Triveni Engineering and Industries Ltd

NSE:TRIVENI

Q1-2026 Earnings Call

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Triveni Engineering & Industries Limited Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishab Barar from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

[Rishab Barar]

Thank you. Good day, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you participating in the Triveni Engineering & Industries Q1 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us today Mr. Tarun Sawhney, Vice Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Suresh Taneja, Group CFO; Mr. Sameer Sinha, CEO of Sugar Business Group; Mr. Rajiv Rajpal, CEO, Power Transmission Business; as well as other members of the senior management team.

Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature, and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite, which was shared with everyone earlier. I would also like to emphasize that while this call is open to all invitees, it may not be broadcasted or reproduced in any form or manner. We will commence the call with opening remarks from the management following an interactive question-and-answer session. May I now hand it over to Mr. Tarun Sani. Over to you, sir.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Q1 fiscal '26 Earnings Conference Call for Triveni Engineering & Industries Limited. The key consolidated financial numbers for the quarter were the operations -- revenue from operations stood at INR 1,598 crores with a PBT of INR 2.9 crores and a PAT of INR 2.1 crores. The net turnover increased by 23%, which was supported by a 53% increase in alcohol dispatches and a 14% increase in the consolidated sugar dispatches as well as improved sugar realizations.

In the Power Transmission business, we reported a 15% increase in order booking and a record closing order book of INR 423 crores which has improved by 38% over the corresponding previous period. At an overall level, the closing order book of the engineering business stood a shade under INR 2,000 crores at INR 1,975 crores, up by 32% compared to the previous corresponding quarter. The debt position of the company on a stand-alone basis stood at INR 1,385 crores versus INR 1,150 crores on the 30th of June '24. The stand-alone debt for the period under review comprises of term loans of INR 320 crores, of which INR 180 crores are with interest subvention. And on a consolidated basis, our gross debt is INR 1,688 crores compared to INR 1,280 crores on the 30th of June '24. The overall cost of funds has been very manageable and stands at 7.3% at the end of this previous quarter versus 7.1% in the previous corresponding period.

However, I'm happy to share that from the future perspective over the next few quarters, we will be -- because of our debt rating, we will be able to see a decline in our cost of funds, especially when we need it the most. And so that is the expectation from our balance sheet position going forward over the next few quarters. I'd like to take some time to do a business-wise review.

Turning to our Sugar business. The growth in sugar turnover was on the back of a 14% increase in volumes that included the subsidiary Sir Shadi lal and a 4% improvement in realizations. The segment profit despite higher volume and realization declined 80% due to a INR 7.6 crores -- sorry, declined by 80% to INR 27.6 crores, and this was due to higher cost of production of sugar sold in Q1 fiscal '26, which could not be offset by the increased sugar price realization. The cost of sugar sold during the quarter pertains to the sugar season '24-'25 and was impacted by the gross lower recovery. So in a nutshell, the recoveries for the group were 69 basis points lower than the previous season, and that had a direct impact on the cost of production and is the most significant contributing factor for the increased cost of production.

With respect to the comment that I made about sugar price realizations at the beginning of the last quarter, Q1, we did see higher sugar realizations that were in excess of INR 40. However, as the quarter went on, prices did decline as there's been a kind of a difference in terms of the demand of sugar across the nation this year, especially during the hotter summer months. And as a result, the prices fell even during the month of May and June, slightly below INR 40, INR 39.50, INR 39.60. And so that, of course, was unexpected during the quarter.

When I talk about the future, I'll bring you up to date with what we experience right now, but there has been a change in that position, of course, with great support of the DFPD. The sugar inventory on the 30th of June '25 stood at 44.5 lakh quintals valued at INR 37.4 per kilo. And the current exMilL domestic prices for refined sugar are INR 41.2 and sulfitation is about INR 50 lower per kilo -- INR 50 to INR 60 lower per kilo. But that, of course, is higher than even the start of prices in April 2026 at the beginning of the last quarter or just a shade higher. And it is because of the lower quota that has been announced by the government, approximately 10% lower when one compares year-on-year has been the reduction in the quota that's been announced by DSPD, having a direct bearing on price.

And again, this is in reference to the comments that I made in the past as well. It is a regulated sector, but I can -- I repeat that there is a huge amount of control that can be exercised by the department, which has a positive impact on sugar prices. And the recognition that sugar prices have to be above a certain level, I think, is a very welcome policy initiative by the DSP.

Looking at the industry scenario, the sugar balance sheet, with an opening stock on the 1st of October '25 of just under 6 million tonnes, we produced 33 million tonnes and domestic sales were around 28.5 million tonnes. So we're expecting the closing stock of just about 7 million tonnes of sugar. And this is after considering about 4 million tonnes of sugar being diverted into ethanol. And these are, of course, our Triveni estimates.

Going forward, I think because of this slightly higher closing stock when compared to last year, despite the export that has happened over the course of this sugar season, we have seen that little softness that happened in May and June, primarily looking at the inventory balance, the balance sheet of the nation as well as the crop that lies ahead for the next year, which I will cover in a little more detail when I look at our projections for the year ahead.

From an international basis, the global balance sheet pointing to a deficit. As per the latest S&P Global and other balance sheets, we're looking at a deficit of about 4.6 million tonnes. However, for the '25, '26 sugar season, the outlook looks largely balanced. Actually, it looks towards a slight surplus of about 2.9 million tonnes of sugar. This is primarily due to better crops in 3 very important countries, Brazil, India and Thailand for the upcoming season. International sugar prices have been on a declining trend since January '25, whereas they had turned bullish in January and February.

And in our last conversation, I had talked about our sale of our export quota, which was done at very handsome prices and booked in Q4 of the last fiscal year. But since the prices have declined and consequently, I believe that the 1 million tonnes of exports that was anticipated and expected by the FPD will not happen in its entirety as some people in the trade may have taken positions that have turned against them. It is unfortunate because it would have helped lower the balance sheet of the country by a couple of hundred thousand tonnes of sugar and every reduction is important. But that is sugar that will remain unexported according to our estimates. Turning quickly to the alcohol business. We achieved our highest quarterly production of 6.5 crore litres, driven by the full quarterly impact of the new distillery at Raninasal.

And therefore, if you do a simple multiplication, it is very much in line with the overall estimates that one has been giving of our capacities and our production capabilities going forward. The sales volume for the quarter stood at 6.2 crore litres, an increase of 53% over the previous year. The average realization for Q1 is lower, and this is due to ethanol produced from FCI rice, which accounted for 27% of our total alcohol sales. I want to pause over here and provide an explanation for this.

Now when we entered the tenders at that particular point in time, the price for maize was about INR 26, INR 26 plus actually, closer to INR 26.5. And at that point in time, the relative contribution from fixed price FCI rice seemed more attractive from an operating perspective and to keep the distilleries operational. And therefore, we did go ahead with that. Now there has been a change in stance by MOPNG, et cetera, where they have not allowed the fungibility of feedstocks from one to the other. maize, of course, being at a higher price and MOPNG trying to control the price of ethanol, the procurement price of ethanol. And unfortunately, that meant that people settled with quantities of rice, which needed to be processed at lower levels or the lowest levels of contribution as maize prices declined over Q1 of this fiscal year.

However, going forward, we, of course, we were procuring a lot more maize and the price of maize has fallen even further. So from the lofty levels of INR 26, INR 26.5, our buying average for the last quarter was approximately INR 23-odd, slightly lower, and it will fall even further by over INR 1 per kilo when we look at the prices going forward. The profitability, as I mentioned, was impacted by that. It was also impacted by an increase in the internal transfer price of C-heavy molasses and some increase in fuel expenses. Ethanol constituted 92% of alcohol sales in Q1 '56 compared to 91% in the previous corresponding quarter. I think it's important for us to dwell on the outlook of the sugar business.

The monsoons have been very encouraging in -- across North India and in the state of Uttar Pradesh, and they bode very well for the agricultural sector. So at the Board meeting, which concluded yesterday, the Board actually very closely considered the rainfalls that has happened thus far and the incidence of best and disease, which are all with well below permissible limit thus far. It is very encouraging at this particular point in time. However, I will caveat it and say that the rains in August and September in the past 2 years are the ones that have particularly played spot with the sugar season. So we're keenly anticipating that Skynet and the forecasting data that we have points towards very regular and normal rainfall over the next couple of months, which is which is very positive. However, that is still a prediction, and it will be a very important parameter in terms of the health of the crop.

The health so far is actually quite excellent, both in terms of yield and in terms of the sugar content formation that has happened over this -- over the last few months. So at this particular point in time, all 8 sugar factories are actually looking pretty good with a slight increase in cane area as well for our sugar factories area under cane. We continue to make some judicious investments in our facilities to enhance our crush rate and with a particular emphasis on efficiencies. I think there has been a particular onus in terms of improving our steam economies at our sugar factories, which will result in higher bag gas savings, which will be sold at fairly lucrative prices in the market. The prices have been pretty good over the last couple of years. And so our focus in this off-season on really single-handedly reducing steam economies should result in higher bag gas savings, which will be sold over the winter months during this fiscal year and on the next sugar year.

We believe that a continuously increasing portfolio of refined sugar and pharmaceutical sugar, which is about 73% of our overall portfolio, augurs well for realizations of the company. Yes, we do have a lot of important clients that buy plantation white sugar. And so there will be a cap in terms of how much refined sugar the company can produce, but it does very well. The quantum of institutional customers has increased over the last couple of quarters, and there is a concerted effort as well from a realization perspective. And if you compare our realizations, I think we've actually done rather well in terms of our sugar sales and the absolute numbers in terms of value of sugar sales. And that is directly related to an increased amount of institutional customers that we have on a repeatable basis.

With respect to the alcohol business, the outlook, the focus really is on improving the sugarcane crush, which will help improve the molasses availability and address some supply chain -- improve the molasses availability for the upcoming season.

With respect to grain, I think there is concerted and substantial efforts in terms of addressing and improving supply chain issues. So in terms of procurement and in terms of storage of grain, especially maize to ensure that we do a much better job. It has been a learning process. This would be the third year that we're processing maize. And so I think we've got a great amount of competence in terms of how we procure it, how we transport it, how we store it. And I think that will factor into the yields when we look ahead and as we get this maize crop processed.

We're also hopeful that the government will address the feedstock and profitability challenges in the various feedstocks. And we hope that the government will remain committed to the EPP program. And as I say that, I attended a conference last week where an important cabinet minister made a public statement in his speech saying that the government was looking at announcing 27% in a graduated manner for ethanol trending. My own personal view on this is that we will graduate potentially based on new BIS standards because the BIS standards are very important. And as the BIS standards, I understand will come out for 22%, 25% and 27%. That will be the graduation in terms of the total quantum. This augurs very, very well for the sector.

I also believe that E85, which has been launched across 400 petrol pumps across the nation, will offer another substantial alternative for other ethanol production across the country. So you're looking at 1,000 crore litres being absorbed this year and with the maximum of what I've talked about could be well ahead of double that quantity in the coming few years. Of course, not all of that will be produced, so one will see an investment in additional distillation capacity across the country.

Turning to the outlook of our Power Transmission business. The economic growth is really very, very, very positive. And we're seeing sectoral-based investments and in manufacturing across India and across certain economies around the world. The company is venturing into new products and has received encouraging results for these products. And for example, it would be in terms of compression gearbox technologies, looking at new developments, new research projects and commissioning new products that will be in the marketplace and will hopefully add to the entire basket and addressable market segment for the company. The international market continues to be a key thrust area. Our quality leadership in the domestic market has paved the way for many overseas customers to qualify Triveni for steam turbine pump and compressor gearboxes.

Our acceptability in the overseas market has risen because of continuous marketing efforts and an opening of a European sales office in Switzerland. And also, of course, as a result, the recent enlistment on ABLs, which are known as approved vendor lists of certain OEMs as well as third parties. In the Defence segment, we've received -- recently completed the order for gearboxes for fast patrol vessels of in Coast Guard, and we've secured more orders for gearboxes. I think that bodes very, very well because we'll be the only company in the country that actually makes -- that have complete technology for marine gearboxes within India. In addition, we're also working and continue to work on more products such as stabilizations and expand our service offering in propulsion shafting technologies.

Looking at the water business outlook, the business anticipates good business opportunities and funding is expected to flow from both state and central governments. Due to the gap of demand and supply of water and wastewater treatment plants, the water sector has recently actually started to receive a lot of positive outlook. And there have been a lot of significant opportunities that have cropped up in Q1 in terms of inquiries, et cetera, that will hopefully fructify into actual commercial bids.

The new opportunities are exactly on the same lines that I talked to you in the past, which includes recycle, reuse, sorry, ZLD as well as EPC on HAM models. Swage recycling is a new area of business. And wherever there are industries and off-takers for buying treated sewage, this model should emerge as a successful -- a quite successful model in the future. And we're also targeting some foreign projects, and we continue to do that, and I've spoken about that in the past as well. At an overall level, the company has implemented a series of strategic initiatives over the last few months, much, much more so than the past. We've recognized the fall in recoveries that we've had in our sugar business. And as a consequence, that has impacted our quarterly performance. And really, our targeted focus on improving that.

Now a lot of the performance as far as sugar is concerned was -- you see sugarcane is a 2-year crop cycle. So if you had red rock in 1 year and the plant came or whatever was converted into the would give you a poor result, both in terms of yield and recovery. Now a lot of that cycle, that 2-year cycle is over. And so the anticipation for the next year is actually wholly different from the season that we've had, both in terms of productivity as well as in terms of anticipated recovery. Internally, we're looking at 3 years ago as a benchmark, the weather patterns as well 3 years ago, which is a very positive year. And we're hoping that the weather plays -- weather pest disease plays -- doesn't play spoil sport over the next 3 months before the start of the sugar season, which we anticipate, frankly speaking, just after Diwali. So Diwali actually is a little bit earlier. It is on the 20th of October, very early this year. And so soon after that, we anticipate that Voda West to be will start its operations.

Regarding the proposed scheme, I think it's important to just close out my opening remarks with a few comments on that. amalgamation with Sir Shadi lal and the demerger of the Power Transmission business. We are still awaiting regulatory approvals. We're following up continuously with SEBI. We've received some in course and regular questions from the stock exchanges, which have been answered to our knowledge, they will meet the satisfaction, and we are hoping that we will get that permission very, very soon.

In terms of what that means in terms of progress, I think we could broadly speaking, be on time. If anything, it could add another 30-odd days. But broadly speaking, as I mentioned, we're still anticipating Q1 of the next fiscal year, and I think we're still very much in line with that. With that, I'd like to pass on -- I'd like to close my opening remarks and open up the question-and-answer session.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The question is from [indiscernible] from Asset Managers.

[Unknown Analyst]

I have a couple of questions. First on the power side. The PTP order book has grown strongly, especially with the export traction. So how much of the INR 42 crore order book you expect to convert into revenue in FY '26? And do you see margins improving in the heavy mix going?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

I'm sorry, the second part of your question was inaudible. You'll have to speak a little slower and louder, please.

[Unknown Analyst]

[indiscernible]

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

I lost the first one about what is executable in this year. What was the second part of your question?

[Unknown Analyst]

Second part of my question is, do you see any margins improvement in the export mix going forward?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Right. Okay. So -- of the -- we crossed the INR 400 crore milestone. We stand at INR 423 crores. The long-duration orders in this are INR 182 crores. So the balance, the simple subtraction of that would be orders that are executable this year. It would also -- the typical order to delivery is about 6-odd months. It could be a little bit less depending if it's an aftermarket order, et cetera. So we still expect a substantial amount of book and bill to happen in this fiscal year to allow us to meet the budgeted numbers we have internally for this business. And as I mentioned that our growth rate stands unabated. A lot of -- we had an increase in finished goods at the end of this quarter as some of our customers expected us, including defense orders expected us to push out delivery into Q2 and towards the end of Q2 as well.

So we're anticipating that Q2, Q3 and Q4 will certainly make up for the limited growth that we had in Q1. But the business is looking very, very promising. In terms of your question regarding the margin profile of the business, I want to add 2 very important things. We have grown the business. The company has invested quite substantially in the business. So it depends on where you're looking at what type of margins you're looking at. Depreciation obviously will be higher because there has been a lot of capital investment into this business. In addition, we've also hired a lot of people, not just to train up for immediate growth, but for the future growth as well. So there is a slightly higher HR cost.

That does not, by any means, mean that we are looking at margin dilution. But in terms of growth of margins, it will take some time over the course of this year for that growth to come into fruition as we get more orders and deliver more orders into export markets where we're traditionally expecting slightly higher OEM margins.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. On the second question is around the maize prices. So you have mentioned a correction in maize price benefiting margins. So apart from raw material cost, what other levers of cost optimization are you working on business in FY’26.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes, excellent question. Very, very good question. So there are -- let's talk about supply chain and then I'll talk about operations separately. From a supply chain perspective, you have to purchase maize and then you have to store maize. Maize like any other crop comes with small amounts of fungus, et cetera, and other impurities. So the first fundamental process is to improve the supply chain by dual testing, point of loading, point of acceptance as well. The second thing is the keeping quality. And I think there's been a lot of work, and we've worked with other firms as well to improve that keeping quality to add ventilation, et cetera, to ensure that there is no buildup. And so that the starch content in maize does not change significantly at all over a period of time. So that is a very important step in terms of the keeping quality and the procurement strategies as far as maize is concerned.

The second is with respect to operations. I think our cost of fuel and our cost of -- is an important contributor to our cost of production at our distilleries, especially our stand-alone distilleries. And therein, we are doing a lot of effort, and we'll continue to. Some of it will happen now. Some of it will require some small CapEx, not, but some tinkering CapEx will be required to further improve our steam economies, which will allow us to then reduce our secondary fuel, which is the gas, which is very expensive because the gas during the season is INR 2200-INR 2,500 per tonne approximately during the season. But in the off-season, it increases by a good 20%, 25% from that point, maybe 50%. So you don't want that. You want to store the maximum amount. We're doing work in terms of raising the quantum of the gas that the sugar factories will also have. So all of that is sort of tied in and will result in better operating results when we enter into the next supply.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. And sir, last question is around like from my understanding, could you provide a time line update on the composite of arrangement with SSE and PTB?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes, I just addressed that. That was my last comment before I opened up Q&A. We stand unchanged and our perspective is that it will happen in Q1 of the next calendar year, Q4 of this fiscal year.

[Operator]

Next question is from Sudan Padmanabhan from ASK Private Wealth.

[Sudarshan Padmanabhan, analyst]

[Technical difficulty] Sir, my question is to understand a bit more on the cost structure in the first quarter. Now historically, when we look at the off-season expenses, how it has been apportioned, it is usually the second quarter that takes a brunt of the overall impact as far as profitability is concerned. I mean, just to understand, I mean, going by your commentary, whether the entire drop in the sugar business is primarily on account of lower gross spreads, as we call it? Or is there a departure? Or is there a little bit change in the way the off-season expenses that has basically been booked in this quarter?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes. Let me explain it. Number one, let me confirm that there is no change in the practice at all in this quarter. Whatever we have been doing in the past, the same is consistently being followed. Now in Q1, there is some part of the previous season, which extends into Q1. And after it finishes in the month of April or early May, thereafter the off-season starts. So as per the accounting policy of the company, all costs relating to off-season are expensed out in that quarter itself. So it subsequently forms a part of the cost of production of the next season. So therefore, there is no change. But obviously, the share of the off-season cost in Q2 is more than Q1.

[Sudarshan Padmanabhan, analyst]

Sure, sure. So that basically will continue into the second quarter. And probably the only thing that would change in the profitability, if at all is if the sugar realization continues to be over 41, then probably the spreads would be on a higher side. Would that be right?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes. So therefore, if you look at the pattern, because of such accounting, the profitability of Q3 and Q4 is substantially higher. So our average realization for Q1 stood at 40.4% on a consolidated basis. Sugar prices already in the month of July were approximately that. August is pointing substantially better than what this average is. And as we go into September, that will increase because you have an early Diwali. So a lot of the buying for Diwali is going to actually happen in September. And so I anticipate that you will see -- you haven't asked the question, but my view is that sugar prices are on a small gradual uptrend as they typically are at this time of the year. Festival season is earlier.

[Sudarshan Padmanabhan, analyst]

Sure. And the cost of the cane would more or less be similar at 37.5 of inventory, right?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

That's what you had kind of point. Absolutely. Of course, that sugar is produced...

[Sudarshan Padmanabhan, analyst]

Sure, sure. So definitely, the spread should be higher. So that's good news. Sir, coming to the ethanol side, I mean, it was heartening to see the volume increase in ethanol. But coming to the FCA grain is the entire cost of the impact of FCA rise has been taken in this quarter? Because I'm looking at it from the point of view that if the volume continues and this baggage is kind of behind us, then the profitability of ethanol will be substantially higher.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

No. So excellent, very good question. And I think this is a strategic decision that we've taken that has not proved right. I want to recognize that we took that decision at a point in time looking at base prices, but it has not panned out well for us. And it accounted for 27% of our volumes for the last quarter. For Q2 production, it will be less than half that. So it is not over, but it will be less than half Less than half of what was supplied. So 27% was supplied. I would say it will be -- we're trying to minimize it as much as possible. Worst case scenario, it will be 13%, 13.5%. -- best case scenario, it will be even lower than that.

[Sudarshan Padmanabhan, analyst]

Sure, sure, sir. And one final question before I join back the queue is today, I mean, when I look at on a year-on-year basis, I mean, we had an easier base as far as ethanol blending is concerned, where I think around the blending was around 14%. But when I'm tracking the monthly blending, I think already the blending is close to 20% -- now what is it that the government has going forward from here in terms of rate of change, in terms of ethanol blending program? How is it going to translate into growth going forward from here on?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Okay. Great question. And I'm going to just refer to a conference that I was -- important conference convention that I was a part of last week, where we had one of the most senior cabinet ministers who gave a very long speech. He was a Sugar Technologist conference, but a very long speech about the future of ethanol and his perspectives on that. So we announced publicly that 27% blending has been approved. It is my understanding that BIS is expected to come out with standards for 22% blending, 25% blending, approximately 25%, 27% blending. It may be divided into 4, not 3, but that is effectively going to be the graduation in increase in ethanol blending for -- for the EBP program.

Now with that being announced, I think parliament is on right now. So I imagine that, that would have to conclude -- will have to conclude. And then this decision will be announced by the cabinet or rather by MOPNG officially. But I expect that, that is pretty much set in stone. In addition, we also have the possibility of E85 they have the possibility of E85, the number of petrol pumps being 400. And again, the Road Transport Minister has clearly said that he is looking for a factor increase in that. In fact, the minister was quoted in this morning's papers about 27% blending by the end of August being announced by the end of August. So yes, that is very much in line with the end of the monsoon session and or rather just post the monsoon session. So I see a graduation and a huge volume buildup.

Now you may ask what happens to the automobiles, et cetera, because all of these discussions have taken place. And it is my understanding that 25% blending is easily possible without any change in engine technology for 2-wheelers and 4-wheelers whatsoever. So there is nothing that needs to change between now and 25%. I think there is still a lot of consideration between what happens between '25 and '27. And I think we will learn a lot from Brazil. But that is still about a year or 2 away to get to '27 because you need to have that kind of production in the country. But it's very, very positive that this is the step that is being taken towards E85 as well as towards E27.

The other thing, of course, is that the minister has also announced that most of the large automobile manufacturers are coming out with flex fuel cars that will be available for the Indian public. So again, it's creating that sort of harmonious ecosystem, not just for supply but also for demand for the EPP program.

[Operator]

Next question is from Shailesh Kanani from Centrum Broking.

[Shailesh Kanani, analyst]

Sir, the first question is on the margin front. So we have seen margin pressure for some time now across segments. I understand for sugar, we are having issues of 0238 with compression of yields. But just from your perspective, when do you expect the margins what we enjoyed in '22, '23, '24 coming back to our businesses?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

So let's talk about which business because we have our engineering business, we have our distillery business and we have our sugar business.

[Shailesh Kanani, analyst]

So predominantly, margin compression has been in distillery and sugar. So if you can highlight that, Engineering is one-off that this quarter, I assume.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Sure. Engineering has improved since then. So that we don't have to worry about. Yes. With respect to the distillery and with respect to the sugar business, let me start with the one that has been affected the most, which is the distillery business. I think that the worst is behind us. And I think as far as the distillery business is concerned, because of what I've talked about, I won't repeat everything that I've said. It will be on the con call transcript, which will be on our website also. I've just talked about what we're doing to improve our margins, both in terms of COP as well as -- well, we can't do anything about sale price. It's all about COP, be it operating strategies, be it supply chain strategies to help improve our margin structures, et cetera, that is all in place, and that will come very soon in the next ethanol supply year. And even before that, as we try and -- as the rise that I've spoken about will reduce even in Q2, et cetera. And so you will see a natural bump up.

Now a return to the type of margins that existed in '22, '23, that is about billion dollar question. But I think that if the government -- and this is the way that you have to look at it, if the government is announcing 27% ethanol blending, the only way you get to ethanol blending of 27% as well as the -- as E85 petrol pumps, is if more distilleries are established across the country, regardless of feedstock, be it sugarcane stream or be it grain stream. For that to happen, you have to have better margins so that entrepreneurs actually spend money in this sector. That will, of course, help not only those who have existing capacities, but also invite people to come in and set up capacity.

Now the government announcing the 27% as the Honorable Road Transport Minister has done in the papers today, I think that bodes very well. So I can't give you a time line. I can't even definitively say that we will touch that. But I certainly see margin improvement happening because of better pricing policies because the nation needs more ethanol production. Now with respect to the sugar business, I think that's the second part of your question, that is not a billion-dollar question. That is something that is a very real question that we have tackled right now. The replacement of 238 in low-lying areas is, by and large, the vast majority of it is done, okay? It still exists in higher areas across our factories. And yes, we will continuously reduce that, but that the tearing hurry and urgency is slightly less. You can manage it a little bit with better seed treatment, with better pesticides and fertilizer dosage, et cetera, et cetera. And so you will see that fast improvement happening from this sugar season onwards.

Now to get back to that margin, it's twofold. One is to look at your cost of production. Your cost of production will improve if your recovery improves. We're expecting the recovery to improve. Will we touch the same recoveries as '23, '24? I think it will take some time. That was a golden period. The variety was in its absolute prime. The prime variety is no longer in its absolute prime, and we don't have a variety that can replace it and give the same kind of results. There is a lot of work being done. But as of today, there isn't a magic solution there. But yes, we can improve -- we can make a lot of improvements in terms of more yields and therefore, better capacity utilization, and you can try and approach the element of cost of production through other ways and not just recovery because there are other constituents of that as well. And that is what we at Triveni are doing in the coming season and beyond that in terms of lowering our cost of production. The next quantum is in terms of sugar pricing.

Now with while FRP doesn't affect us in Uttar Pradesh, the FRP has gone up a lot. And the sugar price has not kept up. And I think there is a deep realization in the government that if we have to have enough cane for the ethanol blending program and we have to have enough cane for consumption and the balance can be exported, then we need to have sugar prices that are commensurate or sugar prices increases that are commensurate. So you've seen the government, of course, let me give you an example.

The quota that was given by DFPD of 2.2 -- sorry, yes, 2.25 million tonnes for the month of August is a reduction of 200,000 tonnes over the previous corresponding month of the previous year. That's a very significant reduction in a high consumption month. And it is really to ensure that sugar prices follow the right trend so that we don't have a problem in the next year.

[Shailesh Kanani, analyst]

Fair enough. So that is helpful. Sir, just one follow-up on that. What is the 023 exposure this year versus last year?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

40%. It is presently under 40% versus close to 55% the previous year.

[Shailesh Kanani, analyst]

And our plan is to bring it below 25%, I guess, last time when we discussed, right?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

That's right. While we plan to bring it down, we are, at the same time, doing a very rigorous wellness program to extend the life of the remaining 25% also.

[Shailesh Kanani, analyst]

Okay. Sir, my second question is on capital allocation. We have been investing in our water division, and we have kind of spoken in the past many times about the opportunities over there. I think our capital employed is somewhere more than INR 600 crores over there. How do we see this division in terms of return profile? When do we expect 12% to 15% ROE, ROCE numbers? Because currently, it is less than double digit, right? So how -- by when we expect this return profile to come?

[Unknown Executive]

Number one, in the case of water business, we have not made any CapEx in that particular business because no CapEx is required. So we basically carry out an asset-light business model according to which most of the manufacturing is outsourced. This is number one. And number two, there is a working capital requirement, which is definitely there in this business. And that basically depends from project to project depending upon what the billing milestones, et cetera, are. But by and large, you quoted a figure of INR 2,600 crores or something. That figure is also...

[Shailesh Kanani, analyst]

60 crores Segment assets INR 600 crores, more than INR 600 crores.

[Unknown Executive]

Yes, yes. So basically, I think reasonable return actually depends -- like the way Tarun just said that we are looking at the projects overseas abroad, et cetera. The very purpose over there is, number one, so that over there, it enables you to complete the project in a timely manner so that you are able to collect your money, come back and you get a good return. So idea over there is to pick and choose good projects where the returns are good. So this is the direction we are proceeding.

[Operator]

Next question is from Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

So my first question is what is the cane crush for the sugar season '24, '25 and the gross recovery for the year?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Crush sugar season, it is 819 lakh quintals and the gross recovery, which is the see-equivalent recovery is 10.8%.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

And how does the gross recovery compared to the gross recovery 2 years ago? How is it -- how much has it declined, the gross recovery in the last 2 years?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

So the previous year, it was 11.49% and the year prior to that was also in the same range.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

So 11.5% was the peak, and now we are at 10.8%.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

No. Prior to that, we have gone up to 11.97% on this basis. That was when we had a starting in a couple of our factories.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

So gross recovery at 10.8%, you think there is no downside now and this can recover by say, 20, 30 basis points this year as a realistic assumption?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Well, I don't give forward-looking estimates, but you can sort of try and calculate what the impact of rain was that was unprecedented last year as well as the impact of disease. The impact of disease was higher than the impact of rain. I would certainly think that all going well, if there is no untoward change, then we will certainly see a significant improvement in terms of sugarcane recoveries and crush. And crush.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

So basically, the area under cultivation also you guided that there's been some improvement for this season.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

The area under cultivation has increased somewhat year-on-year. We've already done the surveys. So there has been an increase, low single-digit percentage, but that's still quite a lot. And that if you factor into better yields means that the cane availability, of course, could be better. And that is the hope, of course. And I keep giving this caveat whether and best and disease permitting.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

Right, sir. Secondly, sir, on the alcohol policy, I mean, how should we take this FCI rice policy? Because last quarter, when you had done the con call, you had said that you'll be using maize and suddenly, we find this quarter that we used 27% FCI rise. This kind of a flip flop is giving us a kind of wrong direction in terms of what the company is really doing on its procurement. And since we were expecting that the maize will be a substantial figure this quarter, there was a disappointment in terms of the kind of feedstock that you used. So will this be a continuing thing? Or will this stabilize somewhere? And I mean, can we see some kind of a constant grain use, which can actually be more -- give more steadiness to our earnings?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes. Okay. So no, you're very right. I think I don't quite recollect what I had said. But I think when I spoke to you in May, at the very end of May, maize prices had declined a lot. So that comment was relevant at that particular point in time that this procurement strategy was going hammer and pounds in terms of maize procurement because the maize procurement price dropped from INR 26.5. At that point, it was... 23. Now at that particular point in time, we had already bid for FCI rice. The FCI rice bid was done when FCI was -- when rice was opened up for us or rather for ethanol blending much earlier. And at that particular point in time, prices prevailing for maize was substantially higher, which was the rationale for it.

Now you're absolutely right. It did turn out to be a poor decision. And since we don't give you the actual blend of which grain we are using at what particular point in time, this has come as a little bit of a shock to you. One fully appreciates that. I think in terms of clarity, for the foreseeable future, we're not certainly not going to be taking in any FCI rice given where the price of ethanol derived from FCI rice and the price of FCI rice given -- and I find it actually quite surprising that the price is what it is because we have so much of it in the country. And I think the point is well taken. We'll provide you more clarity in terms of what grain stocks we will be consuming in which quarter so that you can work out the margin structure.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

Yes. And my next question is on the CapEx in the -- in Mysore. So how much of the CapEx is already done and how much is pending and whether the defense bay will be commissioned this year?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes, excellent question. So I'll -- the vast majority of the CapEx has been committed, and it will all be executed on time as one is forecast within this fiscal year. The tune of that is about INR 150-odd crores for this year, which is the total amount pending. Now with reference to the defense base, there are 2 aspects. There's the office block and the planning of that and there's the manufacturing facility. We are very hopeful that within this calendar year, the manufacturing facility will be operable. And so the machines will be in place and production will start within this year. So it's on track with what I had mentioned in the last conference call. The office block will be complete a few months later because we've devoted all of our energies in terms of getting the productive asset to be operable, but people can commute from the other facility with respect to any office work, et cetera.

[Rajesh Majumdar, analyst]

Yes. Yes. Sir, if I could sneak in a last question. Although you've been sounding optimistic on the ethanol blending going at 27% extra, there's also a negative sentiment coming in from India's ongoing trade negotiations with the U.S. to ease the restrictions on ethanol imports. While that may be debatable, then you may have a different point of view. I was just wondering as a company, post demerger, do we have any thoughts on the sugar alcohol business beyond ethanol where we can see some kind of growth areas other than ethanol, if you have thought about any.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

So you asked 2 questions. I'll answer both. With respect to the ongoing trade policies, the industry associations have written to the government. We too have written to the government and said that we would like to see maize imports if possible. Now even if it is GMO maize, the DDGS from that, it is actually -- it was being considered that the GMO is going to be non-GMO. But frankly speaking, talking to the poultry associations, et cetera, they're very happy to buy that DDGS. So if we can import DDGS maize at competitive rates, it will allow us then to have more utilization of our plants and perhaps even some more plants to be set up across the country. So I don't see that as a negative unless you have direct ethanol imports.

If you have direct ethanol imports, it's a competing product. That is a bit of a pickle. I don't see that happening so easily at all. And I think that the -- from what I'm hearing and understanding, it is the maize imports -- direct maize imports that could possibly happen. They -- the government is trying to work out the modalities of GMO, which, as you know, in India is a very ticklish subject. Now with respect to Triveni, after the demerger, looking at other things, we have some time for that demerger to happen, yet the thought process has been -- is on and the Board is going to conduct workshops, et cetera, and evaluate a series of different options. I don't have anything concrete to share with you right now, just that the intent is certainly there to look at all available options that are in front of us today because, yes, we do have good cash flows from the business that are investable. And we have to do something to regain as the previous person mentioned the margin structures that we had in '22, '23.

[Operator]

The next question is from Abhishek Jain from Monarch...

[Unknown Analyst]

Sir, just wanted to know that the CapEx in the gear business that we have been doing to take the capacity to INR 700 crore turnover and which is supposed to complete by September 2026. How is the progress on that? And is it on time? Can you just give a little bit more color on that?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Sure. I'll just answer that question. I had partially answered it earlier as well. But in response to the previous gentleman who asked a question in terms of diversification, I had forgotten to add our Alco beam business, which has actually grown. The counter business is profitable and is growing quite substantially, very good double-digit growth, and we'll continue to see that growth, profitable growth. As far as the IMFL business is concerned, that is in an incubation stage. It will take a couple of years before it starts throwing out some profitability. But it is a business that is really a sunrise business as far as India is concerned, as far as the new generation of Indians is concerned.

So there have been moves in terms of diversification. They're small right now, but they certainly have large prospects for the future. Now I'm sorry, I answered somebody else's question when you asked the question. Let me return to PTB.

As I had mentioned, our CapEx is very much underway, and it is being completed as per the track that one had mentioned and as you've mentioned. So the production capability is pretty much in space. It doesn't mean that it gives us the capacity -- our full capacity utilization will be a higher amount. It doesn't mean that we achieve it straight up, but it will certainly be in place on time. We're already -- a lot of the machines are already in place and our productive assets as we speak.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes. So sir, just clarifying. So you had earlier mentioned that defense will be commissioned within this year, but also the gear CapEx expansion to INR 700 crore capacity on time till September '26, right?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It doesn't mean that we're going to be producing INR 700 crores. It means the capacity is.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes, of course. Yes, sure. And sir, on this defense capacity, since it will be commissioned, can you now provide some guidance on how that ramp-up will be there in FY '27 and '28? What is the line of sight in revenues from that multimodal capacity?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

It's really a start-up business. So to provide line of sight of revenues, and it's a business that is famous for delays in terms of orders. It's even -- in some respects, it's like our water business, okay, where you just don't know when the orders are going to be finalized, et cetera. So you know when you have bid for orders, but the actual opening and award is something that is totally out of your hands. And that is the peculiarity of that business. So with all due respect, I'm going to refrain at this point from providing any future guidance on that business.

[Operator]

Next question is from Nitin Awasthi from InCred Equities.

[Nitin Awasthi, analyst]

Actually, my first question, you have just answered a bit in that whole pie of IMFL and IMIL that you just spoke about, one extension to that was left, which I'll ask right now. Any movement you're going to make into the UPML market because of the new excise policy in UP?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

We have already started and introduced UPML brands from June of this year.

[Nitin Awasthi, analyst]

Okay. From June of this year, you have introduced them in both the segments?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

In one segment, in the other one, we are about to do.

[Nitin Awasthi, analyst]

Okay. So is it 28 you have introduced and 42 you'll be doing it in the future? Is that understanding correct?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes. So we have already done 28, we'll be doing 42. -- it could be happening this month itself.

[Nitin Awasthi, analyst]

Understood, sir. Also, our current machinery that we have post the last expansion that we did within the IMIL segment, that machinery itself is capable of handling almost the whole packaging of a UPML product also, right? Is that understanding also correct?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Yes, that is right. We have adequate machinery to handle both UPML and IIL.

[Nitin Awasthi, analyst]

The total capacity output at 100% would be 9 million cases?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

It would be – [indiscernible] 9 million.

[Nitin Awasthi, analyst]

Yes. Understood, sir. Sir, second question that I had was something interesting you spoke about earlier when a question was asked to you about how would you be increasing margins. You spoke about a cost component within which you specifically mentioned steam. Now steam for any grain distillation is a very heavy cost, the biggest cost after raw material cost. And of course, a lot of work is going on in this space. But would it be correct to understand, given the engineering excellence that your company holds, you will be able to make waves faster within this space? And is that some way where you're moving about? Like what is the current consumption per liter and which is the movement -- which way do you see it moving?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

So I'm not going to give you the consumption per liter because then I'm going to have to give it every quarter to be perfect. But I will say there are 2 things. Firstly, with respect -- there are things that are low-hanging fruit. And then as I had mentioned in an earlier comment, we have just completed a consulting exercise to look at what can we do with small investments, small capital investments to further improve the steam economies in the distillation. So reduce our power cost effectively. And that is something that -- so let's understand the low-hanging fruit you're going to see immediately, okay?

But in terms of the most significant and telling reductions that will then have a lasting impact on our profitability, you should also see that in the near future, but we will have to time it. Firstly, we have to consider everything, which we will do -- be doing immediately over the next couple of weeks. Then, of course, the timing of this is dependent on when you take those little shutdowns at the distillery. Because as you can imagine, you cannot do any welding work at a distillery that operates 24 hours a day because of the alcohol fumes, et cetera, the hazardous nature prevents you from doing that. So then we will have to look at what are our schedules, when will this equipment, the tag along equipment, the vessels, et cetera, that need to be potentially added be in place and post which we will have the reduction in that. But yes, you can certainly see this as a short-term measure over the next few quarters that we will be contemplating, not contemplated that we'll be executing.

[Operator]

Next question is from Maulik Choudhary from Monarch Networth Capital.

[Unknown Analyst]

I just have one bookkeeping question. So out of -- regarding power transmission business. So out of this long duration order of INR 182 crores, how much is related to defense?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

The largest pie is related to defense. I don't have the exact number. Actually, Rajiv is on the call. Rajiv, can you -- of the INR 182 crores, what percentage would be defense, what percentage would be gears, if you could answer that, please?

[Unknown Executive]

Roughly about 80% would be defense.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. And what is the order execution time line for this long duration orders?

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

So the gear orders will be executed in the next fiscal year, which is long term. The defense orders will be executed over the next 24 months... Sorry, 24 months.

[Operator]

We'll take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management team for closing comments.

[Tarun Sawhney, executive]

Right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us for our Q1 fiscal '26 results. I look forward to speaking to you in 3-odd months' time with hopefully much better news to share, both in terms of weather and in terms of performance of the various businesses, et cetera. This has been a relatively hard quarter. I think we've recognized that. We've really worked very hard, firstly, to recognize it and then to find improvements around all of this so that we can come back to the type of profitability that we had showcased in previous quarters. The company is fully committed to excellence in all of our businesses, et cetera. And I hope that you will be able to see that kind of result. very, very shortly. Thank you again for joining us on this call and speak to you in 3 months. Goodbye.

[Operator]

Thank you very much. On behalf of Triveni Engineering and Industries Limited, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen, you may now disconnect your lines.