's common sense, if you are, for example, a law enforcement officer, if you are a national significant asset like a key airport that you should be able to have a counter-drone solution. However, the legislation is still catching up with it and the amount of that catch-up ranges across the countries, the specific type of the user and so on.



So we are actively monitoring that situation and also in certain places, actually actively participating in promoting the change in legislation to enable civilians to both detect and safely defeat the drone. So noticing we don't do hard defeat. So there is much less collateral impact from a jammer compared to remote weapon station. Our products are well suited for civilian installations. So we expect that to increase over time, but legislation will probably be the biggest driver of this. And then essential breakdown between the pipeline and military versus civilian, I would say probably 75% of the country.



Next question, estimate of the current $5 million cash cost per month when we get from 270 to 330 people.



So I would say, overall, and this is not just staff, but associated costs, including the R&D and sales costs, probably somewhere between $5.5 million and $6 million a month. Now on the P&L basis, that's going to be less as Carla mentioned before, there will be a capitalizing expensing element, especially to do with R&D.



The next question is, do executives plan on buying back into the business after last year's sell-off?



So I'm assuming the question is around the selling of shares by some of the executives. So obviously, we can't comment on this, but what I'd say is stay tuned.



The next question is around U.S. brokers, stock brokers. So FYI, most U.S. brokers charge a lot to trade their own stock. And so many people that the person asking the question knows have avoided buying. Are we aware of this and what can we do about this?



So I think there are a number of ways to do this. It is possible for Americans, for example, to set up an account with an Australian broker and avoid the costs that some -- I don't believe all U.S. brokers will be charging high amount, but avoid the cost that some of the U.S. brokers are buying. And we would strongly recommend to trade on the ASX primary exchange as opposed to the big slips secondary exchange in the U.S. for better execution price and liquidity. For those that want to be connected with a broker, so I would highly recommend Bell Potter that has a U.S. desk, please contact us, so [e-mail], and we'll be in touch with them to set up account if you're an American wanting to trade, don't switch to the primary exchange.



Next one, Ukraine has a DroneShield coped gun was stolen tech on the same products where this competitive against us. Look, I don't think, it's stolen tech. gun-shaped jammer is a common situation. We were one of the very first to sell this concept. But I would say, there are a lot of differentiators between a cheap gun-shaped jammer. And look, I don't have a comment on -- I don't know what specific product is being referred to here, but the fact it's a gun-shaped jammer. But there is a lot of science that goes into how you send a signal, how you build the product and so on from your gun-shaped jammer. There are products which simply emits a ton of energy and not necessarily safe for the operator and often being just simplified in the field.



DroneShield is the opposite of that, where we are at the high end of the quality. So there's quite a bit of science into making a good product. Now Ukrainians will obviously use whatever they can get their hands on. It's a difficult situation for them. Some will be our products to the extent that we're able to secure military aid for them. Some will be their own, some will be maybe third-party suppliers. So we're not particularly concerned about it, except, of course, we want to keep highlighting the quality of our products.



The next question is how confident are we to having robust enough security systems internally to prevent cyber attacks on our engineering designs a lot of IP through our employees?



So we have set up a fairly sophisticated internal security department, which is led by an executive with previous security experience at sort of companies which would have experienced the best of cyber attacks in the world. So our security team is very well familiar with the sort of attacks which could be done. We thankfully never had a successful attack so far, although there is certainly no lack of trying from what we believe. We also spent quite a bit of focus on educating our employees in terms of phishing e-mails and so on and how information is managed. So there are particular cyber and information sharing best practices for defense and other sensitive businesses, and we follow the best of those practices.



Do we have any purchase or acquisitions on the horizon on the horizon?



So when we did the capital raise in the middle of last year, we talked about a business in the electronic warfare space that we're considering to acquire. We're still working with that business, doing due diligence on them. And if it transpires, we will acquire them. We are being very diligent about it. It's obviously a big distraction if it goes wrong. And at the same time, we're continuing to scan the market for any other suitable acquisitions. There's nobody in the counter-drone space itself, which interests us because we believe that we are fairly unique. However, in other areas, most notably electronic warfare, we're continuing to scan the market.



Can we talk more about DroneShield software solutions and potential subscription-based recurring earnings?



So what I can say is that a lot of our products, not all yet, like I was saying, Drone Gun does not have it yet, have subscriptions associated with it where we do quarterly updates to the firmware, think about it like antivirus, right? So it's a move using AI to a library less based approach where instead of using sort of a fingerprint type library, you're saying, okay, well, like just with your eyes, you can tell something is a drone if you've never seen the drone before, the algorithm in the radio frequency space can basically figure out if something is a drone and advise what the close of drone has seen to this never seen before trend.



The key challenge with detection, which I would argue is part of defeat even in a lot of cases is drones operate on a very busy part of the spectrum, and they're increasingly utilizing more-and-more of pretty diverse parts of the spectrum, especially if they're seeking to avoid traditional counter-drone detection defeat techniques. So with the software updates become increasingly important. But at a certain point, you're saying that even the underlying hardware you need to upgrade, which we'll be doing with the sort of 2 to 3 year cycles and quarterly software update cycles on top of the hardware.



In terms of the recurring earnings from that, so you would have seen in '24, we posted approximately 5% of total revenues being on the back of that. But as we introduce new -- all of our new generations of products, 100% of them will have software subscriptions attached to them and some of them will have multiple software subscriptions attached to them. So with it, we expect the recurring or SaaS-based earnings to continue increasing.



Next question is, is there a chance that jamming will be useless in the future?



So I think there's a chance for anything, but I don't see the chance likely in the near term. The reasons for that is that drones continue to need radio frequency connection even as autonomy is increasing. Yes, there is increasing GPS guided navigation, but you can jam GPS and then the drone has basically no way to go. Yes, there is image or terrain-based navigation, but today has severe distance limits. And when you think about the fiber optic cables, which seems to be the latest trend, if you think about it pragmatically, so you have a drone that's basically spooling potentially kilometers of fiber optic cable behind it, think about the likelihood of drones snagging cables between each other to the trees, to the buildings, the weight of those cables, what happens if adverse weather. So all of that plays a part. So we think practically, that is unlikely to happen.



And the other thing to keep in mind is drones is not a binary thing, meaning it's not like you have a drone on one side and there's an intercontinental ballistic missile on the other. So as systems like ours, drone manufacturers to put enough circuitry in the drone to take it from a $1,000 drone to $100,000 drone at which point other kinetic defat methods become cost viable. We have arguably succeeded. So remember that our mission is not to take down anything in the air, but to take the mass and the cost-effective threat from the equation. And that is very difficult to produce that is fully jam-proof, suitable for future companies.



Next one, what do we think about the high amount of short sellers?



So those of you that read my Forbes article will see my view on this. I genuinely don't understand this. I wish the short sellers came out and stated their reasons. We have over $200 million of cash in the bank. We are tracking for another all-time high revenue year. We are in an industry with insane amount of tailwinds. I generally don't understand those people. To the extent you have a large contract being announced, and we have a number of those in the pipeline, that will likely cause a significant change in the share price, likely prior to open if we receive that contract overnight as we often do with our global business. So I'll be curious to see what the logic of the short is, because it eludes me.



Next question is, do we think DroneShield has better chances globally than U.S.-based competitors because of Australia's kind of neutral status in the world?



Look, I think it depends on the geography you're talking about. So there are a lot of countries which would strongly prefer to buy American kits and receive a lot of U.S. foreign military aid, where being a U.S.-based manufacturer is an advantage. But I mean, look, being Australian is not a disadvantage. I certainly don't see it that way.



The next question is, is there a possibility that our inventory becomes obsolete or loses value?



In short, yes, but there are a number of ways in which we mitigate it. So we make sure that we do not just keep building the same product up to the point where a new product is released. So you do a build and then you run down the stock and you obviously have your technology road map. And so you would know usually about 1 year, 1.5 years in advance when the next launch of the successive product is. So you aim to run down your stock prior to that, and we've been doing this for entire life of DroneShield, although, of course, the scale of everything is now higher. And also, there is a possibility to update those products without completely costing them out, right? So if you're talking about changing frequency sets, changing some of the circuitry that can be done at a fraction of the cost of building a new product as well.



The next question is, do we have any plans to establish a U.S. listing or a proper listing in the over-the-counter market?



This is something that the Board is regularly assessing. But at this point, we are not doing it as we believe this is going to be a significant distraction to the business, and we prefer to focus on growing the underlying business.



The next question I'll pass to Carla. Do you expect the roughly $50 million in revenue visibility or $52 million that we mentioned on the call to be booked in the first half of '25?

[Carla Balanco, executive]

Yes. I do expect that majority of that will be booked in the first half of 2025. And the remainder -- most of the hardware deliveries in relation to that $52 million will be delivered in the half year and the remaining of the year, a significant portion is deferred subscriptions and warranty.

[Oleg Vornik, executive]

Thank you, Carla. The next question is, when will senior execs have given the game to align interest with investors?



So we use performance options to provide alignment between a number of employees. So over 100 employees out of the 300 or so in the company have those performance options, which basically convert to shares across when DroneShield achieves $200 million in a rolling 12-month period. So think of it a $200 million of annual revenue and cash receipts, which is a significant incentive and alignment between the employees and the investors.



Next question. It seems like the entire world is more sensitive to drone activity because of what's happening in Ukraine. Yes, agree. Do we think this will increase the speed of anti-drone legislation?



Yes. And also, we're seeing other things like, for example, the New Jersey drone sitings have no doubt they brought the public eye in the U.S. to the issue, and this will help accelerate the legislation. I'd say any sort of high-profile incident involving drones continues to play on the minds of the legislators.



How high will the SaaS be in the future?



So previously, I mentioned that over the next several years, we are aiming targeting between the SaaS and the long-term R&D contracts, which are fundamentally software anyways to be up to 50% of the revenue.



Do we think our shares are underappreciated or undervalued?



Look, it's difficult for me to provide that comment. Those who are interested in broker reports. So we are being actively covered by Shaw and Partners and Bell Potter. Those are independent views. We don't endorse them necessarily, but we have copies of the reports, and we're welcome everybody who wants to see those, please write to us at investors@ droneshield.com, and we'll provide copies of those reports, which basically give broker values and forecasts on our business.



Are there any vulnerabilities in electronic component supply given the current escalating international trade wars?



We don't see any. So our supply chain is fairly concentrated to the U.S. and Australia. And obviously, the 2 nations are fairly well linked. We have a dedicated supply chain team, which is regularly talking to all of our suppliers and make sure that we're not stuck. I often a story about maybe 5 years ago where RF control has what is roughly $20 that is made by 1 specific U.S.-based manufacturer. And we're talking device that's worth hundreds -- sorry, tens of thousands of dollars, right? And the just went out of stock for about 3 months. So that's 5 years ago and basically, our production has seen for 3 months while the got back in stock. So we learned the lesson. And also, by the way, during the lockdowns through '21, '22, we're also seeing a lot of disruption. So we have learned to build our supply chain with sufficient amount of backup redundancy that this kind of thing doesn't happen. Now naturally, there's always so much redundancy you can do for key components like chips. But so far, we haven't encountered any issues.



DroneShield still has a lot of cash on hand? True. Is there any consideration being given to strategic acquisitions or significant equipment purchases that will help us either with the acquisition of peripheral systems to your offering or reduction in the cost base of manufacturing?



So on the last one, we're not looking to purchase anything to do with our manufacturing supply chain, and that's deliberate. We are a very high-margin business. Manufacturing is fundamentally a low-margin business, and it's a very different skill set. So our skill set is to rapidly innovate, rapidly prototype, understand what the market needs, see the themes in the market in the next several years. A large-scale manufacturing, it's not simple whatsoever, and it has its own complexities, and we certainly do not want to make an acquisition that will, a, reduce our margins; and two, walk into a lot of issues.



Our main objective here is not to reduce the manufacturing cost. I mean don't get me wrong. Our supply chain team we got here the very best pricing and payment terms. But success to this business will not be taking another 1% or 2% of our cost base. It will be about growing revenues, which is where our focus is going.



In terms of acquisitions, so I mentioned before that we're seeking to focus on electronic warfare type solutions. So whether it's hiring top talent, using consultancy-based approaches or purchasing businesses if that makes more sense to supplement what we believe a very cutting edge team within the company already.



Next one, can we expand a little around the gross margin comment? Can we put a range on it?



Look, I would prefer not to formally give an answer because obviously, we deal with customers. The last thing I want is to have customers then using the information to negotiate against us. But I mentioned the broker reports earlier. If you don't have access to those broker reports, please write to us and we'll -- so investors@ droneshield.com and we will send you the broker reports and you can defer the gross margins from that.



Is the transcript of this conversation going to be available?



Look, not at this point. We're just keeping it to the webinar.



The next question is, why don't directors not back the business and buy shares market shorter than investors' executive commitment?



So like I was saying, stay tuned. There is a bit of complexity around it. It's not as simple as it sounds. But when we have an update on that front, we'll let you know.



Next question related to what I just said, the person goes, many investors are concerned about the staff of the company having sold the shares. What would you say to those investors?



So a number of staff in the business still have meaningful holdings of shares. And importantly, over 100 out of the 300 staff in the company, including myself and Carla have performance options in the business, which link to a very significant upside in the company. So if we can hit $200 million of annual revenue that provides a very meaningful incentives for us. So that is essentially the alignment between the investors and the staff.



Next question is, what are -- what thoughts do we have on our revenue target for FY '28?



Sorry, we don't provide guidance, but I'm happy to refer you to broker codes.



Next question is, are we going to be at Falcon Peak event in August to demonstrate the tech to U.S. Army?



I can't comment to specific events, but our U.S. team does literally dozens of events every quarter and all the events which are relevant within.



Do we see a chance to enter the European market due to rising defense budgets? And is there already bigger projects in the pipeline in Europe?



Yes. We have entered the European market. We have hired several top-notch salespeople from one of our European competitors. They're based in Denmark, but we have staff outside of Denmark as well, and we're hiring more. We believe that Europe will be a key growth area. So we're already active. You would have seen the $8 million sale in Europe that we announced last month, and there are very meaningful chunky pipeline opportunities in Europe. And you can see in our investor presentation in the European section of the pipeline, there's a meaningful amount allocated against it. I think Europeans are waking up and coming to a conclusion that they need to look out for their own safety and the world is not what it used to be 5, 10, 20 years ago. And drones are the future work there. So with that, I think we're going to start increasing the defense spend as a percentage of GDP for a lot of European countries, which are right now well sub 2% for a lot of them to be close in line with U.S., Australia and so on. So we expect to benefit from that and yes, stronger in-continent presence, including a dedicated European DroneShield agency.



I believe we have now answered majority of the questions. We won't go through all of it. However, please feel free to e-mail us at investors@ droneshield.com, and we'll seek to answer the remaining questions. Thank you for your time.