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Good morning. My name is Tiffany, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Dundee Corporation Q3 2018 Conference Call and Webcast. [Operator Instructions] Mr. John Vincic, you may begin your conference
Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Dundee Corporation's 2018 Third Quarter Results Conference Call and Webcast. The company's financial results were issued last night and are available on our website at dundeecorporation.com. Before we get started, please be advised that the information discussed today is current as of September 30, 2018, unless otherwise indicated, and the comments made on today's call may contain forward-looking information. This information, by its nature, is subject to risks and uncertainties and as such, actual results may differ materially from the views and expectations expressed today. For further information on these forward-looking statements, please consult the company's relevant filings on SEDAR. Also, please be reminded that all currency amounts discussed on today's call are in Canadian dollars unless otherwise stated.Our presenters today are Jonathan Goodman, Dundee's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Robert Sellars, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. And now I'd like to turn the call over to Jonathan Goodman. Jonathan?
Thank you, John, and thanks to everyone for joining the call. The third quarter was one of the busiest at Dundee since I returned to the company earlier this year. We made progress on a number of files, both large and small, within our portfolio. And while we had less news flow during the quarter than we had hoped for, I am confident that we are on the verge of some positive news between now and when we next report.The challenges we face are complex and they require a lot of management time and effort. And in many cases, they require patience. For me and for many fellow shareholders, this is challenging. However, it is necessary so we can consider all the options before making important decisions affecting our largest holding. That said, I am cautiously optimistic that we'll have some positive things to announce between now and the next reporting segment. Now let me turn to a brief review of our operational highlights. Since day 1 on job, the repositioning of our portfolio has been my top priority. Today, we have a clear line of sight on the assets we believe will help drive longer-term value for Dundee and its shareholders. Dundee Precious Metals remains our largest investment, and we believe it is poised for a re-rating opportunity in 2019. I'll speak more about DPM in a few moments. Dundee Goodman Merchant Partners is a vehicle that we will use to leverage -- that we will leverage as we return to our roots as an investor in the resources sector. United Hydrocarbon International provides us with an attractive energy -- with attractive energy exposure and upside in a low-cost and low-risk manner. AgriMarine Holdings possesses world-class technology and has the potential to be a market leader. To achieve this goal, it require management oversight and capital. And Android Industries recently completed a capital injection that's being used to fund its next leg of growth. We expect to see a significant improvement in both operating and financial performance beginning in 2019 at Android.Q3 works in progress in the portfolio. Beyond the key holdings I discussed, the next level on our portfolio are those assets with turnaround potential. I'd like to call these our works in progress. At the top of this list and this group is the Parq Vancouver. As many of you know, Parq Vancouver is a world-class urban resort, anchored by a casino and 2 Marriott-branded hotels. And while its operational results since opening in September 2017 have been improving, its financial performance has been disappointing. This is a very frustrating situation, but we are actively seeking solutions to both improve both the capital and ownership structures at Parq. At the end of September, we took a positive step in this direction with the investment of $20 million by an established industry player. This is a validation of the potential that we see at Parq. More importantly, the capital provided some much-needed stability at a critical time in Parq's ramp-up. Dundee Sustainable Technologies has world-class technology for extracting metals and mineralizing materials, concentrates and tailings and while stabilizing contaminants such as arsenic. DST has important IP and patents and large players in the mining industry are starting to take notice of their capabilities. This is encouraging and we'll continue to support management as they advance this strategy. Inside our portfolio, the Canadian Securities Exchange has been a small success story. We recouped our initial investment in the CSE last quarter when we sold a portion of our holding. This is clearly -- there is clearly momentum in the CSE business as listings and trading activity both grow, it has established itself as a viable alternative to the TSX Venture Exchange by being more user-friendly. Today, it is the Exchange's choice for U.S. cannabis companies providing access to capital for a rapidly growing industry. We still hold a meaningful stake in the CSE and are excited by its future prospects. Existing portfolio positions. When I rejoined Dundee in January this year, our portfolio included nearly 100 companies. For a company of our size, that was clearly too much. Today our portfolio is significantly smaller and I expect it will shrink even more in the coming months. Businesses that do not fit our longer-term strategy will be sold. In some cases, we are in advanced discussions regarding potential transactions, and we hope to be making some formal announcement in the fourth quarter. In other cases, more time is needed. Regardless, I can assure that I've not been happy with the pace of activity, and we are doing all that we can to accelerate things in a prudent manner. As we exit positions, we'll continue to redeploy capital in a disciplined manner. This could be for either investment in existing or new businesses or to continue to solidify our balance sheet.Now let me take a moment to look at some of our larger holdings. Dundee Precious Metals. The strong momentum within DPM businesses continued in the third quarter. Coal production was more than 49,000 ounces, and copper production reached 10.3 million pounds. All of this at an all-in sustaining cost of $620 per ounce. The company also announced an increase in gold production guidance for the second time in 2018. We now expect to produce between 180,000 ounces and 200,000 ounces of gold in 2018.In addition, construction of the Krumovgrad gold mine in Bulgaria is 82% complete and under budget, and first production is now expected in the first quarter of 2019. Krumovgrad will become DPM's second low-cost goldmine in Bulgaria, with an average production of 100,000 ounces of gold per year at the all-in sustaining costs of $400 an ounce over the first 5 years of mine life. For DPM, this represents a compelling re-rating opportunity, and we believe the broader market is finally beginning to take notice.Dundee Goodman Merchant Partners. Let me take a moment to discuss our renewed strategic focus. Earlier this year, we announced our intention to pivot Dundee focus back to its roots by investing in the resources sector. To facilitate this shift, we have set up Dundee Goodman Merchant Partners. Under this banner, we are expanding our in-house capabilities. Our plan is to have a mix of technical skills to support due diligence and mining operations. This will be complemented by existing team of experts with skills in finance and investing in the mining industry. Together, we'll create synergies to give us a competitive advantage when investing in undervalued and overlooked opportunities in the mining sector. In this current market, we see significant dislocations in valuations for junior mining companies, and this is where we see our greatest opportunity. Based on our current model, we see opportunities to generate multiple revenue streams through capital raising, M&A, consulting and ultimately, capital gains. Dundee has a long history of success in the resources sector, and we are excited about the opportunities we see in the current market.And now, I'd like to turn the call over to Bob Sellars for a review our financial performance in the quarter. Bob?
Thank you, Jonathan. In the third quarter, we are reporting a pretax loss of $51 million compared to a pretax gain of $58 million in Q3 2017. This resulted in a net loss after tax of discontinued operations of $56 million compared to a prior-year $2 million gain. Most of these losses are noncash items, and the major drivers of this loss are as follows: At Parq Vancouver, we recognized the write-down of $30 million of our investment as we continue to analyze the short- and long-term projections compared to the carrying value, and this is compared to a $6 million equity gain in 2017. We also booked a $10 million impairment in the quarter in our investment in Dundee Sarea, as we did not view the carrying value as realizable. At Union Group, we had a $3 million gain in the underlying holdings during the quarter with a $7 million gain year-to-date. As previously reported, the value of our indirect stake in ICC Cannabis is what underpins our valuation in Union Group and we'll carry this investment at approximately $19 million.At Blue Goose, we incurred a loss of $5 million primarily resulting from a write-down in the fair value of Blue Goose cattle assets booked to the fixed assets intangibles of that division. This compares to a loss of $5 million in Q3 '17, where we also had a $14 million loss in Blue Goose Pure Foods, which was discontinued. United Hydrocarbon had an improved valuation of $5 million gain compared to a $150 million gain from the prior year period, based on the revaluation of the derivative model of the royalty and contingent consideration. The prior year gain was the result of a foreign exchange gain in the derivative model when it was created. We also booked approximately $3 million loss in Dundee 360 relating to the carrying values of some foreign properties. Consolidated G&A in the quarter was $16 million compared to a prior year $34 million. This was the result of decreased salary cost and lower professional fees as well as a reduction across the board of many expenses.On a year-to-date basis, we recorded a pretax loss of $154 million compared to a $63 million gain in the prior year, which resulted in an after tax and discontinued operations loss of $16 million compared to a $5 million gain in the prior year. Again the major drivers are as follows: at Parq Vancouver, we had an equity loss of $53 million as well as a further write-down of $40 million in investments; a net loss of investment holdings of $7 million compared to a gain of $48 million in the prior year period; we had a loss of $19 million at Blue Goose compared to $17 million loss in the prior year, again, primarily due to changes in the fair value of livestock and a $1 million -- $5 million impairment that I mentioned on Blue Goose cattle bump. UHIC had a valuation gain of $12 million in the year compared to a $43 million gain last year, which was primarily the result of improved foreign exchange gains on the royalty model. Year-to-date consolidated G&A of $56 million is significantly less than the $76 million in the prior year, even while recognizing we did have an increase in severance and sublease costs offset along with a drop in salaries, professional fees and other operating expenses.Let me take a moment now to briefly discuss the results of some of the operating subsidiaries with the key point being on that list, the Blue Goose and UHIC results, which I addressed a moment ago. We feel we are making improvements on our remaining active subsidiaries. There were increased costs at Goodman & Company year-to-date, which is the result of onetime transition costs associated with the move out of the private client business in the second quarter. A small comment on the investment portfolio, which stood at $290 million after proceeds of sales of holdings generated $7 million in the quarter and $74 million year-to-date. The marketable securities at quarter-end was $152 million, and we continue to sell some of these holdings and other investments to provide liquidity. We continue to monitor our liquidity and have approximately $26 million in cash at the corporate level at quarter-end. We continue to look at ways to generate and raise cash and manage our liquidity. Currently, we now have approximately $40 million in cash at the corporate level, as we released $15 million excess capital out of Dundee Securities. We continue to work on a possible corporate funding opportunities to increase our liquidity levels.Our annual dividend costs are approximately $14 million with an additional $5 million in taxes. We still target normalized head office run rates for the year of $16 million to $18 million annually as we -- but we continue to streamline the lower operating cost and expect to reduce this to $13 million to $14 million in 2019. Similar to last quarter, I pointed out that we -- in the notes, the financial statements that we included a tax contingency note. We are in early-stage discussions with CRA and our auditors over the treatment of investment inventory in prior years. Last quarter, we did not quantify the amount, but we have now quantified it as a range of 0 to $11 million plus $2 million in interest charges. That amount could be higher depending on the outcome, but $11 million plus $2 million in interest is what our expectation is of the high-end. This concludes our financial review for the quarter, and I will now turn the call back to Jonathan.
Thank you, Bob, for your update. Let me talk -- take -- let me take a moment to discuss some of our priorities for the remainder of 2018 and beyond. The build out of our merchant banking business is a top priority. Dislocated markets like the one we're in today provide some compelling opportunities. Our job is to find those opportunities and leverage our skills and expertise to generate significant positive returns. We are confident we are building the right team and the right approach in the current market and beyond. We remain focused on assets with longer-term upside. These include larger holdings such as DPM, UHIC, Android and AgriMarine. Parq Vancouver remains our top priority in the works in progress category. We continue to believe in the potential this asset and are working hard to ensure its longer-term success. I said it earlier and let me say it again, I'm now pleased with the pace of portfolio rationalization. However, I am confident that in short order, we'll have some positive news flow to communicate to the market. And finally, we continue to look for ways to optimize our capital structure. As noted last quarter, we are continuing our dialog with the Series 5 preferred shareholders to look at a variety of options. We have retained a third-party financial adviser to help us with these discussions, and will report back to you when we have an update. And let me close by saying we remain fully committed to a disciplined capital allocation process. Bob Sellars and the team have done a good job in managing our expense profile, and we appreciate their efforts. More is being done and we remain focused on reducing our overall cost profile as we continue to streamline our businesses. And now I'd like -- be happy to answer your questions. Operator?
[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Brett Reiss with Janney Montgomery.
If everything goes moderately according to plan, what do you see Dundee looking like 2 years from now? And what will the capital structure look like with the 2, 3 and 5 preference -- preferreds? What is your crystal ball or what are you shooting for there?
Well, I think clearly, we're going to do some type of a deal with the preferred -- Series 5 preferred shareholders between now and June of next year. And as I said on the call, we don't know what that deal is. And part of it depends on the rationalization efforts that are going on over the next 3 months. But the crystal ball is, is that we're going to get our balance sheet back in order. We're going to have a pool of capital to make some -- much more well-researched, well-allocated investment decisions. And you'll be able to see the results of many of those decisions over 2 or 3 years. We'll hopefully have yielded some positive results by that period.
All right. You said in your remarks you're not satisfied with the pace of dispositions. What is causing it to be slower than you want?
Well, when you're selling in private assets, the sales process doesn't recognize quarter-ends. And the reality of it is, we are very close on a number of fronts in very good, well-negotiated, well-diligenced transactions. And it's just -- the period between when you finally have that deal negotiated and getting it over the line to closing sometimes takes a lot longer than you wish it would take.
When these things that you're close to closing on come about? Will the market smile at the realized values or have a frown?
I will tell you that I can't speak for the market, but I'm hoping that -- I don't think any of the numbers are going to be materially different than what the market would probably expect. But I'm hoping that the fact that we are actually working through the items and getting through the dispositions and putting more money on the balance sheet, reducing our outflows, streamlining our businesses and our personnel, I'm hoping that the market will smile on that. Because that's what we say -- that's what -- we're doing what we said we're going to do. I can't comment on the numbers, it would be inappropriate. But I don't think anything is out of the reason.
Now the value of the remaining Canadian Securities Exchange position, is that part of the marketable securities portfolio or that's not publicly traded?
It's not publicly traded, so it would not be part of the publicly traded. But I wanted to highlight it, because it's one, we put in $5 million, it's been very successful. We sold about 1/3 of our position, $4 million or $5 million, so we've taken our capital off the table. And it's been a nice little success story.
Right, right. Are you at liberty to tell us what you think the value of your remaining stake is, sort of range there?
Which one?
The Canadian Securities Exchange value.
I think based on...
Well, we sold 1/3 for $5 million.
We sold 1/3 for $5 million, so you could argue that the remaining is worth around $10 million.
Okay, okay. Now the $152.3 million publicly traded securities, $123 million is the Dundee Precious Metals. The other $30 million is what these days?
I think the biggest chunk of the other $30 million is eCobalt. I think there's still a small position in, some with Cisco, some Reunion Gold, which is one that we're actually quite excited about. So I'm just looking to see -- and some various others.
Right. I may call Robert up and just get a little bit more color on the different press meets, preferreds. I don't want to bore your listeners with that, and I'm going to drop back in queue.
[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of [ Louis Hernandez ], a private investor.
Well, my first question is regarding basically the corporate overhead. Bob mentioned that this year is going to be around 18, and next year is probably going to be -- drop to around 13 to 14. So basically my question is, why is it still being so high based on the reality of your holding company? And second, what's the plan to actually be able to pay for that corporate overhead going forward, given that a huge amount of the assets are just publicly traded companies like DPM and eCobalt, and basically, you need the operating businesses to not only pay for their expenses, but also pay for that corporate expense? So I just wanted to understand that plan a little better and follow up from there.
I would start by saying that if we can get our full portfolio to the point where it's just a handful of publicly traded investments, our corporate overhead will go down a lot more. I don't think -- I think you have to look at the structure that we have now. We still have a lot of different entities that we administer as part of our structure. And what we're trying to do is to streamline those and make them smaller. We do a huge number of tax returns for various subsidiaries. And we need to spend a lot more time simplifying a lot of that before we can take a much more aggressive attack on our overhead. And we do want to do it all while preserving tax losses and everything else that may be of significant value down the road. So we're not there yet, and you're not incorrect in your assessment. But we still do own a lot of investments that are private, where we have to be actively involved in many of these businesses.
Right, right. All right. I guess that's a good answer. Because the whole worry is that the number, even $13 million is high compared to the book value, and not even mention, the market cap. So I guess that's a good answer and it's part of the plan. But obviously, I guess the plan is to make it viable as soon as possible.
I mean a lot of these things aren't -- they're not simple. And sometimes if you have to make a decision, you're going to be giving up some long-term value if you make the wrong decision, you want to make sure you do it right. And trust me, Bob and his team are working on this, and as I said, it's not simple.
Yes, the other thing I'd point out -- sorry, down -- continued downsizing, which we've been doing and continue to do always has additional cost of severances and leases and other wind-down costs. And so you don't necessarily see the savings in the first year or so of taking steps to reduce cost, because you're offset by those additional bump ups. But we continue to work forward and move forward to keep reducing cost.
All right, fair enough. And my second question is regarding UHIC, United Hydrocarbon. Just wanted to have a -- your feeling on when do you guys expect the first oil. I'm not sure if -- I believe you have 2, Block H and the other one, and they probably both have a different time line. Just wanted to have a feeling on that.
Well, I mean first of all, I mean first oil for Block H could be a ways away because it would still need to solidify their transportation route. But we were hoping that the drill would be turning by now on Block H. As we understand it, it's not yet, but the drill is at site. From what we understand, there has been a drill contracted and they're just going through the final drill permitting process, and we expect that the drill will be turning hopefully shortly.
All right. And the other deposit?
The other play, they have not yet started drilling that, and we're awaiting progress. Clearly, the focus is on Block H, and we expect that the first 3 or 4 wells will be focused there before they even turn to the other one.
All right. And just to have an update on once that first oil goes -- or happens and once the whole operation normalizes, what is your updated expectation on royalties there? And obviously, this is a range, and I'm not looking for accuracy, just to have an idea.
Well, it's hard to talk about expectations amid a major exploration program, but the reality of it is, there have been wells drilled before and the wells -- I think 4 of the 5 wells encountered oil. From our understanding, it was mapped by our guys with the 2D data, and there's now been 3D shot, which they say that they're very happy with. But the geological model showed a lot of the potential for many small pools, which could be wrapped into an aggregate production platform that could produce a significant amount of oil per day. And the target is better than expectation. The target that was being talked about was to get something that would produce on the order of like 100,000 barrels of oil per day over a bunch of fields, all within that Block H area. And that's, of course, dependent on the success, which obviously we anticipate, because right next door, across the border, which we're real close to the border, I believe in Niger, the Chinese oil company, CNOOC, has been drilling at a 96% hit rate over very similar geology. And so our expectation is that if they find what they're hoping to find, this could be very significant.
All right. And any idea on like -- I believe you in the past mentioned around $30 million would be a royalty, but just wanted to know if that was sort of the same number approximately or...
Well, I mean it's a 5% royalty, so it's 5% of whatever they produce. So if they do produce 100,000 barrels a day, it would be much higher than $30 million. But there's -- and I want to caution you, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. This is kind of what's been targeted and what the potential is, and if there's proof of concept, we're going to get very excited.
Right. And yes, I guess finally, I don't know if there's anything you can add on the Parq Vancouver. I mean, as you mentioned, it has been underperforming this year. But do you guys have expectations that maybe next year it's going to produce the earning power that you've mentioned in the past or not?
Well, we're working towards hopefully getting a financial restructuring there. And with that financial restructuring, we'll bring in a new group as a partner in the resort that has significant experience in the -- certainly on the hotel and the food and beverage side. We've identified a number of cost savings, which can be very accretive, and we're working with this third party to get the deal to a point. But yes, we are very excited. I mean if you look at, certainly on the hotel and the food and beverage side, it takes 2 or 3 years to properly ramp something like that up. And we're very excited that we'll get there. So the key right now is to get that balance sheet restructured, bring in some new operational expertise, and that will provide us with something that we feel will have the time to get it ramped up properly.
Okay, all right. That's fair enough. And finally, just briefly on the merchant operation, just also the investment bank that you guys are setting up. Do you have any expectation of that operation being profitable next year at all or still in the buildup?
Well, it's still in the buildup. And we do have some expectation that it's going to be profitable. We're structuring it a little different. First of all, it's going to operate under the investment management side of our business, and we're focusing on making good investments first. And if we can collect some fees by bringing in the third-party money and do some advisory work, we'll do that. But our top priority is only getting involved with companies that we want to own a piece of. So it's going to be less volume-driven, but much more focused on high-quality assets that we want to invest in long term.
Your next question comes from the line of Jason Li with Fulcra Asset Management.
I would like to know if you can just talk about the implied valuation of Parq, that $20 million injection was done on?
Yes, I don't think we can -- we're subject to a nondisclosure and noncompete on that.
Okay. And then -- but it's still expected that the promissory notes that...
Yes, it was just -- at this stage, the $20 million was just a note. As we complete the transaction that could change, but it was just -- it was structured as a loan, which will hopefully start to...
I want to clarify, what transaction exactly are you talking about?
Well, you're asking about the $20 million third-party money that came in at the end of September?
Yes, yes.
Well, it was injected -- similar to the $15.5 million hat we had done at the end of June, it was inserted as a note at this time, and we are still working through the details on the conversion, the equity and the timing of that.
But the objective is to -- like that would be a piece of equity in the end, right? Not...
Yes, that's the objective for us.
The objective is that $20 million is going to be part of a much larger financing package that will restructure the casino and hotels.
Okay. And so what would your equity percentage be on a fully converted basis, accounting like the $15-and-change million you put in the last quarter?
Well, I mean when we get that deal finalized, it's -- we're not yet in a position to tell. Obviously, right now our equity is quite significant, and -- but we're trying to finalize the much larger deal which will probably obviously bring it down somewhat.
Got it. And switching gears a bit. Just wondering what type of CapEx is kind of required to grow the merchant bank side of the business?
Well, I mean I think to-date, I think we've just made a few small investments. So it's not requiring a lot. But we're hopeful that we'll have -- be able to free up, I guess, at least $20 million to $30 million over the next 6 months, to be able to invest in some of these opportunities.
And just lastly, did I hear right that you brought $15 million from Dundee Securities to the corporate level?
Yes. Post quarter-end.
Okay. And then the rest is going to get rolled into Goodman and like become part of the merchant bank side?
Possibly.
Yes, yes, cash is fungible, but it could be some of that and we continue to look at other securities to liquidate through the fourth quarter and first quarter to help fund whatever we're going to do in merchant banking.
There is a lot of moving parts.
Right. But is it fair to say that if you like liquidate everything, you have like -- those cash would be unrestricted to the holdings peers?
You mean the $15 million?
I think I remember there's like more than $15 million. Maybe there's another $5 million remaining in there? Somehow that number is in my head.
Yes, you're -- good memory.
That's accurate.
That's pretty accurate. So when we look at what we need to finalize within Dundee Securities in the next little while, we may have a little bit more that we'll -- well, we will have a little bit more than we can bring out of that. But it's not finalized yet.
Your next question comes from the line of Brett Reiss with Janney Montgomery.
You mentioned that the existing portfolio positions were 100. Where is it now and with the closing that you anticipate of different things in this coming quarter, where do you expect that to be?
He's talking about the number of securities.
The number of securities, okay. Well, Brett, I anticipated the question this time. What we're doing is within some of the stuff, we're doing some internal restructuring. But I would say that we have probably positions of - that are on what I would call the more significant size. There's about 31 positions. And then there's a portfolio that we put the rest of the positions in and most of those are being orderly liquidated. So as we get that portfolio work through, we'll probably have somewhere between 30 and 40 names. So and that's - and then we'll take it further next year.
Okay. Now I think what 's making the market extremely nervous is your dividend and taxes. The run rate on that is $19 million to $20 million and your corporate overhead, I know you're going to bring it down but it's still $18 million. So that's $38 million to $40 million. And then when you look at what your sacred cows are like Dundee Precious Metals, United Hydrocarbon, AgriMarine, Android, you're not going to touch those. How do we survive - do you have enough realization of values from the other stuff in the portfolio to get through the next 2 years? Kind of make us feel a little bit better on that.
Yes, obviously we believe the answer is yes, we do. And hopefully, over the next 2 to 4 months, you'll be able -- through the announcements that they make, it'll become more transparent.
Okay. I look forward to those announcements.
Your next question comes from the line of Adam Mitchell with Polar.
Just a quick question. As you guys dispose of assets and enter into transactions, do you expect to have a -- disclose kind of individual transactions? Or is there a threshold that you'll just wait till the end of the quarter? I'm just kind of curious as to how the disclosure works around transactions and materiality.
Well, I mean that's a good question. But I think for the most part, I think given where our market cap is now that the materiality threshold has probably come down. And we're going to try and announce if I could say, even over-announce at times, which is probably different than how we would have done it 6 to 9 months ago. But I think what we want to do is we want to be able to show the market that we're getting stuff done. So I think as we get even some of the smaller ones done, we'll probably put out a quick press release explaining what we did.
Okay. And then one last question. Can you give any color of -- on the tax losses that exist at the holding company? Like the quantum?
The quick answer to that is given the stuff that we're working through with revenue Canada, it makes us very hard to actually say what our tax losses are until we can settle our tax disputes. But that's obviously on the list of things to get a really good handle on. Rob, your numbers, you may have a better answer.
Yes, I was just looking up -- in the note to the financials, we make comment on the size of the tax loss carryforwards. Let me see if I can get to this. So why don't you go on with your next question while I look it up?
That's it for me.
Okay, so Bob's looking up the answer and...
So on Page 26 of the notes, total operating loss carryforwards are $556 million.
Okay, well, I think that's it for questions. So thanks, again, to everyone for joining today's call. And we look forward to updating you again on our Q4 and full year call in March of 2019. Thank you very much.
This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.