Rail Vikas Nigam Ltd

NSE:RVNL

Earnings Call Transcript

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Rail Vikas Nigam Limited Q3 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call hosted by IDBI Capital. Ladies and gentlemen, kindly note, the call will be for a duration of 45 minutes. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vishal Periwal from IDBI Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

[Vishal Periwal, analyst]

Yes. Good afternoon, everyone. First of all, apologies for the delay in the start of the call. So from the RVNL management side, today, we have with us Mr. Rajesh Prasadji, who is the Director of Operations; Mr. Sanjeeb Kumar, Director of Finance and CFO; and also in the team, we have Ms. Kalpana Dubey, who is the company secretary.

So as usual, we'll have a brief from the management and then we'll have the lines open for Q&A. And due to time constraint with the management, so we'll have this call for 45 minutes. Yes. So that's all we have. Over to you, sir.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay, fine. Very good afternoon. So this Rail Vikas Nigam Limited, a Navratna PSU under Ministry of Railway was incorporated in January 2003. So it is 21 years old. And we were earlier involved only for the creation of the railway infrastructure and contributed around 30% of all kinds of railway infrastructures. Last 12 years, it has been rated excellence. The CARE rating has been AAA, outlook stable. This is a debt-free company.

And if you see the journey of 21 years, I will tell a few things about this particular company that it is a very vibrant relatively young. We have got the proven track record. And it is a mix of the efficiency of the private sector and authority of the -- and trustworthiness of the public sector. We have commissioned more than 16,000 route kilometers of railway infrastructures and the expenditure wise, it is INR 1,50,000 crores, which we have achieved.

We were also involved in the basically project-specific special purpose vehicles in creation of these SPVs. And we have commissioned 5 number of such special purpose vehicles for creation of railway infrastructure. And with these SPVs, the Government of India has basically earned a traffic of INR 110,000 crores without a single cash investment.

We have got -- it is a very lean and keen organization with around 1,300 persons, including the contract engineers. So if you are having a turnover of more than INR 20,000 crores, so you can work out the kind of efficiency this company is having that is around INR 14 crores per employee.

Now if you see this journey of 21 years. So I'll break it into 2 parts, that is 2003 to 2014. And by that time, we had an expenditure of INR 15,600 crores. And in the next part, that is 1st April 2014 to '24, it is INR 132,000. We have now crossed the INR 1,50,000 crore mark.

Turnover in FY '23, '24 -- 2013, '14 was INR 2,492 crores and '22, '23 was INR 20,300 crores. FY '23, '24 for the first time, it has crossed INR 15,000 crores mark. PAT in 2013, '14 was INR 157 crores. And last year, FY, we achieved INR 1,268 crores. And first 3 quarters in FY '23, '24 is INR 1,030 crores. Again, it is all-time high.

Now if you see the commissioning part, the total railway infrastructure, which was created up to 31st March 2014 was 5,100 kilometers. And subsequently, after that, we have commissioned 11,000 kilometers of railway infrastructure. Number of projects we had commissioned up to 2014, 40 numbers. And after '14 -- 2014, we have commissioned 100 projects handed over railways for the operation.

So what we wanted to project is that here is a company which has been rated excellent for the last 12 years by Department of Public Enterprises. We have got an order book of around INR 65,000 crores. We will reconcile after 31st March and then the exact numbers will be basically -- we will be able to tell you.

We are involved in the complete project life cycle that is the FLS, DPR, Plans, GADs. We have got the innovative models for execution, excellent contract management practices, and we have got a very lean setup. We were earlier in the government's biggest CapEx spender. And now we are transforming from the local rail infra to global all infra.

And if you see the performance of this particular company in last 5 years, the PAT has become 2x. Turnover in last 10 years is 10x. Turnover in last 12 years is 14x. So you can understand that how this particular company has been performing. In fact, the models in last few years have changed. We have reformed, we have performed and now we are transforming from the role of the contract manager to the contractor.

So this is what exactly I thought I should brief in the beginning. And now we will take some questions and then whatever may be the question and accordingly we will react and we'll try to give the answers, whether it is a Q3 number, future prospects or anything.

So now over to you, Vishal, to please ask questions, and the time limit is 45 minutes.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from the line of [ Harshit ] from [ BMW Wealth Advisor ].

[Unknown Analyst]

I wanted to know about the current order book and how we are looking at the like future 1 or 2 years with the -- in terms of orders that we are winning except for railways? And an update on Vande Bharat trains as well?

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. So I'll start with this. Earlier, I have said that we have got an approximate order book of around INR 65,000 crores, which roughly constitutes 50% from the nomination that is a typical projects, and 50% which we have bagged from market. So this is the present model. This is the approximate numbers. We will reconcile at the end of 31st March, and then we'll come back to you with the exact numbers of the order book. But roughly, it is like this.

Now, let us first talk about the Indian segments. The segments we are transforming from the local rail infra to global all infra. So we are now concentrating in all kinds of infrastructure. And in India, we are -- basically, the railway segment is our main expertise, main area, main forte and the high speed then these metro segments, we are executing 7 cities, the metros -- various kinds of projects in 7 cities. Then we have diversified into so many other fields.

For the export business, we have got a focus on neighboring countries like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Mauritius, African continents where there is an eschewed funding like LOC, World Bank, ADB,[ Zika ], AfDB, solar projects, then UAE also, the Saudi Arabia. We have recently participated in our PPP model project in Botswana, where we have been shortlisted. We are opening offices in some other neighboring foreign countries. So these are the export business. And in India, yes, Railway segment is a preferred segment. Metro segment is a segment where we are very comfortable because it is very technically challenging.

Regarding this Vande Bharat, the project is on track. We have already signed the MCMA. MCMA is the maintenance from the manufacturing. The coaches will be manufactured at Latur. And the first step after signing of MCMA is basically mockup. That is being -- basically, the assignment has been given to a vendor who are doing this mockup part. And after the mockup, basically the manufacturing of the rakes will be done. And the schedule of the manufacturing is -- the first prototype is required to be manufactured 24 months from the date of signing of the agreement.

Second prototype within 60 days of that and then the supply program is like that first year 12, second year 18, third year, 25, fourth year 25, fifth year 25, sixth year 15. So the project is on track, and we are hopeful that we will achieve, and we will try to deliver the best quality product in this particular segment, which is a totally a new segment for RVNL.

[Operator]

Our next question is from the line of Rohit Natarajan from Antique.

[Rohit Natarajan, analyst]

Can you hear me?

[Operator]

Yes.

[Rohit Natarajan, analyst]

So my question is more to do with the South African order, like there is already a tender for Trans-Kalahari, $10 billion project as such. What exactly is this project all about? I mean, what is the status or what is the status of the subsidiary that you have started? Could you please elaborate more on that?

[Unknown Executive]

We are working on so many foreign projects and since we are a listed company, whenever there is a positive development, these are the price-sensitive information. Whenever there is a positive development, we will inform to the exchange and through the website of RVNL.

[Rohit Natarajan, analyst]

Okay. Sir, my second question is the Vande Bharat order. The contract manufacturing was supposed to be awarded from the Russian agency to your organization. What is the status of that project?

[Unknown Executive]

See, this particular tender was for the 200 Vande Bharat train sets, out of which L1 was given. L1 is basically RVNL and then a joint stock company, Metrowagonmash and then joint stock company, LES. So we have been given basically a contract of 120 train sets. These will be manufactured at Latur. And then there are 3 workshops where the maintenance facilities will be upgraded. It has got a comprehensive maintenance component.

See, as far as basically road map for these Vande Bharat train sets are concerned, the first thing was that the contract agreement was supposed to be signed. The bank guarantees, et cetera, was supposed to be submitted. So accordingly, the MCMA has been signed. The mockup is being now done. And now the schedule which I have already told that the supply of first prototype is 24 months from the appointed date. Second is within 60 months -- 60 days. And then subsequently, the program I had narrated earlier.

You wanted to see whether some vendors have been appointed or not. See, it is being done by a company, Kinet Railway Solutions, where RVNL has got a share of 25%. And the development will take place only when the mockup is ready. And once the mockup is approved, then the real manufacturing will be done at Latur. Incidentally, this Latur workshop was constructed by RVNL only. And in fact, for the trial purpose, we had also manufactured one coach over there. So that factory is in readiness and the handing over, taking over with the railways going on.

Since it is still under the position of RVNL, it has to be first handed over to railway. And then from railway, it will go to the Kinet Railway Solutions. A special purpose vehicle which has been incorporated in the month of April. We had earlier signed a shareholder agreement in that connection in the month of July '23.

[Rohit Natarajan, analyst]

Appreciate this point, sir. Could you please elaborate more on the current status of $4 billion Kyrgyzstan project?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. See, basically, we were supposed to basically prepare the DPR and it has got 2 components. One is the finalization of the alignment, the other technical specifications and the project report -- detailed project report. So we have -- if you recall, we had earlier signed an MoU. For 4 projects, we had signed an MoU, and we had submitted a DPR for the Balekechi and Kara catch line. And the total cost was around $4 billion, INR 300 billion. And the DPRs have been submitted. The financial closure -- see, everything is with the government. What they are doing is that they are evaluating the DPR, the financial closure, et cetera.

And once it is done since we have already signed the MoU and the projects will be transferred to us, and we have formed a company called Kyrgyzindustry RVNL Close Joint Stock Company. So we are very hopeful that very shortly -- see, these railway infrastructures are complicated, number one, and it passes through a complete project life cycle. And the complete project life cycle starts from the concept, then the alignment, then the DPR, then the financing.

So these states have been already undertaken. The financing part, the financial institutions have been contracted, which is being done by the government of Kyrgyzstan. And once they approve the DPR and the financial closure, which is almost done, immediately the project will be transferred to us, and it will be executed on nomination basis just like the previous nomination of Government of India Ministry of Railways. And probably, the management fee is slightly better than the Government of India's management fee.

[Rohit Natarajan, analyst]

I really appreciate those comments, sir. Finally, my question is on, we have been an asset-light, a debt-free company without any major assets on the balance sheet. But given the nature of domestic landscape has dramatically changed, I recollect last time, we were talking something about road projects, where the total landscape is moving towards BOT toll. And even in the African project, Trans-Kalahari $10 billion project, it's a BOT where we have to finance the project. So incrementally, do you see business opportunities with a lot of capital deployment? Is that the strategy going ahead? Will the balance sheet be bloated with debt?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes, you are 100% correct. So you must have heard newspaper that recently, we had signed an MoU with REC, Rural Electrification Corporation, where the PFC is having 52% share. The idea behind this signing of MoU was that in case of any project financing, we will be much more comfortable when we deal with our government company. And the MoU was that in next 5 years, around INR 35,000 crores -- up to INR 35,000 crores of project financing can be done. And in that particular MoU, they had also agreed for infusing equity in the railway infrastructure SPVs.

See, I will cite 2 examples of HAM model projects, the Paradip Masakani Project, which is 100% subsidiary. And then this Chatra Expressways, where we have got a share of around 49%. So we need some kind of project financing, and that is why we have signed an MoU with REC. And in time to come whenever we need some kind of project financing, the cost of the -- project financing costs basically has to be loaded on the project and the project should be basically viable, and it should be able to service the debt during the construction and otherwise also. And accordingly, the bid should be -- the pre-bidding stage will have to take care of that.

So what I wanted to convey is that once we have signed the MoU with REC and the other financial institutions are also ready. So in time to come, we can see that depending upon the kind of projects, we will go to the market and we will take the loan and debt and accordingly, we will plan for execution of the projects, various kinds of projects.

[Unknown Executive]

I'll supplement to that. While we have arrangements for working capital enhancement, but ultimately, we want to be asset light. And so we are choosing more and more projects where the mobilization advance and search, other advances and financing is done by the clients in a way like we did with the railways project.

[Rohit Natarajan, analyst]

Got the point, sir. In terms of order inflows in the coming years, domestic as well as international, what is that number that we are looking at? If you could really help us on some qualitative guidance to go by.

[Unknown Executive]

See, what exactly we want? We want to have a top line, which should remain at around INR 20,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores level. But bottom line should grow and all the time, we want to have the order book of 3x, 3 to 4x of the basically turnover, that is the top line. So in that condition, we should maintain our order book of around INR 75,000 crores. So the inflow and outflow -- outflow will be around INR 22,000 crores, INR 20,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores because that is an optimal level.

And the order book 3x to 4x means it is around INR 75,000 crores. So every year, there should be an inflow of around -- a new inflow of INR 25,000 crores of orders. And regarding the breakup, I said the railway infrastructure is basically our forte, number one. Metro segment is a preferred segment and we are also diversifying in so many other segments. Foreign projects, we are eying so many projects in foreign countries. I said in the beginning that which are the countries where exactly we are trying to enter into.

We have already -- see, 2 years back, we were totally depending upon the Ministry of Railways. And today, we are having so many clients. And we are not only executing railway infrastructures, we are executing all kinds of infrastructures, and not limited to India, but also overseas. The first overseas project has also taken off very well.

So what I want to tell you is that our main focus is in time to come, we should have an order book of around INR 75,000 crores and every year, there has to be a new order of INR 25,000 crores coming to our equity from the domestic market or the international market.

[Operator]

Our next question is from the line of Rohan, an individual investor.

[Unknown Analyst]

Am I audible?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. You are very much audible.

[Unknown Analyst]

So with regards to commission of JV with Jakson Green, what is your plan with solar projects?

[Unknown Executive]

The JV -- at the moment, we have a project in -- we are looking at a project in Uzbekistan and another one in UAE -- Saudi Arabia. And both of these will be JVs with a 49%, 51%, with the Jakson Green doing the 51%. And since this is a short period work around a year or so, maybe at this stage next year, we will add it to both our revenues and profits.

[Unknown Analyst]

And one last question is, what is the high-speed railways market potential? And how can RVNL gain advantage from it?

[Unknown Executive]

Basically, when you were talking about the high speed, we should also talk about the semi-high speed. We should also talk about RRTS, we should also talk about the Metro segments. So RVNL is presently executing the Metro in seven cities, out of which Kolkata Metro is on nomination basis and rest all the metros that we have fetched from the market.

So you have asked about the potential. We have got a subsidiary called HSRC, and we were involved in pre-feasibility studies of the various high-speed corridors connecting Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai. So the 4 sites and the 2 diagonals, and we had submitted the various reports, detailed reports along with the financing model. So we're very involved in basically planning of these corridors.

Presently, there is only 1 corridor, which is under implementation stage. That is Ahmedabad to Mumbai, which is around 500 kilometers. And in time to come, you will find plenty of high-speed corridors. And in fact, I was going through an article that by 2047, 60% of the countries will have semi-high speed and the high-speed corridors. So what I foresee is that by 2027, we will have around 10,000 kilometers of high-speed networks.

And these are complicated and complex in price structures. So here comes the expertise of RVNL which has a proven track record. Therefore, we see a lot of roles coming our ways in implementation of the high-speed corridors, Metro segments and maybe RRTS in time to come.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Vishal from IDBI Capital.

[Vishal Periwal, analyst]

Sir, in order book, will this breakup be available in terms of sector-wise, how exactly it is segregated; railway, power and others?

[Unknown Executive]

Right now, I do not have, but roughly, I will tell you that INR 65,000 crores, 50% of that means around INR 32,000 crores or INR 33,000 crores is on the nomination basis, typical railway projects. And now if you really want to have the breakup. So I can tell you that the share of the Vande Bharat is around INR 9,000 crores. And then we are executing 7 number of metro projects, so that will be around maybe on the order of INR 7,000 crores. Chennai Metro itself is around INR 4,500 crores. Then we have got the work in the municipality. We have got the works in the electrification and transmission lines. We have got the works in the irrigation equipment. So altogether, we can -- I don't have the breakup, but yes, it can be done and the rough breakup is like this.

[Vishal Periwal, analyst]

Okay, sure, sir. And sir, in power sector distribution work, that we have got a couple of orders. So any JV is formed and what exactly is the nature of the work, if you can just provide some color?

[Unknown Executive]

There are various kinds of projects. Right now, I do not have the details, but just let me see. We are not involved in any JVs. We are executing ourselves based on our own credentials. And these are very important projects and unique nature of projects. We have got a different electrical -- one vertical, the electrical department who are looking after these projects. I will share afterwards regarding this RSS or whatever...

[Vishal Periwal, analyst]

Sure. And sir, qualitatively, can we say that the margins in the power sector and others, it will be relatively better or probably equal to what we have been getting in nomination or any color if you can provide?

[Unknown Executive]

See, earlier we were getting the works on the nomination basis where the management fee was paid. Now since we are in the market, so the different projects will have different kinds of margins. And sometimes the margins will be better, sometimes the margin will be less. But I will cite examples of the first projects which we took from the bidding and the first international project which we took through the bidding.

So first domestic project was Indore Metro because -- we cite examples because that is the oldest. We are very, very new and raw in this. So we got around two years and few months back and the project is nearing completion. And in fact, 4 months back, there was a trial for the metro over a, say, length of 6.6 kilometers, and it became the fastest metro construction.

Now the margin part, if you want to see that the margin in Indore Metro is slightly better than the margins which we used to get through the nomination basis. Similarly, the first overseas project for the development of basically Harbor and the port, it is a very highly strategic project, but I can tell you that in last 4, 5 months, we had done a reclamation of 22 hectares of land. And you can understand the kind of progress which we have made, number one.

Number two, margins in that particular project is also very good, and it is slightly more than the margin which we used to get on a nomination basis. So the initial projects, whether it's India or overseas, they are giving good results. See, these projects basically are challenging. And since we are fetching through the market, the challenges gets multiplied. And we'll have to work -- see, we are a professional company, and we want that everyone who is working with the company should actively involve in resolving the technical issues technically.

We should do a lot of value engineering, which we are doing it at the stage of prebidding, at the stage of execution. So let us see, but we are confident that in time to come. And the market has also been appreciating the approach and attitude of the company. And for a government company, it is not that easy that just you change your model that from the role of the contract manager, you become the contractor. But we have done it. We have shown it, and we have bagged orders. We have implemented also some of the projects after taking through the bid.

So altogether, I can tell you that the company has got a bright future. We need to work basically in such a manner that the projects are implemented on time with proper quality following the highest safety standards.

[Vishal Periwal, analyst]

Right, sir. And then one last question from my side. I think you did mention we are targeting a INR 20,000 crores to INR 22,000-odd crores kind of revenue. In the last 1, 2 quarters, we are seeing probably like a more flattish sort of number on Y-on-Y basis. Can you provide some color like in terms of range, will it be more towards INR 20,000 crores or INR 22,000 crores for a full year basis for FY '24? That will be my last question.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. So let me -- in the beginning, I explained that last financial year, we had a turnover of INR 20,300 crores. This year, FY '23, '24, first 3 quarters, it is more than INR 15,000 crores, all-time high. The PAT, the bottom line was INR 1,030 crores, more than INR 1,000 crores in first 3 quarters. So what I wanted to tell you, we convey to all the investors that we want to have the basically top line because that is the optimal level, almost optimal level, but we want to increase the bottom line.

And the bottom line can be increased by doing a lot of value engineering. The scope of creation of infrastructure in the country or overseas are plenty. And that is why we need to basically find out the projects which are of the interest of RVNL. I have already told about the preferred segments and how we are going to execute that. We have also explained some of the models I have explained, the examples I have cited. So what I wanted to tell is that the INR 21,000 crores, INR 22,000 crores is a kind of an optimal level.

The bottom line, yes, it should grow. And now we have got plenty of segments. So accordingly, some of the projects may have lesser profit, but some of the projects can lead to -- can give a very big margins also. So it is a mix kind of thing. And the order book, I have said that we will try to maintain 3x to 4x of the turnover every year.

[Vishal Periwal, analyst]

Yes, that's all from my side. And I think -- just to congratulate, I think order win has been pretty consistent with us. So congratulations on that.

[Operator]

Our next question is from the line of [ Dr. Manzoor Ahmed ], an individual investor.

[Unknown Analyst]

Sir, my question is, as you have mentioned that the top line will remain flat for the upcoming years, up to the 5 years. So what is your plan to increase the bottom line? Actually, in this quarter also, the bottom line has been 5%. And the profit after tax has been decreased by 6%. So can you throw some light on this?

[Unknown Executive]

See, if you -- we have got the different models for the margins and earnings. We have got the model of the government-nominated projects. We have got the model of getting the dividends from the SPVs. And now we will have the earnings from the projects which we have taken through the biddings.

See, these projects basically are the areas where we can really do a lot of value engineering at the stage of prebid, at the stage of execution. They are slightly complicated and complex and here comes the expertise. With the experience with the kind of proven track record, I can tell you that we can do a lot of value engineering. We can reduce the cost. We can execute on a faster track basis, faster manner.

And if you execute the project in a faster manner and if you really apply your value engineering and technology, then you will have -- certainly you are going to have better margins in the project implementation. This is what we have shown in Indore Metro. This is what we have shown in Maldives projects, the first Indian projects, which we got through the bidding, the first overseas project, which we got through the bidding.

[Unknown Analyst]

One more question. Just now we have formed the joint venture with Jakson Green. So what is the future plans regarding this? And how it will reflect on -- in terms of revenue and operating profit margin?

[Unknown Executive]

Joint venture with?

[Unknown Analyst]

Jakson Green.

[Unknown Executive]

The joint venture with Jakson Green, could you repeat your question?

[Unknown Analyst]

What is the future plan with Jakson Green and how it will reflect on revenue as well as in terms of operating profit margin?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. Those -- at the moment, we have a 49%, 51% JV in a company, JV that we have formed in India, RVNL Jakson Green. And the work that we will get, we'll do it accordingly. And as of now, we can only say that because it's a work that Jakson Green has capability, and we have the efficiency and interactions abroad. In the UAE, we have been active looking at the markets in Central Asia and UAE and Western Asia. So we should be able to manage a profit, which will be commensurate with our performances in other fields. And Jakson Green is also -- I mean, they have professionals who have been dealing with this may not be with this company, but they have been -- so this JV has a synergy, and we'll be able to do well.

[Operator]

Due to the time constraint, we will take last question from Smita from Kredent InfoEdge.

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

Am I audible?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. You are audible.

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

Yes. So I wanted to ask one question, sir. The bidding orders that you are executing or you are bidding for, out of that, what percentage would you say that you are able to get it in bidding out of the total orders that you are bidding for?

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. So the first project which we got through the bidding in the year 2021 in the month of October. So it is around 2 years and 4 months. So it is altogether a new field. But over a period of 2 years and a few months, we have bagged around INR 33,000 crores, INR 34,000 crores of order book. What we perceive is that in time to come, we are going to have more and more orders through the bidding and this nomination projects will get diminished over a period of next 3 years, next 3 to 4 years. So your question again, could you repeat the question? What exactly was your question?

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

Yes. My question was, sir, that out of the total bidding that you made in a year, what is the percentage of bid orders that you receive on your bidding?

[Unknown Executive]

Success rate is around 24%.

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

24%?

[Unknown Executive]

24%, 25%.

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

Okay. And sir, because of this, is the -- was the revenue of this quarter and profitability of this quarter down? Or is it something other than that?

[Unknown Executive]

See, these are the basically margins of the projects which we had got on the nomination basis and their margin vary from 5.5% to 6%. So this quarter also, it was around 5.6%...

[Unknown Executive]

5.6%.

[Unknown Executive]

So basically, there is very small dip. And -- but if you see the cumulative figure in terms of the PAT or in terms of the PBT, it is all-time high.

[Unknown Executive]

And the dip is also lower because -- a little bit because as you -- as Director Operations has mentioned so far, our Indore and other -- and the 2 older works have almost the same level of margin as the railway nominated works. And in other works which we have got gradually, most of it, we are in the commencement phase and early stages. So maybe -- and so in the next quarter and next half year. These 3 quarters, we will bounce back.

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

Which means Q4 a lot better than this quarter as well as last year?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. The margin in this quarter will be better than the current quarter and maybe even better than the last one.

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

Yes. But what about the revenue, sir? You said that you would be maintaining the revenue target the top line?

[Unknown Executive]

We'll be maintaining both the revenue targets and the margins. Margin will try to be a little up and turnover also may go higher. Then last year's INR 20,000 in H1 is also likely to be exceeded.

[Smita Mohta, analyst]

So sir, what kind of growth can we expect in the top line as well as the order book in next 2 to 3 years?

[Unknown Executive]

I said in the beginning that we want to maintain the order book, which is around 3 to 4x of the turnover. And the turnover, the optimal level is INR 20,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores. But the bottom line, we would like to grow. Presently, it is around -- last year, it was INR 1,267 crores. First 9 months, it is more than INR 1,000 crores. This year, we would like to have around INR 1,300 crores. And maybe next year, we would like to grow in the same pattern which we have been growing in the last 2, 3 years.

[Operator]

Thank you. That was the last question for the day. I now conclude the call. On behalf of Rail Vikas Nigam Limited, this concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.