Eckert & Ziegler Strahlen und Medizintechnik AG

XETRA:EUZ

Q2-2025 Earnings Call

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Hello, everybody. This is Harald Hasselmann, the CEO of Eckert & Ziegler speaking and inviting you for today's half year 1 results presentation of the year 2025.

Starting with the typical disclaimer that is known to everybody, I don't have to read it. Now this is a slide slightly adapted. Normally, you see the entire Executive Committee. The group of directors is now enlarged. We have a fully-fledged group executive committee. You know the 3 upper persons here, Gunnar Mann, Frank Yeager, and myself. Let me put in the laser pointer here. So these people gentlemen are known to you, then Joe Hathcock, he is also part of the American Business Group so does Ana Ramirez. And then we have in our group Executive Committee 5 new colleagues joining them, 2 people are representing the Marketing and Sales team, then we have research and development by Dirk Becker, a specific person and colleague, taking care of the Chinese business. And Julian Schröder, you know him very well, he is taking care of all the topics which we are discussing here in terms of finance and controlling. So he is there now.

So this is basically the enlarged business team running Eckert & Ziegler. I wanted to use the opportunity here to show all these faces to you that you know it's not only the one who's speaking to you today, together with Karolin also participating in today's call and Julian, but there's a big team. And in front of that big team is here that group executive committee.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are more than ever advancing really fantastic times. And you see here a slide known to everybody with all the companies being active, being acquired or acquiring companies, and that chart, I repeat in saying becomes busier and busier every time I'm speaking here. And also here, you see the customers we are supplying. And to give you one example here, it was used to show a point. Now it's in a linear point together because the acquisition, the concentration process of small companies being acquired by bigger accounts, continues and that's to the benefit of all players.

Here, some of those customers being published either for lutetium on the left side; actinium, small amount still, but important to have here a footprint, and then the CMO activities, here Archeus, is a new company joining our CMO/CDMO activities, and we are happy that this chart from our customers gets busier and busier every time because that shows the importance of getting supplied with isotope produced by Eckert & Ziegler, either in the upper part for the Medical segment here, what you are now into and in the lower part, for the industry segment, with all the calibration and validation services.

Now what are the highlights of the last quarter. You all know that we are also showing what has happened in commercial practices and being worth to be mentioned here. There is Illuccix, it is a product of Telix, being approved in Germany, we are the distributor, and we do expect that also in other countries, but in specifically for Germany, that will enlarge the usage of diagnostic kits, not only from Novartis and other players in the market, but also now Telix joining that field, and we are happy that there's another player and that will hopefully also induce more gallium-based imaging procedures.

People coming together in Boston on a yearly basis, we do this in front of the International Oncology Conference in Chicago every year, the ASCO, and we do hear our internal event together with more than decision -- 100 decision-makers from the entire field in radio lesion therapy. And we have a CDMO agreement with Pentixa, which was closed in April this year for the usage of Y-90, yttrium, PentixaTher, which is used for clinical trials.

This is -- last year's data to start with, this is a jumping point where we ended last year with basically 50-50 in terms of revenue, EBIT adjusted the number which we are going to report for quite some time, 56% by the Medical segment and the remaining part by the industry area, IP -- for the isotope business. 600 people here, 400 by the Medical segment. So this is the introduction part.

Now I jump directly into the first half year and give you some data and overview for those who have read already the press release, which Karolin published earlier today. Basically, there is always 3 lines to talk about. One is net sales, the other is EBIT adjusted, the most important one because that demonstrate what really has been achieved on an operational perspective, and then net income, what at the end of the day, after all, extraordinary cost is left. So we will come to each of the 2 business segments in a minute.

In a nutshell, in spite of a lot of headwind and the circumstances which were unexpected in the first half year, I do repeat cyberattack and tariff and security and things like that, the sales have slightly been increased more in medical less than isotope product area, but a slight increase in terms of net sales.

Currency adjusted, and that is also mentioned, it would have been better. We do see a weak dollar these days, in particular, comparing that to last year. So if we compare that with last year, the FX adjusted sales would be mid- to single-digit growth, that has been to a certain extent kept here due to the currency development.

EBIT adjusted, there is a strong growth, which you see here. That is a good result because at the end EBIT is more important. You can only distribute what you have earned before. The EBIT margin goes up to 24%. Last year, it was 22%. So we see a lot of improvement in our profitability.

And finally, if you look to net income and take away the Pentixa business or the comparison to Pentixa being part of last year's business in part, then it's almost 20% growth in net income, although we have here a negative currency, financial and currency effect of minus 0.6% compared to plus 0.7% of last year where we had a gain, currency gain this year last, but on the other side, hyperinflation, Argentina came a little bit more.

Let's have a look to the 2 segments. And as usual, I'll start with the Medical segment, 50% growth in net sales. So what we -- basically, what we do see is a continuous growth in the generator business, A. And B, for some time already, we are working in CDMO and CMO activities. This is when companies, pharma companies do approaches. We have a kit, we have a tracer, we have the molecule and we need to combine to label that with radioisotope. Can we do this in your facilities and we have a facility in Braunschweig, we've a facility in Berlin, we have in Boston. So we are using our facilities to offer these kinds of services for customers in very early stage, hoping, assuming then later on, when they go from clinical to commercial use they will stay with us and continue to use our experience, knowledge and service. This business continues to grow. So in addition to the generator sales, we have also a positive development in the CDMO area.

Another highlight is another license, which we sold to an external partner in the amount of EUR 5 million for the Actinium technology, and there is more to come in the second part of the year, even a higher amount, we do expect to come in, in the second half.

In terms of gross margin, strong growth, 41%. You see here the development and then also that induced a strong increase in the EBIT adjusted margin to 29%, which is really extraordinary high. Happy to see that and the gross margin here, the gross profit had an increase of almost EUR 9 million.

If you go to the net income, there we see here the currency effect, disordering the overall result and then interest in some restructuring of the IT infrastructure, but let's stick here to the upper 2 numbers, 50% growth in sales, 40% improvement in EBIT adjusted.

IP segment, the industry isotope top segment is weaker. There, we see minus 10% in sales and also EBIT adjusted, lower development in terms of the financial result. We have some distortions in here in terms of the product mix, which you see above the oil we're locking high profitable, high-margin business unit was far below last year. We do expect a recovery during the outer part of the year. And then spec was better. But here we see a lower margin business. And that gives you an impression that why the loss in sales is heavier in terms of EBIT adjusted because of the unfavorable product mix, which we do see here. And that's why also the EBIT adjusted margin went down from 23% down to 17%. And now for those who are following us for a later period in time already, you might know that always the EBIT adjusted margin in the IP segment used to be lower. This is the range we are used for. Last year was really extraordinary high in the first half year. That's why it is said, but it's not really a surprise because that brings us back to a range which we are normally used in that area. Still, we are very confident that in the remaining 6 months, the results will improve, and then we will achieve what we have planned for.

Looking to the upper part of that slide, you see that it is not a 50-50% gain anymore. The medical segment is stronger in terms of overall growth. It's more than 50%, and here isotope product is 46%. Not a surprise, anticipated, wanted and forecasted, but it's even still worthwhile to demonstrate.

For those who want to have a bridge from the EBIT reported to the one which is EBIT adjusted, there might be more questions coming up later on. I will not so much talk about medical, isotope or others.

Let's have a look to the overall result. EBIT reported EUR 33 million, overall result, EUR 35 million. And most of that is coming from the IT restructuring out of the cyberattack and here, currency effect, as I mentioned early on. These are the 2 main effects which were influencing the difference from EBIT reported to EBIT adjusted.

Revenue growth and split across the countries, we see a growth in Europe, 7% unsecurity in North America during the first half year, that's why what I presented earlier on where is the shortfall coming from. It's coming from North America, which is now representing 46% overall. Asia is strong -- Asia growth, but that has also a lot of reasoning in the license which we gained here EUR 5 million in the first quarter of this year, and that's why we had a strong jump here of 31% compared to last year due to that license agreement, which we did. And that also influences that Asia now represents 16%, slightly higher than anticipated but due to the license effect I just talked about.

Core business is still radiopharmaceutical. And here we see a continuous growth. Last year, 10%, if we do what controllers like to do a first half year's number and doing an extrapolation, then EUR 140 million or whatever is the number we do anticipate out of extrapolation. That would be 10% growth compared to last year. Our guidance is based on EUR 150 million. So you see here still a difference between controlling extrapolation in our guidance. Reason is easy to explain. That is why more licenses will come in the remaining part of the year, and that will then jump from the extrapolation number to the guidance number, which we do confirm here once again.

And the mixture of these radiopharmaceutical products are mentioned here. It's pure isotopes, it's isotopes in a generator. It's coated. It's CDMO and CMO activities. I talked about and it's all kind of radiopharmaceutical production equipment composing that sales growth.

Looking to the quarters, softer quarter in the beginning of the year, reasons given when I talked to you last time due to the cyberattack and others, and then a recovery, in particular, in the generator business in Q1, and that's why you see here the 90% growth for the radiopharmaceutical business, and these numbers are hopefully known to you or you are used to these ranges where we have that growth over the year.

Let's have a look to the balance sheet. The balance sheet, there are lots of items you might be interested in. I'd like to point in here EUR 100 million -- more than EUR 100 million for cash because we have a positive cash development, low numbers in loan liabilities. The rest is relatively stable, a balanced number of EUR 439 million is what we have shown also last year.

And here you see a number of 52%. I think the number is going down to 51%. Now this is rounded numbers, okay. Here, you see 51.5% and the other was 52%. That depends on which -- the beauties eye in the beholder, so it's in the same range and last and it's a little bit lower than the year before, but that is just because Pentixa was responsible for having a long balance sheet, and that is now out of the license. And you see here the liabilities go down, cash goes up because strong cash flow from operators and that is accumulated, and that's why we have here that number. Payments is the same. And EBIT adjusted, we talked about that strong increase of 9%.

Here again, some key figures. To summarize the numbers, revenue, cash flow higher than last year, a bit higher than last year. Balance and the securities improvement and equity ratio, more or less the same due to the reason I gave.

Last slide from my side before we jump into the Q&A session, that is we stick to the guidance, which we have published in the beginning of this year with a sales number of around about EUR 320 million within the normal corridor and an EBIT adjusted of EUR 78 million, same assumption and conditions as I just made. So we do confirm here both guided numbers and are confident to fulfill our mission to be a supplier of choice and hopefully, also an investment for all the shareholders.

So thank you very much. And with this one, I close the official presentation for commercial numbers and giving here just an outlook where we can see each other again. And hope we will have a lot of questions.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

There is Alexander Galitsa. I think he dialed in yesterday, are ready to be #1. Alex, you have here first enroll. Please go ahead.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

A couple of topics, quite a few actually. Let's see how -- what's the best way maybe to start off, just to have it done IP segment. This minus 10% top line in H1, think minus 6 without currency effects, quite a deep considering you still expect growth for the full year. Just wondering if you could talk to your visibility, how are you planning to achieve acceleration to such an extent in the second half of the year. I think you require around 20% top line growth in the second half to reach the EUR 155 million, I think you outlined for the full year. So basically, what gives you confidence and whether there could be, I think you're mentioning project-related delays, whether this can be something that will ultimately end up pushing revenues into 2026. So that's for the IP and then maybe Medical will do afterwards.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

The number of EUR 155 million is the number which had been published and so there are lots of reasons. At the end of the day, we are confirming that number. And we are doing all in our hands to achieve that. Now to give you a small example is tariffs between U.S. and China. When the whole discussion started, how to deal with the tariffs, the Chinese importers were hesitating and placing orders. Now at least as of today, 3:20 PM, there is not a complete relief, but the countries and governments are talking to each other again, i.e., we see a recovering pattern from our importers, from our Chinese importers to start ordering again. And that is also for the case for European importers being hesitating buys a book. Can we still import from the -- what is Europe doing and things like that. So there was a lot of reluctancy in saying, what do we do? What can we do? What do we want to do in the first year. And what we have now recognized that not completely, but people are going back to a more normalized purchasing pattern. And that's why we see here an improvement already started and that is going to be continued.

In terms of businesses, which we were lacking at the beginning, one of this I mentioned already that is oil well logging. There, we were lagging orders, but we know that this will come in a seasonal approach. And whatever did not come in, in the first half year is supposed to come in the remaining part of the year. So that is the second reason.

And the third one is projects you mentioned, we do not have specific income projects, we have a lot of construction sites or investment projects in South America, for instance, where we direct a new facility in Sao Paulo in order to have more production capacity. But that was not planned to generate additional sales already in this year. So this is the overall perspective for IP. And if Julian doesn't take out the hammer and say something different, then these are the numbers which we are going to confirm. But you have also some questions for Medical?

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

Yes. So on the medical side, I see that the Q2 and H1 is sort of on the underlying basis, stripping out the licenses from the joint venture is on the latter side, what -- in terms of growth, I think for the Medical division, first half is 8%. And for the radiopharma, it's around 10% H1. Same question here. I think you need an acceleration in the second half of the year to reach the targets. Again, I think if you could add any context to what -- in what verticals do you expect to see more dynamic versus the first half? And maybe in this context, also, if you could explore on the weather, some of the newer growth areas are contributing more now. I think you were mentioning CMO, CDMO, if that's meaningful already, and also maybe with regards to Actinium, Lutetium, how those isotopes are performing? And what is the -- is that already at a magnitude that is meaningful for the group?

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Okay. Absolutely. Good question. Yes. So introducing the statement is, A, we are focusing on licenses deals and these license deals will stay as one income opportunity, revenue opportunity for last year, this year and the years to come. Now with license deals, it's always not -- see, it's not a linear curve. Now if you have license deal in a specific quarter, and then later on, you compare that data with that quarter with next year's quarter, there might be some distortions. And this same is here. We have had a license deal last year quite substantially, and we have a smaller amount in the beginning of this year. And now the next license income is only planned for Q4. That was published and mentioned earlier on. So there is -- it is a curve which goes that, it's flat. Then you have an income, then it's flat again, and then you have the stronger income again and then it's flat again. So if you want to compare apple to apple to apple to apple, you might take out the license income. I would not recommend to do so because this is not extraordinary income, it's ordinary income, but it does not go in a linear income and that's why if you take first year's -- first half year's number, and multiplying this 2, you will not reach what I want to reach by the end of the year. And that's why the license deals, which are supposed to come out of the existing contracts have to be added on that, A.

B, is the Actinium activities, the performance of pure Actinium sales is still less than EUR 1 million as of today. It's still low because the numbers which are required. The demand is extremely strong, but what we are really selling as a purified isotope is very, very small. That will change only by next year. I don't expect a stronger increase for Actinium -- for the pure Actinium sales by this year.

Lutetium is a different story. Lutetium, we see -- and after getting here the approval and all the licenses and all certificate, which we needed that there is more to come and we are currently exploring also different opportunities. That is not only the case for the deal, in a lenient endpoint, but also other customers are asking for additional income and supply here.

CMO/CDMO, right, we have an existing site in Braunschweig doing CDMO's activities, I would say, for more than 5 years. In Berlin, we are doing it for a year. And in Boston, we started this year. So there is a different uptake curve and Braunschweig is developing well and profitable. Berlin is developing well and breakeven, and Boston is still to come. So these are 3 different types in which we are active. And I do expect that by the remaining part of the year, there will be stronger performance as of the -- as we have seen it for the first half year, and that is going to be continued by next year. So overall, here again, also to confirm that the guidance is within what we wanted to achieve.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

Just 2 follow-ups and then I go back in the queue. On Lutetium, you mentioned other customers that have inquiries. Is that -- would that be for clinical usage? Or is there also a commercial opportunity...

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

No, there is also for commercial usage. These are individual customers like hospitals or clinics which are asking to be supplied with our products. For pharmaceutical companies, we are in preparation of specific deals. And that is still under negotiation, but I'm pretty sure that there is more to come what we can hopefully also publish being allowed to publish being signed anyway in terms of doing CDMO work for pharma companies.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

And the last follow-up is on licensing. So are you currently working on any other potential licenses for, I guess, technology transfer beyond the ones that you have signed with Telix and the joint venture? Or is that -- that is currently not in the scope of the, I guess, activities?

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Yes. But yes, and how you take. We are talking to pharma companies how to best serve their needs and how to best match their interest. And that can be either in a pure supply contract or it can be combined also with some kind of technology transfer. And that could also happen to other parties as well. But if you'd ask me now is there something which will happen by tomorrow? I will say, there's nothing happen by tomorrow. Something during the rest of the year could be -- it depends -- so there's nothing concrete where I say I don't sleep because there will be a press release by tomorrow. But we are working on that because I mentioned licensing is part also of our business.

Super, then PN.

[Unknown Analyst]

So first of all congratulations. Maybe a few questions on my side. And if we stick on what you are just saying about the lutetium revenues, would it be interesting to see how much of, let's say, the target that you gave a few years ago on doubling Dominican segment revenues by '28. How much of that will be tied to the POINT Biopharma agreement that you have because we're starting to see maybe some delays when it comes to Lilly and LOCAMETZ on that, so it will be interesting to see what's the exposure? And is there any risk from, I don't know, delays happening on that?

Then I have a follow-up with the second one, which will also be on the Medical segment and the gallium generators demand. Do you see any impact from the positive news load at Novartis and that the new indication launch that they had to explain the patient pool? Do you see like more customers coming and knocking out the door? Do you think that there is some, let's say, threshold in terms of number of patients that you need to have to, let's say, double the number of generators in one hospital and that might take a new indication and new population rates to happen? And then I will have other questions.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Okay. So yes, the lutetium outcome for POINT product was not as promising as they wanted to have it, and that is public knowledge. Nevertheless, the triangle between Lantus, POINT and Eli Lilly is reconfirming our cooperation agreement, i.e., to deliver what they want. But yes, there is a slight delay in kicking off or the hockey stick in terms of their demand is to a certain extent moved to the right direct -- not left, but to the right direction so in terms of getting that data. That's true.

But on the other side, we see also that other companies have an interest in taking our lutetium for validation samples. And if you do a validation sample, that is then hopefully followed also by a supply contract. So we are working on compensating the delay for one customer by getting more customers.

In the medical generator business, it's a double-blinded question. A is, yes, the Novartis result is very positive, and that for sure lead to more Pluvicto or PSMA-617 treatment. And in order to do so, you need more imaging procedures before that, split it, however, into gallium and fluoride. And that is also then FTG on the one side and gallium-based kits on the other side. That's why we have to always see the growth is to the benefit of the 2 suppliers. We have not seen yet that out of the demand of generators is exploding, but what we do see is that the replacement of a generator goes faster or with other words, that the demand for a higher activity generator, i.e. the Gallium 100 stays unbroken. And that's why we have increased our purchasing activities for germanium, we are producing more GalliaPharm 100, and that leads also that the average price for a generator, if you put everything together and divide it to the number of units you are selling is increasing despite a negative currency effect or despite whatever competition described then, we see an increase in the average price because of more GalliaPharm 100 positively influencing that way.

Second answer is we do expect still in this quarter the approval for Novartis in China and Japan. And we are together with this company in these 2 areas, then it is followed by reimbursement discussions and et cetera. But to get the market authorization for GalliaPharm in China, and later on also for GalliaPharm in Japan is severe, an important milestone to also entering their territories. Will that lead immediately to win strong increase in sales? No. Will this enable us to have more business opportunities? Yes.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. Super clear. And maybe just a very -- yes or no probably answer, but on the generators, is it fair to assume that the higher dosage are more profitable for you, or it's the same thing?

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

That is correct.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. Right. And then maybe one last question, and then I will go back in the queue. But just on the, let's say, big picture side, do you get, let's say, more cautious view from potential customers that are delaying the launch of the clinical cities or from, I don't know, a new company that wanted to buy some of your equipment for the Medical segment. Does the macro has impacted the activity or you don't really see anything on that front?

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Equipment in terms of what -- in terms of...

[Unknown Analyst]

Hot sales, for instance, [ similar to that ].

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

So the order book for this year is full. The order book for next year is almost complete, not fully. Do we see a certain degree of satisfaction? Not yet. But the question is to what extent hot sales provide us like our business, but also from our competitors are also entering new fields. And that is the question which we are currently investigating also to go into a broader area of scope in providing hot sales in order to compensate something like certain satisfaction, which might come. But we should not forget that other areas have completely not really made any big business approach South America or Asia. We are not really active so much in these territories yet because we were fully busy, but that would be then the next step.

Then Alex. I don't see here the 2 capital -- I don't know who else is...

[Unknown Analyst]

This is [ Alex Lewanski ]. Could I ask a question on Telix new product, Gozellix. Do you expect this to be a net positive or negative?

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Okay. So that will be a high activity kit, which they are trying to get that being produced in cyclotron base. So that, a, is it will enable a broader acceptance of gallium-based kits which is a good development because everything which helps to demonstrate the quality and the effectiveness of gallium is to the benefit of all gallium providers, be it a generator or cyclotron produce. So it's a good news.

Will it harm the business of the gallium business itself? I don't see that happening because it is cyclotron in those centers where you anyway have the center, and then it's rather a competition between gallium produced on the cyclotron versus FUD produce on the cyclotron. So that is rather -- the competition takes place in these big, big centered hospital and not so much of the overall field radiopharmacies. There'll be one hospital, which is saying, okay, instead of buying one generator -- only by half of generator, yes, that could happen, but...

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. I won't be quick, I only have a couple of more questions. The U.S. revenue is down 8%. Could you explain what is going there? I don't think the foreign exchange could have had that much of an effect. Was that some particular effect in Medical?

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Yes. I mean that is one area. First of all, we had a big start in this year, I must confess it due to the cyberattack, and then we have other topics. I also mentioned the tariff topic, which was really difficult to induce a lot of hesitation for potential customers. And then the oil well logging business was really weak in the beginning of that year, and there we are confident that this will be recovered. So basically, it was mentioned already -- we saw that development in Q1 already coming up, and that has been now demonstrated. But as we are talking about figures up to June, it is, as I mentioned, if I had to include July figures here, then we would see that the improvement continues and that will go. But right here, are we happy with the result of Q1 and the first months of Q2? No. Are we confident that this will change in the out-of-park? Yes.

[Unknown Analyst]

And my question is, just to check, license sales are -- they are excluded from the definition of radiopharmaceuticals, is that correct? And is any portion of recurring or is it a one-off technology transfer as we would think as a purchase and a sale impact.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Yes. That depends from license deal to license deal. So the second one, which we entered in this year is also linked to the royalties. The other one, which was published last year, not, so that is a higher amount. This lower or less, no royalties, the other one is a lower upfront payment but with royalties.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. That's very clear. And my last question was, are you planning to come to the Jefferies Conference in London in November?

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Yes.

[Julian Schröder, executive]

I'm sorry, I have to jump in for a second. The question was whether the license deals are included already on pharmaceutical sales, correct?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes, that's correct, Julian.

[Julian Schröder, executive]

They are included. Meanwhile -- unfortunately.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

That was there for Julian here. Julian, thanks for joining. Welcome, superb. Good. Then who's next? Is the -- I think there is Alexander again. So Alex again, superb.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

Yes. Thanks for additional follow-up. Just maybe to clarify on Glimsus to Eli Lilly point, I was a little bit surprised here in that this is somewhat of a still potential for you. I think Glimsus publicly have dropped the engagement. And I think Eli Lilly has also deprioritized the asset. I'm just wondering like what's the dynamic? Is it something still that you hold as of relevance for...

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

That is easy said, Eli Lilly wants to enter the field of [ ILT ] and radioligand therapy, statement one. Second statement, they have inherited supply contract, and we went through that supply contract, and they are very committed in continuing exploring their business opportunities in the field of lutetium-based treatments, there is not only one agent which they indirectly via the corporation with [ Lantus ] have hands on in terms of marketing and sales, there are more than one compound. And that's why they are saying, okay, that is off. But this is to come, this is to come, and this is what we end up, and then they want to have more. And that's why the statement which we received is very clear. No reason to deviate from the overall supply contract. As mentioned earlier, there's a soft shift to -- in terms of timing, but no deviation from the overall commitment.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

Okay. And on Yttrium, I think you mentioned in the presentation somewhere that APAC expansion ongoing. Could you maybe add more context to it? I think Sirtex was always having this untapped potential in China for many years, and how they had difficulties in really penetrating the market. Is that something -- has something changed there? Do you see more dynamic or what caused you to put it that way that there is expansion ongoing in the APAC or maybe it's not related to China, more context will be helpful.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

No, no. The increase in EBIT was the license deal, which we have had with Actinium and that is shown under China.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

I was referring specifically to the chart where you show all the isotopes and the yttrium, there is a bullet point which says APAC expansion ongoing. I was wondering whether APAC expansion means relates to China or maybe other markets? And if it's China...

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Yes, yes. Let me check here. Was it on which slide do you have it? That's...

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

It's a correct number -- Slide #5. The second bullet point, APAC expansion.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

No, that is just the case that we are producing Y-90, A, for Europe; B, for U.S.; and in GMP quality for China. And that their demand is growing. Now if you recall what I said 2 years ago, and you quote me correctly, then I said by that time, probably in 5 years' time, China should be as big as rest of the world. And that is not happening because in penetration into the China's market [indiscernible] service facilities is going much slower than anticipated due to whatever they have been. But are we getting more stuff into the Chinese market? Yes. Are we preparing to increase the production numbers? Yes. Is as fast and as speed as you want to have it? Not yet. Yes, it's a little bit and then accelerating. Your comment is expanding this or continuing to expand into that market would be right way.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

And last question is related to Lutetium. Just wondering whether you have given up on hopes to be supplying at some point...

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

No, no. But we are trying to approach it from a different angle now. And can we be a pure stupid supplier, is all honorable approach or can we combine it with services, i.e., CDMO work. And that is something which we are exploring and that might give us not immediately, but that gives us the good hope, reason for good hope there also to enter into that field by bypassing a normal ordinary supply contract, but doing here also some CDMO work and then later on become available.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

But that would be for a different asset, not the one that they have already...

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Not for prostate.

[Aliaksandr Halitsa, analyst]

Okay. But for the prostate, you have given up. Okay.

[Harald Hasselmann, executive]

Do I give it up? No. Is it realistic that I make an announcement tomorrow? No.

Any other question, comment, wish, desire. If that is not the case, then I thank you very much for your attention. Thanks to everybody, and speak to you soon again. Have a good day and a good weekend. Bye-bye.