Dream Impact Trust

TSX:MPCT.UN

Earnings Call Transcript

[Operator]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Dream Impact Trust Fourth Quarter Conference Call for Wednesday, February 19, 2025. [Operator Instructions] During this call, management of Dream Impact Trust may make statements containing forward-looking information within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. Forward-looking information is based on a number of assumptions and is subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond the Trust's control that could cause actual results to differ materially from those that are disclosed in or implied by such forward-looking information.



Additional information about these assumptions and risks and uncertainties is contained in the Trust's filings with securities regulators, including its long-form prospectus. These filings are also available on Dream Impact Trust's website at www.dreamimpacttrust.ca. Your host for today's call will be Mr. Michael Cooper, Portfolio Manager. Mr. Cooper, please proceed.

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Thank you very much, operator, and welcome, everybody, to Dream Impact's year-end conference call. I've been trying to figure out how to start this call. And my inner voice has been saying I should probably start it by saying, oh my God, we've done such a great job. We did everything we said we're going to. And so many things are bad in Canada. We've got so many issues around leadership. We're so poorly positioned with the states. There's so much uncertainty that we're really facing all of us more and more stress and difficulty than we would have expected.



So let me explain what I mean. The idea was that there was a housing crisis in Canada. The federal government, even the 2022 budget, CMHC repeatedly said, we need about 3 million new housing units to house Canadians. And they actually got involved with a lot of policies. We worked closely with them on the policies. And now it turns out that whether or not we have a housing crisis, it's difficult for people to buy homes with the amount of money they make. So the cost of building is pretty high, especially in Toronto where we're focused.



On the apartment side, it's actually going pretty good. The rents are a little bit flat now. They've gone up a lot in the past number of years. So we'll see how that goes, but everything is slow and grinding. So when we look at our business, it's really amazing that of the 1,800 apartment units that we were planning on building in the Canary District, we now have 2 buildings finished. Part of the third building will be finished this year and the balance will be finished next year. That's 1,800 units. The Trust owns 25%. We are making good progress. We think it's a little slower than we thought, but we're making good progress.



Our value-add apartments, those buildings are full. The rents are pretty strong. It's going pretty close to what we expected. Not a lot of turnover. But otherwise, it's going pretty good. We've done a lot of the CapEx. So now those buildings should start to produce cash flow. And then we're making progress on starting new buildings. So a couple of examples is that Block 206 in Ottawa is going to start in a couple of months. That's a building that the Impact Trust owns half of the land. It is not going to participate in the construction of that building.



But when the construction starts, about CAD 6 million of land loans will be paid off and a couple of million dollars to the Impact Trust. So it's going to benefit from it. We're going to start a building in the [ Gatineau ] side later this year. It's creatively called Block 1. It's going to start. Impact Trust is probably not going to participate in that, but it will pay down more debt. So we're making a lot of progress paying down debt at Zibi.



The big news is that 49 Ontario, which is a huge asset, which might have equity as big as the market cap of the company within the site, we made a lot of progress. So in the fall, with the city of Toronto, they accepted our application to be exempt or delayed development charges. That worked out to be over CAD 2 a share of value. Very, very valuable for us.



In addition, we're just in the final steps of finalizing a very significant loan to fund the construction of the building. And that hopefully will be done by the end of the month or early in March. We've said before that we're looking for partners. We are in very advanced conversations. We hope to have news prior to our first quarter results. And that project produces a lot of value and could produce a lot of cash in the next 12 months for Dream Impact Trust as we lock up all the necessary elements to be able to develop a building that will generate great returns for the owners and crystallize the value that's in the land and stop paying interest on the debt and start the development with the government loans.



By the way, the government loans today are probably around 3%. And in the case of 49 Ontario, the loan will probably be for about 10 years. So it's just about ready to go, and we expect to start construction in October, November. So that's very exciting and very positive.



The other big project that we're making progress on is Quayside. We bid on it in 2022, and there's probably every single thing has changed. But in the meantime, we worked very closely with the federal government, the city of Toronto plus Waterfront Toronto. And I think we're getting -- we're making a lot of progress on having a plan that we'll be able to develop together. In that case, the city of Toronto does the affordable housing, we don't. But that could be a meaningful project. Impact Trust only owns 12.5% of it. So because everything is slower, we're paying more in interest. We're very focused on liquidity. Last year, we sold a couple of assets, and that was pretty good. This year, we're hoping to get the proceeds from 2025 either in cash -- sorry, from 49 Ontario, either in cash or at least have the deal completed. We're looking at selling down some of our commercial assets over time and really focus on residential. And we've got some passive assets that we think we can get some liquidity in.



So we feel pretty good. I would say that I never imagined that we'd start construction of a building and wonder if by the time it's finished, Toronto would be in Canada or the United States. So this type of uncertainty is unprecedented, all the talk about tariffs. The tariffs that the States charges probably has a neutral effect directly on us, maybe positive because there'll be materials in Canada. It's the counter tariffs that would be a real problem for us directly, indirectly, just the state of the Canadian economy matters.



But on that one, we do know that the government has been seeking people in the housing industry to get feedback as to what counter tariffs would hurt homebuilding. And I think that's really important because hopefully, the country will make some decisions to manage the relations with the United States without affecting homebuilding in any significant way.



Overall, we continue to have great assets. We're in conversations on much of the business, how to repartner it and do other things. So it's a very, very tough environment. I think the stuff we're doing is coming along very well. We're very pleased with it. The quality of the assets speak for themselves, and we're able to talk to other people about partnering or trading or other ways to make our company better and better. So I'm going to leave it there, ask Meaghan to speak about the financial results, and then we'll answer any questions after that. Meaghan?

[Meaghan Peloso, executive]

Thank you, Michael, and good morning, everyone. I'll briefly speak to the Trust financial results for the quarter and then touch on liquidity. In the fourth quarter, the Trust recognized a net loss of CAD 8.3 million compared to CAD 19.7 million in the prior year. The improvement in earnings was driven by fluctuations in fair value adjustments year-over-year. In addition, the Trust recognized earnings from Great Wonder condo occupancies, partially offset by higher interest expense driven by the timing of completed multifamily rentals during the year. Interest will typically be capitalized on buildings when they're under development and then expensed once they're ready for use.



The most significant fair value adjustment in the fourth quarter was an CAD 8.4 million fair value loss taken on a commercial block at Zibi, which has recently been completed. The loss was driven by an extended lease-up time line and higher terminal cap rates supported by a third-party appraisal.



Now more specifically, in the fourth quarter, the recurring income segment generated CAD 1.8 million in same-property NOI from our multifamily rental assets, up slightly from prior year due to turnover. Including properties in the lease-up phase, NOI was CAD 2.5 million, an increase of CAD 1 million from the prior year due to Maple House and Alco 2 approaching stabilization. As of February 14, these 2 buildings were approximately 80% leased. In the fourth quarter, the Trust transferred Block 206 of Zibi, which is a 207-unit multifamily rental building in Ottawa to the recurring income segment. As of December 31, in-place and committed occupancy for this block was 53%.



The Trust continues to make headway with its near-term multifamily development pipeline. In the fourth quarter, [ Bridge ] House, which is a 238-unit purpose-built rental building in downtown Toronto, welcomed its first residents. Construction at [ Teraos ] continues to progress and based on current time lines, we do expect to begin leasing towards the latter part of the year for the first building. In aggregate, once built out, the Canary Landing community will make up just over 1,800 multifamily units, of which the Trust owns 25%.



As it relates to the Development segment, the Trust recognized a net loss of CAD 6 million compared to CAD 4.7 million in the prior year. The fluctuation in earnings was really driven by the change in fair value adjustments, partially offset by occupancy income from Brightwater.



During the fourth quarter, roughly 300 condo units at Brightwater closed as part of Phase 1. We commenced occupancy at Brightwater Town, with 50% occupied as of December 31. Subsequent to year-end, occupancy also commenced at the Mason. As of December 31, the Trust had total cash on hand of CAD 16 million. Over the course of the year, the Trust repaid CAD 100 million of construction debt from closing proceeds at Brightwater and Ivy condos, CAD 11.5 million related to the credit facility, and we refinanced with CAD 170 million of maturing debt. And with that, I'll turn the call back over to you, Michael.

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Thanks very much, Meaghan. Meaghan and I would be happy to answer any questions at this time.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Sam Damini with TD Cowen.

[Sam Damiani, analyst]

For my first question, Michael, your comments about the housing market with the 3 million-plus homes expected to be needed and how that's changed. I'm just wondering how you see sort of the housing demand and supply evolving in, I guess, Toronto and Ottawa over the next, let's say, 3 to 5 years and how that impacts your plans for impact?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

You know what, we have these different companies and Dream Unlimited reports next Tuesday. And Western Canada is a completely other world, okay? So here we are talking about housing. And you got to be very local because Western Canada, we're probably doing as well as we've ever done. Our rentals are working. People make a lot of money. They don't have high housing costs. And it is really striking to look at what's going on there and compare it to what's going on in Toronto.



So in Toronto, on the housing side, single-family homes are selling because we have the same numbers we had in 1960. So there's like twice as many people, same number of homes in the city of Toronto. So there's a lot of support for them. Beyond the city of Toronto on the low rise, it's very slow, but it's not terrible. But when you get to downtown condos, we have the highest number of condos being finished this year. There's a little bit more next year. And there's kind of a lot of people who bought condos who wish they wouldn't have them. So that's depressing the prices and they're trying to reduce their carrying costs. So that results in the least number of sales in condos in 30 years.



Now Toronto is a lot bigger. So if we're selling the same amount as the early '90s in that big recession, it's even worse than the early '90s for the condo market. So that's really tough. For apartments, we are competing somewhat with these newly finished condos. And the individual landlords, they don't have as much discipline, and I don't blame them. They're leasing for maybe CAD 2,500 a unit when we think they should get CAD 2,700, but we're kind of competing with CAD 2,500. It's not terrible, okay? There's still a lot of people that want to rent. So I think that part is pretty good.



The key thing is after 2026, the condo deliveries fall off a cliff. There's hardly been any condos started in the last 24 to 30 months. And it doesn't look like many are going to start. So we're going to see a huge change in the supply side of the equation. So I think it's going to settle down. That's going to be very good for the rental buildings. I think the single-family housing market is fine. We're just going to have to see when the condo market comes back and what it looks like because we're kind of used to a different market.



You just have government policy that I think is stupid. We decided that it's a bad idea for foreigners to buy real estate because somehow that drives up prices, which it doesn't, but let's say it does. We should have exempted foreigners buying condos on presales because effectively, when you sell condos on presales, you're creating the financing mechanism to be able to build. So by saying foreigners can't buy a condo, it contributes to less buyers of condos, so we're not building any.



So I think that the government has done some great policies, and we've been a huge beneficiary of it. And there's other policies you look and say like, this does not achieve what they think it does, and it's really hurting. So I think that what we're seeing is whether it's -- I don't want to be political because it's -- like I just want to work with whoever is there. But the liberals have moved so much in the last 2 months on their policy, I think it's very positive. And the conservatives also have a very -- let's grow the economy, let's be more practical point of view. So I think we're going to see even more policies that are positive.



So I'm hoping that after, let's say, I don't know, hopefully, have an election soon, maybe after April and May, there'll be a clearer direction and there'll be a real change in decisions. So right now, the housing market in Toronto is fine for single-family homes in the city like lease sales. But for condos, it's a very tough market and everybody is holding land. I think you heard us talking about the condo sales that have been completed. Almost all of the units that have been presold by us and everybody else are closing. The past like 95% or 97% are closing. Developers are getting the money out of it that they expected. So that part is good.



But the people who are holding land who aren't that strong are getting pushed. And you can sort of see that in our company, they're holding land and not getting started, hurt us. But I think it gets better. Interest rates have gotten better. Construction costs have come in a bit. Land costs in a way are cheaper. So you start to put things together. If we raise development charges and then if the land cost is cheaper and interest rates costs are cheaper, we're going to be able to build more. So it's coming, but just incredibly slowly. Sorry for the long answer.

[Sam Damiani, analyst]

No, that's great. That's very helpful. And great to see the development charge waivers on 49 Ontario and Quayside. And I guess, 49 Ontario, that starts later this year, delivering a few years out into hopefully an undersupplied market. So hopefully, that works out. My second question is just on liquidity and refinancing targets for this year and next outside of 49 Ontario. What other key milestones are you hoping to achieve?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

So again, this is the beginning of our reporting season. But throughout the organization, we've renewed billions of dollars of debt the last couple of -- last 12 months or whatever. It's going exceptionally well. We're in very close touch with all of our lenders. We've got land loan at Gary coming up, a land loan at Silos coming up. They're both with banks we deal with literally every week. We have conversations on them. I think they look perfectly fine as have all of our loans that have come up, in all of our businesses.



So I mean, we're not overly fussed about that. And we think that they'll come along pretty good. We always budget some paydowns. And so far, I think we've exceeded our budget in office, on land, on everything. So I mean, I am grateful for the support and partnerships with all of the banks in the country. It's just been amazing.

[Operator]

The next question is from Sairam Srinivas with Cormark Securities.

[Sairam Srinivas, analyst]

Just looking at the same property portfolio, occupancy, I think, was up year-over-year, but quarter-over-quarter, there are some movements over there. Just broadly, where do you see this occupancy in this portfolio stabilizing over the next 24 months?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Meaghan, do you want to answer that? Do you want me to?

[Meaghan Peloso, executive]

Doesn't matter. I think -- sorry, go ahead, Michael.

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Okay. So our value-add portfolio is quite leased, and the turnover is small. So I don't remember call the exact number. What we're working on getting the new buildings completed, they're leasing up. We're at 70% or 80%, and we're making progress. So we should end up at 95%, 96% from a stabilized portfolio, maybe a little better even.

[Meaghan Peloso, executive]

The change that we saw this period, Sy, was really just a little bit of seasonality. It wasn't anything other than that.

[Sairam Srinivas, analyst]

That makes sense. And maybe just looking at the -- again, the same property NOI number. I think you mentioned there's some nonrecurring operating expenses this quarter. Can you elaborate on that?

[Meaghan Peloso, executive]

To be honest, there isn't a ton of much more to add. Specifically at the 2 properties at Zibi, there was just some R&M and then a little bit of higher OpEx that we think was just because they're new buildings, and we don't expect it to be recurring in nature going forward. So there isn't really much more color to give. It's pretty matter of fact.

[Sairam Srinivas, analyst]

Okay. Fair point. And maybe just the last question on the asset that's probably going to be sold in Dream, the Block 204 and Zibi. Can you guys give color in terms of how the kind of -- how the transaction is going to be built up and the proceeds you're expecting from that?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Can you repeat the last part?

[Sairam Srinivas, analyst]

I'm just curious in terms of how that transaction is going to be built up and what you're expecting from there in terms of the value of that piece of land?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

We've got appraisals on the land, and we've got the debt on the land. Most of the land value is -- Meaghan can probably get the numbers, but I think there's about CAD 11 million of debt that gets paid down and the land is probably worth CAD 13 million or CAD 14 million. So I think that the Impact Trust gets about CAD 2 million. There's not really a valuation problem in any way because we keep -- like we do one block after another, we got appraisals and it's pretty simple.



The real point there is to -- Dream Unlimited is working with Impact Trust to get the -- to not use up any of Impact Trust liquidity, but also to keep the project moving to pay down debt.

[Sairam Srinivas, analyst]

That makes sense, Michael. And maybe just the last one on -- I think just recently, Dream Unlimited announced a new partnership, a new venture that's going to be built up. Does that form an opportunity for Dream Impact to actually sell down some of the assets?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

I think it's unlikely to do a related party transaction with a large institution. But in a way, we're in the market all the time now to try to fulfill that mandate. So whether they buy it or the market -- the market is pretty good. I mean we just bid on apartment building for that venture and got slaughtered in terms of how far we are off the selling price. So we're seeing a more robust investment market for apartments. So I wouldn't see direct -- maybe it could happen. I just don't like the optics of dealing with a new client and talking to them about selling our stuff to them. But I think that the investment market for apartments, you don't need that. You can sell them if we wanted to.

[Operator]

The next question is from David Chrystal with Ventum Capital Markets.

[David Chrystal, analyst]

You touched on the kind of seasonality of the occupancy trend in the same-property portfolio. But looking at the lease-up for Alto 2 and Maple House, obviously, a lot slower in the fourth quarter versus the third. How much of this is seasonal or structural versus competing with your own project deliveries on those sites?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

It's a great question. There are so many things happening at once. It's a little bit hard to isolate like seasonality from -- I don't know, everything else that's going on. But I think that in Toronto, there definitely is a competition with the condos. There's definitely seasonality. We had a great November in Toronto. Again, December wasn't that great, but that's pretty normal. And we're looking forward to the spring. I mean we do keep putting out substantial occupancy.



So it's continuously a little slow, but we're actually making a lot of progress. So I don't know, I think the guys are figuring by the end of the summer, we should be full. So we are getting closer and the building has been a great success. It's a gorgeous building. We're very pleased with that. And then we have to focus on Block 10, which I think is Pine.



And then as we get through that, we're going to have another big building coming up next year. So a lot to do, but this is really the heavy lifting. After this, we're going to have a couple of thousand units in downtown Toronto, where the trust owns 25%, the building should be quite full with no CapEx with very low interest rates is pretty exciting.

[David Chrystal, analyst]

That's helpful. And shifting to Ontario Street. You mentioned you're in some advanced discussions. And I guess a couple of questions there. What would a partnership look like there in terms of the share of your holdings sold? Would it be kind of 50-50, 25-75 or something else?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

You know what, I can only say what I can say. And I'm hoping that within the next couple of months, we'll make the announcement, and we'll have a lot more information. So I don't want to tell you anything about that to be blunt. But what I would say is the project looks like it's quite successful, and we would sell down more now than we might have sold -- we were looking to do 100% of it ourselves. And then sort of as we see it being more difficult and that project seems to be worth a lot of money with people interested, I think we will look to get more liquidity from that. So give us time to tell you.



But what I'm trying to say is we think it's going to be a great development, and we're questioning ourselves how much of Ontario, CAD 720 million development is the right amount for Impact. And by selling down, we get more cash now. So we should be able to tell you more, as I said, twice already by the end of the first quarter results.

[David Chrystal, analyst]

Can you -- I mean, you gave a rough number. I think you said CAD 2 per share economics for the WAVE development charges. But can you walk me through how that would work specifically for Ontario Street? How would that hit the numbers?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Sure. This part is easy. The other part, there's so much nonpublic information, and we're right in the middle, I can't tell you. But what you're asking me now, the city of Toronto published reports on this, and they went into great detail. So I'm just going to tell you what the city of Toronto said with no color whatsoever. The apartment ones average about CAD 43,000 a unit. And we have about 1,000 units, so that's CAD 43 million.



I think we've got, what, 19 million shares outstanding. So I think that's about CAD 2.25 a share. But we also get a discount of 15% on realty taxes and for 35 years. So the city just adds that 15% together for 35 years, gets to CAD 17,500 because it's CAD 500 a year. For us, if the net present value of CAD 500 a year for 35 years, it's pretty good, but it does reflect a higher NOI. So if the buildings are trading at a 4 cap, let's say, that's 25x multiple, the CAD 500 is worth another CAD 12,500. We've got 1,000 units, that's 12.5. So that would actually be CAD 55 million a share or just about CAD 3 -- sorry, CAD 55 million in total for Point Ontario or about CAD 3 a share in value just from that.



I would add that we had HSC removed a couple of years ago, and that's about the same magnitude. So we are seeing a lot of government policies that are helpful. Some are still harmful, but we're making a lot of progress. Next question.

[Operator]

The next question is from Alexander Leon with Desjardins Capital Markets.

[Alex Leon, analyst]

My first question is just whether there's any update on the marketing/sale of the [ Capital Hughes ] Land at Zibi.

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Great question. For those who aren't familiar, in Ottawa, we're getting to our land at Zibi very quickly. And I think after 206 -- and Meaghan if I'm wrong, please correct me, I think we're going to have about CAD 20 million of debt on 5 sites, which is very low.



On the Gatineau side, we have a lot of land. So we looked at a section of land to see who might be interested in it, and we are having conversations. Look, I've gone through this a lot. In early 2024, like in January, we announced that we were selling 438 University for a year. People asked me, they said, oh, you're never going to sell, you sell it. And then we just announced that it took us a year with the same purchaser.



So I don't know what's going to happen there. We have interest in it, and we're trying to see if we can make a deal work. It's a little bit complicated because we've got our own utility system. All the lands there are net zero. People have to use the utility. So there's a lot that we have to do to work together, but there are interested parties, and it would be great if we could work to reduce that -- the loan on the land there, but it's not essential in any way. But we don't have an update yet. We're just getting familiar and people have to learn to understand how all the pieces fit together in the city.

[Alex Leon, analyst]

Great for that incremental color. On the operations side, I'm just curious in terms of maybe occupancy of the portfolio. Is it safe to assume like the affordable units in the rental portfolio are essentially fully occupied and all the vacancy are those market units?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

100% occupied for the affordable. And in the affordable, for the most part, the affordable rent is based on the average rent in the city of Toronto. And it's a little bit different because that reflects all the new buildings that are finished with high rents, the existing buildings that don't have rent control and every unit where there's turnover that goes from rent control to market on turnover.



So not only are they full, we get pretty good increases in rent on them. So I think it's underestimated how valuable the affordable units are. And we've been doing a lot of work on that. And some condo developers have to do some affordable units. It's a pretty cool thing if we could figure out how to buy them and a return that's based on what they actually generate because I think it will turn out really well.



So those are -- they're leased. They're always going to be leased and it's more like infrastructure. So yes, it's all in the market where there is the lease-up.

[Alex Leon, analyst]

That's great. It seems like a great competitive advantage in this market right now. Moving on to maybe some of the occupancy income from the quarter. So the CAD 3.6 million for Brightwater, is that about 50% of the total that was recognized in 4Q?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Meaghan?

[Meaghan Peloso, executive]

Yes, it was. Well, you got to remember, Brightwater was kind of buried as an equity accounted in the development segment. So the occupancy income we referenced was just for the one building that was going to the occupancy period in the quarter. So we'll see a bit more come through in the new year and then look to close those buildings later in '25.

[Alex Leon, analyst]

That's good to know. In terms of that occupancy income from Mason, the MD&A referenced like all 158 units were occupied in kind of post quarter. So is all of that income hitting in 1Q?

[Meaghan Peloso, executive]

Yes. Anything that was occupied post quarter would come through in Q1.

[Alex Leon, analyst]

And then maybe last one for me. Is there like any minimum occupancy threshold in terms of transferring these rental projects into the recurring income segment?

[Meaghan Peloso, executive]

To be honest, it's something that we're looking at for the first quarter. With slower lease-up for some of the larger buildings, it has begged the question when should we transfer them between the segments. So we're going to come out with some revised commentary on our trigger point for moving the buildings in Q1.

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Yes. Thanks for that question. It's one I've had, and I'm really pleased to hear Meaghan tell me how we're treating that.

[Operator]

The next question is from a private investor.

[Unknown Attendee]

On behalf of all the retirees, is there any kind of time frame on when the dividend is going to be reinstated?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

This is probably the wrong answer, but I can tell you, reinstating the dividend is the only thing I have not thought about at all. I think that we're really focused on how to manage through what has turned out to be very challenging times in housing in downtown Toronto. And we're making a lot of progress. But I'd say that our plan goes out to 2028, and that's when we have a lot of buildings finished, things are more stabilized. But we did not suggest when we reduced the dividend that we were going to do it for a short period of time. We've got to deal with the substantial issues, which are really on the completion of buildings, lease-up and managing our debt prudently.

[Operator]

The next question is from [ Michael Psilakis ] Pak with a private investor.

[Unknown Attendee]

So my dividend question was answered. I have another one. So you mentioned that for ZB Block 204 and I think Block 1 at Gino, the trust will not participate in construction. And I was wondering since the trust is making use of CMHC ACLP program, what would the equity contribution be there? And if it was minimal, why is the trust giving it up?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

It's a good question. For Block 1, we actually have an external investor and the Boards of Dream Unlimited and Dream Impact discussed it. But to be totally transparent, I think the Impact Trust decided after looking at LeBreton and Block 1 -- LeBreton and Block 204, they wanted to do one and not both, and they chose to do LeBreton. And I think that we're really trying to use the resources where it makes the most difference.



If we save the cash on those 2 Zibi blocks, but get the benefit of paying down debt, it's a real benefit for the trust. It's better for the trust for the development to keep going and pay down debt along the line. And I think the trust wants to use this money for a project that wouldn't happen without that capital.

[Unknown Attendee]

If I may have another one, short one. In your letter to the unitholders, you said that you have a plan for the next few years that we're excited about. So my question is like how does Impact Trust looking 3 or 4 years down the road if all things go well, if not COVID or something like that comes again?

[Michael Cooper, executive]

Yes, it's a great question. And we do a plan for '25, '26, '27, '28. And throughout it, what you see is we get to more and more apartment rentals, selling some of the commercial. We continue to have assets under development like Ontario won't be done in 2028. So we actually look at 2032 as well. And I don't recall the numbers, but I think we get to over 75% rental apartments of the whole company.



So we like the way that looks. And when I say I'm excited, I mean it. Like pointing out Ontario , the projects we've been working on. We bought that building for CAD 30 million in 2014. We bought some sites next door, another CAD 15 million up to CAD 45 million. We're looking at a value on the books of close to CAD 140 million. And with all the things we're doing, it seems to substantiate that value.



So going from CAD 45 million to CAD 140 million is something I think is exciting. And then being able to start that development to a CAD 715 million or CAD 720 million development with working with CMHC and the city, it's really fantastic. So if you make CAD 90 million of value doing all this work and then you're under construction, that's great. So that's good. Quayside, it's an unbelievable development and everybody is working really well together. It's so hard to get all the pieces settled with the city of Toronto and Waterfront Toronto and the federal government.



And I don't know if you know this, but Waterfront Toronto made an announcement a couple of weeks ago that they completed a deal with all 3 levels of government to get CAD 1 billion of funds. And I think they -- and they said that one of the main uses of that money was to do the affordable housing at Quayside. So those things are very exciting. The day-to-day drudgery of trying to manage our way through some of this stuff isn't as exciting. But overall, especially if the conditions are a little bit more optimistic, it would be great.

[Operator]

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Cooper for any closing remarks.

[Michael Cooper, executive]

I'd like to thank everybody for their time and support of the company and your management team. We are working very hard for you. Not everything is going the way we like, but there are plenty, and we keep at it, and we're going to get to the other side of this. So thank you very much, and we look forward to speaking with you after the first quarter results come out.

[Operator]

This brings to a close today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.