Renesas Electronics Corp

TSE:6723

Q3-2025 Earnings Call

[Operator]

Good morning, everyone. If you'd like to listen to this session in English, please click the interpretation icon at the bottom of screen and select English channel.

Thank you very much for taking your precious time to attend Renesas Electronics 2025 Third Quarter Earnings Call. We thank you very much, indeed, for your attendance. Today, simultaneous translation is made available. Please click the translation button at the bottom of the screen and select the language of your preference. Now speakers, you are requested to turn on your video.

For today's presentation, we have the attendance of President and CEO, Hidetoshi Shibata; as well as Senior Vice President and CFO, Shuhei Shinkai, as well as some other staff members. After this, we will hear some greetings from Mr. Shibata, and then Mr. Shinkai will follow with the explanation on the third quarter results, which will be followed by the Q&A session. We intend to finish the entire session in about 60 minutes.

The materials to be used for today's presentation is already posted on the IR site of our home page. Mr. Shibata, please turn your microphone and begin your statement.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Good morning, everyone. This is Shibata here. Today, I caught a cold. So maybe it might be difficult for you to hear my voice, but please excuse me. The temperature has come down quite suddenly, and school events, there are so many -- so much events. So there are many people around me catching cold, so please be careful yourself as well.

Now the third quarter, maybe have already seen. In a sense, I think I would say the results have landed in line with the expectations. As you may recall, there might have been some upside, but we have declared to operate the business in a very diligent manner, and the numbers came in as anticipated. So the revenue came in as planned. The revenue from the channel, there were some upside. So the channel inventory is now becoming smaller. And that is the -- by and large, the highlights of the results of the third quarter. And so if things stay as is, we are not really assured. So towards that fourth quarter, we hope to further reinforce the channel inventory in the fourth quarter. So that's how we plan to manage the business.

Overall, I would say, from the sell-through at the end demand. If I talk about the end demand, the sell-through, by and large, I think the performance has been flattish. There were some ups and downs depending on the elements, but by and large, it was flattish.

Automotive, for some certain customers, the production and also inventory adjustment has been done. So there might be some decline on the -- there was some decline on automotive, but 28-micron and Gen 4 SoC, they are taking off steadily as planned, but the scale is still limited. And of course, the 28-nanomicron MCU, especially due to the China-specific element, we are going through some phase of adjustment. So it's not at a phase of achieving a significant growth, but we are enjoying steadfast increase.

On the other hand, for nonautomotive, towards the fourth quarter, how should I put it? The outlook compared to the last time, I think, is more favorable, I would say. So -- I'm sorry for the ambiguous expression of favorable, but I think things are turning to the better. As for the industry overall, there are, of course, some ups and downs depending on each element. But overall, we are seeing a robust growth.

At the third quarter, continuous after the third quarter in the fourth quarter as well, the AI infrastructure, there has been a very strong demand, and that has been continuing to be the case. And the production side, we are now making efforts on the production side rather, so that we can make sure to supply the needed demand, so we will produce and sell and produce and sell. So those are the areas that we are going to attach focus on in the fourth quarter.

And consumer, consumer mobile and IoT, this segment, nothing strange. But third quarter, we have seen a significant increase. And the decrease in the fourth core, that kind of seasonality is already factored in. But there has been a share gain in this segment. So overall, we are seeing a general uptrend here. So IIoT overall, as a general trend, I think we are seeing a favorable trend.

Automotive, next period, and there are some uncertainties there. But as always, we'll keep the same attitude of having a deliberate management, and we'll keep a close eye on the management, the inventory level and be cautious in our management. Especially when it comes to channel inventory management, this is some time ago already, but about 5 years ago, we have experienced a very bad situation. So learning from that lesson, we will continue to be cautious. So I would like you to keep an eye on our performance and evaluate as adequate.

Then up until the last earnings call, because it's been than 1 year since we acquired Altium, so we have been listening -- we have been hearing some questions from the investors regarding Altium. So just today, I would like to give you a little bit of update on Altium. In a phased manner, we'll try to enrich our disclosure regarding the Altium. So I will just give some overview today. Just a little overview.

So if you can put up the screen, please. Yes, this is Altium stand-alone. So far, as planned, cost synergy and organic growth, they are performing in line with our expectations, so steadfast progress has been achieved. So those are the 2 elements that you see on this slide here.

The sales synergy takes longer time, definitely. And the so-called enterprise or the large accounts that's leading the world. The sales expansion to those clients have just started on a gradual basis. So that's what is meant by the box on the far left.

Right now, we are making a focused effort to the middle section here, i.e., after the acquisition of Altium from a stand-alone basis, we are now -- that will not make sense if it's standalone. So we are now going through a major transformation.

One thing, as it was already announced by Altium. And if you can look at the website, I think you'll be able to have a better understanding. So far, the PCB designer software and Octopart, those different products had been provided by Altium. But right now, we are making a transition to become a platform company. So we are in the middle of this effort. And in parallel to that, the user base is planned to be expanded. So we are now expanding our efforts to expand the user base as we had declared from before. So those efforts are now being propelled.

And why Renesas? One of the pillars why Renesas is this Renesas 365. This is our own platform. And we -- the development is currently underway. And in the first half of this year, Embedded World, at that trade show, we demonstrated a demo. So by the end of the year, we plan to launch this and the progress -- the preparation is currently underway.

As for the future, as you can see on the right-hand side of the slide, Renesas 365 is planned for launch within this year. At the point of launch, at that time, it's not going to be something splendid that will surprise you naturally. So in the past, Windows made a very silent debut, but then with Windows 95 made a huge takeoff with Windows 95. So that is the kind of avenue that we would like to follow with. So please expect for this Renesas 365, but not with a huge anticipation.

The overall progress, as I mentioned, because we are in the middle of this major transformation, we don't want to set the KPIs everything from the beginning. So -- and because we don't want to change them later. So we are very cautious in setting the KPIs. So if things go as planned, I think we will be able to disclose what kind of KPIs will be set for this business during the next earnings call. And the progress will be reported at the Capital Markets Day next year with a more bird's eye view with more enriched data. So we would like to give you an update on the progress on that occasion.

So from here, I would like to -- starting off with the Altium business and also the details of the earnings call will be handed over -- will hand over the microphone to Shinkai-san so that he can give some updates on those things that I just mentioned.

[Shuhei Shinkai, executive]

This is Shinkai, CFO. On the left-hand side of the previous slide, we have -- there was progress. I would like to give some more details regarding the progress so far. It's been 1 year since the acquisition. So I would like to talk about the progress thereafter. If you can look at the right-hand side, cost synergy.

Cost synergy. There was the initial cost reduction immediately after the closing and also the cost suppression after that, absorbing the cost increases using Renesas resources. So we had been contemplating this 2-tiered approach.

The first phase will be -- was completed by the end of the first quarter of this year. And the organic growth, the second point there. As you can see on the left-hand side, the ARR, annual recurring revenue, annual recurring revenue is the indicator that we have used here. This is based on term-based contract and subscription-based contract revenues. So the annual recurring revenues per 1 year is indicated by this indicator. So compared to third quarter 2024, we have achieved a year-on-year 15% increase in the ARR. This represents the same pace of growth prior to the acquisition.

The sales synergy, we have started to see this. We are starting this with the cross sales measures for enterprises and the transformation to the platform business. Renesas Retail Supply development in addition to this line of development, in the finance and account area, as we discussed the other time, the revenue recognition policy was changed as we announced the other time -- the other day in view of this transformation into a platform business. So starting this year, we've changed the revenue recognition policy because of this. That was about the progress relating to Altium.

From here, I would like to use your usual slides and explain the results for the third quarter of the year. If you can go to Page 6, please. This is the overview of the financial results. For the third quarter, if you look at the dark blue columns in the middle, revenue, JPY 334.2 billion; gross margin, 57.6%. Operating profit, JPY 103.2 billion. Operating margin, 30.9%. Profit attributable to the owners of parent, JPY 88.2 billion. EBITDA, JPY 122.5 billion, and foreign exchange, JPY 146 to the dollar and JPY 170 to the euro.

Compared to the forecast, if you look at the 3 columns to the right, and I would like to explain them in more detail using the subsequent slides. That was the non-GAAP. And for the GAAP performance, I'll come back to you later.

On the next page, please. This is the third quarter revenue, gross margin and operating margin and also the segment results. For the company total, first, compared to the forecast, operating revenue was 1.3% higher, 2/3 of this increase was the result of foreign exchange, a weaker yen and the remaining 1/3 is from other factors.

Automotive was in line with the expectations, and the sell-through upside, we had planned for this shipment that can cater to sell-through. And sell-through was okay and shipment was almost in line with the expectation.

And the IIoT compared to the forecast, we have achieved upside, AI server and PC and also memory interface, those were the major drivers behind this incremental performance.

Now regarding gross margin, gross margin compared to the forecast came in 1.1% higher. The details of that. There are mix improvement and also utilization improvement. And mix improvement was due -- as I mentioned with the revenue increase, this was due to the memory interface, because they are higher in gross margin, they sold well, and that drove the growth and also utilization increase.

I'll come back to this topic later, but input utilization came in higher than expected. We review the schedule and the input was increased in the -- towards the third quarter compared to the fourth quarter.

OP margin, this increased by 3.9 percentage points. So the significant improvement compared to the forecast. As I mentioned earlier, because the revenue also increased and also in addition to the gross margin improvement, operating expenses also accounted for a major bulk of this improvement of operating profit.

In actual numbers, operating expenses, OpEx ratio and also plus R&D, there was a reduction of JPY 6.3 billion. So almost half of this improvement was due to the timing difference of R&D projects and the remaining half has come from the net cost reduction, so the net reduction in costs. So those had a stronger impact than expected. And therefore, the timing difference of R&D because this is now postponed from the third quarter to the fourth quarter. So that has accounted for a major impact of the profit improvement. And I'll come back to this topic later.

But in the second half, if you average out for the second half, I think the OP margin will reflect a more realistic number.

Now on a Q-on-Q basis, if you look at the bottom box on the right-hand side, revenue came in 2.9% higher and automotive Q-on-Q decline and IoT Q-on-Q increase. Operating gross margin improved by 0.8 percentage points, on a Q-on-Q basis and mix improvement, utilization increase and cost reduction, those were the drivers behind this.

OP came in 2.6% higher. OP margin came in 2.6% higher due mainly to the expense reduction and revenue growth, as I mentioned earlier. And also, I have one more thing regarding here.

Regarding the segment, the -- as far as automotive is concerned, if you look at the very bottom, if you look at the OP margin there, OP margin Q-on-Q achieved a significant improvement because this -- in the second quarter, there was a one-off factor or one-off losses regarding litigation expenses. In reaction to that, there has been an increase. So on a Q-on-Q basis, it seems larger as an improvement.

But the actual -- if you ask me if this is recurring, then if you even out the 3 quarters overall, then in the 9 months up to the third quarter, the automotive OP was 29.5% OP margin. So that I think, reflects the reality, I believe.

As far as IIoT is consumed, nothing in particular that I have to note. So I can move on to the next page.

So next is about the revenue. As a whole, year-on-year, 3.2% decrease Q-on-Q, 2.9% increase. As for by segment, this is as shown here.

Next page, please. Now different trends of the different numbers. Nothing to be -- nothing remarkable. So moving on.

About the inventories. Q-on-Q up and down and also the forecast are summarized here. First of all, in-house inventory. In Q3, Q-on-Q, the inventory and DOI, both of them increased as expected. In Q3, DOI was 111.

Q4, Q-on-Q increase is expected. As for the work in progress, the internal production, mainly the die bank will be expanded or increased. At the same time, the strong demand for AI and data centers, we want to increase the die bank, but we are unable to do so, so far.

As for the finished products at the beginning of the year, in order to prepare for the shipment at the beginning of the year, we will be increasing slightly for that.

Next is the channel inventory. Q3, WOI and inventories decreased in real terms. And it was 8.9 weeks and then down to 8.1 weeks. So this is due to the higher sell-through and the channel inventory came down. Q4, overall, the slightly decrease is expected.

For automotive, it will be aligned with the sell-through inventory will be flat. As for the IIoT, we will try to align with the sell-through. But for the AI data center, the sell-through will be brisk. And as a result, the channel inventory will decline. That is what we expect.

Earlier, Shibata-san mentioned that we are trying to expand the channel inventory. But Q-o-Q from Q3 to Q4, sell-through is almost flat and sell-in is likely to increase. So in that sense, the channel inventory decline or decrease will be smaller.

Next page is the front-end utilization. Q3, as I mentioned slightly, the expectation of 50% -- less than 50% and the actual was 50%. So slight increase of the utilization based on the input. This is not due to the fundamental, but we revisited the schedule for the holiday season and bringing the schedule from -- input schedule from Q4 to Q3. So because of that change, we expect a slight decrease in Q4. And we do not have any particular things about the CapEx.

As for Q4 forecast, in the middle of the table, please refer to the dark blue. The gross margin median is JPY 340 billion -- sorry, the revenue median JPY 340 billion; and the gross margin, 57%; and operating margin, 27.5%.

The ForEx expectations, dollar is JPY 150 to the dollar. JPY 175 to the euro. So this is a 3-year Q-on-Q, weaker yen for dollar and JPY 5 weaker in euro. So as for the revenue, median is JPY 340 billion. So this is the 16.2% increase year-on-year and 1.7% increase Q-on-Q.

Now Q-on-Q increase, the ForEx impact is high and the device sales related is small. And the Q-on-Q for the device for mobile and IoT seasonality will lead to the decrease, but we will offset that with a strong DC, data center as well as the signs of the bottoming out of the customer inventory.

As for the gross margin, 57%, it's down 59 basis points Q-on-Q, so slightly decreased. This is due to the mix deterioration. And the 338 basis points negative -- sorry, OP margin, 27.5%, down 338 basis points Q-on-Q. And from -- there was a shift from Q3. And also, there is a concentration towards the end of the term and the ForEx. So these are -- each represent 1/3 of the factors. So Q-on-Q increase of the operating expenses is JPY 11 billion.

As for the 27.5% change of the OP margin in the second half -- in the first half, it was 27.7%, and there's been the improvement of the 100 basis points, and this is due to the progress of the top line and the higher expenses and others.

At the bottom of the right-hand side, we added the ForEx sensitivity for the first time. The volatility of the ForEx is relatively high. And the constant currency, what would look like if the currency is JPY 100 to the dollar. So we wanted to add this so that you can see that. So what I can say here is that as sensitivity against the dollar and the euro, when there is a change of JPY 1, what will be the impact on the revenue and operating profit are shown.

As for the dollars, with the JPY 1 change, JPY 1.7 billion impact on revenue and JPY 0.7 billion impact on operating profit. Based on this ForEx sensitivity, if I assume -- sorry, based upon the constant currency of about JPY 100 to the dollar and JPY 120 to euro, the forecast of the Q4 operating margin is 22.3%. And so that is from 28.5% to 23%. So going on to Page 19 in the appendix, the net income, JPY 106.3 billion Wolfspeed-related evaluation gain is included in the interest expenses, that is JPY 44.5 billion.

The following page on the break down or how to think about this Wolfspeed-related number. On the left-hand side, originally, before going to the Chapter 11. At that timing, the securities that we held, we had the convertible bond and equity and the warranty for the shares. And then there was a Chapter 11 at the end of September. So these assets at the end of the quarter, we needed to evaluate that. So basically, this is equity-based assets. So we have to look at the market, the share price of the Wolfspeed, it would change.

So as you can see in the middle, at the end of Q2, the market cap was the JPY 1.66 billion. And our stake for that is a JPY 0.575 billion. So after the Chapter 11, the market cap was updated. And then based upon the share price, we multiplied what we own, and we calculated the total amount. At the end of September, $28.6 was the share price, and we calculated $2.71 billion. And our stake based on that is the $0.874 billion. So in Japanese yen, that is JPY 130.1 billion. So here, we booked the gain of JPY 44.5 billion. So that is the impact on the finance up to Q3. So what would happen in the future is summarized at the bottom right.

As of now, the CFIUS approval is not something that we have gained. So strictly speaking, the warranty and the share equities, those are something that we would obtain after the approval of CFIUS. So those are considered to be the similar right or the same level.

But as for the CFIUS approval, we expect that this is something that we would have. But because of the shutdown of the U.S. government, the schedule of this approval is being delayed. And ultimately, this after the CFIUS approval and after getting the equity and converting the bond and so forth and about 30% is what we'll own.

And let me turn this. We can separate this from the equity method, Wolfspeed financial impact. And with that, I would like to end my presentation. Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. Now we'd like to move on to the Q&A session. Shibata-san, please turn on your video. So let me first explain how to raise a question. [Operator Instructions] In the interest of time, we would like to limit the number of questions to 2 questions per 1 questioner.

Now first, Takayama-san from Goldman Sachs. Can you begin your question?

[Daiki Takayama, analyst]

So let me ask a question. The first question is about the infrastructure business. Memory interface as well as NVIDIA PMIC. I think those are performing very strongly according to what I see. What are the requirements that are given to you towards next fiscal year because you said that you are not able to keep up with this demand. So what is the request from these companies? Are you receiving massive amount of orders? Or is there a very strong appetite among from these demands?

And based on your position, the memory interface, your market share has come down, but is it coming up again? For NVDIA related, from 1/3, you said to 1/5. Have you been able to improve your position in the market as planned? Can you comment on those points as well?

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Yes. For memory interface and RDM, we keep a bullish forecast. And we -- there's no factors that will force us to change that outlook. So for the market share as well, we also maintain a bullish forecast.

For power, for a specific customer, we cannot comment on a specific customer, but these matters, it's very difficult to forecast on a 1-year basis or for several quarters basis. The requirements from the market are very strong. They are giving us a very strong order amount as a request. But the suppliers that can qualify are also increasing on the other hand. So it should not be -- so reassured. For the time being, more than 1/3, I think we have an expectation that will be -- we will achieve much increases. So if I talk about the next quarter, a very high market share will likely be maintained. Beyond that, I think we cannot talk about that until we get into the next quarter. But the demand itself is quite strong. So it's all up to us whether we can execute. If we are able to execute properly, we shall be able to secure these.

[Daiki Takayama, analyst]

All right. For the memory interface, recently, the DRAM memory, the outlook for that is quite strong recently. What was the expression you used for the January to March quarter and the April to June quarter, what is the likelihood of increase? What are the requirements or requests coming from the customers for this?

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Well, it's very difficult to predict up to that point. We cannot -- we don't have a very definitive number for that far out. But for -- if you look at the trends, recently, as of September end and also towards the end of October backlog, if you look at the backlog trend, as you mentioned, if I -- we are seeing a step increase like a staircase. It's not a crawl. It's a significant sudden increase. That's what we see.

[Daiki Takayama, analyst]

All right. The second question, automotive by region. Can you talk about the performance by region? You mentioned a specific customer. I think that is about China. There might be some decline in the October-December period, but it's coming back again in January and beyond. What are the major -- the outlook for the major markets like Europe and Japan? What is the inquiries from the customers?

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

To give you a comment on the recent performance. As far as Japan is concerned, because of the cycle, Japan is likely to be very strong. But for Europe, I think relative -- Europe I think, is relatively weaker. China. For China overall, compared to one time, we have seen a slight slowdown. Amid that, depending on the customer, there are customers who can expect a further increase or other customers that is going through an adjustment. So mixed performance when depending on the customer for China.

So depending on exposure to the customer, the aggregate numbers may be affected. But overall, the market conditions, I would say, is slightly weaker, I think. That's my impression.

[Daiki Takayama, analyst]

If I may supplement. So the overall tone, of course, the year-end profit margin may come down because of the expenses. But the operating profit bottoming out, can -- do you see signs of that towards the beginning of the year, next year? Or is that the message you want to get across? Or do you still maintain a cautious forecast? And will that stay flattish? Is that your message, Mr. Shibata-san? So what is the message, your main message today?

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Well, that is the point that I find difficulty with. Flattish, slight increase in terms of margin. I think if you can achieve that number, I'd be happy. I do understand the background where your question is coming from. But I, myself, we have to accelerate the investments for the longer term of the business. So if you consider that rather than continuously increasing the margin, we would like to achieve a gradual increase in line with the revenue. So that I think is the best scenario for us.

[Operator]

Next, UBS Securities, Yasui-san.

[Kenji Yasui, analyst]

I would also like to ask a question about the data center. That's my first question. Or GPU customers, in addition, there will be a custom ASIC increase next year. So the 1/3 or higher share and based upon the certain size, non-GPU, is that something that you think you can achieve?

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Well, that's a very good question. How can I say this? It is yes, but it's a custom -- so it has to do with our bandwidth. So doing everything is not possible. And if we try to do that, execution will deteriorate. So each one, choosing each socket is something that we will be doing.

I will not mention the numbers, but in Q4 forecast, custom power number is coming in, and it's going to grow strongly next year. And custom platform for the hyperscalers, we have several different ones. So for example, try to do everything. Getting 50% or 100%, that is not realistic. So choosing some of them rather than 1/3 or going for a higher share. That would be our approach.

[Kenji Yasui, analyst]

So in that sense, PMIC, digital power for different customers, I think that there will be differences?

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Not really, but depending on customers, the architecture that they want is different. And the generation change and the timing of that will be different. But having said that, wafers and back end, the production side would be the same. So it has to do with the capacity allocation and equipment facilities that we need, because of those factors, if you look at end-to-end, it's not just making one product and apply it to everything else.

[Kenji Yasui, analyst]

I see. The second question is about automotive. In Q3, the gross margin is 55%. So I think this is the highest level that you achieved based on the disclosure. So do you think that this will go up further? Q3 was high. Is this sustainable? If you can comment on that.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Yes. I would ask Shinkai-san to respond.

[Shuhei Shinkai, executive]

Yes, Q3 automotive the utilization rate increased and the production expenses coming down. So it has to do with the cost side improvements. And because of those, this is a Q-on-Q increase of 22.8%. So whether it's sustainable or not, it really depends on the utilization rate. So half of that will be changing based upon the utilization, and the remaining half will be the cost reduction, and the continuous progress of the cost reduction. Based on that, we might be able to continue. Thank you.

[Operator]

Moving on to the next questioner. BofA, Hirakawa-san.

[Mikio Hirakawa, analyst]

BofA, Hirakawa here. My first question. The noncore business write-off or the reorganization, what is the progress? By the media, you said that you're planning to sell timing-related business? I'm sure you cannot -- if you can comment to the extent possible, that would be appreciated. But rather than these specific names, I would like to talk about the overall progress, how that is positioned? And what kind of actions are being implemented together with the time horizon? That's my first question.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Shinkai-san, can you talk about that?

[Shuhei Shinkai, executive]

Yes. The product portfolio review. We have an annual cycle and on a continual basis, we are reviewing this with that approach. So in that cycle, we decide whether to focus or which one to go for an alternative approach. At this point of time, it's not that we have decided everything, and this is in the portfolio for restructuring. We are looking at things on a continual basis.

The criteria that we apply for that selection, is whether that is suited for our core embedded semi. How much they can offer a synergistic value inside the company, we look into that, the contribution to the core. And based on that, we decide whether to focus on the business or not to focus on that particular business.

[Mikio Hirakawa, analyst]

Well, a follow-up question on that point. So the synergistic value, what kind of asset? So if you take the total asset of your company as 100, which -- what percentage of such -- do you have such kind of assets that can be synergistic to your core?

[Shuhei Shinkai, executive]

Well, it's very difficult to give a quantitative number as to this much is the synergistic asset. But we would like to conduct a continuous update and review the product line on a continuous basis. And because these changes -- these things changes on a relative basis based on these considerations.

[Mikio Hirakawa, analyst]

All right. My second question. Relating to Altium Renesas 365. You said that you are working to expand the user base of Renesas 365. What kind of actions are you implementing in order to expand the user base? And if you can give us some quantitative indication as to the pace of increase of user base. And also, you said that you are taking a Windows-like approach. You're not going to be hasty. But when you launch this system in the end of the year, what are the features to be made available upon the launch? If you can comment on that, that would be appreciated.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

User base expansion has just started. It's just earlier. So we cannot comment on the pace of progress. By having this on the cloud, the pricing structure has changed significantly weak. So compared to before, for small users, I think it's easier to use. So we are going to provide an option that will make it easier for use for the smaller scale users. That's one thing.

Another thing is that by region, we will apply more resources such as China and India. For those markets, we'll become more full scale, full scale in addressing these markets. So those are the 2 major pillars that we are working on in order to expand the user base of Renesas 365.

And for Renesas 365, for one thing, at the Embedded World, we have demonstrated something that will serve as a benchmark for you. But beyond that, I think this is more effective and maybe not be a clear cut at site. That is about the cloud-embedded nature.

Previously, we had provided many different tools. We thought that we had been providing good tools, but that can be downloaded from the website, but the version management was so complex. So we had taken that kind of classic approach. But this time around, everything will be cloud enabled from this time onwards.

So when that happens, I'm sure you're using this, but Office -- if you use Microsoft Office 365, you don't have to care about the version difference of the software and all the bug fix will be done automatically. So in that way, in that kind of approach, all the latest versions are provided seamlessly through the cloud. That is the state that we would like to realize in this first phase of this product.

So the functionality is not going to increase significantly, drastically. Rather, the ease of use compared to before will improve significantly. That is the first focus. And then from there, our philosophy is that we would like to work together with lead partner customers. The number of such customers will be limited. So together with them, we would like to discuss what are the futures that will -- that needs to be improved, that could be most effective for the customers. So we will work on that and then decide on the priority of our development.

As you may be aware, in the cloud environment, the update cycle will change significantly compared to conventional products. So agile will be the key here. So we will constantly upgrade and update the product. So when you notice, the customers will notice that the ease of use has changed dramatically. So that is the initiative that we are contemplating.

[Operator]

Next, Daiwa Securities, Okawa-san.

[Junji Okawa, analyst]

Okawa from Daiwa. In the IIoT, the gross margin, the -- I think that the data center is brisk with the high profitability, but this is not growing as much as expected. So Q4, you mentioned that the deterioration of the product mix. Could you elaborate on that? IIoT and automotive, maybe it's for both. So if you can make some additional comments.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Yes, Shinkai-san, please.

[Shuhei Shinkai, executive]

Well, first of all Q3, IIoT, there are differences. So gross margin relatively high, is for the data center, the memory interface grew. So for example, the same data center segment would have lower profitability. So we are trying to drive that mix.

So right now, what is growing? And among them, the higher -- they're not always higher than the average gross margin. So there are some differences of the gross margin level. And so IIoT margin changes reflect those differences. So for example, high-density power compared with the average, gross margin is not so high. So if it grows, the overall margin will be pushed down. So margin, gross margin growth is muted, so to speak. It appears to be muted.

So in Q4, the similar reason, Q3 was good. So there is a reaction from that. And as a whole, the low-margin products will grow. And as a result, the margin would come down.

[Junji Okawa, analyst]

Second question is about the industrial prospect. Competitors, of course, they handle the different products, but the industrial, I think there are some conservative or prudent prospect by other companies. So for you, what is your prospect? And by different regions, do you see the differences of the recovery? So about the industrial?

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Yes. Well, maybe if I can categorize them into 3 groups. The first is traditional factory automation and energy management is another. And the third is the smart appliance or white goods. So if I categorize them into 3 energy management is strong, it appears.

So by region or rather than differences by region, there are customers who are strong in energy management. And of course, there are regional differences. But regardless of the geography, energy management is strong.

As for white goods, it is also quite good, quite strong. No differences of the region. Well, China is big in terms of volume. But rather than the regional differences, hitting the bottom and a recovery cycle has already started.

As for the hardcore factory automation, there is a mixed view. The Japanese customers are not so strong. If you look at the world, they don't really look very strong. But in the past, there was a very difficult situation, but that is over. So gradual recovery is something that we expect.

So by region, as I said, and in the short term, Japan Europe towards Q4, how can I say this, because of the comparison to Q3, the growth will be driven, but as an overall trend, it is not so strong.

[Operator]

Now moving on to the next question. Citigroup Securities, Fujiwara-san.

[藤原 毅郎, analyst]

This is Fujiwara from Citigroup. I also have two questions. One, well, I'm just -- this just happened recently. So this is about the Nexperia supply issue. I just want you to remind us once again. I'm sure that you are now sorting things out at the customer side, but what is the likely impact on the fourth quarter performance according to your assumption? Or what are the potential outcome that is indicated by the customer? If you can share that with us to the extent possible.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Shinkai-san, can you answer that question?

[Shuhei Shinkai, executive]

Yes. At this point of time, the current outlook does not factor in this impact. As far as the shipment is concerned, there won't be a significant impact according to our view because of the backlog -- in relation to the backlog. As far as the sell-through is concerned, we are anticipating a slight impact from this. We cannot rule out that possibility.

Sell-through, we are going to ship things based on the sell-through. But if there's any downside to the sell-through, then the inventory may climb up. So that's a possibility that we have to foresee. But we don't have the details available. So that's the reason why we have not factored this in -- in the forecast.

So the -- it's not -- unless there's a major adjustment, the October-December period will be landing as planned. And if there's any impact, you're going to adjust with the first quarter in the next year.

Yes, if there's an impact in December, then we'll have to adjust and there may be a handover effect on the January to March quarter.

[藤原 毅郎, analyst]

Okay. The second question regarding the procurement attitude on the part of customers, if you can comment on that. Well, this year, you received many short-term orders, I believe. But when you look at the overall industry, the inventory level is quite slim. So customers are not increasing their inventory level according to what I see. So have you seen any changes in the customers' procurement attitude, if there's any indication that you can share with us towards 2026?

What is the direction of customers purchasing or procurement attitude? If you can share with us, that would be appreciated.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Well, a very good question. Well, at this point of time. As a general trend, the inventory buildup trend were increasing lead time, that's what we do not see at the moment. But if you think about the possibility, data center or AI-related components, some components relating to AI because they use a significant amount of certain components, like because the device die is so large, and therefore, that's the area where we have a shortage in terms of components and then our capacity. So then we cannot rule out the possibility of everybody trying to go secure that. So that may result in a longer lead time. If that is the case, then the inventory buildup trend and initially, I would say, may be difficult for us to distinguish whether that is a buildup of inventory. So we have to make sure that we have a close communication with customers and address what is happening there. So at this point of time, I would say we are not seeing any conspicuous changes.

For the short term, there might be some customers narrowing down the inventory level too much and therefore, increasing, but we don't see a general trend across the board yet.

[Operator]

We are getting close to the end. So we'd like to end the Q&A. Lastly, I'd like to ask Shibata-san to say the closing remarks.

[Hidetoshi Shibata, executive]

Yes. So we continue to see that strong AI and as a derivative of that, energy-related is strong, and also IoT, part of it, we are gaining market shares. And so it's strong. So those are the major parts and especially the execution, we want to make sure that we don't make any mistakes. We want to work on the internal initiatives.

And as for automotive, there are some uncertainties. So we'd like to be careful, but we want to make sure that we capture the upside. So that is the attitude that we have had, and we would like to continue that. So I hope that you will continue to support us, and thank you for joining us today.

[Operator]

So with that, I'd like to end the Q3 earnings call of Renesas Electronics. Thank you very much for your participation today.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]